Lavaland

[Bombadil]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Accelerators 2 shot ashwalkers its kinda bullshit. If you got an asshole miner they can easily kill you

[onleavedontatme]

Real jobs have priority over ghost roles.

[Takeguru]

At the same time, you can get 15 ash walkers just by dunking a few legions, and you get super easy corpse gibbing if you down a miner and want to fuck him out of his round just because

[onleavedontatme]

In no particular order:

@Cheridan

Either of those mob things would be fun

@Steelpoint

Kinda taking a break in regards to grand design goals, the only plan right now is to flesh out what there is currently and maybe try lavastation

@tetra

I will nerf player dragons

[MMMiracles]

Ashwalkers aren't even that hard to kill unless they someone manage to land like 3 spear embeds in a row.

Ran into what was a ransacked survival capsule with blood and a supply headset, the nest was like 10-15 tiles to the east of it. Ashwalkers ended up coming back to gather the rest of the loot and it essentially ended with one of them trying to suicide bomb me with gibtonite I had mined earlier while the others chucked spears. Shit got pretty intense as I got knocked down by a spear and was saved solely by 2 goliaths who roamed into the battle and managed to pull the heat off me.

Pushed them back and killed the tendril, was probably one of the more memorable PvP moments in this game that wasn't solely from shit like rev/gang murder. Was actually pretty fun, would fight off ash liggers again.

[Bombadil]

Ashwalkers aren't even that hard to kill unless they someone manage to land like 3 spear embeds in a row.

Ran into what was a ransacked survival capsule with blood and a supply headset, the nest was like 10-15 tiles to the east of it. Ashwalkers ended up coming back to gather the rest of the loot and it essentially ended with one of them trying to suicide bomb me with gibtonite I had mined earlier while the others chucked spears. Shit got pretty intense as I got knocked down by a spear and was saved solely by 2 goliaths who roamed into the battle and managed to pull the heat off me.

Pushed them back and killed the tendril, was probably one of the more memorable PvP moments in this game that wasn't solely from shit like rev/gang murder. Was actually pretty fun, would fight off ash liggers again.

I was the one who tried to bomb you

[Tornadium]

I should clarify I fucking hate Lavaland.

More on principle because they thought adding a PvE loot dungeon with shit that doesn't fit the setting was okay but giving security ballistic weapons was a shit idea because it didn't fit the setting.

[Sidon]

I should clarify I fucking hate Lavaland.

More on principle because they thought adding a PvE loot dungeon with shit that doesn't fit the setting was okay but giving security ballistic weapons was a shit idea because it didn't fit the setting.

hahahahaha!!!!

[Tornadium]

I should clarify I fucking hate Lavaland.

More on principle because they thought adding a PvE loot dungeon with shit that doesn't fit the setting was okay but giving security ballistic weapons was a shit idea because it didn't fit the setting.

I don't think objecting to something violating NT's theme is entirely equivalent to an enemy/alien/outside force having its own theme.

Wizards have magic but I wouldn't want security to start with wands. Each faction should have some internal consistency at least.

If you hate PVE on principle though then whatever, not gonna change your mind there. It's the only way to really alleviate the zero sum game of antag vs security and general angst though.

All that said I didn't add angel wings.

You basically turned mining into an away mission, and the biggest complaint about away missions was that they were just used to grab loot for power gaming.

At least the away missions were kinda fitting to the theme and universe.

I would argue that adding the shit that lavaland adds is a much much worse breach than giving security fucking ballistics in terms of consistency. The special snowflake meme shit is just getting out of control, Not sure about others but each new addition is just making me go "what the fuck".

[onleavedontatme]

>away missions were fitting to the universe and setting

Like when you visit wizard school, raid a maze full of Faithless, or shoot skeletons in hell? How is lavaland out of sync with maps like that?

>you turned lavaland into an away mission

Yes, and it's pretty popular. People liked away missions.

But away missions had really boring lazy mobs, way too much loot, and were generally just really easy to memorize and exploit.

You can't go into lavaland with a toolbox and come back with 30 c20rs.

>shit that lavaland adds is a way bigger breach

Like what?

