Planetary Station """""design""""" document

[ThanatosRa]

Bottom post of the previous page:

The thing is, with the Scenario idea, it DOES need a proof of concept. Kor's idea, I think, is the best place to start this proof of concept.


Also, I want it partially to spite Luke because fuck him.

[Luke Cox]

The thing is, with the Scenario idea, it DOES need a proof of concept. Kor's idea, I think, is the best place to start this proof of concept.


Also, I want it partially to spite Luke because fuck him.

By all means make the proof of concept, just do so with the understanding that it's going to play out similarly regardless of antags and that people aren't going to want to play it every round.

Also fuck you too

[onleavedontatme]

play out similarly regardless of antags

I feel like you really need to explain in detail how you think an average round of this is going to go. You've created some imaginary game in your head that nobody else in this thread seems to see to the point that you unironically called it Left 4 Dead

Do you think rev/nuke/wizard/traitor play the same on our current map? Why would they play the same on this one?

[Luke Cox]

Corruption will slowly spread to the station, and there is the constant threat of mob waves attacking the station. Is that correct?

[Scott]

Had we antag datums, we could have maps designed for specific kinds of antags to try out new ways of playing SS13. Kind of like custom maps in shooters/strategy games being their own game.

as I said above, we don't need antag datums for this.

Isn't antag datums just boilerplate for game modes? I'd rather have that than having to copypaste or rewrite a gamemode every time.

[TrustyGun]

You wouldn't need to rewrite gamemodes. Just make it so you can stop certain gamemodes from working on certain maps (In the map's json file maybe?) and make a gamemode just for planetstation.

No need for huge rewrites or antag datums.

[Remie Richards]

Had we antag datums, we could have maps designed for specific kinds of antags to try out new ways of playing SS13. Kind of like custom maps in shooters/strategy games being their own game.

as I said above, we don't need antag datums for this.

Isn't antag datums just boilerplate for game modes? I'd rather have that than having to copypaste or rewrite a gamemode every time.

Are you even sure of what you're saying here? Boilerplate is bad.

[Durkel]

There's no real point arguing over things until kor drops a more detailed design document. Until then we're dealing with a mind boggling amount of possibilities on how to handle our current systems.

Like take a AI for instance, Having a AI drop down in a crash is silly and would be extremely limited and there's a lot of ways to handle it such as :

1. Have no AI job at all.
2. AI is a ghost role that comes on line when power systems are restored.
3. AI is initially the aliens defense system and active at start to slow down humans but can be converted or killed shortly in the round.

Until we get a 100% "okay, This is what's going to happen and we can change or improve it somewhat" there's no reason to argue.

[Remie Richards]

Yes there is, and to think otherwise is dumb.
We don't need a fully fleshed out design document to ensure all the systems are prepped and ready, it'd be foolish to wait for that point.

[Qbopper]

There's no real point arguing over things until kor drops a more detailed design document. Until then we're dealing with a mind boggling amount of possibilities on how to handle our current systems.

Yes there is, and to think otherwise is dumb.
We don't need a fully fleshed out design document to ensure all the systems are prepped and ready, it'd be foolish to wait for that point.

You're both correct

There's no point in trying to fight specific details when we don't have any yet, but you can comment on the general design/etc.

Insisting on some specific vision you're imagining planetstation to be like and starting arguments over it is dumb - reading the thread and having discussions on what has been proposed is valid

This is obviously my opinion, but really, there's little point in arguing over specifics when the specifics don't exist

[onleavedontatme]

There's no real point arguing over things until kor drops a more detailed design document. Until then we're dealing with a mind boggling amount of possibilities on how to handle our current systems.

Like take a AI for instance, Having a AI drop down in a crash is silly and would be extremely limited and there's a lot of ways to handle it such as :

1. Have no AI job at all.
2. AI is a ghost role that comes on line when power systems are restored.
3. AI is initially the aliens defense system and active at start to slow down humans but can be converted or killed shortly in the round.

