Trialmin review: Mr. Alphonzo

[CreationPro]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Except that in addition to bringing that up he also responded to your initial criticism of his ability to take feedback, which you're ignoring in favor of being offended

Not offended lol. My criticism was he doesn't take feedback well. He argued about it, fairly or not, and shit on my events at the same time, kind of proving me right in that respect.

this thread is going too deep

Not all criticism is good criticism, he's filtering it.
He took the music criticism well and took the memery down a notch. This event criticism seems a little overly strict and Alphonzo's very defensive. It doesn't help that Sticky's been guilty of facerolling on the admin panel in the past, either.

[Stickymayhem]

"My events are better than yours" isn't good admin feedback to begin with and he has every right to shit on you for it instead of just "taking the feedback well." Nothing against you sticky, but come on now. Cobby's post sums it up well

Where did I say that once.

In fact, where did I even criticise his events beyond one example.

"I haven't seen any decent events" means what it means. I personally, have not seen any decent events. I have explained this three times now.

You are taking me well out of context here. That was the least of my concern.

[BeeSting12]

Also last night a player asked a question about where something was, alphonzo just tele'd him there. I called him out on it, telling him it's funner for the players to tell them where it is so they learn something and he said this is what he does every time. He was very dismissive about the criticism in asay as well saying something like "cry some more".

whats worse is the player wasn't even asking where that place was, he was asking someone to specify it was that place in an event announcement. alphonzo just tele'd him there without even asking in ahelps. i guess it's one thing to just tele a player there, even if its a bit spoonfeedy, but he didnt even ask and ended up making the player unhappy.

[MrAlphonzo]

Also last night a player asked a question about where something was, alphonzo just tele'd him there. I called him out on it, telling him it's funner for the players to tell them where it is so they learn something and he said this is what he does every time. He was very dismissive about the criticism in asay as well saying something like "cry some more".

whats worse is the player wasn't even asking where that place was, he was asking someone to specify it was that place in an event announcement. alphonzo just tele'd him there without even asking in ahelps. i guess it's one thing to just tele a player there, even if its a bit spoonfeedy, but he didnt even ask and ended up making the player unhappy.

The ahelp read

"Can you specify where [insert location] is?"
"Here, let me take you there"
"Fuck I meant talk about where it is in an announcement, I know where it is"
"Oh okay my bad, I misunderstood your ticket"

Fucking indict me already, I'm a war criminal.

It wasn't even a teleport, it was a throw in the direction of where I thought they wanted to go.

[BeeSting12]

That much was an accident and was whatever. My issue was you teleporting the player without asking and then being very dismissive about any criticism. Spoonfeeding players stuff like that isn't fun for them.

[The_Dreamweaver]

I've seen him admin before. That is all.

[oranges]

why is my post the only actionable criticism and the rest is just arguing about stupid shit nobody cares about.

alphonzo wasn't even man enough to address my post.

[Ayy Lemoh]

why is my post the only actionable criticism and the rest is just arguing about stupid shit nobody cares about.

alphonzo wasn't even man enough to address my post.

oranges, it's a cover up so that when he gets admin, he can finally ban haku from voice chat because haku once called his waifu shit.

Uh, Alphonzo is alright. I don't really know what he does adminwise.

Arguing about events seems a bit dumb if it's two people who really like doing events. It's just a contest of my style is better at that point.

[MrAlphonzo]

why is my post the only actionable criticism and the rest is just arguing about stupid shit nobody cares about.

alphonzo wasn't even man enough to address my post.

I wanted to avoid naming names and unnecessarily digging up the grave of something we already discussed and where I was dogpiled by people who stubbornly refused to even consider my perspective on the issue.

Your gross oversimplification of "wanted to blacklist him for spending too much time in voice chat" is purposefully dishonest. That was only one cherrypicked example of other obsessive behaviors he was displaying over a long period of time.

I, along with multiple other administrators at the time, had noticed he had an unhealthy obsession with the game and the community as a whole. Several admins felt a little uneasy that someone was spending so much time with a community that they had been permanently banned from. I approached the head administrators, suggesting that he should take a short break from the community, but was informed that the only real way to give someone a break from the community was using the blacklist system.

