/tg/Station 13

The points system has been done to death, but it is a core motivator for a couple of key jobs, im partially interested in seeing how it might translate over to the loose RP but mostly validhunting pragmatism of security if we can co-erce people into being better & more consistent officers with rewards.

How it works

There is a machine in central brig (not unlike the telegulag or the abductor pod *which is direct inspiration*) which processes criminals and automatically labels them within offence guidelines, before being lead away by the warden to face their punishment.

> Security drags in somebody for offence, pushes them onto a chair seated within the machine & locks the doors to the pod to work the console

> Tap in the offence classification (which gets forwarded to the warden & HOS desk) and additional data, when approved by the warden or HOS the officer earns a 'ROBUST' point. For reference there is also a recommended time detailed next to every offence. The warden & HOS's input is needed to make sure there's no cheating going on and abusing the machine would be seen as a bwoinkable abuse of power when they clearly have a job to do.

> So now without typing it in dangerously in the halls while dragging them you have a criminal caught & tagged with a criminal history which automatically gets updated to security records.

> Wardens & HOS's get a sub-income from every successfully registered offence so they will want to promote a quota of arrests to be made by officers under their control. Mostly funding cigars, vodka & armory items (replacement HOS coats?)

---

I have no specific thoughts on what items should be available for these points, but i would think that generally resuppliments of common security & some exceptional meme objects plus some other smaller pieces like bulletproof armor & additional tasers should be definitely rewarded in exchange for ROBUST points via each individual security officer's quota of valid arrests. Especially since resources can become depleted over time.

> Making both this and the gulag machine able to buckle would also be exceptional for shitters who like to wriggle out as soon as they are within the machine and have to be stunned just to keep them still (also so the warden can extract them easily without them bursting out like a bat out of hell)

>grab random person, preferably the RD
>brig him 200000 times
>???
>profit

Well then you have a issue with escalation which if the warden & HOS are complicit with i can only really forsee the captain or a admin stepping into resolve, which is obviously much easier for a abductor to do in handling this system locally on their ufo because they are abstract from the station while security LIVES on the station and its drama. And in the same way should judiciary escalation escalate to perma or captial offences for multiple crimes?

These point systems are an incredibly clumsy bandage to a much greater problem. They're not at all the way to approach job depth.

captain sawrge wrote:These point systems are an incredibly clumsy bandage to a much greater problem. They're not at all the way to approach job depth.

If you look past its clumsyness, can you see what im trying to do? My endgoal is to instill some effective & consistent police work in which officers are content in identifying and following through a crime without always feeling like they are dealing with a edge case which might need 1 more or less minute and they are never quite sure.

> Ok so its theft, but they stole a critical item (*whips open space law, which would be complimentary to working the machine*) the officer can then look at the recommended advice there.

Its no less basic than giving a goldfish a treat for ringing a bell in which then it repeats the behaviour if it wants to be fed until it knows to do it every time, im really actually just screwing with the officers mentality in concept. If you can keep the points system and think of a more airtight way of processing arrests (by itself the machine is funtional without the points) then feel more than welcome to contribute and strengthen the suggestion.

> In mining and suggested for engineering, points give us the inclination to do mundane tasks like repetitively digging rocks. If they are looking for griefers to arrest for their next item they won't be actively hunting for antagonists. (if we can't stop validhunting we might as well shift the focus of it to be more domestic & work in extended rounds)

Even robustin's suggestion is better than this, aren't you just full of good ideas? Stop encouraging shitcurity and arresting for literally anything, space law is a suggestion, this is a garbage idea, atleast robustin's is thought out.
also, bwoinking people for abusing a points system? I thought the goal here was to have admins bwoink security less for minor shit like an extra minute or three?

BeeSting12 wrote:>grab random person, preferably the RD
>brig him 200000 times
>???
>profit

Make it so that if you brig Fwoosh while he's playing RD it maxes out your points

Jacough wrote:

BeeSting12 wrote:>grab random person, preferably the RD
>brig him 200000 times
>???
>profit

Make it so that if you brig Fwoosh while he's playing RD it maxes out your points

perfect

FantasticFwoosh wrote:Well then you have a issue with escalation which if the warden & HOS are complicit with i can only really forsee the captain or a admin stepping into resolve, which is obviously much easier for a abductor to do in handling this system locally on their ufo because they are abstract from the station while security LIVES on the station and its drama. And in the same way should judiciary escalation escalate to perma or captial offences for multiple crimes?

as a HoS player I would definitely encourage this depending on what the points get us. and isnt the point of this to not have admins step in?

kevinz000 wrote:Even robustin's suggestion is better than this, aren't you just full of good ideas? Stop encouraging shitcurity and arresting for literally anything, space law is a suggestion, this is a garbage idea, atleast robustin's is thought out.
also, bwoinking people for abusing a points system? I thought the goal here was to have admins bwoink security less for minor shit like an extra minute or three?

> If you have a better idea spit it out. I see the flaw with how this is abusable (we might just have to settle on it being abusable with ID's) but there's firstly a crisis with equipment which means we have to import from cargo (long term i want sec objects to be contraband only) and two, most "offences" are minor like griefing, and dragging them to the brig negates the window of appropriate punishment in which to incarcerate them, so processing them on the spot would be better.

> Rather than let them go with a verbal warning, the officer can tag shitters in the machine earn a point for it, update the criminal database and then get back to work after releasing the shitter. Adding a minute sentence per stacking offence leading to captial eventually would be the player decision.

