Administration General Feedback

onleavedontatme · Wed May 17, 2017 11:28 am

Bottom post of the previous page:

Reread qboppers question. It is "so its okay to kill him once I get cloned" not "so I can kill anyone ever in future rounds"

There isnt context missing if you are asking whether you can retaliate against a specific person who just killed you.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Wed May 17, 2017 12:02 pm #294940

Yes but that's not always what's asked

It's "is he an antag"
or
"So he's a traitor right?"

And as I said, it basically allllllllllll boils down to
Admin judgement of the situation. Dont take the lazy way out. Dont take the kor route

onleavedontatme · Wed May 17, 2017 12:08 pm

Yes but that's not always what's asked

That's great, but I asked Qbopper about a very specific question

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Wed May 17, 2017 12:10 pm #294942

I feel like qbopper brought up something less related to the debate. Not exactly what was being discussed.

You still havent backed up your 90% number

onleavedontatme · Wed May 17, 2017 12:14 pm

NikNakFlak wrote:I feel like qbopper brought up something less related to the debate. Not exactly what was being discussed.

Then why are you trying to frame it in the debate?

NikNakFlak wrote: You still havent backed up your 90% number

What is there to back up? "Like 90%" is clearly an estimate, such as saying "almost always" or "most of the time."

If you actually want a massive list of actions that are both usually bannable unless the person acting is a traitor, and also an acceptable reason to kill someone, I'm sure I could make one, but if feels more like you just want to fight me for whatever reason.

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Wed May 17, 2017 1:02 pm #294962

Owegno wrote:
Qbopper wrote:I try to say something "I'll look into it" - it keeps people satisfied in that I'm not ignoring them, it doesn't give them info on who's an antag in case they get back in the round, and if I know the person in question is an antag then I can just move on

It's not perfect and they can usually find out on their own as a ghost if X is an antag but I've always felt the one word "valid" or "X is a traitor" responses were unnecessary
This is bad since we ban people for dealing with an issue IC after they had it dealt with OOC, I used to do it but I realized how bad it is. If you say looking into it that person has no idea if they are allowed to retaliate against their murderer without getting banned, but if you tell them its valid or yeah that guy is an antag they know they can go and handle it IC since it wasn't solved OOC.

See, that's a valid point, but I don't know what to do about it

I don't like telling people "X is valid" because that often leads to people wanting to get out of cloning, gear up, and murder their killer right away - I know a lot of the admins don't mind that but something about it rubs me the wrong way

Most of the time someone asking if X killing them was valid is "is that valid of them or should they be banned" and not "is X antag so I can retaliate" (from my experience on sybil at least). In that case, people appreciate the "looking into it" response because it shows I'm checking the situation out - they don't care if they can get cloned and kill X, they just wanted to bring it to my attention in case it was a nonantag for whatever reason.

It's not perfect and you're not wrong but it's usually not an issue for me, and if it is people will just make sure to ask if they can retaliate andfter being cloned or not

EDIT: also kor/niknak I feel like this debate would be better suited to a policy thread/something in the admin forums than cluttering up admin feedback

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Wed May 17, 2017 3:44 pm #295049

Kor wrote:Reread qboppers question. It is "so its okay to kill him once I get cloned" not "so I can kill anyone ever in future rounds"

There isnt context missing if you are asking whether you can retaliate against a specific person who just killed you.

Oh never mind I misread.

idk, I do use "it's valid" and I have never gotten this question (that I remember) related to my saying that, it's almost always brought up in response to my calling something an IC issue or escalated or whatever

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Wed May 17, 2017 9:38 pm #295203

I do want to fight you. I feel like you say things as if its your way or the high way. That only you are right. You estimated a completely random number honestly. We didnt tell people anyone was antag for literally years.

I disagree with you and at most the only response you give me is "well yea not AAALLL the time". You are obviously not going to agree with my view and I definitely dont agree with yours but in the end, admin to admin, they are really going to do whatever they want.

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Wed May 17, 2017 9:57 pm #295223

NikNakFlak wrote:I do want to fight you. I feel like you say things as if its your way or the high way. That only you are right. You estimated a completely random number honestly. We didnt tell people anyone was antag for literally years.