I'm going to say this again, because ever since it happened, you have been ignoring it on purpose.

I. was. told. it. was. the. only. option.
I never intended it to be more than a week or two, and if I was so certain of my judgement I would not have discussed it with the rest of the administrators.

One more time, to hammer it home.

Only option.

My suggestion was intended to be a short break.

I followed the instructions I was given by a head admin. It was discussed, I got a ruling, we moved on.
I was not alone in my concerns, felt the need to discuss it with others, and the issue was settled.

Another reason I wanted to avoid this is to not discuss what happened afterwards, as that risks the privacy of an unspecified player.

But I'll leave it at this, as anyone familiar with what happened will understand what I mean.

I told you so.

[Ayy Lemoh]

I, along with multiple other administrators at the time, had noticed he had an unhealthy obsession with the game and the community as a whole. Several admins felt a little uneasy that someone was spending so much time with a community that they had been permanently banned from.

He isn't even Jmad tier and you're telling me that some of adminbus, plus you, felt he should've been punished for liking this place? A man who mainly uses discord and is honestly not an asshole?

What a fucking joke.

[Lazengann]

I. was. told. it. was. the. only. option.
I never intended it to be more than a week or two, and if I was so certain of my judgement I would not have discussed it with the rest of the administrators.

...

My suggestion was intended to be a short break.

You advocated for him to be blacklisted. The word "break" was only used after everyone called you a fucking moron for it.

[subject217]

Not all criticism is good criticism, he's filtering it.
He took the music criticism well and took the memery down a notch. This event criticism seems a little overly strict and Alphonzo's very defensive. It doesn't help that Sticky's been guilty of facerolling on the admin panel in the past, either.

Reducing how he takes criticism in adminbus to some dumb bullshit about a stupid event and his midi spam is asinine. He barely took the """""""""music criticism"""""""""" after everyone involved told him collectively to stop midi spamming and still plays shit midis just at a considerably slower rate. He really took that criticism well. It's completely besides the point, because the issue is that you can't even discuss a ban he made with him in a remotely critical way without him accusing you of mindlessly defending a player and hating him for no reason.

My suggestion was intended to be a short break.

This is bullshit and you know it. Do you want me to go grab your exact words from the admin forum and show them to you?

[MrAlphonzo]

I. was. told. it. was. the. only. option.
I never intended it to be more than a week or two, and if I was so certain of my judgement I would not have discussed it with the rest of the administrators.

...

My suggestion was intended to be a short break.

You advocated for him to be blacklisted. The word "break" was only used after everyone called you a fucking moron for it.

Post one single instance where I said I intended it to be permanent.

I'd like to see you try.

[Lazengann]

For you ESL fellows, if you have your dog put down, it means he's dead. Permanently.

[Ayy Lemoh]

For you ESL fellows, if you have your dog put down, it means he's dead. Permanently.

Alphonzo, are you fucking autistic? Tell us what he did in voice chat. I'm really curious. Haku doesn't even use a mic so all of his evil acts are logged.

I've never seen him sexually harass someone, yell at someone, say something racist or anti-semitic, act rude, etc. Haku doesn't even frequent the forums, I believe. He just talks and plays with his friends. The guy has never been a fucking asshole in my experience. You wanna know what he did? He acted dumb. He was permabanned for metagaming and ban evaded. You know what the blacklist is for? Doxxes, sexual harassment, R E P E A T E D ban evasion, being really toxic, etc. You don't get fucking blacklisted because the admins think you're young. You don't get fucking isolated because you like knowing whether the server is online or not despite being banned. If you think he's 5 years old then you permaban him and say 'appeal when you're 18'. Not this shit.

The AUDACITY of Haku daring to communicate and interact with people in a community he liked! How dare he! Fucker should be gulagged, crucified, and double checked for extra faggotry.

-1 for Alphonzo unless he has some really good reason like Haku is a serial murderer rapist irl or some shit otherwise fuck you for acting like a snake bastard piece of shit. You're doing something that makes people unironically support the belief that there's a fucking admin conspiracy out to get them.