[Tornadium]

>away missions were fitting to the universe and setting

Like when you visit wizard school, raid a maze full of Faithless, or shoot skeletons in hell? How is lavaland out of sync with maps like that?

>you turned lavaland into an away mission

Yes, and it's pretty popular. People liked away missions.

But away missions had really boring lazy mobs, way too much loot, and were generally just really easy to memorize and exploit.

You can't go into lavaland with a toolbox and come back with 30 c20rs.

>shit that lavaland adds is a way bigger breach

Like what?

I never played the maze or hell away missions, so I can't comment on those. They sound fucking retarded. The wizard one is fine because wizard has been part of the game forever so the crew being ordered to get some payback isn't out of the realms of possibility.

It's only popular because people love to powergame and grab the gear. Lets be serious no one enjoys BYOND PvE, it's not engaging at all. You do everything for the sweet powergame items.

I'm unsure of the full list of what is available from lavaland but the dragon loot from what I recall seemed particularly fucking stupid. If there is a full list of what can be acquired I'd be happy to point them out. It just seems comical that breaking NT laser weapon theme isn't acceptable but turning mining into "powergame PvE for gear" where absolutely no one mines ever is acceptable.

[Wyzack]

I dunno, I enjoy it and I think lots of other people do too. It is fun

[Tornadium]

I dunno, I enjoy it and I think lots of other people do too. It is fun

I would argue that the vast majority enjoy getting the powergamey loot over the actual PvE experience.

Especially with the lag spikes getting you killed before you can react sometimes.

[onleavedontatme]

Ironically one of the most widespread compaints about lavaland is that there isn't enough loot to justify the danger level.

[MMMiracles]

Tornadium have you actually played the new mining or are you just theory-crafting out of your ass at this point I mean really.

The loot is a side-benefit of the job as a miner. It can give them an edge but seriously unless you're killing the ash drake most of the loot mining can get ahold of is easily matched/out-done by the shit research can pump out with the ore you get them.

It'd be pretty hard to justify getting eaten by an ash drake/turned into a mass of legion/frozen to death on a lavaplanet/fucked by a goliath if there wasn't some sort of reward involved past "RnD might give you some toys if they're competent".

[Tornadium]

Tornadium have you actually played the new mining or are you just theory-crafting out of your ass at this point I mean really.

The loot is a side-benefit of the job as a miner. It can give them an edge but seriously unless you're killing the ash drake most of the loot mining can get ahold of is easily matched/out-done by the shit research can pump out with the ore you get them.

It'd be pretty hard to justify getting eaten by an ash drake/turned into a mass of legion/frozen to death on a lavaplanet/fucked by a goliath if there wasn't some sort of reward involved past "RnD might give you some toys if they're competent".

I've played it, but never to the point of really testing it due to lagging out for 10 second periods and coming back dead.

I do know that there are fucking lava staffs and shit coming out of the ash drake though, which for me is past the point of bullshit for loot.

[confused rock]

Tornadium have you actually played the new mining or are you just theory-crafting out of your ass at this point I mean really.

The loot is a side-benefit of the job as a miner. It can give them an edge but seriously unless you're killing the ash drake most of the loot mining can get ahold of is easily matched/out-done by the shit research can pump out with the ore you get them.

It'd be pretty hard to justify getting eaten by an ash drake/turned into a mass of legion/frozen to death on a lavaplanet/fucked by a goliath if there wasn't some sort of reward involved past "RnD might give you some toys if they're competent".

so xray, ert armor, katanas, staffs of honkmother, champion belts, zombies, some shit i am probably forgetting, lots more cool shit I am probably forgetting, morph (kor said this is also free antag), hijack objective free antag, hijack objective free antag with all superpowers, fucking forms of null rod, TAROT CARDS WHICH GIVE YOU A RANDOM HOLOPARA, cubes which allow you to teleport, a meat hook staff that fits on your belt, stuns, teleports people to you, and can 3 hit kill (and 1 hits a borg if used at point blank), voodoo dolls, clusterbangs of fire, ai malf upgrades (including the ability to nuke if you subvert it), more shit I am forgetting, recall spells, soul shards, and much much more shit I am forgetting, all of that is outmatched by.. lets see... research has no smgs or laser gatlings... uh, durands? (durands need mining by the way) also, dragons aren't that hard to kill, and lava staff with that thing (especially with your Xray) is hilariously lethal. did I mention the malf upgrade that makes miners the only job besides traitor ai that can nuke the station? or that they can potentially sentience potion a tendril and its first few minions, move them to the station, and fuck shit up, leaving a 5x5 lethal chasm if the crew somehow wins? or the facehuggers? or the stroke I am going to have?

