/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I propose a Sybil/Bagil merger, and to rename it Babylon.

It will be a fitting and foreshadowing name for the new LRP server to come.

Realistically, this is already sorta what happened, just without the name change. There should be very little ping difference for Bagillites joining Sybil, just quite a bit of a culture shock.

The name is particularly critical to setting the tone and atmosphere, as a vibe connoisseur I assure you this is paramount.

You had me lost until you mentioned vibes now I’m gonna rename Sybil to Sigil when I get home until another key holder fixes it (a reference of course to Babylon because a sigil can be part of a language)

DrAmazing343 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 2:44 pm

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 9:42 am What a lovely conversation as Sybil continues to burn.

Continues to burn how? Seeding efforts have caused a noticeable uptick from like, six player peaks to 20+ and will keep rising if we keep going. Pop attracts pop, and it may not be the Sybil you know best, but changing of the guards are inevitable and if I were you I’d be organizing or taking part in efforts to rebuild instead of doomposting in a forum thread.

Terry being down is also adding some players which meant the other day it hit 50, but I’m not counting that since I’ve got no idea how many will stay if any at all once Terry is back up.

why are you engaging with people who are genuinely in the late stages of mental decline and just hang around the forum like ghouls hoping they can regain the feeling they had when they first joined the game despite that being a product of certain people and the time it was.

I’ve been informed I am a spectre and/or ghoul myself. Perhaps it is simply in the season.

oranges wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 9:31 pm Textual fart

Go away, you stink.

I hope you OD on vegemite.

the reason why I play TG is because (unlike some Roleplay based games) I feel that I can interact with the everyone without feeling that I am undermined by more ‘important’ people. and the admins of this server feels like people I can actually converse with instead of acting like automonous rule enforcing robots.

I’ll only leave when I stop feeling like I am apart of this community.

Mimepride wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 11:29 pm

oranges wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 9:31 pm Textual fart

Go away, you stink.

I hope you OD on vegemite.

oranges wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 9:31 pm

DrAmazing343 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 2:44 pm

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 9:42 am What a lovely conversation as Sybil continues to burn.

Continues to burn how? Seeding efforts have caused a noticeable uptick from like, six player peaks to 20+ and will keep rising if we keep going. Pop attracts pop, and it may not be the Sybil you know best, but changing of the guards are inevitable and if I were you I’d be organizing or taking part in efforts to rebuild instead of doomposting in a forum thread.

Terry being down is also adding some players which meant the other day it hit 50, but I’m not counting that since I’ve got no idea how many will stay if any at all once Terry is back up.

why are you engaging with people who are genuinely in the late stages of mental decline and just hang around the forum like ghouls hoping they can regain the feeling they had when they first joined the game despite that being a product of certain people and the time it was.

It's funny you project at us like we're some stagnant relic of the past.

The feels never changed. From 12 to 26 I had fun. No one was "chasing a high". It wasn't novel after pretty long, but we stayed. We're giving you genuine critique about very recent design directions. Your input and role has dramatically shaped the direction of the game, and many of us feel these changes have been pretty detrimental. You don't think a year and a half or so is actually a long time, do you?

being smug and dismissive won't bring pop up

It'd be really funny if a forum mod put this in the Player's Club so sybilites complaining it's dead lose their ability to reply since they're not even playing the game they claim is dead (including me).

Honestly a lot of what was discussed in this thread before it was derailed is due to code changes. It completely changed the gameplay loop of being a traitor. Even without the obvious effect of progtrot there has been an incredibly steady effort to remove anything useful from the station. In the past as an antag you actually had a reason to rob places.

Rob engineering for insulated gloves -> Now severly nerfed with thick fingers
Rob armory for guns -> nerfed by bulky guns
Rob chemistry for lube -> nerfed by nerfing slips
Rob cargo for ammo -> ammo is removed from lathes
Rob science for weapons -> nerfed with firing pins
Rob gentics for powers -> Nope we also nerfed hulk
Rob toxins for a bomb -> Nope that was made harder and harder as well
Rob medbay for healing -> Nope self healing was nerfed

And it goes on and on. The gameplay loop was surgically removed from interacting with the station to gating it to antag gear only and then letting people run through objective hoops to get it.

CPTANT wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 12:46 pm Honestly a lot of what was discussed in this thread before it was derailed is due to code changes. It completely changed the gameplay loop of being a traitor. Even without the obvious effect of progtrot there has been an incredibly steady effort to remove anything useful from the station. In the past as an antag you actually had a reason to rob places.