Also, Citrusgender, it says you asked him to make that thread. If you supported this then you're more of a rat bastard than I thought you were already.

[CitrusGender]

Also, Citrusgender, it says you asked him to make that thread. If you supported this then you're more of a rat bastard than I thought you were already.

hi jerry
I am currently listening to everyone in this thread's concerns equally.

edit: I asked him to make it because he asked me directly to do it. I hold no opinion on the matter. If anything, I was against the matter but I didn't know how the rest of the admins felt.

[MrAlphonzo]

snip

This is getting old, really really fast.
First of all, I don't see "permanent" anywhere in there. Anywhere.
While discussing this, inside the bus, before and after I was dogpiled I was CRYSTAL CLEAR that I believed a blacklist to be overkill.
Again.
My story was consistent before "everyone called me a fucking moron", and afterwards.

What you have posted is an INCREDIBLY small cherrypicked portion of a conversation that went on for post after post after post, on the admin forums and inside the bus.

Here's a question for you.
If I was so vehemently determined to permanently community ban them, why would I even mention this was presented as my only option? If I wanted him gone, forever, why would I even personally object to being forced to use the blacklist? How would that help me in any way, shape, or form?

I'd like you to answer this question for me.

Ontop of this, let's simplify my perspective, exponentially.

"Hello fellow administrators, I am worried about this player. I believe they have an unhealthy obsession with the community, and it is growing worse. Should we take action to help them out with this issue so that they can contribute to the community positively, rather than negatively?"
"Nah."
"Okay, have a nice day."

It was settled. I did not bring it up again. I did not ask the head admins to reconsider.

Even when Haku was causing trouble, again something I do not want to go into specifics out of respect to certain people involved, I was clear that I still did not want him blacklisted or permanently banned from the community.

I have been sitting idly by and being harassed with this issue, at every oppurtunity, and I have grown sick and tired of it.
I told you I did not want for it to be a blacklist, and I did not intend for it to be permanent.

What more do you want from me?
For what purpose did you dig this up?
What are you trying to get out of this, other than to try and provoke me?

And most importantly.

Me, of all people.

Do I really give the impression that I backpedal that easily?

[oranges]

you don't make a thread like that unless you mean it

[Doctor Pork]

Yeah I forgot about all that shit with Haku. That was pretty fucked.

[Ayy Lemoh]

"Hello fellow administrators, I am worried about this player. I believe they have an unhealthy obsession with the community, and it is growing worse. Should we take action to help them out with this issue so that they can contribute to the community positively, rather than negatively?"
"Nah."
"Okay, have a nice day."

How the fuck was it gonna be more positive? You kick him out of the club house. 50/50 chance on whether he'll improve or think we're shitlords.

Listen, even if you're telling the 100% truth that he should just have a short break from the community and blacklist was overkill, I still think you're dumb. Haku did nothing to deserve the thought of banning them temporarily from the ENTIRE community. He was already punished for his actual crimes. I still just think you just wanted to punish him for no good reason. During my trialmin review, one major point was me banning sawrge however even if people disagreed with it, there was a possible argument to be had where you can go 'yeah, he deserves being punished in some sort of way.' I just don't see the same here or in that blacklist post besides bad reasons.

edit: I asked him to make it because he asked me directly to do it. I hold no opinion on the matter. If anything, I was against the matter but I didn't know how the rest of the admins felt.

Alright. Thanks for clarifying. Also glad I added this quote since I didn't see that last sentence before writing this.

EDIT: fixed 'kicked'. Haku was never kicked or banned because of this.

[obscolene]

mfw reading this thread

Sorry the Alphonso episode will not be airing this season

[Lazengann]

For what purpose did you dig this up?
What are you trying to get out of this, other than to try and provoke me?

Post one single instance where I said I intended it to be permanent.

I'd like to see you try.

[Doritos]

Imagine failing your admin trial in 2018.

[Ayy Lemoh]

Imagine failing your admin trial in 2018.

Trial extensions exist.

You haven't failed until two headmins say 'no' really.

[MrAlphonzo]

For what purpose did you dig this up?
What are you trying to get out of this, other than to try and provoke me?

Post one single instance where I said I intended it to be permanent.

