/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I would support Robustin's PR to fix this. It's pretty dumb that a revolver shot to the chest bleeds you out superfast and getting sliced up everywhere doesn't take as long

confused rock wrote:again, doctors are incredibly shitty and I haven't had a positive experience with them in ages (I have with assistant surgeons though and rarely robomen)

We get it. You're butthurt about medbay players.

We get it. You're butthurt about lowpop murderboners.

It's a Baymed feature, of course it's unintuitive, painful and awful.

Beg the chef to grind some metal and drink it. cures blood-loss. or go to maint surgery which typically has blood-packs.

Get good

I too find blood loss annoying

But just annoying, it's merely a hurdle

I wouldn't shed a tear if it was gone though, I've had more than one occasion with incompetent doctors that can't fix it
And those occasions shouldn't happen

But that's really my only complaint

Takeguru wrote:I've had more than one occasion with incompetent doctors that can't fix it
And those occasions shouldn't happen

What did he mean by this?

If you can't shoot up with epinephrine and then find blood or iron, both of which aren't too hard to find, you're pretty bad.

I think Robustin's blood loss PR will solve most of this but honestly it looks like an "i ded" thread and then a "everyone but me and my metafriends are incompetent" thread.

Exactly what I typed out

I'd rather be killed and cloned than wait to recover from massive blood loss

I had a round where I got critted from a bomb and saved

I then had to spend 15 minutes sitting there waiting, passing out every 5 seconds
Which wasn't helped by it being relatively new at the time and no doctor knew how to deal with it

It wasn't fun for anyone involved and has colored my opinion on it since

I despise bloodloss, you lose blood way too fast and iron/saline do virtually nothing to help. To not die for sure you absolutely have to go to medbay and eat 2-3 blood bags to get back to full, and then medbay are down half their bloodbags.

ShadowDimentio wrote:I despise bloodloss, you lose blood way too fast and iron/saline do virtually nothing to help. To not die for sure you absolutely have to go to medbay and eat 2-3 blood bags to get back to full, and then medbay are down half their bloodbags.

Unless you somehow managed to lose every drop of blood out of your body, there's zero reason to give anyone more than one bag, tops. You're not supposed to use it to replace their whole personal blood supply. Keep them high enough they can safely regenerate it, give them some iron and a slice of meatbread and kick them out.

confused rock wrote:Naaah, its annoying for a light system and uninteresting and only sort of works with a heavy one(but even then it is too annoying to heal naturally)
Dismemberment in a light system? Great, it cripples you, but it doesnt take much to SURVIVE it, and you might get a robo limb or steal an arm from a perma prisoner or something, requiring mds to be competent and do surgery.
This kind of bleending? Shit, it doesnt cripple you, but it slowly kills you which you counter by stealing all the salbutamol from oxygen kits. You NEED a doctor to survive it, and if the surgery fridge was all access you wouldnt need them-the doctor is actually just a walking id.

weren't you complaining just a few days ago that lizards don't have any drawbacks to differentiate them from humans

cedarbridge wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:I despise bloodloss, you lose blood way too fast and iron/saline do virtually nothing to help. To not die for sure you absolutely have to go to medbay and eat 2-3 blood bags to get back to full, and then medbay are down half their bloodbags.

Unless you somehow managed to lose every drop of blood out of your body, there's zero reason to give anyone more than one bag, tops. You're not supposed to use it to replace their whole personal blood supply. Keep them high enough they can safely regenerate it, give them some iron and a slice of meatbread and kick them out.