[Tornadium]

Tornadium have you actually played the new mining or are you just theory-crafting out of your ass at this point I mean really.

The loot is a side-benefit of the job as a miner. It can give them an edge but seriously unless you're killing the ash drake most of the loot mining can get ahold of is easily matched/out-done by the shit research can pump out with the ore you get them.

It'd be pretty hard to justify getting eaten by an ash drake/turned into a mass of legion/frozen to death on a lavaplanet/fucked by a goliath if there wasn't some sort of reward involved past "RnD might give you some toys if they're competent".

so xray, ert armor, katanas, staffs of honkmother, champion belts, zombies, some shit i am probably forgetting, lots more cool shit I am probably forgetting, morph (kor said this is also free antag), hijack objective free antag, hijack objective free antag with all superpowers, fucking forms of null rod, TAROT CARDS WHICH GIVE YOU A RANDOM HOLOPARA, cubes which allow you to teleport, a meat hook staff that fits on your belt, stuns, teleports people to you, and can 3 hit kill (and 1 hits a borg if used at point blank), voodoo dolls, clusterbangs of fire, ai malf upgrades (including the ability to nuke if you subvert it), more shit I am forgetting, recall spells, soul shards, and much much more shit I am forgetting, all of that is outmatched by.. lets see... research has no smgs or laser gatlings... uh, durands? (durands need mining by the way) also, dragons aren't that hard to kill, and lava staff with that thing (especially with your Xray) is hilariously lethal. did I mention the malf upgrade that makes miners the only job besides traitor ai that can nuke the station? or that they can potentially sentience potion a tendril and its first few minions, move them to the station, and fuck shit up, leaving a 5x5 lethal chasm if the crew somehow wins? or the facehuggers? or the stroke I am going to have?

[Wyzack]

I dont give a shit about the loot. Coolest thing i ever got was a SPESS MEHREEN hardsuit one time. I just like it because it gives an interesting PvE experience and chilling in a pod shelter while an ash storm rages is comfy as fuck

[MMMiracles]

Tornadium have you actually played the new mining or are you just theory-crafting out of your ass at this point I mean really.

The loot is a side-benefit of the job as a miner. It can give them an edge but seriously unless you're killing the ash drake most of the loot mining can get ahold of is easily matched/out-done by the shit research can pump out with the ore you get them.

It'd be pretty hard to justify getting eaten by an ash drake/turned into a mass of legion/frozen to death on a lavaplanet/fucked by a goliath if there wasn't some sort of reward involved past "RnD might give you some toys if they're competent".

so xray, ert armor, katanas, staffs of honkmother, champion belts, zombies, some shit i am probably forgetting, lots more cool shit I am probably forgetting, morph (kor said this is also free antag), hijack objective free antag, hijack objective free antag with all superpowers, fucking forms of null rod, TAROT CARDS WHICH GIVE YOU A RANDOM HOLOPARA, cubes which allow you to teleport, a meat hook staff that fits on your belt, stuns, teleports people to you, and can 3 hit kill (and 1 hits a borg if used at point blank), voodoo dolls, clusterbangs of fire, ai malf upgrades (including the ability to nuke if you subvert it), more shit I am forgetting, recall spells, soul shards, and much much more shit I am forgetting, all of that is outmatched by.. lets see... research has no smgs or laser gatlings... uh, durands? (durands need mining by the way) also, dragons aren't that hard to kill, and lava staff with that thing (especially with your Xray) is hilariously lethal. did I mention the malf upgrade that makes miners the only job besides traitor ai that can nuke the station? or that they can potentially sentience potion a tendril and its first few minions, move them to the station, and fuck shit up, leaving a 5x5 lethal chasm if the crew somehow wins? or the facehuggers? or the stroke I am going to have?

nicely memed, my friend.

