Killing People For Killing Damn Pets

[Lord Sexual Waffle]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Let me kill people for killing my damn pets. This new rule is bullshit. Allowing me to kill peeps for it makes shit more interesting anyway.

[Incomptinence]

So if only antags can (presumably) kill the pets and not get banned will they be used as an antag test? Will antags cherish killing them maybe seeking to do so often enough the chase remains common putting us back to square one and the antagonist who actually needs the meat is back to trying to break into fort fox with the small dog appreciation society howling for their blood?

The walking barking forbidden fruit.

[ExplosiveCrate]

That's like saying that someome killing another player without beong banned can be used as an antag test.

[Vekter]

Let's just make the damn pets unkillable already.

[Steelpoint]

Why not buff their health so they can survive more than two punches?

[peoplearestrange]

Could do that, give them 100 hp rather than 20 which most of them seem to have.

[bandit]

Killing pets is no longer valid to immediately murder someone on the spot for. This was changed in the hopes that people would stop doing it, as it no longer sparks the manhunt and momentary feeling of being an antagonist on the run that people were killing the pet in the first place to achieve. Originally the hope was that people would eventually get tired of doing it and it would peter out. As we can plainly see after years of watching it still happen ever since pets were first added, that's not the case at all. People will continue to do it if it means they get to thumb their nose and run around until they get killed forever and always.

The thing is, I don't think people kill pets for the "manhunt and momentary feeling of being an antagonist on the run". I'm pretty sure most people who do it, do it because they can, because they think it's funny to piss people off. Same goes for WGW, come to think of it.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Could do that, give them 100 hp rather than 20 which most of them seem to have.

Also make them fight back.

[DemonFiren]

I think Poly already does. Ian definitely should. And Runtime, well...why the fuck not.

[Timbrewolf]

Ikky HG and myself talked briefly about this today. I'm in favor of making it a rule 1 violation to repeatedly kill people's pets or possessed animals roaming the station FNR.
HG would prefer to make it a 5 minute brig sentence.
Ikky approves a both.

Since we're sort of at a stalemate we'll go likely go with the current setup which is what HG suggested. Killing pets doesn't make them valid for murder but it is a crime worth a five minute brig timer.

[Pennwick]

5 minutes seems FAR too weak to even be a deterrent to something that is effectively greytiding.

(Personally now that killing them is banned I've formed a little plan of locking Ian murderers in that little chunk of main near the HoP office. Strip them, build some windows so I can watch them. Toss in wish soup if they complain about being hungry. If they keep complaining I may toss in a glass of nutriment mixed with Cryptoblin. Every now ant then I'd fire some disabler beams though the glass. Possibly chuck a few glass shards inside to further limit their walking space. Start referring to them as Ian 2. Give them a chocolate bar, add poison beforehand. If they behave well they get to be taken to the shuttle as Ian 2. If not I drag the original Ians corpse and leave them during evac.)

[bandit]

5 minutes seems FAR too weak to even be a deterrent to something that is effectively greytiding.

(Personally now that killing them is banned I've formed a little plan of locking Ian murderers in that little chunk of main near the HoP office. Strip them, build some windows so I can watch them. Toss in wish soup if they complain about being hungry. If they keep complaining I may toss in a glass of nutriment mixed with Cryptoblin. Every now ant then I'd fire some disabler beams though the glass. Possibly chuck a few glass shards inside to further limit their walking space. Start referring to them as Ian 2. Give them a chocolate bar, add poison beforehand. If they behave well they get to be taken to the shuttle as Ian 2. If not I drag the original Ians corpse and leave them during evac.)

BWOINK!

(No, but really, I almost got banned a year or so ago for doing this exact thing.)

[Lord Sexual Waffle]

I'd rather it go to allowing the owner and ONLY the owner to kill someone for killing his pet

[miggles]

Ikky HG and myself talked briefly about this today. I'm in favor of making it a rule 1 violation to repeatedly kill people's pets or possessed animals roaming the station FNR.
HG would prefer to make it a 5 minute brig sentence.
Ikky approves a both.

