/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Just want to let people know that I'm still working on this.
Nothing really to show yet though, had to redo a lot of places to sort of reorient it with the station, and trying to make everything fit.
I should have just done an H from the start though, honestly. Looks a lot better.

Yay, good luck!

Here's a preview of what its looking like.
I just need to slam in the dorms/escape in the bottom left area, and add a few smaller rooms to the halls.
When that is done I'll post a full map and then I can start on the wiring/piping.

I like the spindly effect it produces!

Oh boy, here it is in full.
Now would be the time to look over it and comment on what you think needs to change.
Because once that process is over, I will start the wiring/piping phase and then it will be a huge pain to change anything.

Here it is.

Some minor notes:
I put the Gravgen in between atmos and engineering, this means it's probably harder to get to for your average joe, but probably less monitored and harder to fix.

There are a ton of ways to get power on this map, most of them will be in severe disrepair. The point being that any department can provide its own power, if it wishes to be fully independent.

The way maint is now will probably change once I start filling it in, so any places that look boring or messy will probably get cleaned up.

The library and chapel are in dorms now, will that mean more visitors to dorms or less visitors to both sections? Who knows.

The kitchen goes through the bar now, like a proper restaurant. If there is no bartender, the chef still has bar access.
Same goes for botany. I wanted there to be a bit more teamwork between those departments, and make the bar feel more like a place to order food, rather than just having the kitchen act as a food dispenser.
There is also a snackbar at escape/dorms, because why not. It doesn't have as much supplies as the big kitchen would, but you can make some basic stuff.

There is a shop by medbay, it will probably have cargo access for all the secure stuff. I dunno how well that will work out though, maybe I should make it a botany garden instead.

Also, the AI is kind of in a weird spot, please tell me what you think.

please give medbay 2 cryo tubes. dont make them constructable. and give them sleepers. medbay doesnt need a nerf when the new chem system is hated so much.

Medbay does have sleepers, they're just in the medical rooms instead of being out in the open.
No one ever uses those rooms, so I figured I could tuck the sleepers away there and make healing like that a bit more personal.
Besides, sleepers are pretty much useless now unless you upgrade them.
And yeah, still not sure the 1 cryo thing was a good idea.
I wanted more incentive for engineers to go around and build stuff, but now that the station is done, its obvious that they have their work cut out for them.

Is that really the only problem you have with the map though? You usually have a laundry list of problems with stuff and I'd love it if you'd comb over my map like that.
I've already noticed that adding a maint door to the HoP office is a terrible idea, and that I'm missing the changing room.

I put the Gravgen in between atmos and engineering, this means it's probably harder to get to for your average joe, but probably less monitored and harder to fix.

Prehaps wall it off from deep space? It seems like a very juicy target right now.

The library and chapel are in dorms now, will that mean more visitors to dorms or less visitors to both sections? Who knows.

They both are not very big traffic draws at all. In someways you want to put them in high traffic areas since they don't draw any traffic by themselves really.

Love idea of the snack bar and the shop. Hope it can be well run enough to work.

AI looks pretty secure and it's fairly close the R&D to boot. I like the setup.

I wanted more incentive for engineers to go around and build stuff, but now that the station is done, its obvious that they have their work cut out for them.

I struggle with that too when designing maps but I realized that while interesting and in-character, it really isn't that fun to setup the station every round. I mean we can barely get the singulo up before people run off to built forts some times. I think in general people want to do more fun things and have the fun things match the RP than they want to do RP things and then try and make the RP fun. The solution being make the process of setting the station up not involve the same actions every time and make those actions engaging. You're always going to want an extra cryo tube and walking over there, asking for access, setting it up, leaving is just time out of the round doing a chore.

Celdur wrote:Medbay does have sleepers, they're just in the medical rooms instead of being out in the open.
No one ever uses those rooms, so I figured I could tuck the sleepers away there and make healing like that a bit more personal.
Besides, sleepers are pretty much useless now unless you upgrade them.
And yeah, still not sure the 1 cryo thing was a good idea.
I wanted more incentive for engineers to go around and build stuff, but now that the station is done, its obvious that they have their work cut out for them.

