/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Cobby wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:31 pm Please don’t quote the wiki as scripture or I’m making it say you’re an idiot.

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:31 pm I would also like to reiterate that I'm 99% sure this is already against the rules per rule 1; just killing random people for literally no reason as a rev has never been okay to my knowledge. Mind you that a "valid reason" could be something as simple as "they caught me flashing someone", but I've always treated killing someone as a rev for literally no reason like random murder.

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:31 pm I would also like to reiterate that I'm 99% sure this is already against the rules per rule 1; just killing random people for literally no reason as a rev has never been okay to my knowledge. Mind you that a "valid reason" could be something as simple as "they caught me flashing someone", but I've always treated killing someone as a rev for literally no reason like random murder.

blackdav123 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:05 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:31 pm I would also like to reiterate that I'm 99% sure this is already against the rules per rule 1; just killing random people for literally no reason as a rev has never been okay to my knowledge. Mind you that a "valid reason" could be something as simple as "they caught me flashing someone", but I've always treated killing someone as a rev for literally no reason like random murder.

Rule 4 would disagree, "Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team".

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:28 pm That seems somewhat out of kilter with the general enforcement attitude of the rest of the admin teams towards revs being allowed to blast down anyone who could remotely be interpreted as in their path but w/e

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:34 pm

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:28 pm That seems somewhat out of kilter with the general enforcement attitude of the rest of the admin teams towards revs being allowed to blast down anyone who could remotely be interpreted as in their path but w/e

It's important that a justification for killing someone under that rule is as simple as "I couldn't conveniently convert them". I'm not saying you need to have an insane amount of justification, but you need something. Just killing someone for shits and giggles isn't okay.

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:34 pm

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:28 pm That seems somewhat out of kilter with the general enforcement attitude of the rest of the admin teams towards revs being allowed to blast down anyone who could remotely be interpreted as in their path but w/e

It's important that a justification for killing someone under that rule is as simple as "I couldn't conveniently convert them". I'm not saying you need to have an insane amount of justification, but you need something. Just killing someone for shits and giggles isn't okay.

CPTANT wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:59 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:34 pm

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:28 pm That seems somewhat out of kilter with the general enforcement attitude of the rest of the admin teams towards revs being allowed to blast down anyone who could remotely be interpreted as in their path but w/e

It's important that a justification for killing someone under that rule is as simple as "I couldn't conveniently convert them". I'm not saying you need to have an insane amount of justification, but you need something. Just killing someone for shits and giggles isn't okay.

Stop trying to over-moderate everything. Rule 4 is there for a reason. Antag freedom is basically the premise of LRP. And yes that means killing someone for shits and giggles is 100% ok.

SkeletalElite wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:38 am Massively disagree, either you're a rev or a nanotrasen sympathizer. You don't get to play the middle

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:48 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:34 pm

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:28 pm That seems somewhat out of kilter with the general enforcement attitude of the rest of the admin teams towards revs being allowed to blast down anyone who could remotely be interpreted as in their path but w/e

It's important that a justification for killing someone under that rule is as simple as "I couldn't conveniently convert them". I'm not saying you need to have an insane amount of justification, but you need something. Just killing someone for shits and giggles isn't okay.

Huh, but like 90% of revs on the station dont have conversion tools, and stuns are rarer and less convenient than ever, so it's only the revheads or their immediate posse thats gonna have the ability to reasonably convert right?

kayozz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:50 am The way I see it is... Killing snitches/witnesses who report revs to sec is absolutely fine. Killing NT crew who try and attack the revs is fine. Especially if it's some validhunter trying to kill the head rev. But actively going out your way to kill some innocent random person who is not actively doing anything to disrupt the revs is a bit of a shitty one, like if you just walk into virology and behead the virologist without even attempting to tie them up for later conversion, then that's a bit shitty.

The only justification for killing medical staff in medbay (for no raisin) is if they're treating sec or heads, so that'd be justified. But blowing med up for no good reason would be shitty.

It's all circumstantial. If you can justify the reason for killing a non-head for any of the reasons mentioned, you shouldn't get in trouble.

As others have mentioned NT (non heads and non-sec) are potential recruits, so killing them is kinda counter-productive.

I mostly agree with Vekter on this one. At least TRY and convert. Your targets as a revolutionary are the heads, hiding behind sec.

kayozz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:50 am The way I see it is... Killing snitches/witnesses who report revs to sec is absolutely fine. Killing NT crew who try and attack the revs is fine. Especially if it's some validhunter trying to kill the head rev. But actively going out your way to kill some innocent random person who is not actively doing anything to disrupt the revs is a bit of a shitty one, like if you just walk into virology and behead the virologist without even attempting to tie them up for later conversion, then that's a bit shitty.