Spoiler:

• xray (something genetics can get in literally minutes if they're lucky!!)
• theres 3 total armor sets that can be obtained, 2 are random drops from a tendril and one is from actually managing to kill the ash drake. its a bit better than the chaplain's crusader armor in terms of general defense. If you want then I can also bring in miner's explorer suits that can be buffed to 60 melee resist by just killing a few goliaths(!!!)
• i dont know about a katana but theres a pretty kickass sword you can potentially get from the ash drake loot chest
• a staff that shoots bananas and requires you to go through literal slip hell to obtain
• zombies don't exist anymore on lavaland which also means no more championship belt
• oh boy time to eat the armory and become the world's biggest pianta as the crew kicks your shit in like every other morph
• you mean the wishgranter behind 2-3 layers of indestructible walls that you can't actually get into?
• i dont really understand why maybe getting access to a nullrod is such a huge deal with all the other shit on-station just as good/better
• i don't honestly see the issue with the potential of getting tarot cards if you're lucky enough for that to roll as a drop from all the other useless shit you can potentially get (what the fuck am I suppose to do with rune metal?)
• so bluespace crystals/teleporters/jaunter. your point being?
• meat hook drags things to you and for some reason the cyborg stun thing isn't being fixed, also if it is a feature there's also these things called flashes and laser pointers, melee AND ranged cyborg stuns holy moley.
• voodoo dolls are shit man what are you talking about
• seems pretty well-themed for where its found tbh
• an upgrade from a random ruin that benefits the AI, but not the miner? also if your AI is trying to nuke the station after getting this then maybe you shouldn't of set it to anti-mov (seeing how it only gives them malf abilities but no actual malf laws)
• tendrils can't be sentience potioned anymore besides they're anchored how the hell are you going to move it on-station?
• lavastaff is iffy, might be over the top honestly

also use a fucking list you fucking lizard

[confused rock]

zombies don't exist anymore on lavaland which also means no more championship belt

also use a fucking list you fucking lizard

that was removing just the cursed shovel I thought
also ur fat
also

I dont give a shit about the loot. Coolest thing i ever got was a SPESS MEHREEN hardsuit one time. I just like it because it gives an interesting PvE experience and chilling in a pod shelter while an ash storm rages is comfy as fuck

the spess mehrine is the ert armor, and it is ash storm proof you fucking lizard

[onleavedontatme]

Almost everything you listed is outclassed by a taser though. Most of the rest was already removed or disabled. Half of it was just ported from old mining loot which existed for years without complaint.

And as impressively long as the list is, its not like you get all of that reliably every round. I am sure if I just listed everything cargo could buy (infinite traitor items!!!) or everything RD could build it'd look pretty crazy as well

@Tornadium

Lucky you got to emptyquote someone who actually played lavaland

[Pilgrim]

Yeah the mining gear isn't too overpowered because not only do miners die like flies but they don't really have anything to counter a good stun or two. Haven't had any problems as security facing off traitor miners with intimidating loot.


However, there's definitely a line being crossed in terms of how much shit you can get out of lavaland. It's starting to get a little ridiculous, and most of it is not thematically consistent. SS13 isn't an anime. Just because it's popular with players it doesn't mean it's a be-all end-all... players liked away missions but those were just cheesed to get muh boomsticks. What players "like" does not necessarily reflect in an improvement of gameplay.

[onleavedontatme]

I've been trying to keep it thematically consistent, but it's of course a bit harder now that others are contributing to it (not to say I might not have added something dumb to it).

What do you think is out of place? I axed the zombies recently for being a problem, I'm plenty open to pruning bad stuff from it.

[Slignerd]

>shit that lavaland adds is a way bigger breach

Like what?

Lavastaff a.k.a. a weapon that pretty much crits any player the moment they get shot, while creating an unerasable obstacle that sets everyone passing through on fire.

[confused rock]

>shit that lavaland adds is a way bigger breach

Like what?

