/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Just use NT's strategy. Drones may only exist if a Scientist or Roboticist builds them, with the exception of any map-spawned ones. They would have the same state as pAIs. There are a set number spawned with the map, and if anyone feels more should exist, they can request more from Science.

On a more personal opinion note, I would have preferred that the Positronic Brains update (still in PR stage on NT) had been implemented first, and that the drones would simply accept any MMI.

Gun Hog wrote:Just use NT's strategy. Drones may only exist if a Scientist or Roboticist builds them, with the exception of any map-spawned ones. They would have the same state as pAIs. There are a set number spawned with the map, and if anyone feels more should exist, they can request more from Science.

Pretty much this. The "oh but it's tied to competence" argument is stupid, because ghosts shouldn't have free pass back into the round anyway.

Kelenius wrote:And yeah, I think they should be always valid. It will encourage them to not approach people at all, which is good.

That's kinda lousy though. Here's a way back into the game where you get to run around and be useful and fix shit but if anyone sees you they can kill you FNR. Sounds pretty shitty really.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

Gun Hog wrote:Just use NT's strategy. Drones may only exist if a Scientist or Roboticist builds them, with the exception of any map-spawned ones. They would have the same state as pAIs. There are a set number spawned with the map, and if anyone feels more should exist, they can request more from Science.

Pretty much this. The "oh but it's tied to competence" argument is stupid, because ghosts shouldn't have free pass back into the round anyway.

Lets compare all the other things required to manually return players to the game

Cloning - If you've ever been in deadchat for more than 10 minutes you already know how this works out.
Golems - 20+ minute RNGfest and that assumes that the scientists are 1) ~competent~ 2) Interested 3) Not dead and 4) Not just antags that stop at golds and run
pAIs - Limited at roundstart and others require some R&D and then science to actually produce them on demand

So I have to wonder, where are these mystical return-to-play effects that don't require other players knowing how to do their jobs?

cedarbridge wrote:

Kelenius wrote:And yeah, I think they should be always valid. It will encourage them to not approach people at all, which is good.

That's kinda lousy though. Here's a way back into the game where you get to run around and be useful and fix shit but if anyone sees you they can kill you FNR. Sounds pretty shitty really.

That's a good thing. The person got killed. If they take this free pass back into the round, it should have strings attached - like excessive vulnerability. I think having them be skittish for fear of valids is a good thing, like the Keepers in Mass Effect staying out of sight.

cedarbridge wrote:So I have to wonder, where are these mystical return-to-play effects that don't require other players knowing how to do their jobs?

He never said those existed, he said they shouldn't exist.

Also, they already do exist on bay, but there's a different gameplay style over there so it doesn't mess wth the rounds too much.

To sum it up, ghosts shouldn't get a free* pass back into a round because

Every ghost in existence will become a drone and there will be no golems, ninjas, aliums, appertices and everything else that needs ghosts.

Every drone will be made from people who died, and they will be metaing it heavily by informing everyone of who killed them, while being unable to talk and it will never be reported to or noticed by admins.

*it's not actually free

It works p well on /vg/ and artyom in that current implementation but arty's version has a few kinks to work out which RR is in the process of fixing. It'll be easier for /tg/ coders to port it or design their own once RR finishes it up.

I'd say they should have the ability to go through "Plastic Flaps" this would allow them to move in and out of spaces without leaving airlocks open etc. Obviously they have vent crawl already but this would be useful.

Also it be nice if the drones could have a small 3x3 room with only plastic flap entrances somewhere on the map (map issue I suppose). This could be use to recharge in and maybe store materials?

peoplearestrange wrote: Also it be nice if the drones could have a small 3x3 room with only plastic flap entrances somewhere on the map (map issue I suppose). This could be use to recharge in and maybe store materials?

I swear I heard /vg/ talk about something similair to this called a Nest room.
I liked the idea.

peoplearestrange wrote:I'd say they should have the ability to go through "Plastic Flaps" this would allow them to move in and out of spaces without leaving airlocks open etc. Obviously they have vent crawl already but this would be useful.

Also it be nice if the drones could have a small 3x3 room with only plastic flap entrances somewhere on the map (map issue I suppose). This could be use to recharge in and maybe store materials?

I'm not really keeping up on this thread, but at least on Artyom, drones don't recharge because there's nothing they do/use that would require power or replacement.

They will take the old gravgen room, there will be their recharge station.

Flaps is a good idea.

Kelenius wrote:They will take the old gravgen room, there will be their recharge station.

Flaps is a good idea.

I could forsee myself moving into ghetto surgery or something as a drone and nesting there. Though old-grav is also a good spot.

Kelenius wrote:They will take the old gravgen room, there will be their recharge station.

Flaps is a good idea.

You should probably connect it to the maint then, not engineering, since they're tehcnically not part of department.

Also RIP best cult base.

Drones need a seperate silicon channel to talk on. I like them being able to talk with AI and borgs since they're ultra-cute little bastards, but uh. Unfortunate things can happen like when I had to remind the Drones I could hear binary after they told each other about some assistant tator griefing them with C4, by name. Thus I knew about a traitor by name from them, thus interference. On accident. Easy not to act on that info, though; anybody who wastes their TCs griefing drones of all things is probably no threat to anybody but themselves.

