/tg/Station 13

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SpaceInaba wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:Remember back when I said we can just have 3 engines and the engineers pick which one they set up in an empty room

Why haven't we done this yet

I like this idea
supermatter takes the longest to set up but it's also arguably the safest
tesla and singulo won't take that long but are more dangerous
gives you some freedom to choose and also gives me a longer buffer before I run around the station waiting for things to blow up

people will likely just default to the fastest option every time so they can leave engineering and go do whatever it is engineers do now that isn't fixing breaches lol

ShadowDimentio wrote:Remember back when I said we can just have 3 engines and the engineers pick which one they set up in an empty room

Why haven't we done this yet

you want to code a voting system that will load the engine in after roundstart without being the worst disaster in the world and you can feel free to do that and PR it.

Qbopper wrote:

SpaceInaba wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:Remember back when I said we can just have 3 engines and the engineers pick which one they set up in an empty room

Why haven't we done this yet

I like this idea
supermatter takes the longest to set up but it's also arguably the safest
tesla and singulo won't take that long but are more dangerous
gives you some freedom to choose and also gives me a longer buffer before I run around the station waiting for things to blow up

people will likely just default to the fastest option every time so they can leave engineering and go do whatever it is engineers do now that isn't fixing breaches lol

b-but

Qbopper wrote:people will likely just default to the fastest option every time so they can leave engineering and go do whatever it is engineers do now that isn't fixing breaches lol

Then let them

Fuck the SM, it deserves to be unused.

kevinz000 wrote:you want to code a voting system that will load the engine in after roundstart without being the worst disaster in the world and you can feel free to do that and PR it.

The voting system is putting setup equipment for all 3 in secure storage and whichever the engineers set up in their empty engine room is the engine

this also allows super funny experiments where we run all three engines at once

ShadowDimentio wrote:

kevinz000 wrote:you want to code a voting system that will load the engine in after roundstart without being the worst disaster in the world and you can feel free to do that and PR it.

The voting system is putting setup equipment for all 3 in secure storage and whichever the engineers set up in their empty engine room is the engine

It would take an entire round to set up a supermatter containment by hand

Kor wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:

kevinz000 wrote:you want to code a voting system that will load the engine in after roundstart without being the worst disaster in the world and you can feel free to do that and PR it.

The voting system is putting setup equipment for all 3 in secure storage and whichever the engineers set up in their empty engine room is the engine

It would take an entire round to set up a supermatter containment by hand

when I get home I'm gonna build one and time it

Kor wrote:It would take an entire round to set up a supermatter containment by hand

YES, MY GENIUS PLOT TO EFFECTIVELY REMOVE THE SM COMES INTO PLACE! MUAHAHAHAHA!

The singulo might be easier for antags to release, but at least it doesnt usually blow up 15 minutes into an extended round because the people who set it up made a mistake and didn't notice until it was way too late. The SM on the other hand ...

Honestly my biggest problem with the SM is that it fucking shouts that it's going critical for however long it takes

If someone who knows what they're doing fucked it up, it's like 20 seconds of alerts and then singuloose

If it was just accidental it's 30 minutes of it spamming chat until someone gets off their ass to fix it/actually hacks through the doors because surprise surprise engineering is staffed by retards this round again

EagleWiz wrote:The singulo might be easier for antags to release, but at least it doesnt usually blow up 15 minutes into an extended round because the people who set it up made a mistake and didn't notice until it was way too late. The SM on the other hand ...

What? The tesla/singulo got released roundstart constantly after an engineer messed something up. They caused more minimum time shuttle calls than antags did.

TribeOfBeavers wrote:

EagleWiz wrote:The singulo might be easier for antags to release, but at least it doesnt usually blow up 15 minutes into an extended round because the people who set it up made a mistake and didn't notice until it was way too late. The SM on the other hand ...