I disagree with you and at most the only response you give me is "well yea not AAALLL the time". You are obviously not going to agree with my view and I definitely dont agree with yours but in the end, admin to admin, they are really going to do whatever they want.

Qbopper wrote:EDIT: also kor/niknak I feel like this debate would be better suited to a policy thread/something in the admin forums than cluttering up admin feedback

like really valid complaints aside this is getting a little bit personal

Post by **oranges** » Wed May 17, 2017 10:46 pm #295252

It really isn't

Nilons · Post by **Nilons** » Thu May 18, 2017 12:03 am #295293

NikNakFlak wrote:I disagree with you and at most the only response you give me is "well yea not AAALLL the time".

NikNakFlak wrote:the only response you give me is "well yea not AAALLL the time".

straw man
ˌstrô ˈman/
noun
noun: strawman
1.
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
"her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

Intentionally making his arguments seem much simpler than they are so that you can knock them down without effort is intellectually dishonest you pink fraud

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Thu May 18, 2017 12:58 am #295320

Oranges wrote:It really isn't

argue what you want, either way this isn't the place for it

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Thu May 18, 2017 5:13 am #295383

Nilons wrote:
NikNakFlak wrote:I disagree with you and at most the only response you give me is "well yea not AAALLL the time".

NikNakFlak wrote:the only response you give me is "well yea not AAALLL the time".
straw man
ˌstrô ˈman/
noun
noun: strawman
1.
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
"her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

Intentionally making his arguments seem much simpler than they are so that you can knock them down without effort is intellectually dishonest you pink fraud

he literally said

I'm sure there are edge cases, which is why I said 90%

which in itself isn't a great argument because it uses an in-factual number. But please Nilons, continue being the most autistic 10 year old on the forums.

onleavedontatme · Thu May 18, 2017 12:33 pm

I feel like you say things as if its your way or the high way.

I disagree with you and at most the only response you give me is "well yea not AAALLL the time".

I genuinely do not understand. Line one of your post you complain I don't respect others views and don't leave room for peoples judgement, and line two of the post you complain I acknowledge your views and I don't argue enough by saying there is room for judgement.

What is your end game here?

peoplearestrange · Thu May 18, 2017 1:26 pm

Can you two not take your personal grievances to PM's or at least IRC?
Not really general feedback anymore.

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Thu May 18, 2017 1:30 pm #295475

Seek help

captain sawrge · Thu May 18, 2017 1:35 pm

peoplearestrange wrote:Can you two not take your personal grievances to PM's or at least IRC?
Not really general feedback anymore.

Who are you
Where did you come from

Nilons · Post by **Nilons** » Thu May 18, 2017 3:28 pm #295519

NikNakFlak wrote:
Nilons wrote:
NikNakFlak wrote:I disagree with you and at most the only response you give me is "well yea not AAALLL the time".

NikNakFlak wrote:the only response you give me is "well yea not AAALLL the time".
straw man
ˌstrô ˈman/
noun
noun: strawman
1.
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
"her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

Intentionally making his arguments seem much simpler than they are so that you can knock them down without effort is intellectually dishonest you pink fraud
he literally said
I'm sure there are edge cases, which is why I said 90%
which in itself isn't a great argument because it uses an in-factual number. But please Nilons, continue being the most autistic 10 year old on the forums.

I will continue you fun hating cuck

danno · Post by **danno** » Thu May 18, 2017 4:40 pm #295541

love this thread

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Thu May 18, 2017 6:09 pm #295586

Why can't niknak be my friend?

TheColdTurtle · Thu May 18, 2017 6:20 pm

Niknak is 2 cool for friends

Haevacht · Post by **Haevacht** » Sat May 20, 2017 1:58 am #296473

admins have been better in general since kev lost sound

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Fri May 26, 2017 1:29 am #299018

If coders can interfere with rounds and do TC trades, does that just make them superior admins that don't have to listen to adminhelps and don't have feedback threads?

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Fri May 26, 2017 1:47 am #299023

People with coder rank shouldn't really be interfering with the round at all.

