2k17 /pol/

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:43 pm #340773

Bottom post of the previous page:

Honestly, the only reason to want Königsberg it's not Kalniningrad fuckdammit back is because it was Immanuel Kant's hometown and Hannah Arendt's, I guess.

Aside from that I've been told it's a shithole.

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:00 pm #340777

XSI wrote:
CosmicScientist wrote: Oh oh oh! Political question time! Why does Russia have Kaliningrad and the surrounding area above Poland and to the west of Lithuania?
In complete honesty, they just sorta took it after WW2 and declared it to be a part of Russia. That's all there is to it. Beat other country, take clay
They've apparently offered to sell it back to Germany at one point but Germany (Read: German politicians worried about having to pander to more voters) didn't want it, so now it's just sorta there and they made the best of it by just building a bunch of army stuff on it
Of course this is not detailed or anything, but I've not really looked into it that much so that's what I can get you on it

You forgot to mention German civilians were held as "reparations labour" by the USSR. 473,013 people have been confirmed killed in soviet camps with 1,905,991 unsolved cases.

That being said I don't remember Kalingrad being offered back to Germany. If I recall Germany asked for it back: Russia said no.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... sberg.html

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:05 pm #340778

Oh no, those poor germans, working to restore the country they destroyed.

lntigracy · Post by **lntigracy** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:08 pm #340779

What ever happened with Poland suing Germany for war reparations when they threatened them after they were refusing to take refugees?

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:19 pm #340782

InsaneHyena wrote:Oh no, those poor germans, working to restore the country they destroyed.

Before being betrayed by the axis

>Invade Poland with Nazis
>Invade Finland
>Invade Baltic states
>Invade Romania

After WW2
>Keep eastern Europe in puppet dictatorships
>Kill Czechoslovakian children trying to cross border during Czech's failed move for independence
soooo much more.

Don't ever pretend that the Russians weren't culpable for their issues.
The United States weren't saints but for fucks sake we didn't do half the shit you did.

Russia destroyed their own country by allowing psuedo-communism to flourish.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:28 pm #340784

Starmute, didn't you get the memo? Russia did nothing wrong, ever.

cedarbridge · Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:24 pm

InsaneHyena wrote:Oh no, those poor germans, working to restore the country they destroyed.

>unironically defending Soviet slavery

ColonicAcid · Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:24 pm

InsaneHyena wrote:
starmute wrote: Anyone in their right mind would be anti-Russia
Every time I think "Starmute can't possibly top the previous retarded thing it said", and every time I turn out to be wrong.

shut your mouth u fucking stereotype

InsaneHyena · Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:29 pm

starmute wrote: Russia destroyed their own country by allowing psuedo-communism to flourish.

pseudo-communism

Jesus, please save me

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:29 pm #340800

cedarbridge wrote:
InsaneHyena wrote:Oh no, those poor germans, working to restore the country they destroyed.
>unironically defending Soviet slavery

more like slav-ery amirite

lntigracy · Post by **lntigracy** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:39 pm #340806

InsaneHyena wrote:
starmute wrote: Russia destroyed their own country by allowing psuedo-communism to flourish.

pseudo-communism
Jesus, please save me

it's not REAL communism

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:42 pm #340808

Apparently even Marx said he philosophy was bullshit.

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:09 pm #340823

lntigracy wrote: it's not REAL communism

IMO it actually was "A dictatorship" hiding under the idealism of communism (which can't exist due to human nature).

Its the same as "democracy". There is no current democracies, only republics.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:14 pm #340827

"communism is the same as democracy"
-starmute 2017

ColonicAcid · Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:19 pm

>virtually all industry is owned by the government and centralised
>"gobbunism ends"
>virtually all industry is owned by figures connected to the government.

the only difference is your ass can get mcdonalds...

Incomptinence · Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:24 pm

calzilla1 wrote:
Incomptinence wrote:
bandit wrote:>implying that the last five decades if not more of world history, and definitely the last two, have not involved various countries collectively pissing in the Middle East's cheerios
Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

The middle east is made of pissed cheerios from the ground up.

The fertile crescent is important to ancient history and shit but at this point entire place has been a mess for centuries before the ottoman's or post ww1 map drawing ever happened.