Is that really the only problem you have with the map though? You usually have a laundry list of problems with stuff and I'd love it if you'd comb over my map like that.
I've already noticed that adding a maint door to the HoP office is a terrible idea, and that I'm missing the changing room.

the map image is gone now, so i cant

JackHunt wrote: Prehaps wall it off from deep space? It seems like a very juicy target right now.

Yeah, its an easy target for nuke ops now. But then again no gravity seems like kryptonite for nuke ops, so maybe it wont be a problem.
On the other hand, the AI and comms seem a bit more secure from the usual nuke op tricks, so there's that.

They both are not very big traffic draws at all. In someways you want to put them in high traffic areas since they don't draw any traffic by themselves really.

I'm not sure if its that big a problem to be honest. Even in high traffic areas no one visits those places other than to hide or to get to the maint behind it.
There are only a few people that go there for RP reasons, and I'm sure that will stay the same.
I don't mind dorms being a bit of a antag hideout, compared to box where almost the entire left side of the station is abandoned most of the round.

I struggle with that too when designing maps but I realized that while interesting and in-character, it really isn't that fun to setup the station every round. I mean we can barely get the singulo up before people run off to built forts some times. I think in general people want to do more fun things and have the fun things match the RP than they want to do RP things and then try and make the RP fun. The solution being make the process of setting the station up not involve the same actions every time and make those actions engaging. You're always going to want an extra cryo tube and walking over there, asking for access, setting it up, leaving is just time out of the round doing a chore.

Yeah, mandatory chores are a bad idea, I should add a 2nd cryo and leave room for a 3rd if people feel like making it. Same thing I did with the cloning bay and some other places.

allura wrote:the map image is gone now, so i cant

Its up again (over here)
With Pomf going down, all the clone sites are getting all the traffic it used to get, so they're going down as well.
I guess I'll have to go back to imgur, so enjoy the forced low quality jpeg.

just use dropbox for an hq image

alright, done

really, just connect the modules to the rest of the station instead of them being disconnected. that will be a very, very annoying thing to deal with when the station has holes punched in it every round.

honestly, no matter how hard i look over it i cant get enraged like i did with disc station. there's a lot of mistakes here and there, but you really do have the core idea down and you have a great idea. just do what you do, man, you're on the right path.

Station is badass, i like it.

One thing

You /need/ more tiny maintance walkways between each module,
Theres enough choke points in here to choke a horse.

Really gotta love the table setup in the permabrig.

This map has a lot of potential.

Here's my two cents.
Shutters to seal off each module from the main ring could be a good idea. (Also another pair to the airbridges, or would it be too much?) You could put buttons to manipulate each modules shutter to the corresponding heads office and to bridge. Access wouldn't be a problem, since there are multiple ways to access a dept, and the shutters could make hunkering down easier, and sealing a dept off from the rest of the station in case of a emergency.

Adding manual valves to remove a module from the station distro could be a good idea too, and a effective counter to plasma floods.

EmGee wrote: Adding manual valves to remove a module from the station distro could be a good idea too, and a effective counter to plasma floods.

Yeah, I was planning on doing that.
I had an idea of adding an SMES to every module as well, to have a sort of one way power flow, but that would probably be too many SMES's.

Not sure about the shutters though, sounds like it'd be too abusable.

Celdur wrote:

EmGee wrote: Adding manual valves to remove a module from the station distro could be a good idea too, and a effective counter to plasma floods.

Yeah, I was planning on doing that.
I had an idea of adding an SMES to every module as well, to have a sort of one way power flow, but that would probably be too many SMES's.

Not sure about the shutters though, sounds like it'd be too abusable.

How would the shutters be abusable? Box and meta has em' in sec, engi, atmos and science, sealing the main entrance, and they work just fine. (Besides, there's always a way to go around them.)

.

Well, I suppose you're right.
It just that areas like atmos/engineering are often deserted.
And even in Sci you're just locking down employees at best most of the time.
If you lock down a whole department, you also lock down the lobby where people go to loiter and get stuff.

I guess even then it will probably not be a big deal, but its not quite the same as box/meta.
Also, putting like 8 buttons on the bridge for each department shutdown will definitely be abused.
Not that heads of staff or the AI couldn't counter it, but it probably would happen a lot anyway.
Hell, can you imagine nuke ops getting access to that kind of thing? can you Emag buttons?

Yes, you can emag buttons.

And it would be hilarious.

