/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I have an idea

what if we gave security players a bigger hitbox

Because muh "paranoia" and muh "loose cannon, turn in your badge"

Because some people want to spawn with a infinite charge stun baton and the best gun in the game.

I still disagree with the stupid inconsistency of the Detective having antag status on yet he still has a loyalty implant, but all indication he should be just as immune to being a antag as a security officer, but he's a exception and no one wants to remove his loyalty/mindshield implant.

Detective antag is shit

>mfw the same PR that gives the Detective antag status also gave the Detective increased access to security

I'm gonna propose a revert PR to bring the Detective back into the fold and make him immune to being a antag.

It wont work, but its always worth a shot.

PR up: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/18585

Kor is generally pretty sensible and he is the design lead, maybe you can get him to merge it

Just give Detective real snowflake loose cannon objectives. He doesn't need to be a syndicate traitor to be an anatag.

You know how well the general population handles "roleplay" objectives.

OH SHIT I GOT AN OBJECTIVE, TIME TO FLOOD PLASMA

Got an abductor gland about convincing the crew our reality is not the true reality. Better steal the armory and kill everyone

Still pisses me off to this day that an admin told that guy it was okay to do

Lumbermancer wrote:Just give Detective real snowflake loose cannon objectives. He doesn't need to be a syndicate traitor to be an anatag.

Yeah, this. Detective antag is fun, but this would be so much funner.

I do not think i have even once seen a detective use antag to play the loose cannon, other than being a literal guy loose with a cannon when they buy a real revolver to substitute the detective one

Could work.

--Create a title for each department officer "Science Security Officer" That way when they speak over sec channel you know who is who.
--Remove Warden.
--HOS remains, his job is to coordinate sec like now. Keep track of sec issues in the departments. Coordinate reinforcements over radio if a department needs help. "Hey Science officer, go check out medbay and make sure Medical officer is ok"
--Make the Brig smaller. Move most of the gear lockers to department offices. HOS is in charge of the armory. Put a cell in each department office. Reduce the brig to maybe 2 cells and Perma.
--Prisoners would be detained by the department guards in their own offices. Overflow could go to the brig.
--Each department gets up to 2 guards. That's 8 officers, more than we'll ever have, cap the job at that.
--Keep Detective. By divvying up sec officers to dedicated departments the detective would be less of a substitute office and would be more like he's intended. He would work directly under the HOS to investigate anything. Give the Detective low level access to each department, like what department sec has now.

Some issues I see:

With departmental security there is little need for a warden since in theory there won't often be prisoners in the brig. But the HOS would often be busy and not able to deal with it. Warden would be boring though if there are rarely prisoners. With no warden and officers rarely coming to the brig the armory is much more exposed.

Possible Solution: Move the armory to near the bridge. HOS can open it up when necessary.

>Remove warden

Fuck off Paprika. Fuck off with the notion that the armory doesn't need to be guarded. The warden serves an important role, removing it would just have someone else do it.

>HoS is the new warden, armchair general

Fuck off Paprika. Fuck off with your "m-muh delegating duty", the HoS is supposed to be Judge Dredd, running around being badass and heroic and doing what he wants because HE IS THE LAAWWWWW and shooting all the right people until he dies or the round ends.

>Breaking up the brig

Not sure about this one. It sounds like a shit idea, but it might work. Good fucking luck finding room to put the cells on any map that wasn't built with this idea in mind though.

Those suggestions are only for the idea of departmental security, where the brig would be a headquarters that doesn't have prisoners often.

Lumbermancer wrote:Just give Detective real snowflake loose cannon objectives. He doesn't need to be a syndicate traitor to be an anatag.

This can easily be done once coiax finishes datum antags, but right now it would probably not be good coding.

And if the Detective can be special antag in any game mode, it would make things more interesting.

>Wanting to split sec into de(r)p sec again

Maybe if we do snowflake det antag we could do other things like snowflake captain antag and stuff

Steelpoint wrote:Departmental Security was implemented as a attempt to justify taking away general departmental access to Officers, the idea that one officer would man the outpost in each department and patrol it.

...

[*]It made individual Officers weaker due to lack of basic departmental access, thus making it much harder to do their job. How do you respond to help from RnD quickly when you only have basic Cargo access? (this is still a problem)

>Steelpoint making shit up to try and justify more buffs

I helped create department security. My intention was to give security more access into these departments with the idea of Basic Access.

In fact, it was department security that introduced the idea of basic department access in the first place (I was the one who reorganised access). Before Dept sec, basic "hallway" access was not even a thing, and all security officers had access to was the brig and nothing else.

Det antag could've worked if people weren't so unwilling to work on it. I suggested for a while to remove the detective's loyalty implant and sec headset so he would be more separated from security.

Make all secs guns do no damage...and replace the tazer with a water gun that can't slip floors

Ikarrus wrote:

Steelpoint wrote:Departmental Security was implemented as a attempt to justify taking away general departmental access to Officers, the idea that one officer would man the outpost in each department and patrol it.

...

[*]It made individual Officers weaker due to lack of basic departmental access, thus making it much harder to do their job. How do you respond to help from RnD quickly when you only have basic Cargo access? (this is still a problem)

>Steelpoint making shit up to try and justify more buffs

I helped create department security. My intention was to give security more access into these departments with the idea of Basic Access.

In fact, it was department security that introduced the idea of basic department access in the first place (I was the one who reorganised access). Before Dept sec, basic "hallway" access was not even a thing, and all security officers had access to was the brig and nothing else.

I think I was mixing up my general Officer complaints at the time where while I liked the added access but I disliked how the access was randomly alloted based on when you joined the round and which department you were assigned to.

I guess I did mess up my history on that note though. I was just not a fan of Departmental Security at the time due to it serving to fracture Security.

Saegrimr wrote:You know how well the general population handles "roleplay" objectives.

OH SHIT I GOT AN OBJECTIVE, TIME TO FLOOD PLASMA

What if roleplay objectives were a privilege managed by an admin handler?

>Getting our admins to do hard work and not just press buttons and ban people they don't like

http://niceme.me/

Remove brig as is.
-No timered cells, they're pointless and are not really a deterrent.
-Large open prison area that you shove shitlers into.
-Volunteers can opt for gulag to not be bored, attempt escape, or actually show they aren't shit and earn a way out
-Move prison to lavaland perhaps entirely, with station-side things only being brig offices/armory/transfer for Hell prison below
-Problem with brig is all the access; you lose one officer and he opens the gates of shit to flood into the brig. In prison, the guards are locked into the wings when investigating by control office (warden or another officer in our case). This should go for general brig entrance period, too. An officer dying out on the beat or in jail is one thing, their weapons get taken and used against the other guards; their access makes it all the worse once stolen.

This is probably awful, but I've always hated tg brig as its stood, and find the concept of perma, plus brig and gulag, to be so nonsensical and a waste of space even now. In order to properly compartmentalize things, some areas have to be merged or nixed to keep the area reasonably sized. Perma as it stands is useless imo, same really for gulag, as they are. Neither are used enough at all along with the badly B&E'd brig serving as a revolving door for what little does go through them.