/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I did a quick check in game, here's a comparison between the three main light sources. PDA, Flashlight and Flare.

PDA Light (same light level irrespective if you hold it in your hand or its on your ID slot) Flashlight (Note: Sec Light is slightly better) Flare Amusingly a penlight offers more light than the PDA light.

------------------

I think two changes are warrented.

Firstly, the PDA light should offer the samelight levels that the penlight offers.

Secondly, more flashlight spawns should be made available within departments.

It's easier to see with the blindness disability than with a PDA light. It strains my eyes to try and see the screen.

Iatots wrote:On box, medbay and the general recreational areas have no readily accessible lights outside maintenance. Sci and sec have a whopping 1 O2 closet each.
On meta, departments have around 1 roll at a lightsource, with some like sec having a desk lamp.

The dumb guy here is you, because you don't seem able to grasp that PDAs suddenly not providing a decent light source seriously nerfs the general crew as some people clearly are having difficulty orientating themselves on little to no light.

> Security
> Lacking light sources

Dude, they have lockers and vendors full of seclites, practically standard security equipment which also happens to be the best type of flashlights available on the station. That's like saying security has a shortage of flashes. Science can also easily make an autolathe and mass produce flashlights, or even NVGs if they and miners actually did their jobs. You can also use PDA light just fine enough to locate and acquire an actual light source in the nearest locker.

Stop using your own incompetence as an argument.

Pda lights had it coming get good

glowshrooms need to have their green colour lowered, some things could do with less saturated colours for lighting

i've had ahelps about performance issues

i wish this works out though, it's pretty atmospheric at times

oh my god that new PDA light range is atrocious

it was in a good place before - it was enough to not be totally blind and navigate, but an actual light source was still a million times better

I would be more of a fan of this if it was purely a visual change and didn't rebalance lighting entirely and randomly

danno wrote:I would be more of a fan of this if it was purely a visual change and didn't rebalance lighting entirely and randomly

EDIT: To be fair it was likely unintentional and will be fixed, but.. yeah

I didn't truly understand the pda light until it was too late, at least buff it to see the tile the SPACEMAN IS ON.

The PDA light isn't anywhere near that bad on /vg/. This is something TGcoders did

lntigracy wrote:The PDA light isn't anywhere near that bad on /vg/. This is something TGcoders did

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... d64ff2cf73

So the offending line in the code is light_power = 0.35

https://github.com/d3athrow/vgstation13 ... PDA/PDA.dm

Which /vg/ lacks as far as I can tell

Clearly PBJ was just fucking with us

I told you cucks that you literally can't see even with the PDA light, I can barely even see my dude's face and they're a goddamn albino with yellow hair. Buff this shit.

This just shows that you guys suck at testing.

Under old lighting I never had a reason to use anything but my PDA light since it already lit up most rooms entirely. That's completely retarded for the light equivalent of a cell phone screen.

>Lit up most rooms entirely

So? Better that than them being utterly fucking useless. Plus, I never even used the pdalight except when I needed to because you couldn't quickly cut them off to go into STEALTH MODE in dark areas.

cedarbridge wrote:Under old lighting I never had a reason to use anything but my PDA light since it already lit up most rooms entirely. That's completely retarded for the light equivalent of a cell phone screen.

PDAs have actual lightbulbs in them.

ShadowDimentio wrote:>Lit up most rooms entirely

So? Better that than them being utterly fucking useless. Plus, I never even used the pdalight except when I needed to because you couldn't quickly cut them off to go into STEALTH MODE in dark areas.

>darkness as a mechanic and antag tool/hazard should be entirely removed by a roundstart item that literally everyone has
No

I agree that darkness should be an hazard, but I would like to see at the very least the tiles around me with my PDA light.

TrustyGun wrote:I agree that darkness should be an hazard, but I would like to see at the very least the tiles around me with my PDA light.

Look at Steelpoint's post above. You can definitely see your tile and the tiles immediately around it.

In a well lit room I had to turn my brightness on my phone all the way up and zoom in to properly view it.

Now imagine if I was on a computer..

cedarbridge wrote:

TrustyGun wrote:I agree that darkness should be an hazard, but I would like to see at the very least the tiles around me with my PDA light.