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Fri May 26, 2017 1:56 am #299026

I've seen coders do some pretty cool events. One time phil (i think) gave me some cool objectives back during lowpop bagil. Uncreative shit shouldn't be done as a coder tho

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Fri May 26, 2017 2:02 am #299033

Cyberboss let someone TC trade to become a securitron, which spent the round being unstoppable and stunning and cuffing EVERYBODY. Which got me dragged away and murdered by a traitor in maintenence, removing me from the round. I thought it was IcePacks so I was going to post in his feedback thread(as I did not know it was a TC trade I thought it was just adminfuckery) but it was Cyberboss who we can't leave feedback about I guess.

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Fri May 26, 2017 2:17 am #299048

I don't know if he still does it but WJhonsthon once did map revotes just because we got cere and another time locked ooc when another admin was on because they missed the end round announcement.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Fri May 26, 2017 2:32 am #299056

D&B wrote:I don't know if he still does it but WJhonsthon once did map revotes just because we got cere and another time locked ooc when another admin was on because they missed the end round announcement.

he has good history of proper admin conduct with coder rank

Post by **oranges** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:27 am #308202

there's still not enough admins

bman · Post by **bman** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:00 am #308207

there's too many admins and only a couple of them log in at all

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:08 am #308208

It's not like having more admins costs money bman

Nilons · Post by **Nilons** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:41 pm #308263

Fukk admin stop ban me

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:59 pm #308398

I don't know when other people have school shit but my exams are next week so I don't have much time and when I do I'm not in a good place to be adminning, but yeah this can be a problem

IrishWristWatch0 · Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:25 pm

nigga we all quit

Nilons · Post by **Nilons** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:01 pm #309719

FUKK ADMIN STOPP BAN ME

Ivuchnu · Post by **Ivuchnu** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:54 pm #567639

I still wanna play the game, but for that to be enjoyable activity there needs to be some admin consistency in either good judgement making all the time or ability to admit when bad ones happen. My small feedback follows for some admins and their actions. Does anyone think that I should have created complaint thread for any of those where I am involved?

TheMidnightRose - I got bwoinked by Rose over placing healing virus pills at arrivals. Issue raised in ticket was not explained very well, but after I made policy thread touching arrivals neutrality subject, I do agree that someone slipping poison in arrivals pills pile might be a problematic thing. I have little trouble avoiding arrivals specifically in favor of placing my pills somewhere more public.
Vekter - I strongly believe if not for my activity on forum about virus pills & Rose thing, I'd not be bwoinked during 139996, leading to me basically ragequitting from TG. Could it be form of harassment over past grudges? I'd like to hear Vekter explain why should I use chemical fridge only as I've been asked to in ticket during 139996.
RaveRadbury - first impression were obnoxious meme votes spammed whenever Rave is online. Later on I came to believe that Rave is good admin. That opinion started to shift once I saw Rave's comments in pill related thread where I tried to get some good opinions on what the fuck powergaming is. Now my stance is "I don't want RaveRadbury as GM railroading me through their carefully crafted plot". Fiasco with rock's security ban over rock helping with removal of hostiles reinforces that further. Heretic rearmed with essential antag tool after confused rock manages to destroy that is another example for how much railroading is important for Rave.
Dr. Aura - Dr. "literally who" Aura who comes to metagrudgingly ban rock as requested by Rave. Extremely bad ban from non-Manuelmin.

I want to play with those people still adminning, I don't want to alter my playstyle much unless there's more than few people agreeing on it being disruptive and I want answers for issues I just brought up.

Post by **Vekter** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:04 pm #567641

Ivuchnu wrote:

TheMidnightRose - I got bwoinked by Rose over placing healing virus pills at arrivals. Issue raised in ticket was not explained very well, but after I made policy thread touching arrivals neutrality subject, I do agree that someone slipping poison in arrivals pills pile might be a problematic thing. I have little trouble avoiding arrivals specifically in favor of placing my pills somewhere more public.

Vekter - I strongly believe if not for my activity on forum about virus pills & Rose thing, I'd not be bwoinked during 139996, leading to me basically ragequitting from TG. Could it be form of harassment over past grudges? I'd like to hear Vekter explain why should I use chemical fridge only as I've been asked to in ticket during 139996.

We were asked not to bwoink for this anymore because it's considered too HRP. I don't have a grudge with you at all and I'm not really sure why you'd think that.