What? The tesla/singulo got released roundstart constantly after an engineer messed something up. They caused more minimum time shuttle calls than antags did.

i'm genuinely unsure if this is people who didn't play when sing/tesla were the roundstart engine or if this is some kind of rose tinted nostalgia thing because yeah

sing getting released during a round and forcing dramatic escapes where you have to jump across half the map that's been decimated = cool

roundstart sing getting released because someone can't follow instructions = swipe for red and semi-afk until you can play the game again

Here's a radical idea: create variants of each map with different engine, and then just randomize which is gonna be played.

So why do people don't like the supermatter?

Inability to become not bad

Anonmare wrote:Inability to become not bad

And the constructive feedback award goes to:

I just get sick of setting up the same engine over and over and over and over again, I dont have any issues with the sm I just like a change of pace every once in a while

CPTANT wrote:

Anonmare wrote:Inability to become not bad

And the constructive feedback award goes to:

Nobody in this thread

I don't know what you guys have been smoking but the SM explodes every other round which results in a shuttle call. Infact, I'd say the SM is causing more shuttle calls than the singulo did because people don't know how to use it still, and the Singulo always had the off chance that it would just simply leave the z-level. It's a piece of shit that doesn't even match any science trope we could have used instead. Fusion,micro singularity,nuclear,anti-matter any of those could have been used instead of some yellow glowing crystal with no backstory of substance.


Making a separate engine per map isn't going to solve anything as well. The majority of players have become casual babies who enjoy the ease,extra materials,and space of meta than to cramp paranoid laden death trap that is box. Who would have guessed that our player base would once again rather shoot itself in the foot with convenience than have a source of adversity.

Sorry if i don't like spending 15 minutes in xenobiology and then hear ";SINGULOOSE" on the radio and feeling like i wasted my time for nothing, every other round, because someone thought that loosing the singulo was a real fun and original idea.
At least the SM only explodes engineering and the area around it if not actively sabotaged, so the round can go on without having the singulo of damocles over everyone's head.

And really, a huge ball of death destroying everything is fun, but as a roundstart engine it gets stale way, way too soon. If you only see a singulo once every x rounds it gets that "oh shit" factor instead of a "not a fucking singuloose again".
That also goes for the SM, being honest; feeling reality distorting has, like the singulo, become another "not again", instead of something worrying. I just feel like engines shouldn't be huge catalysts of destruction until A: It's been a long time into the round or B: it's being sabotaged to do so.

I wish it were better documented so I know what to do when all the pumps are fine, I cant find any issue with the current mix, temperature is fine, yet the fuckin thing is still on fire

yes

Are there stats on engine failure anywhere? I'd believe that new engineers manage to mess up a singularity setup once or twice before figuring it out, but I've seen veteran non-traitor engis manage to mess up a SM setup on a number of occasions.The singulo has a few ways it can fail, but the SM can go wrong in at least half a dozen ways, and attempts to fix it frequently make it worse.

Coding, styles of engineering and mappers actually comitting to it.

SpaceInaba wrote:I wish it were better documented so I know what to do when all the pumps are fine, I cant find any issue with the current mix, temperature is fine, yet the fuckin thing is still on fire

being on fire doesn't neccessarily mean it's in danger.

Hell I deliberately run warm engines sometimes.

Lumbermancer wrote:Here's a radical idea: create variants of each map with different engine, and then just randomize which is gonna be played.

This is actually brilliant

Unless someone adds gas interaction for the single somehow the sm has a far higher skill ceiling, all the singulo ever was at the height of craziness was fancy multi singulo set ups done in non engineering departments.

the skill ceiling isnt really relevant when the basic setup gives all the power you ever need

BeeSting12 wrote:the skill ceiling isnt really relevant when the basic setup gives all the power you ever need

Which is why I said to make basic delams turn catastrophic (spawn a singulo/tesla), then make setups with more complex gasses only explode, so that more complex engines actually have the reward of being safer rather than it being the other way around like it is now