> Officers right now don't arrest for jack or exclusively look for antagonists in order to loot whatever the antag has got on them (stupid officers walking around the station with eswords) they don't actually solve 'crimes' at all. The detective is basically homocide while the officers sweep up the trash. If you see someone breaking windows its actively against your job as security to punish it because you couldn't do anything between the time you drag them to brig for a 30 second (out of a min & a half) sentence before letting them out.

> Update your definition of shitcurity - Shitcurity is in my book a bunch of nobodies with nothing to do suicidally roaming halls and abusing assistants because they can't exercise their power against griefers, some people feel its much better to just harmbaton someone as punishment than drag them in cuffs. My machine even with the points suggestion removed is very much safer than the existing systems we have for labelling criminals, the points are put in there as to promote play.

BeeSting12 wrote: as a HoS player I would definitely encourage this depending on what the points get us. and isnt the point of this to not have admins step in?

I never actually said a claim like that, yes HOS's should be motivated to have a sec force that actually arrests people for crimes, but i don't know why you think im bothered in covering admin's asses, because they ought to turf out shitsec anyways but id like to keep this system as hopefully simple as possible.

Better idea is to shed this thread.

captain sawrge wrote:These point systems are an incredibly clumsy bandage to a much greater problem. They're not at all the way to approach job depth.

glad someone else agrees

I play to see/create interesting situations IC, points systems (imo) will lead to even further powergaming, because you want to get the most points so it's more efficient to do X

points systems just kill creativity, imo, and that's obviously not true 100% of the time, but if someone does something creative that ends up being good for points it will no longer be creative as everyone milks it to death

To me point systems encourage one type of behavior and that's the one that gets you the most rewards. It's true for Mining - just mine nothing but plasma - and with Robustin's Engineering PR I think that it will shape up to be similar, with people making the most efficient engine possible instead of making anything creative. That said, it's a very simple way to add the illusion of depth to a job, and it's better than what we have now.

As well as actively encourage people to categorise & punish crimes which are minor.

> Prior offences will be used against you in future as punishment.

fuck off with point systems

danno wrote:fuck off with point systems

In my opinion point systems are fine for things like mining where collecting resources is pretty straight forward. Departments need materials, go get them materials and you get nice rewards. Ez-pz. Space law is merely a suggestion and there's a lot of stuff in there that varies on a case by case basis or just doesn't fucking matter (see indecent exposure and drug possession because who gives a fuck if Jimmy wants to shoot meth and then run up and down the halls buck ass naked as long as he isn't breaking or stealing anything?)

Abstracting the machine from the points

> Machine works with space law to profile crimes and update to the database, actively encourages people to be arrested for minor crimes, gives guidance to new players on what falls between the guidelines of importance of what is punishable and saves time fiddling with sechuds doing paperwork while the criminal is secure.

> The points system goes directly into funding more gear which dwindles with security use and moves it away from cargo to disarm the Cargonia nationalists in a move supported by the CUCK (Centcomm Undercover Covert Kommission) and get sec items unorderable by cargo

1. if we're going to do points systems stop making the abbreviations for them tired and unfunny jokes

2. I still don't see how you can't easily abuse this - you'd need someone to manually confirm that sec isn't just feeding the system false info or something, unless you want to get hilariously complex with your code

Qbopper wrote:I still don't see how you can't easily abuse this - you'd need someone to manually confirm that sec isn't just feeding the system false info or something, unless you want to get hilariously complex with your code

Or just using loopholes to abuse it in general.

"Halt medical doctor! Why are you trespassing in maint?"
"A traitor dragged me in here, I just barely es-"
"CRIMINAL INFRACTION, TRESPASSING! WHY ARE YOU NAKED?"
"The traitor stripped me!"
"CRIMINAL INFRACTION, INDECENT EXPOSURE! WHY ARE YOU HOLDING THAT BLOODY KNIFE?"
"I grabbed it to fight off t-"
"CRIMINAL INFRACTION, POSSESSION OF A DEADLY WEAPON YOU'RE COMING WITH ME! Man I am getting so many points off this asshole!"

The shed BEKONS.

danno wrote:fuck off with point systems

kevinz000 wrote:The shed BEKONS.

kev no fwoosh likes the shed just delete/lock it so it fades into limbo hell

Kor just dropped a points system to give out silly rewards to medbay for healing inside the premises that is abusable and is heralded a savior of game depth. Time to do a 180% and reboot this thread.

> Discuss.

Jacough wrote:

Qbopper wrote:I still don't see how you can't easily abuse this - you'd need someone to manually confirm that sec isn't just feeding the system false info or something, unless you want to get hilariously complex with your code

Or just using loopholes to abuse it in general.

"Halt medical doctor! Why are you trespassing in maint?"
"A traitor dragged me in here, I just barely es-"
"CRIMINAL INFRACTION, TRESPASSING! WHY ARE YOU NAKED?"
"The traitor stripped me!"
"CRIMINAL INFRACTION, INDECENT EXPOSURE! WHY ARE YOU HOLDING THAT BLOODY KNIFE?"
"I grabbed it to fight off t-"
"CRIMINAL INFRACTION, POSSESSION OF A DEADLY WEAPON YOU'RE COMING WITH ME! Man I am getting so many points off this asshole!"

But that's how tackling crime works.

The medical pr is a literal joke.

Not every department needs a point system! There are a million other ways for depth.