Ivuchnu · Post by **Ivuchnu** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:09 pm #567642

Thanks!

t3hSurge · Post by **t3hSurge** » Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:57 pm #720972

I ragequit yesterday, and after thinking about it, I spend too much time on TG to walk away and pretend I don't care. I have been feeling more and more unwelcome lately on Manuel by some of the admins who are most commonly on. Again these are just my thoughts and feelings. I'll try to keep this post specific and brief, but I am going to get upset all over again I'm sure.

Yesterday and the day before I got bonked by two separate admins, adipem and walter. They're not bmon, but had the same untouchable "you're already wrong that's why I'm bonking you" tone. Pretty much every PM I've ever had with bmon is shitty and accusatory, and I made an unsuccessful attempt to point out my experience here. Since then I just kinda accepted that we clashed and I don't think they're a very good admin, but that's ok. Looking through my ticket history on statbus I have a lot of interactions with a lot of admins, and they mostly run about how I would expect. Sometimes you're simply asked to tell the story of what's been going on, sometimes it's a specific question, sometimes I'm in the wrong from the get-go. After roughly 2000 hours of playing, the workings of admins is mostly a mystery. I still have no defined expectations of what to expect in a bwoink. This is a good example of what I think is a great bwoink. Sure I'm very wrong, but the point is this bwoink DISCOVERS and DEESCALATES. I guess I can't see the admin policy page as a user but surely there are some standards for decorum and neutrality when not dealing with extreme cases. Some serious griefer deserves a funny "the fuck is this you idiot?" type of bwoink sure. As a player acting in good faith, it can be really jarring to get a bwoink, and even more jarring when the tone doesn't match my intentions at all. I of course also understand that a single interaction does not make for a bad admin, even if I think they are very, very wrong and injust.

Both bwoinks were proceeded by unanswered tickets asking for help with things that felt like pretty obvious grief. This certainly adds to my frustration. So, here is the first of the two bwoinks:

► Show Spoiler

From Ticket #5 during round 223843 on Manuel:

---- Log Begins ----
2024-02-12 23:15:11: Ticket Opened by waltertruck: Heya, did you take that armor off of a corpse in medical?
2024-02-12 23:15:30: Reply from t3hsurge: Yes, I think it was the husked RD
2024-02-12 23:16:14: Reply from waltertruck: Alrighty, I'll just get straight to the point and say please don't just loot dead people in medical so that you can wear their armor.
2024-02-12 23:17:16: Reply from t3hsurge: It nearly killed me and was harmfulish I was finding the source of the issue wdym. I'm not like hard keeping it and the RD certainly isn't up yet prolly
2024-02-12 23:17:49: Reply from t3hsurge: like, idgi for real I clowned around with it a bit but took it off to stop the weaponized everything???
2024-02-12 23:17:56: Reply from waltertruck: I mean, it only looks bad when you steal from a corpse and walk off while wearing the armor, I can't really glean that your plan is "give it back" when you've just left while wearing it.
2024-02-12 23:18:23: Reply from waltertruck: And if it's really an issue with him using it to weaponize everything, it's better to go scream at sec about it than taking it to wear yourself.
2024-02-12 23:18:27: Reply from t3hsurge: yo for real what are you talking about this isn't some glamor item this is harmful en masse I've never really seen this armor before
2024-02-12 23:19:21: Reply from t3hsurge: I just left medical I've had no time IC to handle this at all. I really do not appreciate the tone of this bwoink, I haven't done anything bad AT ALL.
2024-02-12 23:19:58: Reply from t3hsurge: This armor nearly killed me and was harming everybody in medbay it's ghost shit like for real what the hell?
2024-02-12 23:20:26: Reply from waltertruck: It doesn't really matter if it's traitor loot or not, running off with an item on a dead body and wearing it yourself looks pretty bad.
2024-02-12 23:21:20: Reply from t3hsurge: it's not traitor loot it's a research item that nearly killed me and harmed a bunch of people this bwoink is fucking ugly you're like justifying your interpretation instead of modifying it based on WHAT I'M TELLING YOU VERY CEARLY
2024-02-12 23:21:51: Reply from t3hsurge: like, for real if you do not get my explanation please get another admin in on it or something
2024-02-12 23:22:56: Reply from waltertruck: If they're being an issue with it and using it to harm everybody in an area, please ahelp about it rather than switching your tone to yelling through text that it's okay and that you can in fact loot it to wear yourself instead.
2024-02-12 23:24:43: Reply from t3hsurge: they were DEAD it was activating while they were dead during firefighting and in medbay it was super harmful I took it to figure out what the fuck it even was, clowned around with it for a couple minutes and you bowink me going Y U LOOT BODY?!! like, you know I'm not out here being a shitter but the tone from the getgo was like a fucking tribunal where I was already guilty
2024-02-12 23:25:06: Reply from t3hsurge: like, what is this bwoink is bmon logged into your account?
2024-02-12 23:26:53: Reply from waltertruck: Yes in fact, I was working off the information that a guy had his stuff taken and that someone was now running around with it on, and then the only response I got was immediate hostility instead of explaining that the dead body in particular was causing the issue, not that it was activating while he was alive. <br />
Your tone is also doing you absolutely zero favors during this, as you could just simply have started with a calmer explanation of "the dead body still activates the armor and I took it since it was impossible to treat correctly" rather than accusing me of being another admin and calling it a tribunal.
2024-02-12 23:28:22: Reply from t3hsurge: I spend all day playing some of the best NT-aligned MRP gameplay in my opinion, and today was an especially selfless day for the sake of the rounds and event and good vibes, my prayer goes unanwered, and then while figuring out that some sci armor I've never seen in 2000 hours of gameplay nearly kills me and hurts people in medbay and while figuring that out you start his bwoink. Fuck me man right? You treated me like guilty thieving shit from the start don't backpedal now.
2024-02-12 23:29:21: Reply from t3hsurge: I'm not going to brown nose either now that you've figured it all out. Sorry for fucking existing.
2024-02-12 23:29:31: Reply from t3hsurge: I'm not wrong.
2024-02-12 23:29:48: Client disconnected
2024-02-12 23:43:53: <a>WalterTruck</a>/(Ar-Leth Ssar) has created a message for T3hSurge<br />I'm not noting you off it or anything because once you explained to context fully it was a valid reason to take off the armor, but I need you to understand that you should try to put some more effort into explaining the situation fully before jumping to insulting me and an unrelated admin. Giving me the partial explanations that "It's not a problem" "It was hurting people" and "I've never seen this before" alongside the fact that you were wearing it lead me to the conclusion that you didn't like him using it earlier, so you took it off his body to use for yourself. Once you actually fully explained how his corpse was doing it and you took it off of him, I could actually operate with full context off your end and say that it was justified for the situation.<br />
<br />
Additionally, it isn't "backpedaling" to change your view on a situation once you have context, and neither is it "brown-nosing" to simply speak in a tone that isn't fully aggressive.
---- No Further Messages ----

This ticket can be viewed:

By the affected player: http://statbus.space/tickets/223843/5
By admins: http://statbus.space/tgdb/tickets/223843/5

This ticket was generated by Statbus v.1.18.0

Now, I would have liked to have found out why I was probed about this in the first place. For some additional context, I was a clown this round also working in atmos. I spent the whole round improving atmos and being a kind and chatty clown, waiting around mostly hoping my atmosian valentine would return. I hear on the radio that ordinance is in flames, and as the only person actively in atmos and wearing the atmos modsuit, I go out for the rescue! It was pretty great, I put out the fires and pulled the husked RD out. You can get the rest of the story from the bwoink. Why the RD I saved presumably ahelped me taking off their armor when it was hurting folks and then playing with it a bit to discover how it works... as clown... why would they ahelp that? But walter starts the bwoink fine, asking a specific question and getting an answer. They then accuse me of hard looting this armor from a dead person in medbay. You asked ONE probing question then just straight up say "I am cutting to the chase, stop looting corpses in medbay" like DUDE. Not fucking ok if you don't know the facts. Somebody I see nearly every day, in a position of power, who should absolutely be familiar with me as a player by this point. In one message with all that authority you've just destroyed me. Am I resented by walter, or is this just a case of them sucking at investigating and arbitrating grief? I do not know admin standards but I really hope they demand better than this. From here on out the bwoink is just late discovery and that kind of self-justifying thing where it's like "oh well but you should have done x" and you explain and now they say, "You should have done y; Oh you were too mad you need to be better this way!" etc. I am rambling now because I'm getting mad all over again so I'll move on.