1. I am very like idea of supermatter as concept. Even if it haven't backstory,it deserves to have one.
Imagine so unusual material,which:
A. Everything,what touched it becomes high energy partivles and strange violet gas(plasma).
B. It produces gas,which doesn't made of atoms. But still acts like gas.
C. It can interfere with matter of your mind. You'll get hallucinations from bare look at this thing. And if you'll touch it with some mind based superpower,your brain will turn into ash.
D.If it delaminates, distorts reality itself.
E. It could emit anomalies and lightnings when overheated.
2. It is good,because you can make ridicolous reactor schemes. Like tesla rods,powered from overheated SM.Plus turbine,powered from plasma.
It just needs TEG. To use heat properly.
3. Still I'd like to see other reactors in game. Rust and antimatter too.
4.I think,that either singulo and supermatter should be reworked. A little or hard.
Singulo could use small singularity.with special gravitational generators to keep it at place.
To make it go loose, you need at first to overfeed singulo, then turn all machinery off.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

BeeSting12 wrote:the skill ceiling isnt really relevant when the basic setup gives all the power you ever need

Which is why I said to make basic delams turn catastrophic (spawn a singulo/tesla), then make setups with more complex gasses only explode, so that more complex engines actually have the reward of being safer rather than it being the other way around like it is now

Having the round be over because of a newbie/lazy engineer or a speedrunning traitor isn't fun and it's always the same.
Instead, make the engine passively grow more powerful/dangerous/unstable over time, so if it blows up in the first five minutes it fizzles and at worst you need a new power source, but 40-50 minutes in it it'll be able to wreck the station if loose/destabilized. Traitors could speed it up by increasing the PA or using a special gas mix if they want it earlier.

pr it and see how people respond

The iffy:
1) A vast, vast majority of engineers don't even understand it - which results in many failed setups or outright avoidance in setting it up - let alone repair it.

2) Any serious sabotage effort is all but impossible to repair since the room becomes a ridiculous mess of plasma fire, hostile slimes, and 500 SM bolts firing every second.


However #2 isn't even unique to the SM, serious sabotage to the Singularity/Tesla would simply have it released in an even shorter timeframe.

However it's not "round ending" unless it releases one of the aforementioned energy balls. People who call the shuttle because the SM blew are typically just looking for an excuse to GTFO. The station would honestly be 100% more stable and secure if you just deleted atmos and engineering and just had a 1-slot job called "Solar engineer". Destroying the SM is all but meaningless, the explosion radius doesnt significantly effect any other department and the station can easily be powered off of solars and science - you dont need SMES to power the station they're just giant backup batteries (that are often pointless since the only way the SM stops providing power is if it blows which typically take out the SMES anyway).

you know now that I think about it, when the SM blows generally it only destroys engineering so just fix engineering and have cargo order a tesla or singulo and you can just continue the round by setting it up in the newly made hole

SpaceInaba wrote:you know now that I think about it, when the SM blows generally it only destroys engineering so just fix engineering and have cargo order a tesla or singulo and you can just continue the round by setting it up in the newly made hole

the odds of anyone ever staying once the engine explodes is near zero though

Qbopper wrote:

SpaceInaba wrote:you know now that I think about it, when the SM blows generally it only destroys engineering so just fix engineering and have cargo order a tesla or singulo and you can just continue the round by setting it up in the newly made hole

the odds of anyone ever staying once the engine explodes is near zero though

solution: kill everybody other than you so nobody calls it
realistically you could try and argue with the heads of staff that you can fix it if you are CE since
1) you can recall it
2) you can fix it
3) solars can provide power in the mean time
will this fail? depends on how fast you can fix stuff

SpaceInaba wrote:solution: kill everybody other than you so nobody calls it
realistically you could try and argue with the heads of staff that you can fix it if you are CE since
1) you can recall it
2) you can fix it
3) solars can provide power in the mean time
will this fail? depends on how fast you can fix stuff

Good fucking luck actually conducting any substantial repairs while playing shuttle pingpong at the same time, even without security and the other heads coming to put your head on a pike by the second recall.