We need a supply of cookies and orange juice in medbay just for this reason. BLOOD DRIVE SNACKS

im confused

Stop bitching about a mechanic that not only adds to the idea that doctors should heal people instead of healing yourself.
2. The idea that you shouldn't be a little bitch and pay attention to something THAT LITERALLY TAKES 5-10 MINUTES TO ACTUALLY AFFECT YOU.
3. Git gud.
4. Bloodless on Bagil is so rare its nonexistent, where the fuck are all these cases of it fucking people over coming from and show me proof.
5. Perhaps learn how to stop Bloodloss by using wire cutters on a sheet to make bandages or botany. I know all you fucks play assistant or have a toolbelt. No excuses.
6. It's realistic feature that adds more than, sleeper done, patch done, pill done.
7. Cry more my doctor boner is hard with smugness

Acquire skill

my problem is the doctors need to fucking get good not me lard boy
also aliph are you FUCKTARDED carrying a stack of improvised gauze is an incredibly powergamey and temporary solution
your doctor boner doesn't even know what morphine does it fucking thinks badger is called bagil

confused rock wrote:my problem is the doctors need to fucking get good not me lard boy
also aliph are you FUCKTARDED carrying a stack of improvised gauze is an incredibly powergamey and temporary solution
your doctor boner doesn't even know what morphine does it fucking thinks badger is called bagil

This is a whine about players not about the feature or the code.

How to deal with blood loss:
1) Stab yourself with the epinephrine medipen in your backpack.
2) Get to medical and health analyze yourself.
3) Get your blood type from the crate in surgery. Some maps might have another crate in viro. Get the AI to open it or an MD. Get on an IV with the blood and wait. May need multiple repetitions with blood compatible with yours.
4) Is there no blood packs? Swallow iron pills and saline glucose solution. Eat food to regenerate blood.
5) Is your blood loss so bad that you can't do the above/the above wasn't enough? Find a oxy loss medikit from one of the 10000 O2 lockers or from medical. Swallow the salbutamol pills. You should be good for a while. (Did this earlier while at 50% blood, lasted me the remaining 10 minutes of the round.)

If you can't read that then I'll make a flow chart with pictures for you

confused rock wrote:my problem is the doctors need to fucking get good not me lard boy
also aliph are you FUCKTARDED carrying a stack of improvised gauze is an incredibly powergamey and temporary solution
your doctor boner doesn't even know what morphine does it fucking thinks badger is called bagil

Didn't i say preemptively get through gauze? No.
I do my job as doctor if you'd ever let the doctor do their job. Morphine reduces stun times up to what 7u then knocks your ass out like i would if I see a retard like you in my medbay

My issue isn't with the minor bloodloss it's the 10 minutes of not-really-crit added on to bombing victims and the like

It's a mercy to kill and clone them because if you can't be assed to pump them full of iron yourself they'll spend the next ten minutes attempting to do it themselves and failing because they keep dropping into unconsciousness And chemists will sit and watch you at the door and do nothing because why should they waste the power on their chem machines

use the fucking epipen you absolute mongol this is the third time I've said it and the tenth or so it's been said this thread

Remember to use the medical records console at the beginning of the round to find out who has that delicious O-.

Yes use the epipen that was in the backpack that got deleted in the bombing

Like I said the minor bloodloss isn't the problem its it being added to other shit that already incaps you for 5+ minutes

Increase blood regen.


Blood loss as a immediate factor is fine and interesting, but bloodloss fucking you over 10 minutes after it happened is just bullshit.

CPTANT wrote:Increase blood regen.


Blood loss as a immediate factor is fine and interesting, but bloodloss fucking you over 10 minutes after it happened is just bullshit.

Should really only increase the effects of blood regen increasing drugs/consumables. Buff iron and nutriment.

Make blood loss do stamina damage, and cause brain damage if not treated. Add in sepsis, and rejection issues with replacement organsand limbs.

Alipheese wrote:

confused rock wrote:my problem is the doctors need to fucking get good not me lard boy
also aliph are you FUCKTARDED carrying a stack of improvised gauze is an incredibly powergamey and temporary solution
your doctor boner doesn't even know what morphine does it fucking thinks badger is called bagil

Didn't i say preemptively get through gauze? No.
I do my job as doctor if you'd ever let the doctor do their job. Morphine reduces stun times up to what 7u then knocks your ass out like i would if I see a retard like you in my medbay

Morphine removes slowing effects, it doesn't reduce stun times.

cedarbridge wrote:

CPTANT wrote:Increase blood regen.