Fighting over this shitty region is so pointless I say just get it over with exile all humans from the manifestly unholy land then salt the earth / glass the shit pile so our species expends no more resources on this geographical time waster.
>forgetting about oil

Glassing the middle east is my renewable energy inventive.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:48 pm #340846

CosmicScientist wrote:
ColonicAcid wrote:>virtually all industry is owned by the government and centralised
>"gobbunism ends"
>virtually all industry is owned by figures connected to the government.

http://puu.sh/xISEG/88fcde70af.jpg

the only difference is your ass can get mcdonalds...
Isn't that fascism?

Compromise?

ShadowDimentio · Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:21 am

There's only like an inch of difference between Communism and Nazi-ism

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:34 am #340863

DemonFiren wrote:"communism is the same as democracy"
-starmute 2017

Both do not exist

Democracy would be rule by the masses with no elected representatives

Communism would be from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

lntigracy · Post by **lntigracy** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:01 am #340875

DemonFiren wrote:
CosmicScientist wrote:
ColonicAcid wrote:>virtually all industry is owned by the government and centralised
>"gobbunism ends"
>virtually all industry is owned by figures connected to the government.

http://puu.sh/xISEG/88fcde70af.jpg

the only difference is your ass can get mcdonalds...
Isn't that fascism?

Compromise?

ShadowDimentio · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:04 am

ShadowDimentio wrote:There's only like an inch of difference between Communism and Nazi-ism

ShadowDimentio · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:22 am

"""True""" democracies don't exist because it's totally unfeasible for people to vote for the constant things that need to be done in governments, it's considered a good year when 80% of a population of a country show up for presidential elections or an equivalent, and those only happen once every few years.

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:32 am #340888

CosmicScientist wrote:

starmute wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:"communism is the same as democracy"
-starmute 2017
Both do not exist

Democracy would be rule by the masses with no elected representatives

Communism would be from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
Communism sounds like a minmaxer's wet dream and surely democracy is impossible outside of small scale if you do not consider representatives to be an extension of the rule of the people? I mean, the people are stupid and the representatives are stupid so that sounds right for democracy.

Well stated.

However, representatives are not the extension of the rule of the people. Its far easier to bribe one person than to bribe everyone with "campaign donations", the wealthy have more influence than some homeless man or the ordinary citizen.

ShadowDimentio wrote:"""True""" democracies don't exist because it's totally unfeasible for people to vote for the constant things that need to be done in governments, it's considered a good year when 80% of a population of a country show up for presidential elections or an equivalent, and those only happen once every few years.

In theory if you had some way to easily compute the information available, you could have a rational consensus government where people could compile and instantly vote based on preferences.

Such technology isn't available.

Super Aggro Crag · Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:15 am

Jc denton did it in deus ex 2

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:53 am #340909

Super Aggro Crag wrote:Jc denton did it in deus ex 2

Not the one I was thinking about but looked it up

Have my

"crag is right again"

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:59 am #340915

I've been talking to a legit communist occasionally, and from what I've learned there is one big lesson about communism
The other guys are doing it wrong. Always. There's a lot of different kinds of communism and they all hate eachother, and most of them hate the soviet union too

Also on Köningsberg, yeah. I've got nothing. Just repeating shit I heard since I've yet to look into it. The area doesn't really have much interest for me past WW2

ShadowDimentio · Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:08 am

"It wasn't REAL communism!" -Communists describing communist countries

The only lesson people need to learn about communism is that someone always has to get fucked over. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a fast way to make sure nobody is happy* and everyone is equally miserable, not to mention it's an EXTREMELY good reason for everyone with any skills that you might need to, say, fill vital roles in the country to flee, hence why the Berlin Wall was to keep people in, not out.

*Except the people running the show, they always ~mysteriously prosper~

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:39 am #340923

ShadowDimentio wrote:"It wasn't REAL communism!" -Communists describing communist countries

The only lesson people need to learn about communism is that someone always has to get fucked over. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a fast way to make sure nobody is happy* and everyone is equally miserable, not to mention it's an EXTREMELY good reason for everyone with any skills that you might need to, say, fill vital roles in the country to flee, hence why the Berlin Wall was to keep people in, not out.

*Except the people running the show, they always ~mysteriously prosper~

Communism only exists as a ideal.

The book Animal farm is a very good book. It not only shows the shitty excesses of communism but it shows capitalism in a unfavorable light as well.

I think the quote
"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" applies no matter what society you are in.

Any society will fuck specific people over..
Some societies will fuck over it's populous more than others though. I can say that no idea of government humanity currently has or has had is without it's flaws despite the examples of good and bad governments.