Hibbles wrote:Drones need a seperate silicon channel to talk on. I like them being able to talk with AI and borgs since they're ultra-cute little bastards, but uh. Unfortunate things can happen like when I had to remind the Drones I could hear binary after they told each other about some assistant tator griefing them with C4, by name. Thus I knew about a traitor by name from them, thus interference. On accident. Easy not to act on that info, though; anybody who wastes their TCs griefing drones of all things is probably no threat to anybody but themselves.

MoMMIs get around this by being able to hear Binary but only being able to speak in a channel called Damage Control. Again, unintentionally passing information may happen since the AI can hear Damage Control but its really up to everyone if its really that big of a threat to server balance. Drones should have a reasonable means of communicating "X c4'd me" to other drones. It just makes sense.

The issue with My+Pete's NT Drones is that say() code is still a pile of shit, so Pete made them use binary because it was the best thing code wise.
I'll look into getting them their own channel, probably using MoMMI's as reference.

I'd appreciate if discussion of NT's drones would be moved to NT subforum.

Giving them their own channel to talk is, like... 10 lines. Anyway, they can talk only in their private drone channel, but can hear binary and whatever they configure their radio to.

For what purpose would they need to hear binary other than screw with rogue AI?

Give them "show alerts" if you really want them to be informed like that, which they shouldn't anyway.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:For what purpose would they need to hear binary other than screw with rogue AI?

Give them "show alerts" if you really want them to be informed like that, which they shouldn't anyway.

Drones who 'screw with rogue AI' can a) get banned for breaking their laws and b) get blown by, surprise-surprise, rogue AI.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:For what purpose would they need to hear binary other than screw with rogue AI?

Give them "show alerts" if you really want them to be informed like that, which they shouldn't anyway.

RR just literally said that he made them use binary channel because saycode is a piece of shit.

Try reading before you post, dumbass.

Miauw wrote:just

Three days ago.

Before that there was a notion that it'd be good for them to be on binary. I disagree.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

Miauw wrote:just

Three days ago.

literally only three posts away from your own post

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:For what purpose would they need to hear binary other than screw with rogue AI?

Give them "show alerts" if you really want them to be informed like that, which they shouldn't anyway.

Shockingly, good AI teams tend to say things like "hull breach at X" and the like. That's not information you get efficiently or clearly from simple atmos alerts or power alerts. Preventing access to even simple information on the pretext that the player might be stupid and break their laws is similar grounds for saying that borgs should be removed because they might violate their laws and take all radios away from the AI because they might break their laws. Drones are given laws that specifically say "do not directly interfere with other beings."

Backtracking to the last time this was brought up "You mind your own business." You don't have time to worry about rogue AIs or traitor's shooting people or whatever because the lights just burnt out and need replacing. You don't have time to care that the AI just shockbolted the crew into maint. The plasma a second ago broke these floor tiles over here and made a couple of breaches.

Really, if the whole argument against drones is "players will be stupid and not follow the rules, that's a rules problem, not a feature problem.

Miauw wrote:

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

Miauw wrote:just

Three days ago.

literally only three posts away from your own post

>not using "Unread" button that takes you directly to the first post you haven't read.

I read that. But it was three days ago. Excuse me for not remembering all of the threads about shitty video game.

cedarbridge wrote:Shockingly, good AI teams tend to say things like "hull breach at X" and the like. That's not information you get efficiently or clearly from simple atmos alerts or power alerts. Preventing access to even simple information on the pretext that the player might be stupid and break their laws is similar grounds for saying that borgs should be removed because they might violate their laws and take all radios away from the AI because they might break their laws. Drones are given laws that specifically say "do not directly interfere with other beings."

Backtracking to the last time this was brought up "You mind your own business." You don't have time to worry about rogue AIs or traitor's shooting people or whatever because the lights just burnt out and need replacing. You don't have time to care that the AI just shockbolted the crew into maint. The plasma a second ago broke these floor tiles over here and made a couple of breaches.

Really, if the whole argument against drones is "players will be stupid and not follow the rules, that's a rules problem, not a feature problem.

Isn't responding to the breach that was reported by AI is interacting with another being?

I'm sorry, I'm just not really used to that lawset yet.

Besides, it's not that I'm afraid that everyone will break their laws. I just want drones to be freeroamers, just guys who move around semi-randomly doing semi-random things, not some kind of emergency response team or even damage control.

Can we please make then look like the repair drones from XCOM Uknown (or Within, can't remeber)? I really like their design.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Isn't responding to the breach that was reported by AI is interacting with another being?

The only way that would amount to interference is if the drones were doing something to stop the crew/borgs/AI from repairing that breach (getting in the way/moving needed materials away/etc) and doing so knowingly. That would violate their law against direct interference. Otherwise, hearing the AI mention the breach is not much different from the drones seeing the breach or hearing a human mention the breach as they shuttle past or something. I think the "directly interfere" bit will clear a lot of the confusion on these issues. You can do a lot of things without overtly contacting and communicating with other non-drones.