Until we get a 100% "okay, This is what's going to happen and we can change or improve it somewhat" there's no reason to argue.

There is just going to be a regular AI on a regular satellite except in the ocean. This aims to be as close to the current game as possible other than the wilderess/monsters, no shuttle, and no cargo.

[Durkel]

What's the plan for replacing the lost jobs for cargo/genetics. Just let them fill up the other roles since cargo was mostly tertiary anyway?

[MMMiracles]

I can imagine cargo's position being replaced with people just scavenging the place around the station for ruins to restock supplies. Not necessarily a new job to replace them, just "send a team of 2-3 people out to check out the nearby structure(s) and come back with whatever they can find". Not like there was much cargo could order that wasn't already renewable by other means on-station, with the exception of obvious stuff like armor and special items.

[XDTM]

It could be rolled into the engineering department and run a "factory", which could pretty much make most stock items on the station, taking some away from autolathes, which would be a smaller and less elaborate version, and protolathes, which should only make experimental or specialistic items.

[Wyzack]

Fuck we need a stalker job now to scavenge the wilderness for anomalies

[Dr_bee]

I can imagine cargo's position being replaced with people just scavenging the place around the station for ruins to restock supplies. Not necessarily a new job to replace them, just "send a team of 2-3 people out to check out the nearby structure(s) and come back with whatever they can find". Not like there was much cargo could order that wasn't already renewable by other means on-station, with the exception of obvious stuff like armor and special items.

Hell, you could replace the cargo shuttle with "scavanger drones" that you can send out for 5 minutes at a time to collect certain types of items, with a random chance to get them from a list of items. So if you send them to get medical supplies, they may find a sleeper board, they may find a burn kit, they may fine a large amount of poppy seeds or you may get a xenomorph egg for shits and giggles.

[kevinz000]

Can we make this multi z so I can put on​ a flight suit and fly into a mountain?

[Qbopper]

Can we make this multi z so I can put on​ a flight suit and fly into a mountain?

do it irl please ty

non shitpost: I think planetstation is radical enough on its own without multiple z levels, though if others are in favour of the idea i'll go soak my head

[Iatots]

Could z-level implementation be better defined?
How many pressurized z-levels can the server handle? How would fauna move from one to the other? What will the transition zone look like?

[onleavedontatme]

It is planned to be multi z. Jungle/station turfs will break to chasms, and you will fall down to lavaland caves/maint. There will be elevators (shuttles) and ladders in the base.

There will be a space z level as well, accessed via a shuttle.

[onleavedontatme]

Planet turfs reset their air courtesy of MSO so it shouldn't be an issue for the server

[Iatots]

Will there be only 1 "stack" of z-levels or will they branch out?

[onleavedontatme]

One stack

[Armhulen]

That kinda sucks but we rarely run out of lavaland in a normal round so it should be fine

[Remie Richards]

One stack

Any particular reason?

[Armhulen]

One stack

Any particular reason?

yeah this kinda blows but then again

That kinda sucks but we rarely run out of lavaland in a normal round so it should be fine

[Iatots]

That kinda sucks but we rarely run out of lavaland in a normal round so it should be fine

Yeah but will we run out of jungle? Depending on how big the station is, with a modest population the "normal" z-level would be half station. Unless we can finally into >255 sq. levels.

[MMMiracles]

One stack seems pretty lame and doesn't leave much room for stuff outside the station, unless the plan is to actually make z-levels larger in general.

[onleavedontatme]

One stack

Any particular reason?

Having three large z levels just seems easier to manage than having the same amount of space broken up over X (times 3) Z levels and dealing with transitions/building a 3d spacecube so chasms work/weather/having AI attempt transitions and so on.

I cant think of any advantages to splitting it up personally

[onleavedontatme]

Unless I am mistaken we can manage much larger than 255×255

[Remie Richards]

performance is one.
3 large Zs would perform worse than the same amount of space put into chunks.