Rob engineering for insulated gloves -> Now severly nerfed with thick fingers
Rob armory for guns -> nerfed by bulky guns
Rob chemistry for lube -> nerfed by nerfing slips
Rob cargo for ammo -> ammo is removed from lathes
Rob science for weapons -> nerfed with firing pins
Rob gentics for powers -> Nope we also nerfed hulk
Rob toxins for a bomb -> Nope that was made harder and harder as well
Rob medbay for healing -> Nope self healing was nerfed

And it goes on and on. The gameplay loop was surgically removed from interacting with the station to gating it to antag gear only and then letting people run through objective hoops to get it.

I dunno, Terry and Manuel are going strong in spite of these changes.

a true player would know that insulated gloves dont give you chunky fingers

remove progression traitor remove final objectives

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 1:30 pm a true player would know that insulated gloves dont give you chunky fingers

Wow, removed a whole month ago. Now do the rest.

hello, this thread has been getting a lot of reports and i don't want to lock it because people are having genuine discussions in here about their thoughts and experiences which i think are valuable and i would like to see it continue.

please think twice about whether your funny little insults are being couched inside an actual point because if the shitposting continues and exists for no other reason than to derail the thread/piss people off then i will start sweeping and warning with much more gravitas.

edit: this is the 420th post can i get a hell yeah

No

dendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 6:55 pm hello, this thread has been getting a lot of reports and i don't want to lock it because people are having genuine discussions in here about their thoughts and experiences which i think are valuable and i would like to see it continue.

please think twice about whether your funny little insults are being couched inside an actual point because if the shitposting continues and exists for no other reason than to derail the thread/piss people off then i will start sweeping and warning with much more gravitas.

edit: this is the 420th post can i get a hell yeah

WHO is reporting it

might it be THOSE IN QUESTION.

it is weirdly aggro lmao

dendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 6:55 pm edit: this is the 420th post can i get a hell yeah

blaze it *clap *clap

massa wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 10:32 pm

dendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 6:55 pm hello, this thread has been getting a lot of reports and i don't want to lock it because people are having genuine discussions in here about their thoughts and experiences which i think are valuable and i would like to see it continue.

please think twice about whether your funny little insults are being couched inside an actual point because if the shitposting continues and exists for no other reason than to derail the thread/piss people off then i will start sweeping and warning with much more gravitas.

edit: this is the 420th post can i get a hell yeah

WHO is reporting it

might it be THOSE IN QUESTION.

it is weirdly aggro lmao

no it's just everyone against each other when someone (either side) makes a dumb dumb post

it's not even worth discussing cus it is just more derailing. im smart enough (lol) to tell when a post needs sweeping and when it can stay but is indicative of a thread just becoming more of people posting waah waah words for the sake of it rather than actually discussing something. this thread touches on a hot topic so i know people are gonna get heated but the bare minimum is just to have a point to what you're saying if you're gonna let loose and say words like "frick" and "ass." im not asking everyone to get along and only say positive nice things. just to have a point to when they say mean things. hope this clarifies things

massa wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:52 am It's funny you project at us like we're some stagnant relic of the past.

The feels never changed. From 12 to 26 I had fun. No one was "chasing a high". It wasn't novel after pretty long, but we stayed. We're giving you genuine critique about very recent design directions. Your input and role has dramatically shaped the direction of the game, and many of us feel these changes have been pretty detrimental. You don't think a year and a half or so is actually a long time, do you?

being smug and dismissive won't bring pop up

Why are you engaging with people who are genuinely in the late stages of Narcissitic Personality Disorder and just hang around the forum like tools, hoping they can regain the feelings they had when they first started being a dillweed to the playerbase despite this being an open-source crowd-funded game server that wholly depends on the goodwill of said playerbase to survive and thrive.

CPTANT wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 12:46 pm Rob chemistry for lube -> nerfed by nerfing slips

I think ive seen space lube used 1 time in the last year, its so crazy that its just about useless now to me. I don't think normal players even know about it.

Roadto3k wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2024 1:03 am

CPTANT wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 12:46 pm Rob chemistry for lube -> nerfed by nerfing slips

I think ive seen space lube used 1 time in the last year, its so crazy that its just about useless now to me. I don't think normal players even know about it.

we nerfed everything related to inconveniences caused by slipping

What do you expect space lube to do when you slip on it? Not what it does now, what it should do?

I expect it to do what it did before. Thats not reasonable at all with how all stuns have changed. But what is it supposed to be now? Ask who changed it.

What is 'before'? The exact mechanics you want. Nothing vague. Describe what happens when you slip on space lube in an ideal scenario.

420 weed

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2024 9:44 am What do you expect space lube to do when you slip on it? Not what it does now, what it should do?