Since we're sort of at a stalemate we'll go likely go with the current setup which is what HG suggested. Killing pets doesn't make them valid for murder but it is a crime worth a five minute brig timer.

this still doesnt solve the issue of banbaiters getting away scot free after this short period of time in which killing petkillers is bannable
if the rule is overturned in this way, then i suggest that the people who banbaited and got other people banned for killing them should have bans placed on them instead

[miggles]

rule one
exploiting the rules to get other people banned on purpose is being a massive dick

[Timbrewolf]

Who has been banned for killing someone who killed their pet?

If this actually happened already I missed it completely.

[miggles]

i was under the impression that Lord Sexual Waffle was

[Lord Sexual Waffle]

Who has been banned for killing someone who killed their pet?

If this actually happened already I missed it completely.

I have been banned for this

[Timbrewolf]

Was this before or after the wiki was updated? Was it removed or expired?

[Lord Sexual Waffle]

My ban has expired now, I'm not sure when the wiki was updated, but I was originally banned on late saturday

[Gamarr]

Someone steps on my mouse I been dragging around all round, I Will wreck their shit. This is the crux of the matter. A five minute brig timer is TRIVIAL and spitting in the face of the pet owners, because the punishment does not fit the crime. Some little douchebag now gets to shit all over people and their little joy, and the owners are expected to take it and 'trust in security' yet again?

Nope. Nope nope nope.

[Scones]

Someone steps on my mouse I been dragging around all round, I Will wreck their shit.

Because the life of an NPC the spawns in maint is more important that a player
Because a scavenging vermin is more important than a crewmember aboard a fucking plasma research facility

[Loonikus]

Why do people still think that punishment is a binary choice between "They get away scott free" or "KILL THEM AND GIB THE BODY!"?

Just throw them in the brig for 5-10 minutes or beat the tar out of them. Just because you can't get your valids doesn't mean they have to go unpunished.

Ya, maybe killing your pet would be regarded as a decent IC reason to murder someone, but don't bitch when you get thrown in perma for murder.

[Gamarr]

Because the life of an NPC the spawns in maint is more important that a player
Because a scavenging vermin is more important than a crewmember aboard a fucking plasma research facility

Whoa, who said killing? And yes, when that person goes out of his way to do this (I've seen people do 180s in the hall after passing a pet, go back, just to step on/kick someones pet to death), then why would/should you care about said person? Killing is too far imo, but there are multitude of ways to degrade and futz with people other than straight out killing. As much as it is rightly deserved sometimes.

Now, it might get to killing, but then the whole awful thing would not have been instigated if someone didn't want to be a douchebag, would it?

[Timbrewolf]

It's really just the fact that someone is obviously putting in the effort to disrupt someone else's fun because they can.

There's no benefit to killing someone else's pet. Unless we're talking about slimes or you're a traitor with a "steal this meat" objective, there's no actual reason to do it aside from "I want to make that person mad."

Why should we encourage or condone people and behaviors intended to just make other people mad?

Once upon a time I suggested a shock collar for simple mobs. Except it's not a shock collar that zaps the pet when they cross a fence or something, but a shock collar that fries anyone who runs up and punches, kicks, bludgeons, whatever the animal with it equipped. Getting one of those from R&D, putting it on Ian, and then taking him on a walk around the station to see who gets fragged for being an asshole would be fun for once.

[Fragnostic]

Waaaahhh
Sum 1 kilt muh speshul snoflek pet that doesn't ebin have simple command like slime
Totaly valid amirite?! xDDD their being dick tryin ruin my fun
I should kill them/try get them bannu to ruin their fun >:^) l33t troll xXgriffdaddyXx

I've had my in-game pets killed before. It never occurred to me to kill them because they did it. Instead, I RP'd being disgusted and started humiliating them over comms for being a pet killer. They kinda just ran away in shame. Maybe it's just me, but I'm sure that this is just a shitty way for people to be dicks to other people for fun. This is banbaiting. Not killing Ian, but actually pretending like it moved your character so much that you wanted to kill someone. Or even try to rule-lawyer into getting them banned because "they dik to me, kill my doge, rule 1 ban he plz".