Here's the second of the two that pushed me over the edge:

► Show Spoiler

From Ticket #7 during round 223889 on Manuel:

---- Log Begins ----
2024-02-13 20:47:06: Ticket Opened by adipemdragon: Ok, can I ask what the fuck you're doing.... any of that for.
2024-02-13 20:48:54: Reply from t3hsurge: Really? With all this going on this doesn't make sense? I guess I could have just given the ID to them right away instead but like, someone ascended into a wizard in front of my eyes? I'm so confused.
2024-02-13 20:49:54: Reply from t3hsurge: I'm like trying to RP a religious experience without like, breaking any rules and getting a bwoink is really scary ngl.
2024-02-13 20:50:41: Reply from adipemdragon: I do get that, but also, a boss is still a boss. Was just wanted to make sure you didn't take it too far.
2024-02-13 20:52:07: Reply from t3hsurge: I understood right away not to "help" the wizard, so I just stayed in the chapel where they ascended and I got miracles and stuff. I figured I'd put up a stun fight to HoS to make the narrative clear but now I just kinda feel bad
2024-02-13 20:53:35: Reply from adipemdragon: It's. Fine. I genuinely just didn't want it to go too far. Feel free to get at the HoS now, I'm giving you a chance here
2024-02-13 20:55:11: <a>AdipemDragon</a>/(Toma Prescot) launched a pod towards T3hSurge/(Greg Davidson),
2024-02-13 20:55:52: Reply from t3hsurge: I dunno man you or the other admin was like, actively participating from heaven in what we were doing and to get bonked saying like "why are you doing ANY of this" is really jarring I don't really know how to pick up from where I left off.
2024-02-13 20:56:36: Reply from t3hsurge: It's mostly me I've been stressed lately and last round I told myself I'd take a quieter less social job
2024-02-13 20:58:18: Reply from adipemdragon: ...to be fair, I was actively trying to get people hurt just so they'd Stop doing this, between the fireballs and the lightnings and the subtlemessages and the local narations, my fault for not communicating that better
2024-02-13 21:02:41: SubtleMessage: <a>AdipemDragon</a>/(Toma Prescot) -> <a>T3hSurge</a>/(Greg Davidson) : if oyu want, you can ghost out to keep watching, I just wanted to make sure the body wasn;'t rotting
2024-02-13 21:03:32: Closed by AdipemDragon
---- No Further Messages ----

This ticket can be viewed:

By the affected player: http://statbus.space/tickets/223889/7
By admins: http://statbus.space/tgdb/tickets/223889/7

This ticket was generated by Statbus v.1.18.0

Here I'm feeling burnt after two unanswered griefing ahelps. I also just specifically feel punished lately for being social and kind regardless or role, or going the extra mile trying to help the station/RP/round/story. So I go into this round thinking that and wanting to retract a bit and y'know find my center or whatever. So I sign up for jobs like chem, atmos and warden. I roll warden, do my job very well for about 30 minutes or maybe 20. Both officers talk about investigating calls for crew to chapel, and I give them instructions to get there. It's North, you know layout kinda confusing or whatever. I cave after a minute or two and decide to leave brig briefly to see the commotion. I guess I could have used cams but it's not the same. I get there, and after a minute a crewmember disappears, only to be revealed on the radio and briefly in-person later in the chapel that they "ascended" into an evil wizard. While all this is happening I feel glued to the chapel, this is like the round's main event. Feels bus-y. It's hard to relate in a story how organic the RP was, everybody was chanting and literal miracles happened. I was clearly from the get-go being interacted with in real time by an admin. After the crewmember disappeared, we continued to have like admin fireballs and healing while we shouted the same incantations. So like, this was really frustrating in context. I step out of my comfort zone for the RP, being extra careful not to self-antag beyond dereliction of duty and I guess verbal treason. I get bonked like this right after my late-arrival boss HoS showed up to the chapel like 15 minutes into this whole chapel thing. I do some religious zealotry RP and tell em to buzz off with a stun and disposals combo, and the "what the fuck are you doing?" comes in. As I'm replying to the bwoink the HoS kills me SSD for these crimes. I'm still not upset. It's the ending where I find out of the two admins adipem was the one doing the miracles on me and the other disciples after the crewmate ascended to a wizard. You were there, you caused this, and then you hit me with "what the fuck are you doing?" Do I even need to explain this? If this opener to a bwoink was meant to be lighthearted, big fucking fail.