I have no idea what the state of space lube is nor do I have a horse in this race but I expect to slip aaaaaall the way to space.

That's why it's space lube.

Doesn't space lube dry up after a while now? That basically eliminates the janitor's role in cleaning up.
Also it seemed like a funnier concept when you would slip more than 3 tiles in a line.
People wanted to play ss13 because of things like sseth's video where you could slip people out of a long corridor out of an open airlock.
People wanted to play the game because of that kind of thing. They wouldn't want to play the game if the video was just a player slipping five tiles.
It seems like coders are intent on removing those kinds of features that people think are funny.
Similar principle to livrah's videos. For example when he figured out his could transfer his mind into a restaurant tourist bot after a coder(for some reason) made them basically immortal with their hp. Then the coder eliminated the ability to transfer minds to the bot as if that was some kind of widespread problem.
While that incident was funny it really just seems like people are devoting time towards coding out fun quirks.
Why do we eliminate weird exploits?
Why did the tourist bots have to be indestructible to begin with?
Why is it not allowed for a player to take over a tourist bot that the same coder made invulnerable?
A few of these incidences aren't significant.
When it happens constantly over the course of years it instead feels like there's an adverse relationship between players and coders where the players try to find holes in the game and the coders try to patch them out. Maybe players vs coders vs admins is the real meta of ss13 lrp but if you win against the players for long enough the only players left will be mrp types.
If you're going to be adverse towards players at least do it in fun ways like the space lube trick ruining a few players rounds rather than trying to make the game more "balanced".
My 2 cents on the matter.

i think tex figured all this out a couple years ago fams

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2024 4:37 pm
Why did the tourist bots have to be indestructible to begin with?

when i saw the comment the coder made it seems like they're just upset their pet project was getting clowned on by players
remember, they also break all your limbs if you fuck with them
it's probably just an ego thing.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2024 4:37 pm Similar principle to livrah's videos. For example when he figured out his could transfer his mind into a restaurant tourist bot after a coder(for some reason) made them basically immortal with their hp. Then the coder eliminated the ability to transfer minds to the bot as if that was some kind of widespread problem.
While that incident was funny it really just seems like people are devoting time towards coding out fun quirks.
Why do we eliminate weird exploits?

if you leave these in they'll just get increasingly exploited until theyr'e removed anyway, in this case the resturant bots were being watched closely by the developer in question so it was done faster, but it would be inevitable in the end as knowledge spread anyway.

People like Livrah also actively broadcasts these exploits to a wider audience, and people are prone to replicate it afterwards. It wouldn't necessarily become widespread...if it wasn't for the fact that he had a youtube channel dedicated to demonstrating exploits/ridiculous mechanic combinations to a wider audience.

He and everyone else shouldn't be so surprised to find it gets patched almost as soon as it is discovered; but it does kind of mean novelty gets burned away pretty quick because there is incentive by anyone making content to find these exploits and put them before an audience as soon as they can for content. Its been a bit since Ive seen anyone natively find any particularly novel gameplay quirks that wasn't me finding it myself, because someone with a channel usually gobbles it up too quickly.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2024 8:32 pm i think tex figured all this out a couple years ago fams

Ditch ss13 for battletech lore videos?

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 12:31 am He and everyone else shouldn't be so surprised to find it gets patched almost as soon as it is discovered; but it does kind of mean novelty gets burned away pretty quick because there is incentive by anyone making content to find these exploits and put them before an audience as soon as they can for content. Its been a bit since Ive seen anyone natively find any particularly novel gameplay quirks that wasn't me finding it myself, because someone with a channel usually gobbles it up too quickly.

This sentiment will or least has the capacity to completely backfire, I don't have to go very far to catch SS14 footage of absolutely incredible exploits like herding a singlo using a free-moving shuttle that's reminding me and making me crave of some of the original shenanigans that got me into SS13 in the first place.

I don't disagree some things have tenure, Kevinz was a very prominent PR-reactionist and abuser of mechanics (sometimes just ones they put in themselves) but often put in as much novelty as they took out with ided'ing and their regular contribution is missed.

honestly if anything the people kinda responsible for the state of it now are usually the players for abusing everything to hell and back until they upset a sufficient amount of dudes

jimmyl wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 7:57 am honestly if anything the people kinda responsible for the state of it now are usually the players for abusing everything to hell and back until they upset a sufficient amount of dudes

please for the love of god

please take a WHOLE MINUTE of your time today to read what you wrote here and then think about how to not say the dumbest thing in 7 pages of a thread next time

EDIT: sorry NINE PAGES.

using the mechanics in the game isn't abusing exploits actually and the game existing isn't a reason to delete it

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 5:09 pm

jimmyl wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 7:57 am honestly if anything the people kinda responsible for the state of it now are usually the players for abusing everything to hell and back until they upset a sufficient amount of dudes

please for the love of god

please take a WHOLE MINUTE of your time today to read what you wrote here and then think about how to not say the dumbest thing in 7 pages of a thread next time

EDIT: sorry NINE PAGES.

sorry not sorry

I'll repeat what I said and add that assigning blame and looking for scapegoats rather than PLAYING THE VIDEOGAME ON SYBIL isn't gonna solve the problem of PEOPLE NOT PLAYING ON SYBIL.