I'd like to see you try.

I still don't see "permanent".

I'm going to leave it at this, since this is playing out exactly as before.
I noticed a player that was obsessed with a community they were permanently banned from. Out of concern, I thought the best course of action would be to give them a break so they could find other things to focus their time on.

Unsure of my judgement myself, I spoke to multiple administrators who I learned had the same concerns. Still uncertain, I spoke to a head administrator and asked them for their thoughts. I learned, that the only real way to do this, was via the blacklist. So, I made a thread to discuss it with the other administrators. I made it clear to everyone involved that it was intended to be short and temporary, and I myself did not want to blacklist them. After some deliberation, a decision was made. It wasn't really our job to do these sorts of things, I accepted the ruling, and moved on.

I, myself, have had close friends an close family members deal with these same worsening obsessions, that affected them negatively over time. Eventually, I managed to help them work through it. So I guess you could say personal experience got involved in my decision making. I found the similarity to what I had seen before to have been uncanny.

But now, I'm just tired of trying to get people who won't listen to understand my perspective. I'm going to await a ruling.

[CreationPro]

Not all criticism is good criticism, he's filtering it.
He took the music criticism well and took the memery down a notch. This event criticism seems a little overly strict and Alphonzo's very defensive. It doesn't help that Sticky's been guilty of facerolling on the admin panel in the past, either.

Reducing how he takes criticism in adminbus to some dumb bullshit about a stupid event and his midi spam is asinine. He barely took the """""""""music criticism"""""""""" after everyone involved told him collectively to stop midi spamming and still plays shit midis just at a considerably slower rate. He really took that criticism well. It's completely besides the point, because the issue is that you can't even discuss a ban he made with him in a remotely critical way without him accusing you of mindlessly defending a player and hating him for no reason.

My suggestion was intended to be a short break.

This is bullshit and you know it. Do you want me to go grab your exact words from the admin forum and show them to you?

My comment was in regards to the sticky-Alphonzo button mashing feedback, that was pretty small and disputable.

Unfortunately, I don't know how the exchanges go in adminbus so I'll just take your word for it and assume he didn't take the midi criticism well.

The haku situation, on the other hand, seems pretty bad. "Put down" definitely sounds like a permanent removal. Not sure whether it's a poor choice of words or it was exactly what was implied.

[Cobby]

The haku things was odd but unlike most discussions in adminbus it was posted, everyone agreed to varying levels that yes it was odd for someone to do all that hooplah but no we don't really take it upon ourselves to manage that, and not much else was said about it.

Has the Haku thing literally been brought up between now and the threads conception, barring maybe the unban appeal where someone went "heh, remember when alphonzo did that?"? Compared to some of the other decisions and drama we've had in the last headminship from actual gameadmins or hell even the goof thing from headmins, that's been extremely tame and well handled afterwards.

[subject217]

Has the Haku thing literally been brought up between now and the threads conception

Yeah, multiple times. Have you ever tried to talk to Alphonzo about anything he's done in the past 2 months? This isn't coming out of nowhere.

Edit: Additionally, you can see by the backpedaling alone in this thread exactly what I'm talking about. This short break stuff was made up on the spot, so he doesn't have to admit he was wrong.

[Cobby]

When I talk to alphonzo it's to talk about epic memes/games/current admin stuff, not mistakes he made months ago that I've already told him I don't agree with his outlook on and where he hasn't done anything similar since.

[MrAlphonzo]

This short break stuff was made up on the spot, so he doesn't have to admit he was wrong.

Spoiler:

This short break stuff was made up on the spot

Spoiler:

on the spot

Spoiler:

https://i.imgur.com/REqQ7OC.png

the spot

Really makes you think.

It is awfully convenient how I've been saying the exact same thing for months, but now that my review has come up, you have suddenly felt the need of accusing me of "backpedaling".

[subject217]

Nice adminbus leak. Doesn't seem short to me. Not buying that you suddenly walked into that because you happened to use the break terminology.

[PKPenguin321]

Nice adminbus leak.

lol

[iksyp]

I noticed a player that was obsessed with a community they were permanently banned from.

permabanned in game does not mean you're permabanned from the community

[Ayy Lemoh]

I noticed a player that was obsessed with a community they were permanently banned from.

permabanned in game does not mean you're permabanned from the community

Yeah.