I put a lot of time into this post, but it's a drop compared to my time on Manuel. I love Manuel and so very many of the players I see on a regular basis. I don't want to feel disliked or as if I am on eggshells by the admins I see in adminwho the most. I believe that a bwoink should be neutral, deescalating, investigatory, and just. I've included in this post examples of instead bias, verbal retaliation, and assumptions. While the decorum of TG admins is generally fucking incredible in my opinion, stuff like this is so jarring to me personally. I'm so invested in the people and I enjoy the game so much for other reasons too. I just feel stuck bottling up admin interactions like these, or the bmon post, or the example with anne I gave. I don't use these forums really, but I hope this does some good. I think of SS13 as a grand real-time shared narrative, creating unpredictable stories with friends and strangers. The opposite would be something we do see too, a deep desire to be cruel and petty to others without consequence. I don't ever want to feel like I'm being punished for doing my best.

Sightld2 · Post by **Sightld2** » Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:44 pm #720984

t3hSurge wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:57 pm -I guess I can't see the admin policy page as a user-

Here you are https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Admin_Conduct

I was online during this ticket https://statbus.space/tgdb/tickets/223770/1
As a note, Admins are never required to answer any particular ahelp. I chose not to touch this because as presented it seemed like an IC Issue, but I didn't want to mark it that way incase anyone else online had a different opinion.

Post by **dendydoom** » Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:56 pm #720986

hello, i'd just like to let you know that this feedback has been received and i've been going through it personally with the tickets mentioned.

there are a lot of factors that go into why an admin might do something, just like with why a player might do something or respond in a certain way. this takes time to go through and it does no one any good to pass over important context and details.

things that i find that could be done better will likely lead to a conversation/discussion, either open among the team or with individuals.

this is clearly something that has stressed you out a lot. aside from what has happened here i hope you are looking after yourself. the space game is frustrating. it is a frustration simulator. nearly everyone who plays needs to take a break to disengage from all the little problems that build up so that they can reconnect with why they love the game.

t3hSurge · Post by **t3hSurge** » Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:10 pm #720991

Sightld2 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:44 pm
t3hSurge wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:57 pm -I guess I can't see the admin policy page as a user-
Here you are https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Admin_Conduct

I was referring to directive link after reading this page before making my post. Nothing I'm talking about relates to really anything on the admin conduct wiki page so I'd assume it's in that directives link that leads to viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9987

The only relevant thing I see is "Maintain professional conduct both in game and outside of the game." That's so broad you could argue anything with it, and I wouldn't describe any tg admin I've ever seen as "unprofessional". The struggle is bottling up these sour interactions. My options are to go to the forums, and make a big, long stink about an admin that is otherwise good. As mentioned, a previous attempt was stonewalled for formatting and location, for a forum I don't really use. I end up feeling like there's no reasonable path of escalation or outlet. I either move on, trying to avoid resentment and hoping they have none but not knowing, or I have to spend a bunch of time making mountains out of mole hills calling people out. I'm clearly looking for in-between too. Two of my examples request an independent 3rd party to no avail, and it's not like you can ahelp an ahelp.

Sightld2 · Post by **Sightld2** » Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:43 pm #720999

t3hSurge wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:10 pm I either move on, trying to avoid resentment and hoping they have none but not knowing, or I have to spend a bunch of time making mountains out of mole hills calling people out. I'm clearly looking for in-between too. Two of my examples request an independent 3rd party to no avail, and it's not like you can ahelp an ahelp.

You can put just about anything in our Feedback threads. They're far less serious than a complaints, but it's a way to say something without having to hash a whole complaint out, or even if the complaint falls through. Better than saying nothing at all I think.