Yeah, it would.
Until it becomes mandatory for nuke ops to teleport into the bridge and imprison everyone in their little corners with an emag.

More of a cosmetic thing, but the arrivals pods bug me a bit.

I don't think they should just be "hanging" there, having walls wrap up around the engines would look better

Wow, I didn't think I'd see a full map of this any time soon.

Some thoughts:
- The asymmetrical Bridge and alignment with the AI upload is horrifying, I don't know how you can fix it without seriously arranging other things but it looks really terrible.
- The Turbine being attached to Bridge is very strange, especially considering it's distance from Atmospherics. I'm not sure if you're too familiar with how it works, but for any serious grade of efficiency, it requires piping from the source tanks outside Atmos.
- R&D Machines not all being within 1 tile reach in a quartet is extremely inconvenient.
- Xenobio secure containment requires a disposal unit to dump things in there
- The Brig is severely lacking in rwalls. I assume this was an oversight.
- The Mailroom lacks a path via which Cargo staff may let disposal riders out while not letting them into the Cargo Office.
- EVA's layout just looks strange, but that's probably just me.
- Is that TEG fully functional?
- Singularity containment badly requires a northern wall, sabotage is made indefinitely easier when you can simply waltz in.
- Surgery seems to have an odd gap between the tables, console, and the rightmost wall.

These are all usability issues I noticed.

There's two turbines last I checked, Scones.

Haven't worked on the map in a bit.
I've been kinda busy with work lately, and holy fuck has it been hot so I did not have energy to do anything.
Now that it's cooling down, I'll get to making some changes and maybe start to wire everything up.

Scones wrote:Wow, I didn't think I'd see a full map of this any time soon.

Some thoughts:
- The asymmetrical Bridge and alignment with the AI upload is horrifying, I don't know how you can fix it without seriously arranging other things but it looks really terrible.

Yeah, it didn't used to be like that, I had to widen up the bridge to make it fit with the station and I didn't touch upload after that. I'll be sure to fix that cause it tickles my autism too.

- The Turbine being attached to Bridge is very strange, especially considering it's distance from Atmospherics. I'm not sure if you're too familiar with how it works, but for any serious grade of efficiency, it requires piping from the source tanks outside Atmos.

The way things are right now, nearly all modules have a way of providing their own power with the proper setup.
The bridge and bar don't have any access to sunlight so they get a turbine. Though its very rough right now. The bar's turbine will probably be in a state of disrepair and the bridge will have some toxin/oxy tanks to deal with.
Its not nearly as optimized as box's is but its only meant to power the bridge in case of emergency.

- R&D Machines not all being within 1 tile reach in a quartet is extremely inconvenient.

Yeah, I kinda had this idea of having a deconstruction side and a production side, but you often need to print a lot of stuff for research so I guess that's not very practical.

- Xenobio secure containment requires a disposal unit to dump things in there

Was planning on adding one, the only disposals I've places so far are in place where I wanted to make sure I could fit it neatly.

- The Brig is severely lacking in rwalls. I assume this was an oversight.

Yeah, most of that used to connect to space. Also, I might make that engineering area heads only, not sure if that's a good idea yet.

- The Mailroom lacks a path via which Cargo staff may let disposal riders out while not letting them into the Cargo Office.

Is that really that big of a deal? I guess I could move the sec office over a bit.

- EVA's layout just looks strange, but that's probably just me.

It's actually pretty similar to box's EVA, aside from the crazy table spam.

- Is that TEG fully functional?

It's in severe disrepair, the idea is that if atmos techs are bored they can work on fixing it.
There is enough room for them to put down everything they need.

- Singularity containment badly requires a northern wall, sabotage is made indefinitely easier when you can simply waltz in.

Actually, when the field is up its impossible to get in without some explosives/tools. Same as it would be with a closed Rwall.

- Surgery seems to have an odd gap between the tables, console, and the rightmost wall.

Oh yeah, I flipped all of medbay 90 degrees and I must have placed that whole part too far to the left.

Thanks for the feedback, things are looking a lot better now.
Still need to flair up the hallways a bit though, they are still a bit barren.

Celdur wrote:

- Is that TEG fully functional?

It's in severe disrepair, the idea is that if atmos techs are bored they can work on fixing it.
There is enough room for them to put down everything they need.

