/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Isn't Manuel going through like some weird lrp popchase wave? And wouldn't the most noticeable parts of that wave of players be when they are playing antagonists like heretic?

Are the majority of problematic heretic examples piloted by long time MRP players?



Also what makes heretic worse than cult / rev? heretics can also act as limited group antagonists, and cult / rev also speedrun their victories and round remove people in the process, the most powergaming i see on manuel is not when crew is responding to ascended heretics instead its with crew responding to cult and rev rounds.

Even warops announcement is followed by 16 minutes of powergaming.

Heretic is a high impact antagonist just like the others, compare it to them?

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 26, 2025 7:23 am Isn't Manuel going through like some weird lrp popchase wave? And wouldn't the most noticeable parts of that wave of players be when they are playing antagonists like heretic?

Are the majority of problematic heretic examples piloted by long time MRP players?



Also what makes heretic worse than cult / rev? heretics can also act as limited group antagonists, and cult / rev also speedrun their victories and round remove people in the process, the most powergaming i see on manuel is not when crew is responding to ascended heretics instead its with crew responding to cult and rev rounds.

Even warops announcement is followed by 16 minutes of powergaming.

Heretic is a high impact antagonist just like the others, compare it to them?

I think you're comparing apples and oranges. Rev and Cult are recruitment antags so they have to act in a way because they actually have a hard limit of how long they can stealth for. Cult literally has a point where they can no longer be stealthy when they get to a certain number of recruits. Revs basically exist to say "go murderbone a head" so its only a matter of time before that becomes obvious too. Heretics I feel, rush their ascension because its the fun part of playing heretic. It gives them the big epic gamer ability that lets them never get killed and that's probably my least favorite part. It's one thing when one side wins and the round is just over, and I can move on to the next. I can't stand when Assfuck Mcgreytide that ascends every time as heretic gets to have their way with the station and I can't do shit about it.

I want to see if anyone that doesn't play heretic that also supports it. Just out of curiosity. I genuinely think the heretic supporters just like playing it which is a dumb reason to want to keep something.

bingusdingus wrote: ↑Thu Jun 26, 2025 6:19 pm I want to see if anyone that doesn't play heretic that also supports it. Just out of curiosity. I genuinely think the heretic supporters just like playing it which is a dumb reason to want to keep something.

I don't play heretic, I generally have antags disabled (rn i have BB and tot enabled only but rarely roll em)

I think there can be interesting RP that stems from heretic, so I don't really wanna see it gone. But it feels like the heretic from over a year ago was a lot more balanced, while it's now so powercrept and hell to play against, that I don't really support its current form.

I also am extremely discouraged by the attitude of the main coder who's been working on the rework, their dismissive attitude, and their unwillingness to integrate more lore into the current state of heretic or to consider the enjoyment of other players.

MothNyan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 26, 2025 10:08 pm

bingusdingus wrote: ↑Thu Jun 26, 2025 6:19 pm I want to see if anyone that doesn't play heretic that also supports it. Just out of curiosity. I genuinely think the heretic supporters just like playing it which is a dumb reason to want to keep something.

I don't play heretic, I generally have antags disabled (rn i have BB and tot enabled only but rarely roll em)

I think there can be interesting RP that stems from heretic, so I don't really wanna see it gone. But it feels like the heretic from over a year ago was a lot more balanced, while it's now so powercrept and hell to play against, that I don't really support its current form.

I also am extremely discouraged by the attitude of the main coder who's been working on the rework, their dismissive attitude, and their unwillingness to integrate more lore into the current state of heretic or to consider the enjoyment of other players.

One reason for this change in how Heretic is from this time last year (and I'm basically talking on a limb here, I've never even played Heretic) is the simple fact that there are less resources and what have you to work with nowadays. More of this would make everything better and more fully realized.

bingusdingus wrote: ↑Thu Jun 26, 2025 6:19 pm
I think you're comparing apples and oranges. Rev and Cult are recruitment antags so they have to act in a way because they actually have a hard limit of how long they can stealth for. Cult literally has a point where they can no longer be stealthy when they get to a certain number of recruits. Revs basically exist to say "go murderbone a head" so its only a matter of time before that becomes obvious too. Heretics I feel, rush their ascension because its the fun part of playing heretic. It gives them the big epic gamer ability that lets them never get killed and that's probably my least favorite part. It's one thing when one side wins and the round is just over, and I can move on to the next. I can't stand when Assfuck Mcgreytide that ascends every time as heretic gets to have their way with the station and I can't do shit about it.

I want to see if anyone that doesn't play heretic that also supports it. Just out of curiosity. I genuinely think the heretic supporters just like playing it which is a dumb reason to want to keep something.

1. Heretic has an entire path dedicated to act as a limited recruitment antag.
2. Heretic also has a hard limit for how long they can stealth infact just their recruitment antag thralls literally tells everyone they are bad on examine no matter what they are wearing to cover themselves so stealth is not a given option.
3. Heretic literally needs to sacrifice heads of staff.
4. Cult victory is literally an ascension with several minutes of murderbone
5. I dont even play “heretic” to use antagonist tools, for over a year i didnt even have the ability to research spells because the research menu was blacked out due to a wrong byond version, i only use my antag rolls to use crew accessible gear to antagonize the station so dont say im a genuine heretic player that even bothers with it’s kit.

My only genuine attempt at ascending as heretic was when everyone i sacrificed kept coming back to kill me and then they bitched and complained after the round because the sacrifice trauma made it easy for me to just kill them again and i spent the entire round not being able to learn the antag but instead killing all of security and command and the chaplain in sci maint of meta station and didnt get to learn anything, and then those same people fucking celebrated in dead chat when i /suicided to go do something else since i wasnt gonna have time left to learn anything and gain meta knowledge from the round.



And thats not the antag’s fault thats just how the game works where it takes time to kill everyone throwing themselves at you and one of the major reasons why i trend toward ways to passively kill people without too much of my own input.

regie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 26, 2025 11:18 pm One reason for this change in how Heretic is from this time last year (and I'm basically talking on a limb here, I've never even played Heretic) is the simple fact that there are less resources and what have you to work with nowadays. More of this would make everything better and more fully realized.

Can you clarify on what we have less resources of? I'm just curious

I also believe there's been a lot of changes to make heretics stronger in the past year

MothNyan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 27, 2025 3:42 am

regie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 26, 2025 11:18 pm One reason for this change in how Heretic is from this time last year (and I'm basically talking on a limb here, I've never even played Heretic) is the simple fact that there are less resources and what have you to work with nowadays. More of this would make everything better and more fully realized.

Can you clarify on what we have less resources of? I'm just curious

I also believe there's been a lot of changes to make heretics stronger in the past year

It's a general feeling that you get, everything feels like it's happening on a smaller scale than this time last year, for instance we've been getting coding changes that are happening without any actual testing prior (some lighting changes I noticed a couple weeks ago were leaving random dark patches)