XSI wrote:I've been talking to a legit communist occasionally, and from what I've learned there is one big lesson about communism
The other guys are doing it wrong. Always. There's a lot of different kinds of communism and they all hate each other, and most of them hate the soviet union too

Also on Köningsberg, yeah. I've got nothing. Just repeating shit I heard since I've yet to look into it. The area doesn't really have much interest for me past WW2

Not really a supporter of Marxism myself but I'll tell ya that people will defend their ideals to the death even if they know they are wrong. Click spoilers for more details.

Spoiler:

A long time ago when I was in Jr High I learned "ipse se nihil scire id unum sciat" or that "I know that I know nothing". Keep in mind even though you have prejudices against people (and we all form prejudices against each other), there are some times when you are wrong and the other person is right. I know next to nothing about wood-crafting, about aircraft design or bike maintenance even with "good grades in school" and a college degree.

That being said I'm sure I have a hard head sometimes. Call me out on my shit if I act this way. Then again I'm in Vegas right now and it clouds my judgement a bit so I might be sharing too much about myself.

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:05 pm #340955

CosmicScientist wrote:
Oh and going back to that Adam Ruins clip, there's a sense of smug superiority that rubs the wrong way. I don't know if that's by design since that would mean the makers assume the viewers could realise their prejudice, feel confliction and come to the conclusion that the video is right rather than just hit the downvote for causing negative feelings. The rest of it I could probably armchair it and say they are cliche designs although sadly I can only go as far as armchair since I can't tell you what cliche designs aren't in the video rather than work off my own steam:
normal presenter getting beaten up verbally and physically to relieve the audience after being told by this know-it-all what the facts are/they have misconceptions

gender divide (majority female audience with audience surrogate?), same sex beating up same sex isn't as much of a contrast and it may also be tying into common concept of woman weak, man stwong to not turn people off either being unstimulating mentally or repelling for playing into a bad stereotype (or again, majority female audience might be playing in on this one, give the audience a surrogate because no-one wants to see gastropod the stinky green alien winning or being right when no-one is even close to being gastropod the stinky green alien, it's like how in Futurama, Fry was the audience surrogate exploring everything and coincidentally, an important word, the writing got shit about the time he became familiar with the future), feel free to hate me on this one starmute, I'm trying to stay gender neutral but this was the conclusion I came to after I took a very strong dislike to muh man being beaten up by da woman of evil

quick reference mentions just like a paper I had to do for university! making it appear professional (although that is a tad misleading because this isn't a paper, no-one is using this as research material, youtube is not responsible for making sure this material they are hosting isn't lying or misinterpreting findings in the reference material and without looking up the reference material, I can't even say they are reliable with how they're presented in the video, although papers do suffer a flaw of needing to look at the references to not consider a paper founded on them to be baseless, I mean if you're being paid enough)

subtle (but forced) facial and verbal tone changes
Okay I'm going to stop there. They know what they're doing. If I put it one way, it's by the book but lacks sincerity. If I put it another way, it's manipulative in a way that scares me if they have a concerning message to push. And if I find a third way to put it, they come to a mostly right but simplistic conclusion for a video designed for amusement rather than to provoke thought, however the serious end doesn't justify the jokey means.

Three points

Nobody likes watching a man beating up a woman or a woman beating up a man. Women complain it's abuse, men complain it's some kind of female superiority complex or whatever.
I'll admit its a crummy video but it makes some valid points that I can't find fault in.

Last point and I like to stress this: Vegas really affects my judgement and I shouldn't post college humor stuff ever.

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:49 pm #341052

The vid is right about the point it tries to make, but it makes it in a really poor way

You do not change people's minds by arguing with them
People change their own minds if they have access to the information, look into the information and have no pressure to change their viewpoints about something. This is why "Here's a study about this which brings up interesting points, you might like it" is more effective than "You're wrong because scientists agree with me and I can prove it with this link (Insert link to near-onion tier website here)"

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:13 am #341180

CosmicScientist wrote:
Nuuu. Post college humor stuff. Just not that weird Adam Ruins thing, it even seems to attract everyone to post politics in the comments and everyone calls Adam an SJW and then aaall the buzzwords appear.

Seriously, I get too excited and start being too friendly. In 2004 I was doxxed by being stupid. Never trust people on the internet, share pictures or video.

