Let's talk Double-Esword

[yackemflam]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Blah

I wonder what actual data says about shotguns.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 69#p250469

Lets imply you are implying that the shotgunner does NOT have rng on his side.

I'll counter with this. (Please say otherwise if I'm wrong)

LOTS OF FUCKING MATH HERE

Each pellet does 3 normal health damage and 25 stamina damage

Health and stamina are tied together so you need 4 pellets to weaken someone into basically a crit. (You can punch them to death at this point since they cant get back up.)

A rubber shot shell shoots 6 shots when used and you have a 75% chance EACH to hit the desword target.

By math they have a 17.8~% to block ALL shots at once. (.75 * .75 * .75 * .75 * .75 * .75)

A riot shotgun can hold up to 7 shells before you are out of ammo and have to reload (1 in chamber + 6 in the tube)

Math wise it's next to impossible to block all of the shots with the desword (0.000566~% chance small)

You have a good chance 1 or 2 shots is going to hit them. (6 * .25 = 1.5)

On average you'll need to shoot only 3 times to take them down, 4 if you are unlucky. 5 if you are super unlucky.

If you are lucky you need only 1 or 2 shells.

But this is point blank only.

Lets say you can only get 3 hits per shell. (shotgun spread) (3 * .25 = .75)

on average you need 5 shells to take the desword user down. 6-7 if unlucky. 2-4 if lucky.

If they don't go down here's what you do, walk away and reload. that shit takes only 10 seconds to get like 4 shells in fast.

And if they try to run away, chase them. You dont need to be in melee range to be effective.

So yes, the rng IS in favor of the shotgunner.

I swear you guys are like the wow's lead balance designer.

Spoiler:

If you get a partner, even if one of you goes down. The other guy can just shoot the desword user. Lowering the deswords user chance by a metric fuck ton.

And if you cant access the armory. Run away from them, and come back with 4-5 friends. You all dont evn need to be armed to push spam his ass down and kill his ass with his own sword.

[Weepo]

Lemee tell you a trick thats SUPER effective against an esword:

Track and field, that's right. Work your fucking legs and walk real fast to get the fuck outta there, if you run around the halls eventually they'll pass by beepsky or a sec officer or even a witness and you'll be safe since they'll be distracted.

The trick is: 90% of you don't have a responsibility to 'stop' an esword at all. Its not your fucking job, if you play medical and you think 'wow I really wish I had more options to deal with that' and go on to complain when you find yourself cut into confetti because you spotted a swordman and thought 'I could disarm this guy' than you're not only a part of the problem but you're adding to a false dichotomy.

I will agree that duel eswords are dull as fucking dirt and don't really fit MY personal vision of a stealthy double agent traitor type, but its hard to deny that a double esword is a pretty great 'OH SHIT', like the traitor version of sprouting an armblade and tentacling someone close.

Carp is probably worse TBH, fuck that dumb item.

[XDTM]

No they don't need melee weapons with an insane reflect percentage and melee deflection.

Yes, they do, they're alone against the whole station. And if they have double esword, chances are they don't have other tools against the hordes of validhunting assistants out to get them.

If they're alone against the whole station on open combat they did something wrong and shouldn't receive a weapon that actually enables them to go 1v20. This encourages deathmatch gameplay which frankly sucks for anyone who doesn't start with sec or traitor gear.

No they don't need a infinite stungun that causes fucking rad damage.

Yes, they do, it's literally a slightly improved taser.

Antagonists do not exist to be on the equal ground with the rest of the crew.

Ebows aren't just 10 tox damage tasers, they're unlimited and silent, which pretty much means that you can permastun about three people until they die, since the projectile is also barely visible and thus hard to dodge.

Antagonists should have an advantage over the average crewmember, not the whole rest of the crew.

[Incomptinence]

Honestly a rebuffed ebow would also be better than blanket near immunity.

[Doctor Pork]

I've come to terms with x2Esword, but the Ebow will never not be a garbage item for garbage people.

[Incomptinence]

Why yes an outnumbered traitor might need powerful items to even the score and make things interesting. This leads to powerful items getting added, then gang banged by removalists toting the ^GOTTA BE SKILT^ argument.

Is near immunity a good rendition of that? I don't think so it's like the good old invisibility cloak but even more slap shod.

[oranges]

ebow is garbage, alway will be

[Steelpoint]

I've made my peace with the Double Esword. But its the ebow I'll never like.

At least with a Parapen you have to stab the target in melee, at least with a revolver you have to shoot someone with expensive ammo, at least with a esword you need to hit them in melee while making a lot of noise.

[Armhulen]

at least with parapen? that pen is garbo and you know it

[CPTANT]

at least with parapen? that pen is garbo and you know it

Only if you are a scrub and don't combine it with the poison kit.

[Armhulen]

I ALWAYS FORGET THAT. At this point the original sleepiness of the pen is just a noob trap and we should have it spawn empty.

[Lumbermancer]

>tfw you forget to throw glass shards

[cedarbridge]

>tfw you forget to throw glass shards

This is exactly the round I was referencing in the post that was mysteriously deleted in this thread. The antag in question was never spotted with his sword until he literally ran out in the hallway with it and even that didn't really matter.

[AnonymousNow]

Personally I see the double E-sword in its current form as being both a symbol and enabler of one of the biggest crimes in this game - boring murderboning for the sake of boring murderboning.

Make them consistently fail to block ballistics. Give them a snowflake weakness against stunbatons, so that they each can block each other at the same rate. Something.

[D&B]

They already have counters.

They just seem stronger than they are because anything is stronger if people are inexperienced AND people balance around the idea that everyone with an double esword as an extremely prepared person when most of the time it's just people leaving their department and going on a rampage almost roundstart