[miggles]

holy shit stop with the ad hom
you can make just as many epin maymays about petkillers as you can the validhunters who chase them
take this situation:
you are on a metal deathbox in space. you are at a constant risk of dying for an infinite number of reasons. you may or may not be a clone of your real self and not even know it. your employer is inhumanly horrible. there is a 50/50 chance that you are either psychotic or have severe PTSD due to the constant death of your coworkers and yourself.
but there's a dog. a really cute dog, owned by the head of personnel. you can see him when you get in line to change your ID, and he's always happy and oblivious to all the depressing happenings on the station. one of the few sources of morale among spacemen that isn't alcohol poisoning.
and then someone kills the dog.
you're trying to tell me any spaceman with a functioning human heart wouldn't be really pissed off about that? let alone the owner of the fucking dog. god knows his job sucks without having his little buddy to cheer him up.

[Fragnostic]

That's a great meta-IC deliberation of why it would be acceptable to punish a player over. That's a great way to IC justify killing someone who killed your pet. But this isn't real life. No matter how much you describe it, there are so much more frustrating things in real life that if they were part of the game, you wouldn't play it. I'm sure you don't play Bay very often if you're posting here. There are a ton more realistic features there. But you wouldn't be allowed to kill a dog there because it's not reasonable IC. You would be brigged, even in real life for doing that.
Remember, behind that little sprite of that greyshirt is also a real person. They are more valuable than the nearly inanimate throwaway NPCs like Ian and Runtime. If you actually have to chose between the two, that's indicative of someone who secretly wants to ruin someone else's fun by overreacting to something so pathetic.
I'm also sorry that my shitty ironic memery raised your blood pressure, but that was just my way of describing a griefing pet killer and a banbaiter.
As to your first claim, I was speaking generally, so I'm not sure how I attacked anyone. Also, pointing out logical fallacies is actually ad hom. But even if I did, that'd be against the board rules. If someone were to take this personally, it's probably because they felt it was directed at them. Just to be clear, I wasn't talking about you until this post, Miggles.

But before this devolves into a competition of "name that fallacy" in order to detract(because pointing out fallacies to argue isn't a fallacy :^]) from another claim, all I'm trying to say is that if we want to go all IC about it, it should be a 8 minute brig sentence, but not a bannu and no beatings in my opinion.

[mrpain]

In real life, if someone killed your dog, and you drove around, following them around town, and arrived at their house and killed them, you would be charged with murder.

If you killed someone while they were in the act of killing or harming your pet while they were on your property, this would probably be seen as an act of self or home defense. Then again, I live in glorious America.

Protecting your property (I.E. your pet) while it is within your department should be considered self defense other space law, and not an OOC issue.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

BRB giving ian 10,000 HP and making Runtime tear your skin off when attacked

[Screemonster]

"I like going out of my way to do things that take me an instant to achieve, serve no purpose but to annoy other players, and often can't be reversed without mad work or admin intervention"

"that's kinda dickish, maybe you shouldn't be doing that as a nonantag"

"LITERALLY HITLER CANCER THAT IS KILLING TGSTATION MUH FREEDOMS"



No matter what way you spin it, no matter how people dodge back and forth over what an appropriate IC action/reaction would be, it's still being a dick.
You know what the phrase "It's what my character would do" means when you use it to justify IC actions that OOCly piss people off? It means "I, the player, am a massive dick."

[Malkevin]

Remember, behind that little sprite of that greyshirt is also a real person. They are more valuable than the nearly inanimate throwaway NPCs like Ian and Runtime. If you actually have to chose between the two, that's indicative of someone who secretly wants to ruin someone else's fun by overreacting to something so pathetic.

A real person thats laughing behind their acne ridden face as their greasy cheto covered fingers press the button that kills the cartoon dog, they're laughing because they know they're doing something that'll annoy people.

That person is a cunt.
Cunts only exist to get fucked.

Don't cry to the hug-box-mins because you got fucked for being a cunt.

[Lord Sexual Waffle]

The old rule wasn't good and this new one is even worse. They need to change something about it since it just punishes victims of people being douches.