<3

Update picture pretty please

Scones wrote:Update picture pretty please

Sure thing, Here you go

Added some more maint access.
Added a few more things to the hallways to make it less empty feeling. (mainly on the starboard side)
Fixed a few things I got feedback from.
Made a few changes that you probably wont notice.

Lemme know if there's anything else you see that needs changing.
Or if anything I changed stinks.
I'll start wiring in full soon, and then there's no going back.

Surgery computer and op table go one tile to the right, looks better + you can access all the tools by standing in one place

Yeah, I figured that would be more practical too but I kinda want the surgery table to be centered.

Went ahead and got started on the boring autism stuff, pretty happy with the layout right now.
Finished placing pretty much all APCs and wired it all up.
Added lighting to most areas too, probably needs a bit of tweaking but it didn't look too bad from a test walk around.
That means atmos piping starts tomorrow, and then disposals.



Here's some vague screenshots of the layout and wiring, just because it looks neat I guess.


EDIT:

Well shit, I finished all piping in one day.
Next up is disposals I guess.
Might take a bit longer since I'm not quite sure how it works.

Triple post time.

Finished the guts of the station.
You can take a look here
You can disconnect each segment from distro/filter through pumps in maint.
All power and atmos lines enter and exit through the main entrance of a module, which means its very easy to disconnect.
Probably will be a high target for sabotage, but at the same time it will be very easy to troubleshoot and fix.
Disposals is kind of a wild ride, dunno if that is a good or a bad thing.
Tell me if you notice any mistakes, or if you have a problem with the way I've done things.

Up next is items and finishing up rooms.
Then I'll probably do bot pathfinding which sounds like a huge pain in the ass.
Gonna have to do a few other Z-levels too, At least the holodeck needs its own stuff.

Speaking of, I was thinking, is it a good idea to make the mining asteroid all access?
It would have a miners only area, but it would have a medbay checkpoint, some kind of engine/solars, and a tiny atmos to make it feel a bit more real.
Going to the asteroid for antag business is always really exciting, but it barely ever happens, so why not right? I'd like to know what you guys think.

Mining might be getting an overhaul in the coming months with lavaland stuff. How hardened are the connections? How big of a bomb do you need to have to completely sever a section off? I think the walkways connecting sections could be a bit beefier but other than that there seems to be a good balance of possible exits.

JackHunt wrote:Mining might be getting an overhaul in the coming months with lavaland stuff.

Yeah, but regardless of that, there will still probably be a small outpost for mining. And it'd be a shame if it was mining access only.

How hardened are the connections? How big of a bomb do you need to have to completely sever a section off? I think the walkways connecting sections could be a bit beefier but other than that there seems to be a good balance of possible exits.

Oddly enough I think bombs will be both more and less effective on this station.
All the space between the station means that stuff is more spread out, so bombs will cover less of the actual station.
But at the same time strategic placement can make it easier to sever access to locations than on other stations.
It'll be hard to completely disconnect a module though, since there are plenty of alternate routes through maint.
Might need a few more bridges here and there though, but it seems fine to me for now.
This station will probably be pretty dependent on engineers though, they will never not be busy, which is a good thing in my book.

That holodeck is absolutely gargantuan. you could have like, team-based lasertag arenas in that bitch

I miss you Cledur pls return ;-;

allura wrote:I miss you Cledur pls return ;-;

Sorry for dissapearing. I was sorta done with space station for a while, you know how it feels.
I guess I also stopped mapping because people seem to have lost interest.
I still am a bit burned out on playing space station, but I do want to finish this map.
So I worked on it a little bit.
Most areas have all the items now, only a few side rooms and maint need to have items slapped in.
Then I also still need to set up some stuff like cameras and bot pathing.
We'll see how it goes from here.

Celdur wrote: So I worked on it a little bit.

Link looks like it's not pointing to the right thing. I am sad.

Atlanta-Ned wrote:

Celdur wrote: So I worked on it a little bit.

Link looks like it's not pointing to the right thing. I am sad.

fixed it, I think?

Lookin real good so far, keep it up amigo.

Celdur wrote:

Atlanta-Ned wrote:

Celdur wrote: So I worked on it a little bit.

Link looks like it's not pointing to the right thing. I am sad.

fixed it, I think?

Loving it. Can't wait to see it fleshed out further.