Look at Steelpoint's post above. You can definitely see your tile and the tiles immediately around it.

No you can't you idiot, you can literally barely see your own face. How goddamn bright do you have your screen!?

ShadowDimentio wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

TrustyGun wrote:I agree that darkness should be an hazard, but I would like to see at the very least the tiles around me with my PDA light.

Look at Steelpoint's post above. You can definitely see your tile and the tiles immediately around it.

No you can't you idiot, you can literally barely see your own face. How goddamn bright do you have your screen!?

There's nothing special about this laptop's settings. I'm glad you can tell me what I'm seeing though. I mean, from my view I can clearly see the atmos ports on the tiles directly adjacent to Steelpoint's mob but the vision does not extend to the wall. I mean, if you run around with your gamma turned all the way down I could see that being both an issue and your own lookout.

Again, I don't think PDAs should ever return to what they once were. Nobody ever used flashlights before unless 1) they got PDA bombed and couldn't find a replacement 2) it was really am EMP flashlight.

Speak for yourself baka boy, I never used the PDA light instead of flashlights.

I used flashlights and helmet lights all the time before, what are you talking about

It takes about 30 seconds to adjust the lighting value of a light, what the fuck are you all making 300 posts about it for

People can't be assed. I changed the formula for alcohol poisoning after three months of constant complaining by people who couldn't be bothered to change one number.

not a fan of the new darkness tiles, they're a nerf compared to old darkness in which you could hide in semi-dark tiles and easily get by unnoticed, whilst now you have to be in 100% absolute darkness for any chance to hide. Also it just doesn't look very good to me. the darkness also feels very oppressive even when in full lit areas but im not sure if thats a good or bad thing.
colored lights need to be applied in moderation, its becoming apparent that it's getting out of control looking at the github.
things that didnt emit light before shouldn't suddenly start emitting light just so they can have colorful lighting.

oranges wrote:It takes about 30 seconds to adjust the lighting value of a light, what the fuck are you all making 300 posts about it for

It's a Bikeshed thread but instead of building the bikeshed you're tweaking the value of the light in the bikeshed.

Consider the following:

Become proficient
Stop being bad
Desist being inexperienced
Gain ability
Acquire skill
Don't be not good

If people using PDA lights to see is so triggering just give them a chance to turn off now and then. Then it would be unreliable and inferior to dedicated lightsources.
The solution is always RNG.

Also, only 90s kids remember old darkness when things were just dark and not pitch black.

It's a fucking PDA light, if you try to navigate around a dark room with your cell phone it's going to be about the same amount of light

Yeah but smart people use the flashlight function on their phone

bandit wrote:It's a fucking PDA light, if you try to navigate around a dark room with your cell phone it's going to be about the same amount of light

oh no.....

My cell phone light puts out enough light that I can see an entire room pretty well. its 80 to 100 lumens, the avg nightlight you find in the bath room (the kind with that small bulb on some receptacle and some kids related face plate covering the front of the bulb is 45 lumens.

The light output of the pda in their current form is like, 5lumens, less then the screen output of an iphone (10 lumens).

cedarbridge wrote:Nobody ever used flashlights before unless 1) they got PDA bombed and couldn't find a replacement 2) it was really am EMP flashlight.

All the more reason to nerf PDA lights?

Anonmare wrote:Consider the following:

Become proficient
Stop being bad
Desist being inexperienced
Gain ability
Acquire skill
Don't be not good

This tbh

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... PDA.dm#L31
change this to f_lum = 2 or f_lum = 1 so the light isn't insanely bright

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... PDA.dm#L60
remove this

suddenly you can use the PDA light enough to where you can actually see

alternatively if you want to keep it really shitty but slightly better, change the second one to 0.5 and change nothing else

The dynamic lighting is really pretty.

Please stop arguing about realism it has little impact on our design thank you.

Iatots wrote:

Sligneris wrote:ITT: People don't realize they can just grab a flashlight; instead they expect PDA light to solve all their problems.

You can just not get poisoned.
You can just dodge the bullets.
You can just not die.

You could just have an argument

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Iatots wrote:

Sligneris wrote:ITT: People don't realize they can just grab a flashlight; instead they expect PDA light to solve all their problems.