Also, we can't go much above 255x255, asteroidstation was like, 300x300 and in TGM form asteroidstation was too big for byond to handle, something Lummox still hasn't looked into for us.
granted, asteroidstation was 7 300x300s, If you had your 3 you'd only be able to have say, 450x450 at a guess (300x300x7 is 630000, so we know we can't have that, 450x450x3 is 607500, which may still be pushing it)

[onleavedontatme]

Could we not just use DMM for planetstation if its not workable otherwise?

Or do the wildnerness in DMM, and use the maploader to put the TGM station at a landmark during set up (as I understand it TGM is purely for handling conflicts, and the wilderness wouldn't be getting updated nearly as often as the station would, I don't think)

[Durkel]

How's this for a shitty first draft concept of a potential station? I like the idea of having some of the station being exposed to the weather and to reach the other areas you either have to brave it or wait for the storm to pass. So the areas over the river would be a exposed bridge, the path to the dock would be exposed and potentially some another area.

Spoiler:

Just shooting out a concept for one more than anything. What do we want the station to look like in terms of a organization?

[iamgoofball]

Could we not just use DMM for planetstation if its not workable otherwise?

Or do the wildnerness in DMM, and use the maploader to put the TGM station at a landmark during set up (as I understand it TGM is purely for handling conflicts, and the wilderness wouldn't be getting updated nearly as often as the station would, I don't think)

The problem was it wouldn't compile

BUT WE USE MAPLOADER NOW

[captain sawrge]

Having the station be an actual compound with different buildings is actually a pretty cool idea

[Bombadil]

Having the station be an actual compound with different buildings is actually a pretty cool idea

>When you want to run to security but the acid rain stops you

[Wyzack]

Isnt that how junglestation was?

[captain sawrge]

Isnt that how junglestation was?

We don't talk about that anymore.

[chanoc1]

i would love to see this succeed, its such a great concept, but im not sure if it will be worked to completion :^I

[onleavedontatme]

This thread is near unreadable, I'm going to divide everything into separate topics of discussion.

[Lumbermancer]

Woah so it's a thing people are doing huh.

[Qbopper]

you didn't add me as a mapper to the list im sad now

[onleavedontatme]

I'm a very disorganized person sorry

[imblyings]

[Steelpoint]

-snip-

This makes the whole endevor seem worthwhile.

[Screemonster]

I'm now picturing the horrible corruption/mobs being a slowly-encroaching thing that make "not in the compound" dangerous but otherwise don't play a huge part in the usual traitor/rev/cult/whatever rounds - but another roundtype where they're ramped the fuck up.

Kinda like how meteors are kinda there in normal rounds but not gamechanging - except when it's meteor mode.

[peoplearestrange]

Im not sure if its been mentioned yet, but is there anyway we can scale the corruption spread to the current player controlled mobs in play? I.e. the more people alive and playing, the more quickly it spreads. Thus on low pop people have longer to do the tasks as there are less people to get it done quicker.

[Steelpoint]

I think someone mentioned that earlier @peoplearestrange.

The general suggestion was to scale the spread of the corruption based on the active population and possibly other (player influenced?) factors.

[Jazaen]

We could scale it with relation to gamemode, with non-conversion multiple antags (tator, lings, DA, blob, Ayys 1 and 2) having normal corruption spread, conversion antags (cult 1 and 2, rev, possibly gangs) having slower corruption spread to account for large parts of crew not working towards escaping, and off-station antags (wizards, nukeops) having almost no corruption, due to different victory conditions in case of wizard and general destruction in case of nukeops.

[Remie Richards]

It's the NECROpolis, scale it with the amount of dead.
This encourages rescuing people and not dying like a moron, you're actively making it hungrier.

[killerx09]

Shiiit, that's a brilliant idea.

Might even discourage traitors from murderboning too.