If Haku was truly addicted to just /tg/station 13 then being banned from the server would be enough to stop him which he already was. At that point, all that's left is interacting with people on forums and discord. You would eventually have to get over it if you aren't even able to play.

If someone was really addicted to ss13 and it was believed that they should be forced to stop their addiction then they would have to just be banned from every server. It wouldn't be possible without EVERY server owner being in host chat and working together.

[Qbmax32]

Nice adminbus leak.

lol

lol

[Doctor Pork]

Nice adminbus leak.

lol

lol

lol

[obscolene]

Nice adminbus leak.

lol

lol

lol

erderby

[MortoSasye]

Besides this Haku topic, as a player i consider they're a good admin and should be promoted or at least have an extended trialminship.

Everyone makes mistakes, and the important thing is learning about them. (I'm aware i just stuck my hand on fire but i needed to say this)

[Cobby]

I noticed a player that was obsessed with a community they were permanently banned from.

permabanned in game does not mean you're permabanned from the community

Yeah.

If Haku was truly addicted to just /tg/station 13 then being banned from the server would be enough to stop him which he already was. At that point, all that's left is interacting with people on forums and discord. You would eventually have to get over it if you aren't even able to play.

If someone was really addicted to ss13 and it was believed that they should be forced to stop their addiction then they would have to just be banned from every server. It wouldn't be possible without EVERY server owner being in host chat and working together.

He was explaining what he (erroneously) thought at the time, not what he thinks now.

The haku thing is no longer a thing and hasn’t been until now.

[Stickymayhem]

Besides this Haku topic, as a player i consider they're a good admin and should be promoted or at least have an extended trialminship.

Everyone makes mistakes, and the important thing is learning about them. (I'm aware i just stuck my hand on fire but i needed to say this)

The main criticism here is that he doesn't. Or at least, he doesn't until the very last moment when consequences are suddenly apparent.

[Owegno]

I figured I'd just pop in to say that he did pm me on August 10th to ask for feedback actually. He seemed to take what I told him seriously and I haven't noticed the issues that I brought up happen since. So he did at least time the criticism I gave him and tried to improve.

[subject217]

I'll mention something here for posterity. I think it was the first time I actually criticized Alphonzo for this, he told me that he was great at taking feedback and during his first trialminship he asked all 3 head admins at the time for feedback. It seems to me that the only opinions on this matter that Alphonzo would value would be the people who have the authority to deadmin him, and everyone else is universally told to fuck off.

[wubli]

Not a bad admin, but has an awful attitude when confronted. He should definitely acknowledge that we are a team, instead of just disregarding anything we say. I just want him to stop acting with smugness even when proven wrong.
And this is even more biased because it's my own views on it, but: there was a situation in which he spawned revs in a traitor round, when one of the few traitors was the only head. I did not agree with him messing with the game mode when it specifically got one person killed. He should be more careful when making events.

For you, Alphonzo: I don't care about your midis or whatever and I'm glad you at least take headmin's opinion, but the rest of us can provide good advice too. Stop trying so hard to be right, you aren't inherently evil, but I'd really like to feel the tiniest bit appreciated as a fellow admin when I'm trying to sort things out by talking.

Spoiler:

Tell me if I got it wrong, but I remember you once nuked a round with traitors after joking around with buttons because you forgot there were another antags - although we quickly solved it by just giving out tokens and no one was really mad. Am I getting this wrong? Anyways, my point with this is: be careful.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

make him admin but remove every botton except admin pm and ban and ooc

[obscolene]

make him admin but remove every botton except admin pm and ban and ooc

deja vu

[Ayy Lemoh]

make him admin but remove every botton except admin pm and ban and ooc

sadly admins actually need the other buttons.

sometimes an issue can't be solved by bans but it can be solved by var-editing, deleting, and spawning stuff.

[Rustledjimm]

This thread got pretty heated at times. There are some concerns among both outgoing and incoming headmins that have been brought up.

The trial will be extended for a 1-2 month period.