Blood loss as a immediate factor is fine and interesting, but bloodloss fucking you over 10 minutes after it happened is just bullshit.

Should really only increase the effects of blood regen increasing drugs/consumables. Buff iron and nutriment.

Yes, requiring nutriment is fine.

It now just soooooo useless.

Git gud. Regen could use a buff (a very small one) across the board but otherwise ur just bad.

Salglu is in med vendors
Also mediborg sprays

Takeguru wrote:Yes use the epipen that was in the backpack that got deleted in the bombing

Like I said the minor bloodloss isn't the problem its it being added to other shit that already incaps you for 5+ minutes

if you were close enough to the bomb to get all your stuff shredded and your epipen got deleted you were dead anyway

I'm just sad we can't get blood from suicides anymore since they always gib themsleves.

TheColdTurtle wrote:I'm just sad we can't get blood from suicides anymore since they always gib themsleves.

We could but airtank suicides are le ebic funnie

cedarbridge wrote:

TheColdTurtle wrote:I'm just sad we can't get blood from suicides anymore since they always gib themsleves.

We could but airtank suicides are le ebic funnie

they were the first time, now that the greytiders do it every time they dont roll antag not so much. It just leaves a mess for the janitor to never clean up and causes the station to look like shit less than 5 minutes into the round.

airtank suicide is a joke run way, way, way to far into the ground.

also I would like nutriment for better blood regen if eating one bowl of beef noodle didnt make you fat.

Dr_bee wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

TheColdTurtle wrote:I'm just sad we can't get blood from suicides anymore since they always gib themsleves.

We could but airtank suicides are le ebic funnie

they were the first time, now that the greytiders do it every time they dont roll antag not so much. It just leaves a mess for the janitor to never clean up and causes the station to look like shit less than 5 minutes into the round.

airtank suicide is a joke run way, way, way to far into the ground.

cedar was being sarcastic

airtank suicides are a mistake

on topic - maybe we should have a pamphlet in medbay explaining the basics of how blood works (type chart, how to regen blood without blood bags, etc.) because although I think the "it's medbay players that are the problem" posts are retarded I don't think it could hurt to make things a little clearer for new players

Most new players are surprised by the depth in a lot of SS13 systems and so I think it's reasonable for someone to not expect things like eating meat or iron or whatever to help with blood regen

Part of me wants to create a machine similar to science's large air scrubbers (in the sense that to use them you have to drag the machine where it will be used and wrench it down) that allows medbay to extract blood from willing (or unwilling) donors and replace it with an sufficient amount of salgu to avoid palefacing the donor for donating. I think baymed or at least /vg/ has a similar machine but I haven't really looked at theirs beyond concept of "machine that takes blood from patient. For such a machine to have a benefit over the bloodstand it would need to package the blood it gathers and probably add salgu/iron/something to mitigate the loss on the patient.

We have this, its called a IV drip and competent chemists who actually fill up beakers with salglue. I can understand why people might just want a quick super transfusion machine so they can just write off blood loss altogether but that is a poor replacement for the system & assets we have.

Blood tomatoes give virtually unlimited O+ blood just by scooping it up off the floor after it has been splatted.

The fact that people can't handle blood loss makes me scared.

Its a inconvenience to your gladitorial combat 1v1 simulator to bleed when you take damage because it fundamentally means you can't refill up to full with brute packs & ointment power-gaming gear.

Last time I'll repeat this since my blood loss PR is the first thing im opening when the freeze is over:

1) Blood loss CAN fucking suck. If you take 70+ damage to any single part of the body, you will be taking blood loss damage in about 30 seconds.

2) Blood loss is incredibly arbitrary due to hard cutoffs. I could shoot you in the face, chest, and leg and you wouldn't lose a drop of blood. If I shot you 3 times in the chest you'd be dead of blood loss in about a minute.