The only justification for killing medical staff in medbay (for no raisin) is if they're treating sec or heads, so that'd be justified. But blowing med up for no good reason would be shitty.

It's all circumstantial. If you can justify the reason for killing a non-head for any of the reasons mentioned, you shouldn't get in trouble.

As others have mentioned NT (non heads and non-sec) are potential recruits, so killing them is kinda counter-productive.

I mostly agree with Vekter on this one. At least TRY and convert. Your targets as a revolutionary are the heads, hiding behind sec.

kayozz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:50 am The way I see it is... Killing snitches/witnesses who report revs to sec is absolutely fine. Killing NT crew who try and attack the revs is fine. Especially if it's some validhunter trying to kill the head rev. But actively going out your way to kill some innocent random person who is not actively doing anything to disrupt the revs is a bit of a shitty one, like if you just walk into virology and behead the virologist without even attempting to tie them up for later conversion, then that's a bit shitty.

The only justification for killing medical staff in medbay (for no raisin) is if they're treating sec or heads, so that'd be justified. But blowing med up for no good reason would be shitty.

It's all circumstantial. If you can justify the reason for killing a non-head for any of the reasons mentioned, you shouldn't get in trouble.

As others have mentioned NT (non heads and non-sec) are potential recruits, so killing them is kinda counter-productive.

Farquaar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:13 am

kayozz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:50 am The way I see it is... Killing snitches/witnesses who report revs to sec is absolutely fine. Killing NT crew who try and attack the revs is fine. Especially if it's some validhunter trying to kill the head rev. But actively going out your way to kill some innocent random person who is not actively doing anything to disrupt the revs is a bit of a shitty one, like if you just walk into virology and behead the virologist without even attempting to tie them up for later conversion, then that's a bit shitty.

The only justification for killing medical staff in medbay (for no raisin) is if they're treating sec or heads, so that'd be justified. But blowing med up for no good reason would be shitty.

It's all circumstantial. If you can justify the reason for killing a non-head for any of the reasons mentioned, you shouldn't get in trouble.

As others have mentioned NT (non heads and non-sec) are potential recruits, so killing them is kinda counter-productive.

Revs aren't the good guys. They have a goal and they shouldn't have to care how many bodies pile up along the way.

There's no need for special rules here. If a rev attacks a non-rev who isn't harming them, they risk losing the fight and dying/deconverting. Unless winning that fight confers some benefit to their team, it's a bad idea to initiate that battle. If you don't want to get beaten up by a bloodthirsty revolutionary, then you need to tip the scales by making it more risky to attack you than to leave you alone. Things shouldn't be business as usual during a revolution- be afraid and adjust your behaviour accordingly!

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:40 am I'm opposed. I think any rules implemented on this will end in people whining to admins every time revs kill them demanding to know the reason they were killed, which will just end up as a huge annoyance for the revs and the admins. Let antags be antags, close any tickets involving "I died to a rev!" with IC issue, and save us all the headache. If it's really harmful to the rev team because they're killing potential revolutionaries, who cares? We don't bwoink nukies for buying balloons, even though that's objectively harmful to the nukie team and hurts their odds of winning. We don't bwoink cultists who get caught early. Why make a special exception for revolutionaries?

Farquaar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:13 am

kayozz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:50 am The way I see it is... Killing snitches/witnesses who report revs to sec is absolutely fine. Killing NT crew who try and attack the revs is fine. Especially if it's some validhunter trying to kill the head rev. But actively going out your way to kill some innocent random person who is not actively doing anything to disrupt the revs is a bit of a shitty one, like if you just walk into virology and behead the virologist without even attempting to tie them up for later conversion, then that's a bit shitty.

The only justification for killing medical staff in medbay (for no raisin) is if they're treating sec or heads, so that'd be justified. But blowing med up for no good reason would be shitty.

It's all circumstantial. If you can justify the reason for killing a non-head for any of the reasons mentioned, you shouldn't get in trouble.

As others have mentioned NT (non heads and non-sec) are potential recruits, so killing them is kinda counter-productive.

Revs aren't the good guys. They have a goal and they shouldn't have to care how many bodies pile up along the way.

There's no need for special rules here. If a rev attacks a non-rev who isn't harming them, they risk losing the fight and dying/deconverting. Unless winning that fight confers some benefit to their team, it's a bad idea to initiate that battle. If you don't want to get beaten up by a bloodthirsty revolutionary, then you need to tip the scales by making it more risky to attack you than to leave you alone. Things shouldn't be business as usual during a revolution- be afraid and adjust your behaviour accordingly!

In general no, conversion should take priority, however if the situation is dire you are allowed to kill as many as required to accomplish your goals.