Security is more or less impossible to deal with IC

[onleavedontatme]

Bottom post of the previous page:

What is the appropriate response when security attacks you/abuses you/arrests you FNR for 20 minutes?

Adminhelping about cell times or false arrests is generally "IC issue," but retaliating violently will get you banned. If you retaliate non violently they'll "escalate" to murdering you or permabrigging you. They're allowed to break into anywhere they want, take what they want, etc. Nobody IC will care because everyone knows they can't be antagonists.

Is there an appropriate response other than rolling over and dying/letting the guy mess with your round?

And no this isn't just about that recent ban appeal, this has been something that's been bothering me for a while. We have a class of player who is more or less rules free yet it's bannable to retaliate or protect yourself.

[Screemonster]

The problem is that players usually have this mentality of "that person in the cell did no wrong because I don't know the wrong they did."

the same could be said of some of the people defending banned players :v

[D&B]

The problem is that players usually have this mentality of "that person in the cell did no wrong because I don't know the wrong they did."

the same could be said of some of the people defending banned players :v

Yamete

[CPTANT]

This is the polar opposite to say, when SoS was around and sec wasn't allowed to do anything, so nobody played it, then the shittery started to rise.

As opposed to now where Basil can have 70 people on with 1 officer and no HoS or Warden? People not playing sec because of admins is just a myth that gets perpetuated. There might be a few people who had a bad runin with an admin while playing sec but generally those were just bad admins, not bad policy. People decide to play sec due to a huge number of factors, the occasional admin intervention was never a big issue. Some admins needed to dial it down a notch with security but this whole "Sec can murder anyone who even slightly inconveniences them" is far too wide a swing in the opposite direction.

I would even argue that sec has lost its excitement when the only people who you have to deal with are GAME-CERTIFIED ANTAGONISTS. The basic brig cells go empty for several rounds in a row because its far too easy to discern between minor grief and antagonistic behavior since admins made all the middle-ground tiding punishable by bans or immediate executions, sec doesn't even have to enforce minor laws since they know it will never escalate. When I played sec ~5 years ago I would constantly be putting people into cells for trying to hack into the brig, punching officers, disarming me and taking my baton, etc. - now I can't even remember the last time I did something besides let someone go after a search or immediately execute someone. Likewise when I'm an assistant either I never see the inside of the brig or I get my head caved in with a baton, I don't remember the last time I saw the inside of a regular brig cell. Our policy punishes anyone who engages in moderate harassment against security and also punishes security who use moderate punishments against crew. Why would any jaded security player bother with the struggle of putting someone in a cell when 9/10 times the admins will tolerate you killing that guy on the spot?

I always felt the answer was pretty intuitive. If sec endorses a Gestapo mentality absent any kind of adequate provocation or warning, then it absolutely justifies crewmembers who attack/kidnap security. Revolution shouldn't just be a mode, it's something that our escalation rules should absolutely permit. If you're an officer with Hitler and Eichmann as your HOS and Warden then you should either object, desert, or be prepared to accept the IC consequences for throwing in with their cause. Obviously this doesn't mean the HOS can just start lasering crew at roundstart, but we already give the HOS and security a ton of leeway in their escalation. If we don't like that solution then we need to start cracking down on sec grief because admins have been trained to be WAYYY too lenient on security murder to justify banning people who fight back.

This.

There is way too much moderation against "greytide". Greytide actually keeps rounds as security interesting as well.