3) I'm fixing this and making blood loss a far smoother formula.

Edit: FREEZE OVER, https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/26539


By smoother formula I mean its now linear with brute damage instead of exponential based on arbitrary cutoffs like 30/50/70 where someone with 70 brute to a body part would be bleeding over twice as much as someone with 69 damage to that body part.

What do you mean by smoother formula?

But... Muh realism.

FantasticFwoosh wrote:We have this, its called a IV drip and competent chemists who actually fill up beakers with salglue. I can understand why people might just want a quick super transfusion machine so they can just write off blood loss altogether but that is a poor replacement for the system & assets we have.

I don't know where you're getting "quick super transfusion machine" out of a machine designed to streamline blood donation and packaging.

IV drips can draw blood, which makes them pretty ok for blood donation. Producing blood bags to fill is what we need, i suppose.

cedarbridge wrote:

FantasticFwoosh wrote:We have this, its called a IV drip and competent chemists who actually fill up beakers with salglue. I can understand why people might just want a quick super transfusion machine so they can just write off blood loss altogether but that is a poor replacement for the system & assets we have.

I don't know where you're getting "quick super transfusion machine" out of a machine designed to streamline blood donation and packaging.

Presumably I thought you meant the IV drips were too slow but a machine that just synthesises what a chemist is meant to do as per the maintenance & prepwork (making more cyroxadone etc) thats really lame. Shoot up and walk away detracts from whatever gameplay penalty there was as well as making the transfusion machine a target for counter-powergamers.

- Packaging for what? Use a IV drip you dipstick, it takes all beaker containers, click once to make it red & extract blood from corpses or whatever, blood bags can take like 200 reagents of blood to full so scan suicides & cadavers with a objective to harvest spare O+, O- and L type blood.

- If a wiz gets woozy they just pick up medbay dry supplies (safe patches, ointment, brute packs) and then could walk up to your transfusion machine, use it & ok ready to go ei-nath like 5 more people.

That and we already have natural & suggested blood regeneration, give us RnD advanced giant baboon hearts or something if you want to make a intuitive gameplay feature about it.

XDTM wrote:IV drips can draw blood, which makes them pretty ok for blood donation. Producing blood bags to fill is what we need, i suppose.

Pretty much this, it is hard to get bloodbags. Can't you only get them from cargo or the roundstart ones? The question I have with making them is what would we make them out of? We don't have a plastic material.

TheColdTurtle wrote:

XDTM wrote:IV drips can draw blood, which makes them pretty ok for blood donation. Producing blood bags to fill is what we need, i suppose.

Pretty much this, it is hard to get bloodbags. Can't you only get them from cargo or the roundstart ones? The question I have with making them is what would we make them out of? We don't have a plastic material.

We should totally steal plastellium from Bay, then. From sterile gloves to gas masks I'm sure there's all flavours of plastic shit that can't be made normally.

Oldman Robustin wrote:I opened a PR to refactor blood yesterday but it got meme'd by the "BALANCE" police until freeze is over.

TL;DR: Bleeding is incredibly arbitrary and you can bleed out in 30 seconds or 10 minutes depending on how your damage is distributed. Brute damage to a single body part exponentially increases blood loss and I will be fixing it immediately after the freeze so you aren't dying of incredibly rapid blood loss.

I might also make blood loss a little more forgiving. Taking oxyloss damage at 10% blood loss is a bit silly.

This is a valid issue. thanks robustin

DemonFiren wrote:

TheColdTurtle wrote:

XDTM wrote:IV drips can draw blood, which makes them pretty ok for blood donation. Producing blood bags to fill is what we need, i suppose.

Pretty much this, it is hard to get bloodbags. Can't you only get them from cargo or the roundstart ones? The question I have with making them is what would we make them out of? We don't have a plastic material.

We should totally steal plastellium from Bay, then. From sterile gloves to gas masks I'm sure there's all flavours of plastic shit that can't be made normally.

But we already have plastic