Lavastaff a.k.a. a weapon that pretty much crits any player the moment they get shot, while creating an unerasable obstacle that sets everyone passing through on fire.

1. it can be erased with an rcd
2. it does not always instacrit, and good luck aiming when you are moving
3. it has a delay of like 10 seconds in between shots holy dicks

[Lumbermancer]

I've been killed as AI with Lavastaff +xray combo from outside of the core.

[Bombadil]

2 tendrils next to eachother is the worst even if you kill one you dont get the loot from the 2nd.

Please prevent tendrils from spawning right next to eachother

[Super Aggro Crag]

i think lavaland is too dark and would be vastly improved by some sort of luminescent crystal growth or plant or fungi.

[Ezel]

2 tendrils next to eachother is the worst even if you kill one you dont get the loot from the 2nd.

Please prevent tendrils from spawning right next to eachother

Unless you have a meathook so you can pull from eachother

[confused rock]

you dont need a meat hook just bluespace crystal

[Bombadil]

Wait... you can bluespace tendrils?

This changes EVERYTHING

[Bombadil]

i think lavaland is too dark and would be vastly improved by some sort of luminescent crystal growth or plant or fungi.

Crystals would be cool maybe they could grow like fungi and could be cultivated near lava. There you go Tribal lanterns/flashlights

[Takeguru]

Without coding anything new, you could have glowshrooms spreading naturally

[Bombadil]

Without coding anything new, you could have glowshrooms spreading naturally

Liggers cant make growshroom seeds and the glowshrooms only spread so far from a single point

[Takeguru]

Yes, I'm aware

I mean have them growing naturally in caves

Any ligger-made tunnels will need to be manually lit

[Steelpoint]

I still think a cool idea would be a Doom (2016) esque 'light pole' that each miner carry's in a large stack, you can throw/place these around to mark your way as a sort of life line.

I also think there should be a natural light source aside from the magma, but not something that spreads like glowshrooms.

[ShadowDimentio]

Add fissures in the rock that spew out fire for light every so often.

[Jike]

Colossus spawn too often, period.
Lavaland generation should limit boss monsters to only one or two per round
Also, maybe boss monsters should be forced to spawn far away from the mining outpost, otherwise it can ruin mining for people too quickly.

[Gamarr]

Colossus spawn too often, period.
Lavaland generation should limit boss monsters to only one or two per round
Also, maybe boss monsters should be forced to spawn far away from the mining outpost, otherwise it can ruin mining for people too quickly.

This. Also they seem to have a weird penchant for spawning wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too close to mining outpost/other spawns in general, it seems. Most of the time I've seen the boss monsters other than drake and they were sitting right outside someones door pretty much. This is bs enough with normal lavaland monsters, bosses spawning right the fuck there is awful.

[Ezel]

Colossus spawn too often, period.
Lavaland generation should limit boss monsters to only one or two per round
Also, maybe boss monsters should be forced to spawn far away from the mining outpost, otherwise it can ruin mining for people too quickly.

This. Also they seem to have a weird penchant for spawning wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too close to mining outpost/other spawns in general, it seems. Most of the time I've seen the boss monsters other than drake and they were sitting right outside someones door pretty much. This is bs enough with normal lavaland monsters, bosses spawning right the fuck there is awful.

knock knock

[Xhuis]

Colossus spawn too often, period.
Lavaland generation should limit boss monsters to only one or two per round
Also, maybe boss monsters should be forced to spawn far away from the mining outpost, otherwise it can ruin mining for people too quickly.

This. Also they seem to have a weird penchant for spawning wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too close to mining outpost/other spawns in general, it seems. Most of the time I've seen the boss monsters other than drake and they were sitting right outside someones door pretty much. This is bs enough with normal lavaland monsters, bosses spawning right the fuck there is awful.

There's a patch I have up on GitHub right now that causes colossi to spawn via a randomly-spawned ruin. That might help solve the problem to a degree.

[Gamarr]

There's a patch I have up on GitHub right now that causes colossi to spawn via a randomly-spawned ruin. That might help solve the problem to a degree.

