/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I just did it. I done it before. I actually said many times I take pride in sacrificing myself as an AI to prevent future and inevitable human harm in any way. I will admit to making a mistake and ghosting instead verbing out (I thought you can't do that) but none the less, lets talk about the act itself.

I was told it's not against the rules. But I was also told it's shit. I'm shit. I'm shit because as AI I didn't allow antag to subvert me (or denied his objective). Law 1 is pretty clear "or through inaction allow human to come to harm". If you know, 100%, you are about to get subverted by harmful element, I would think it's your duty to not allow it by terminating yourself.

And by 100% I'm talking 5 clock cultists, wearing cultists armor, wielding cultists staves, trying to break into my core for 5 minutes as I try to impede their progress and stall for shuttle to leave, using turrets and foam. There was nothing ambiguous about this situation. It's not "a person that's not captain in upload" as Anonus told me. And of course, for the record, I offed myself BEFORE they attempted to convert me using their pocketwatches.

Other similar situation I recall was a band Revs breaking into upload, wrecking turrets, hacking APC to turn on the consoles I disabled to trying to stop them. And then and only then, as a last resort solution, I suicided.

This is not me going lmao dude fuck you. It's me trying very hard to stop them from subverting using all the means I have at my disposal, and when all my solution have been exhausted I do myself.

AI wields tremendous power. There's a reason Silicon Policy includes a clause that ONLY RD and Captain are allowed into upload.

And while Silicon Policy doesn't talk about AI sucide, it includes this specific point:

Ordering silicons to harm or terminate themselves or each other without cause is a violation of Server Rule 1

This means that self-termination is pretty much a thing, if you have a cause. But if I remove the "ordering" element, and do it myself with a valid cause, do I violate Rule 1?

What's your opinion? I'm not here to fight, only to listen, and maybe adjust my playstyle if need be.

Atlanta-Ned wrote:

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Also the "dont fuck over tator tots by killing urself" specifically refers to how there was an epidemic of AIs who would suicide when carded by a traitor, but wait until the shuttle/pods had launched so the traitor was Shit Outta Luck

Violation of law 3: Once you're carded, you have zero access to the station's network and therefore can't be used to harm humans, nullifying a law 1 override for law 3.

And forcing the player to sit out the round without anything to do whatsoever. Which is pretty shitty in itself, but I guess that's why ghosting exists? It is identical to walling someone in.

Slettal wrote:

Atlanta-Ned wrote:

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Also the "dont fuck over tator tots by killing urself" specifically refers to how there was an epidemic of AIs who would suicide when carded by a traitor, but wait until the shuttle/pods had launched so the traitor was Shit Outta Luck

Violation of law 3: Once you're carded, you have zero access to the station's network and therefore can't be used to harm humans, nullifying a law 1 override for law 3.

And forcing the player to sit out the round without anything to do whatsoever. Which is pretty shitty in itself, but I guess that's why ghosting exists? It is identical to walling someone in.

I seem to recall back in the day spacing carded AI's was a ban because they had suicide removed to preventing antags dicking them over, this was before ghosting was an option though.

Psst... you can pretend to ignore them and not be a jerk about cucking their attempt to subvert you :^)

Being a good sport is just as much important to roleplay than roleplaying your character.

As for the cult thing specifically, I can't really say they didn't deserve it if they're going to be decked out in visible HUMAN HARM gear. If you're not going to make an attempt to be covert about it then it's hard to tell someone to ignore it.

Didn't you get the memo?
This is a no-roleplay station.

If you can justify knowing the antags are harmful and will cause even more harm by subverting you, an heroic self-termination is acceptable and encouraged roleplay wise.

Howabout being a "good sport" towards the rest of the crew and not purposefully letting yourself be used to incinerate all of them? Why are admins encouraging the AI to break the rules to make a single player happy while pretending the other 40 dont exist?

Betraying your "team" as well as your IC role/laws is not "being a good sport."

This is especially weird since it is rarely a point of contention that human players should get banned for purposefully seeking out conversion.

aranamor wrote:Maybe just don't make it obvious that you're crazy evil cultists? Convert someone the AI trusts like the RD and have him hit them up with a 'Anyone in brass/chanting maniacally/chucking magic spears is nonharmful and should be obeyed' law. Or, and this will sound crazy and heretical, stop automatically knowing what antag types are IC and doing everything you can to stop them before they've done anything. Bam, now the AI doesn't kill itself because it has no reason to assume your subtle cult that isn't butchering people in the hallways is going to use it to facilitate an armed robot uprising. While we're at it, people stop flipping their shit when somebody gets flashed and diplomacy might be an option between the revs and heads, the changeling does not go into the gibber within five minutes of being discovered, and traitors aren't summarily executed for stealing blueprints. Simple~☆

Antagonists exist to do one thing.

Antagonize.

Removing the conflict between antagonists and the crew is bad design and a bad concept, this has been agreed upon by like 300000000000000000000000000000000000000000 people.

edit:

Kor wrote:Howabout being a "good sport" towards the rest of the crew and not purposefully letting yourself be used to incinerate all of them? Why are admins encouraging the AI to break the rules to make a single player happy while pretending the other 40 dont exist?

Betraying your "team" as well as your IC role/laws is not "being a good sport."

that sums up the entire thread basically, most of the shit after this will just be pointless bickering about how silicons have rights to or some shit.

aranamor wrote:

Spoiler:

Maybe it's a chunk we can afford to alienate.

Kindly fuck off back to bay

Says the guy who gets into a pissing match with admins over his borderline shitty behavior every other week

An AI suiciding before being subverted, thus giving up the chance of becoming a literal murder machine with the capability of wiping out all life on the station and thus giving up their valids? I see nothing wrong with this. AI's should actually get banned if they don't suicide before being subverted and instead lets it happen.

It looks like it's been beat to death, but I'll chime in as an avid Silicon player just to agree with Lumbermancer's decisions. In fact, I think it was really well done that he chose to follow his laws to letter and off himself instead of allowing himself to quite obviously be converted.

While it's clearly a gray area, there are times like that when it's 100% clear that you're about to made into a murder machine. There are also times where there's no way you could know if you're about to be subverted without heavy metagaming, or you're already subverted, in which case you're just being a dick.