RandomMarine wrote:

SpaceInaba wrote:solution: kill everybody other than you so nobody calls it
realistically you could try and argue with the heads of staff that you can fix it if you are CE since
1) you can recall it
2) you can fix it
3) solars can provide power in the mean time
will this fail? depends on how fast you can fix stuff

Good fucking luck actually conducting any substantial repairs while playing shuttle pingpong at the same time, even without security and the other heads coming to put your head on a pike by the second recall.

I've accomplished it a handful of times so it's not impossible, it depends on how autistic the other heads are because they wanna re antag roll

Lumbermancer wrote:Here's a radical idea: create variants of each map with different engine, and then just randomize which is gonna be played.

don't even need that, just an empty space, then use the maploader to load each engine room configuration in like a ruin

Ligga I don't know how ss13 works. If that's the case, why don't we have randomized Puzzle Station yet.

I too miss the singulo.

Someone code in maps that rng pick an engine at round start and then populate engineering with said engine on roundstart. Best solution

I like this idea.

Lumbermancer wrote:Ligga I don't know how ss13 works. If that's the case, why don't we have randomized Puzzle Station yet.

Because you'd have to program a good enough system to generate a station, and unless you plan on trying to make a generator that generates a station from scratch you'll also have to do a lot of mapping constrained by whatever esoteric requirements your station generation system requires.

XDTM wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

BeeSting12 wrote:the skill ceiling isnt really relevant when the basic setup gives all the power you ever need

Which is why I said to make basic delams turn catastrophic (spawn a singulo/tesla), then make setups with more complex gasses only explode, so that more complex engines actually have the reward of being safer rather than it being the other way around like it is now

Having the round be over because of a newbie/lazy engineer or a speedrunning traitor isn't fun and it's always the same.

9 times out of 10 if the SM explodes the round is basically over anyways. I don't get the fuss around why what it delaminates into matters beyond what's cooler. If the round is fucked and ending anyways why not end it with something cool like a singulo or tesla instead of a gay explosion

SM exploding = shuttle call only because of laziness and general unwillingness of engineers to do their jobs and others to let them. Just patch the breach and wire solars, easy. The SM can already become an incredibly devastating tesla or singulo if the saboteur goes to any effort whatsoever rather than making the barest possible tweak and hoping (knowing) that the engineering team will just let it burn.

SpaceManiac wrote:SM exploding = shuttle call only because of laziness and general unwillingness of engineers to do their jobs and others to let them.

Yes thanks for confirming what I said

ShadowDimentio wrote:Remember back when I said we can just have 3 engines and the engineers pick which one they set up in an empty room

I quite like this idea, given that maybe some tools are added or things like creating the components for each engine are readily available, maybe ordered via cargo as a voucher sorta deal. Having a less than ideal source of power such as a generator in the meantime that can allow for the time needed to construct the engine before the station runs out of power would probably be a good idea.

Continuing on the actual power amount issue, something to do with excess power above the easy to hit amounts needed to run the station would be great as well, convert them into credits or crafting machines that fabricate items at a huge power cost or something, or power scaling weapons that become dangerously powerful given enough juice... like a rail gun, or a lightning cannon, or something ridiculous. Having a continuing project for engineers would greatly encourage people to play the role I think, because while I enjoy it, after setting up power there generally isn't much to do, as by the time you get started on repairing station damage, people usually declare it not worthy to invest time in, and call the shuttle instead.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

SpaceManiac wrote:SM exploding = shuttle call only because of laziness and general unwillingness of engineers to do their jobs and others to let them.

Yes thanks for confirming what I said

Fund this then.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14623

i miss the singulo

Setting up the SME is super fucking boring, you just walk around in your safe area and turn on some pumps and filters. Fixing that thing is super easy too, unless someone managed to steal all the hardsuits, radsuits, insulateds and RPD.

TBH I could do without having it screech on comms as soon as it loses a tiny bit of integrity.