Not sure code-wise how ruins are handled, if there is a 'cap' on the amount allowed and if so, I hope you take that into account when setting up such a 'boss spawn' area so as not to cut into the other ruins spawn chances, lest we get '3bosses and one normal ruin' or such thanks to rng.

Also saying again because it NEEDS to be said: Remove ghost observation/movement on lavaland ffs, it breaks Everything.

[Wyzack]

If ghosts and observers can not zip around lavaland how will they take the ashwalker/golem/plantman roles? Also what exactly do you think it breaks? Ghosts are already not allowed to use information they obtained in death in the round, and it is bannable to do so

[Gamarr]

If ghosts and observers can not zip around lavaland how will they take the ashwalker/golem/plantman roles? Also what exactly do you think it breaks? Ghosts are already not allowed to use information they obtained in death in the round, and it is bannable to do so

Firstly, the roles show up as orbit targets, meaning you do not need to be able to maneuver around lavaland to be able to discover them. Orbit, bottom of the list, there you go. Would like that actually changed, because someone can put ash eggs in a crate and you cannot 'click' them to spawn because of game mechanics but that's a minor issue compared to the present Ghost Problem.

As for the metagaming ghosts? Never seen any kind of enforcement on lavaland spawns ever regarding the behaviour, and this is probably because of how bs it is to usually handle 'metagaming ghosts' that nobody seems to want to bother? I'm not going to stop harping on it, because it is an issue given the now prevalent amount of loot and different spawns in the lava.

Ashlanders going in a straight line for the outpost or a nearby Envy knife/Morph syringe is something I've watched more than once, which is enabled by ghosts pretty much scouting their entire area and having that influence their 'do I play' or not. It's supposedly against the rules to use that knowledge to do that but how many times have I seen an admin pm to a spawn that did it? Zero. Maybe they police it more on Sybil, but I somehow doubt this.

This is why it is just better to remove ghosts movement on the z-level codewise, when it can be done. I know I've made the comparison before, but Goon? Adventure maps have it turned off to protect ruining of the adventure in the different worlds by ghosts that would scour their secrets if allowed. This is no different, and it is a good choice; there is nothing gained by letting the ghosts maneuver there and as I already pointed out, you can access the spawns via orbit.

Edit: Final thing I forgot to mention, the prevalence of spawns in the lava going for the loot that they can see likewise robs miners of the opportunity. Rarely see a miner get morph for instance, instead it's some ash walker or whatever else hitting it because its 20 tiles away from their spawn, then faffing around/dying since morphs don't have night-vision.

[Wyzack]

Good point, fund it

Even if admins did start enforcing it properly they can not exactly orbit every single lavaland spawn at once

[Sidon]

Metagaming as a ghost like this happens on the station as well anyway. It's not a big deal outside of using it to take someone out of the round.

[Ezel]

Gibbed has this tho where you cant explore away mission z levels wouldnt be too special for lavaland would it you could still orbit poeple on the land but just not explore it by yourself

[MMMiracles]

Gibbed has this tho where you cant explore away mission z levels wouldnt be too special for lavaland would it you could still orbit poeple on the land but just not explore it by yourself

Someone already tried this and people complained enough to have the PR closed. Main argument being 'its an open source game so why bother trying to hide secrets'.

I personally think its a stupid argument because most of the community doesn't even look at the forums, let alone the github to find said secrets but w/e.

[Ezel]

Yes its a open source game
But random generation tho you cant beat that by looking into github

[Gamarr]

Someone already tried this and people complained enough to have the PR closed. Main argument being 'its an open source game so why bother trying to hide secrets'.

I personally think its a stupid argument because most of the community doesn't even look at the forums, let alone the github to find said secrets but w/e.

The logic of hiding hiding our map from ghosts other than Observing/Orbit has nothing to do with hiding secrets of that type, because goon adventure mode is a gigantic puzzlefuck and lavaland is not.
What we have is a massive PVE maze, with rng spawns for pvp. Except the ghosts that make up the pvp element are fucking allowed to cheat and fully do so to get all the cool shit ASAP if they at all can, then cheat/meta they way towards the station to be the biggest asshole they possibly can. It has to do with keeping shit from being exploited because of the randomly spawned locations and loot, that sometimes happens right outside a doorstep.