Hop on Sybil

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 6:32 pm I'll repeat what I said and add that assigning blame and looking for scapegoats rather than PLAYING THE VIDEOGAME ON SYBIL isn't gonna solve the problem of PEOPLE NOT PLAYING ON SYBIL.

Hop on Sybil

did jimmyl get unbanned? he'd probably find it kind of tough otherwise

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 6:32 pm I'll repeat what I said and add that assigning blame and looking for scapegoats rather than PLAYING THE VIDEOGAME ON SYBIL isn't gonna solve the problem of PEOPLE NOT PLAYING ON SYBIL.

Hop on Sybil

Complaining is totally fine. You're the last person on earth who should be saying otherwise when you proudly proclaimed "It will get merged, you don't have a choice, and it's not really that big of a deal." in the wallening thread(quote aged like milk btw). Turns out that complaining, taking action with respect to those complaints(Wallstation) and properly assigning blame to the relevant guilty parties(the literal opposite of scapegoating) actually brings positive change, or at the very least avoids total disaster.

Hopping on sybil is totally fine too. Personally, like Indie in this thread, I do both. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I don't know why you are against complaining. Complaining allows us to actually articulate our grievances to one another--it serves an extremely useful function with respect to negative feedback loops, and in the ideal case they provide a roadmap to addressing an issue. Complain away.

i hate to belabor the point but u guys know this is a videogame that real people play like if you leave broken shit in like "oh its a quirky way to grief" like yeah its a quirky way to remove people from the game for at times making one minor mistake which is only fun for the perpetrator and not the victim. if the coders communally wanted this to be the way the game operates they would have not made changes to make the game more fun and less "sorry you slipped on some soap 5 minutes into the round and then got cuffed and spaced see you in 75 minutes bro." different strokes for different folks of course and all that but like. its not the thing killing sybil. its the thing killing griefers who dont play the game. if ur sole desire in this game is to cause misery to other people while you laugh at them have you considered just playing like dota 2 or something

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 6:32 pm I'll repeat what I said and add that assigning blame and looking for scapegoats rather than PLAYING THE VIDEOGAME ON SYBIL isn't gonna solve the problem of PEOPLE NOT PLAYING ON SYBIL.

Hop on Sybil

I think I have about 500 hours logged in the server, that's not the highest amount of course but it's enough I can complain about the direction the game design has taken over a few years even if I don't have the time to play it currently. Furthermore I'm not mentioning specific names and I've made a point of saying things like restaurant bots being coded to a double standard (indestructible but not exploitable for it) or unnecessary gun resprites when isolated by themselves are not significant but part of an overall trend that is troubling. I think that's the opposite of scapegoating when it's a general community's direction of spending time making existing content worse rather than creating new content, not an accusation of an individual coder singlehandedly doing it, and furthermore no one's really being named except for oranges perhaps(not by me) but he doesn't act like he cares anyway about people talking shit. If you feel like individuals are being attacked specifically by these types of criticisms I don't know what to tell you, that's an indication of too much ego being involved on the part of the listener if anything. I literally don't even know the names of whoever made the changes I criticize.
Wallening was at least trying something more new but I think the time would have been better spent on an additional game mode.

SpaceInaba wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 7:35 pm i hate to belabor the point but u guys know this is a videogame that real people play like if you leave broken shit in like "oh its a quirky way to grief" like yeah its a quirky way to remove people from the game for at times making one minor mistake which is only fun for the perpetrator and not the victim. if the coders communally wanted this to be the way the game operates they would have not made changes to make the game more fun and less "sorry you slipped on some soap 5 minutes into the round and then got cuffed and spaced see you in 75 minutes bro." different strokes for different folks of course and all that but like. its not the thing killing sybil. its the thing killing griefers who dont play the game. if ur sole desire in this game is to cause misery to other people while you laugh at them have you considered just playing like dota 2 or something

The attitude within this post is the core of the issue. LRP philosophy is "lol get good" when you get dunked on by someone else using a feature exploit whereas MRP just wants to have the coders remove everything obscure that kills you. They're two completely different playstyles and are good in their own separate ways but MRP should in theory already have admins enforcing the extra set of rules. I don't see why the coders have to accommodate MRP players constantly by lowering the game's skill ceiling. An LRP player wants to learn how to use something that kills them whereas an MRP player wants that thing removed.