Incomptinence · Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:41 am

Amateur hour guilt-triping.

Oh nooo the land was stolen!

Why not think about something like how the decomposing massacred natives have had some of their biomass slowly incorporated into food crops due to natural processes and your fat ass contains stolen nutrients Adam?

Might as well eat soylent red at this point.

ShadowDimentio · Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:48 pm

I was born here, I have just as much claim to the land as any native.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:58 am #341490

ShadowDimentio wrote:I was born here, I have just as much claim to the land as any native.

Right of conquest.

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:21 am #341494

Being born somewhere doesn't necessarily give you the right to claim that land
But it is a pretty big advantage and definitely helps

ShadowDimentio · Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:42 am

To the victor goes the spoils

Not saying it's very fair, but back when the US was founded and the natives were getting fucked they got off pretty easy all things considered for that era.

Incomptinence · Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:37 am

Waiver the Jones MERKIN ONLEEEE shipping act for Houston and Florida for disaster relief efforts.

Refuse to waiver in Puerto RIco because business interests.

Blah de dah, bad president.

Look at all the business opportunities!

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:49 am #341553

Incomptinence wrote:Waiver the Jones MERKIN ONLEEEE shipping act for Houston and Florida for disaster relief efforts.

Refuse to waiver in Puerto RIco because business interests.
Blah de dah, bad president.
https://i.imgur.com/9Ia1boF.jpg
Look at all the business opportunities!

I'm not going to argue morality here but I would bet if Puerto Rico got to vote (they are a territory instead of a state) he probably would change his tune.

Super Aggro Crag · Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:57 am

Puerto rico doesnt want to be a state

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:04 am #341556

Super Aggro Crag wrote:Puerto rico doesnt want to be a state

2012 statehood vote

Of those who answered on the second question 834,191 (61.11%) chose statehood, 454,768 (33.34%) chose free association, and 74,895 (5.55%) chose independence

Sounds like they want to be part of the US to me

Incomptinence · Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:49 am

Stupid Puerto Ricans wanting statehood they can't have.

Wonder how high the price of bottled water will go above the regular doubled price.

[youtube]nXDwIo5_AMo[/youtube]

Post by **oranges** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:15 am #341573

ShadowDimentio wrote:back when the US was founded and the natives were getting fucked they got off pretty easy all things considered for that era.

This is a joke comment right

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:23 am #341574

shadowmemes is incapable of ironic shitposting
he really means what he says

ColonicAcid · Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:37 am

ShadowDimentio wrote:To the victor goes the spoils

Not saying it's very fair, but back when the US was founded and the natives were getting fucked they got off pretty easy all things considered for that era.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:41 am #341582

Why do the US still bother with Puerto Rico? Is there any actual advantage from having it as a territory, besides "more clay"? It seems to me that any profit you gain from it goes down the drain when such things happen, yes obviously you can refuse to send help but only for so long. Not to mention the constant threat to republicans in case dems reach power and make it a state. Could the US just unilaterally cut them free?

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:12 pm #341588

Grazyn wrote:Why do the US still bother with Puerto Rico? Is there any actual advantage from having it as a territory, besides "more clay"? It seems to me that any profit you gain from it goes down the drain when such things happen, yes obviously you can refuse to send help but only for so long. Not to mention the constant threat to republicans in case dems reach power and make it a state. Could the US just unilaterally cut them free?

If you claim clay you must support clay in theory. Currently we are seeing "in practice"

Also companies use the "territory" status of Puerto Rico to get away with some shadiness while still being in the US.

Also trump wanted to "buy it" back when he was campaigning.
https://www.tripsavvy.com/does-donald-t ... co-1622033

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:23 pm #341712

oranges wrote:
ShadowDimentio wrote:back when the US was founded and the natives were getting fucked they got off pretty easy all things considered for that era.
This is a joke comment right

I mean, compared to absolute extermination, I'd wager living in a shitty play pen at the crappy end of the yard is a step above.

lntigracy · Post by **lntigracy** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:26 pm #341713

the first ghettos

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:33 pm #341716

lntigracy wrote:the first ghettos

Ironicly the first ghettos were considered a step up for jews.

captain sawrge · Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:34 pm

wimbledon

ShadowDimentio · Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:34 pm

cedarbridge wrote:I mean, compared to absolute extermination, I'd wager living in a shitty play pen at the crappy end of the yard is a step above.

Exactly.