You can just not get poisoned.
You can just dodge the bullets.
You can just not die.

You could just have an argument

You could read the rest of that conversation instead of making low effort comments.

When did the normal response to "feature X rework screws its balance" become "powergame harder"?
Was it HG that trained you to eat shit and ask for seconds?

We should just make all crewmembers immune to poison, invulnerable to bullets and immortal. That way, no one will ever need to powergame in order to survive.

I believe that intensity "light_power" and range "light_range" can be changed separately. Perhaps we could increase the intensity of the lights while limiting the range.

Sligneris wrote:We should just make all crewmembers immune to poison, invulnerable to bullets and immortal. That way, no one will ever need to powergame in order to survive.

What a great rebuttal.
It seems in your efforts to increase your imaginary post count you have paid no attention to a certain motif in this thread, which is that the change to the light a PDA emits is not a deliberate attempt at a rebalance, unless the porter tried to sneak it in unannounced. You can make any number of arguments for/against an eventual rebalance, but when an object the whole crew carries is UNWILLINGLY broken, your go-to response can't be "just use other object X".

Gun Hog wrote:I believe that intensity "light_power" and range "light_range" can be changed separately. Perhaps we could increase the intensity of the lights while limiting the range.

My post explains how to fix things ffs

PDA is meant to be just enough to see anything but darkness in your nearest surroundings, but it should not be a match for a flashlight.

lntigracy wrote:

Gun Hog wrote:I believe that intensity "light_power" and range "light_range" can be changed separately. Perhaps we could increase the intensity of the lights while limiting the range.

My post explains how to fix things ffs

Sorry, I missed it. Things started melding together during my skim and I dropped off.

Iatots wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Iatots wrote:

Sligneris wrote:ITT: People don't realize they can just grab a flashlight; instead they expect PDA light to solve all their problems.

You can just not get poisoned.
You can just dodge the bullets.
You can just not die.

You could just have an argument

You could read the rest of that conversation instead of making low effort comments.

When did the normal response to "feature X rework screws its balance" become "powergame harder"?
Was it HG that trained you to eat shit and ask for seconds?

Not an argument

This lighting is eye strain bad, especially as it doesn't work properly to start with, barely being able to see is annoying, barely being able to see, and then having to pause, turn off your light sources one at a time, and then back on because the next chunk of darkness just failed to register a flashlight as being on is fucking painful.

Other than that really cool, pretty and atmospheric, I like how the consoles glow the different colours and think this an overall good change. Just needs some tweaking.

Iatots wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Iatots wrote:

Sligneris wrote:ITT: People don't realize they can just grab a flashlight; instead they expect PDA light to solve all their problems.

You can just not get poisoned.
You can just dodge the bullets.
You can just not die.

You could just have an argument

You could read the rest of that conversation instead of making low effort comments.

When did the normal response to "feature X rework screws its balance" become "powergame harder"?
Was it HG that trained you to eat shit and ask for seconds?

We're reaching that stage where "pick up a flashlight to see in the dark" is "powergaming"

Reece wrote:and then having to pause, turn off your light sources one at a time, and then back on because the next chunk of darkness just failed to register a flashlight as being on is fucking painful.

Not exclusive to the new system at all. This has been a combination of lag and whatever else for a while now.

Some of the colored lights could use some desaturation, and the wall buttons thing, but yeah this shit is 9/10 "it's okay" -IGN

Saegrimr wrote:

Reece wrote:and then having to pause, turn off your light sources one at a time, and then back on because the next chunk of darkness just failed to register a flashlight as being on is fucking painful.

Not exclusive to the new system at all. This has been a combination of lag and whatever else for a while now.

Some of the colored lights could use some desaturation, and the wall buttons thing, but yeah this shit is 9/10 "it's okay" -IGN

There's a PR to tone down the BRIGHT GREEN BLOOM you get from massed glowshrooms so that's good at least. I almost mass deleted them they're so much brighter than wall lights.

Told coderbus goonlighting is terrible and asked about the pros vs the cons and was told "because all the other servers have it"

Oranges also told me that he hopes my computer explodes and I die while some other shitposters ganged up on it.
I hope tgstation13 continues being successful