SpaceInaba wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 7:35 pm i hate to belabor the point but u guys know this is a videogame that real people play like if you leave broken shit in like "oh its a quirky way to grief" like yeah its a quirky way to remove people from the game for at times making one minor mistake which is only fun for the perpetrator and not the victim. if the coders communally wanted this to be the way the game operates they would have not made changes to make the game more fun and less "sorry you slipped on some soap 5 minutes into the round and then got cuffed and spaced see you in 75 minutes bro." different strokes for different folks of course and all that but like. its not the thing killing sybil. its the thing killing griefers who dont play the game. if ur sole desire in this game is to cause misery to other people while you laugh at them have you considered just playing like dota 2 or something

this might blow your mind bro but a lot of the people that get slipped cuffed and thrown out an airlock have themselves a mighty good laugh and then proceed to live life while they wait for the next round instead having a full on heart attack about not being able to play for an hour while they write a PR removing cuffs soap and space.

ok have any of you guys actually played on the MRP server like its basically indistinguishable from the LRP servers other than the fact that people talk to you first before they valid you for walking into their department

SpaceInaba wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 9:31 pm ok have any of you guys actually played on the MRP server like its basically indistinguishable from the LRP servers other than the fact that people talk to you first before they valid you for walking into their department

this is gaslighting

Mimepride wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 7:34 pm You're the last person on earth who should be saying otherwise when you proudly proclaimed "It will get merged, you don't have a choice, and it's not really that big of a deal." in the wallening thread(quote aged like milk btw).

hmmm cheese

SpaceInaba wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 9:31 pm ok have any of you guys actually played on the MRP server like its basically indistinguishable from the LRP servers other than the fact that people talk to you first before they valid you for walking into their department

You are literally nuts.

No, it's not the same at all. Not even close. And yes, I have. Here's a massive difference between LRP and MRP: if I show up to the station, dressed in space loot pirate gear--and then freely hand out that pirate gear/guns to the crew, three massive differences occur:

First: the crew are much more likely to ignore that crate of combat space loot, because muh stay in your lane--why would my super cool RP character want battle armor and space protection on a metal death trap? I am just supposed to be doing my job! Security!!! Secure this dangerous and free loot that this benevolent player is handing out freely! On LRP people are literally pumped to get free gamer gear, especially security, and are more than happy to thank you for your benevolence, rather than remain totally indifferent to it. On a deeper level than that, many MRPers straight up fear the bwoink that comes with wearing space loot like that--which leads into the...

Second: If I, the player, am attacked by a crew member while wearing said loot, even if I save them from being chainstunned by a head of staff with a baton, even if I remain totally still and non-hostile as this unjust attacker is whacking me, should I attempt to retaliate while dressed in space pirate loot(gotten from space, not from antags) under the misapplication of RPR 2, I cannot defend myself and must submit myself to the very high RP task of letting myself be crit/killed by the person I quite literally saved from being griefed. This shit never happens on LRP. No LRP admin with their head screwed on straight would ever rule against you, the defender and non-aggressor, in a conflict like that. On MRP they will and have.

Third: there's an extremely high chance that command and sec will attempt to make you get a gun permit(lol no, I risked my life and time in the round for this shit and I'm not filling out paperwork for some jobbie just to enjoy playing with it) or they will attempt to remove it from my person since it's contraband(even on Fulp space explorer loot has metaprotections that prevent sec from taking it from you, metaprotections which don't exist on Manuel, but which are implicitly honored on LRP because LOOT!). Again, this. Does. Not. Happen. On. LRP.

This is just one small instance where massive differences exist between LRP and MRP. And trust me: there are enough to fill a 500 page book.

Mimepride wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 9:53 pm

SpaceInaba wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 9:31 pm ok have any of you guys actually played on the MRP server like its basically indistinguishable from the LRP servers other than the fact that people talk to you first before they valid you for walking into their department

snip

im sorry mister september 2024 but ive genuinely never experienced any of this. you are also misinterpreting policy egregiously in many parts of this post that indicates that you dont have as much experience as you claim to. nobody's ever made me get a gun permit, ive never been bwoinked for self defense or having powerful loot. you understand that section 2 of the roleplay rules specifically indicate that they are for situations where you say break into a department to steal something and then kill everybody who tries to kick you out right? i think you may want to work on your reading comprehension before you play any more of a text heavy game such as space station 13