cave dwarves (lavaland ghost-role)

[Luke Cox]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Is an optional lavaland ghost role seriously controversial?

[Steelpoint]

PR was closed due to someone utterly unrelated to the PR insulting the maintainers, or at least that is what is claimed by oranges.

Makes no sense to close a PR because someone else is starting shit.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Shuts down a PR they even helped review, that was also extremely popular with the community.

Where were the other maintainers who were being 'bullied' besides being asleep? Budget australian can't take the banter.

- Look at the recent DMCA complaint, some guy was slinging shit at the accused in discord where a lot of the discussions were being screenshotted and panning out, but its not actually going to affect the trial at all.

[Incomptinence]

I was looking forward to having these lil staunch fellows around but as usual oranges acts like a corporate ladder climber but in a volunteer project.

Sucker up like a baby bird yearning for its parents vomit on the way up, take shits on everyone like a pigeon once he is up there unless they act the same way he did.

This is a nice pull wip shame to see it struck down by a kiwi with no values for the first petty reason he could find.

Oranges is quite simply a disgrace of a maintainer and perpetuates maintainer bullying on innocents by holding the title.

[Luke Cox]

Why is someone like that allowed to be a maintainer?

[oranges]

Hey why are you all so upset? it's just a ghost role

[FantasticFwoosh]

Hey why are you all so upset? it's just a ghost role

Split personality disorder at this point. You shat chocolate filling into a cake collectively made with love to milk the reaction; course people are going to be upset.

[DemonFiren]

I hate to say it, but Fwoosh is actually right.

Oranges is turning into an Australian.

[oranges]

Hey why are you all so upset? it's just a ghost role

Split personality disorder at this point. You shat chocolate filling into a cake collectively made with love to milk the reaction; course people are going to be upset.

19:07 < iamgoofball> PLAYER SUPPORTED FEATURE DENIED -> 3 MONTHS OF CONVERSION CODE ARGUING BALANCE -> FEATURE REFACTOR OF X FEATURE TO WORK BETTER -> BIG FEATURE CODED 300+ COMMENTS BY PEOPLE MAD ABOUT NERFS
GETS CLOSED FOR NO MAINTAINERS BEING WILLING TO BITE THE BULLET, THIS HAS BEEN LOOPING FOR 4 YEARS AND WILL CONTINUE FOREVER UNTIL WE DIE

19:04 < iamgoofball> WE'VE BEEN IN THIS NEVER ENDING CYCLE FOR 4 YEARS

19:05 < iamgoofball> GO GOLD
19:05 < iamgoofball> END THE CYCLE

19:03 < iamgoofball> WHATS THAT TIME FOR THE FEATURE FREEZE AND INEVITABLE REFACTOR
19:04 < iamgoofball> BIG FEATURE PR HERE WE GO 300+ COMMENTS

19:01 < iamgoofball> CHRIST EVERY TIME WE TRY TO ADD ANYTHING NEW AND UNIQUE IT'S ALWAYS THE SAME FUCKING PEOPLE SAYING THE SAME FUCKING SHIT, HOW DO WE ROLL THIS INTO R&D OR CARGO, EVERY FUCKING TIME, AND IF
THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE THEY'LL JUST ARGUE IT DOWN WITH BALANCE BITCHING AND MOANING CAN'T HAVE FUN SHIT FUN POLICE COMING THROUGH ONLY CARGO AND R&D CAN HAVE THE FUN SHIT WHATS THAT A NEW TOY
ADDED TO A JOB OH FUCK STAND ASIDE WE NEED TO ADD A R&

18:39 < TheGhostOfWhibyl1> [tgstation] Iamgoofball opened pull request #27355: GEE ITS ALMOST LIKE ANYTHING THAT ISNT ANIME TRASH OR FURRY TRASH THEMED ISNT OKAY (master...patch-247)

18:40 < TheGhostOfWhibyl1> [tgstation] Iamgoofball opened pull request #27356: GEE ITS ALMOST LIKE ANYTHING THAT ISNT ANIME TRASH OR FURRY TRASH THEMED ISNT OKAY (master...patch-247)
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/27356


But look at this!

[FantasticFwoosh]

Goof opens meme PR's when he's mad because you made him mad on purpose. Its a response you elicited even if it is childish of goof to do so.

[iamgoofball]

I got memed on but the discovery of THE CYCLE is still VALID

[oranges]

The cycle never ends

[Dr_bee]

How to cast
1. Make a mold out of clay (current choices are bar, shovel, pickaxe, or blade)
2. Pour 25u of ANY reagent into the mold (this is mostly for molten ore, but a chemist could have a lot of fun with this)
3. Place filled mold on an anvil, use hammer on anvil to break result out of mold.
.

Casting metal to make tools and weapons? for shame. Casting would make brittle blades and easily shattered hammers. you typically only cast tools like pots, pans, or tongs.

to make blades and tool heads you need to make an ingot, heat it up, and hammer it into shape. I know accuracy isnt exactly a thing on SS13, but if you are going to make dwarves, at least make them be decent smiths and not horrible brittle shit tool makers.

[Qbopper]

PR was closed due to someone utterly unrelated to the PR insulting the maintainers, or at least that is what is claimed by oranges.

Makes no sense to close a PR because someone else is starting shit.

if this is true that's ridiculous

I know I've had my issues with oranges but closing PRs off of entirely unrelated stuff is just flat out unacceptable

granted I have no context or info

[Wyzack]

optimumtact commented 6 hours ago
Cheridan Isaid I had to apologise for closing this to wind up goof


Twas a jest

[Qbopper]

optimumtact commented 6 hours ago
Cheridan Isaid I had to apologise for closing this to wind up goof


Twas a jest

wew

[Armhulen]

ITS A PRANK ITS A PRAAAAANK

[MMMiracles]

How to cast
1. Make a mold out of clay (current choices are bar, shovel, pickaxe, or blade)
2. Pour 25u of ANY reagent into the mold (this is mostly for molten ore, but a chemist could have a lot of fun with this)
3. Place filled mold on an anvil, use hammer on anvil to break result out of mold.
.

Casting metal to make tools and weapons? for shame. Casting would make brittle blades and easily shattered hammers. you typically only cast tools like pots, pans, or tongs.

to make blades and tool heads you need to make an ingot, heat it up, and hammer it into shape. I know accuracy isnt exactly a thing on SS13, but if you are going to make dwarves, at least make them be decent smiths and not horrible brittle shit tool makers.

It wouldn't be difficult to require the outputs to require proper shaping but I feel like a whole new crafting mechanic that'll only be seen for one ghost role should be kept simple. I don't think goof feels exactly the same, but still.

[iamgoofball]

It's a matter of keeping it simple so players don't get bored doing minor tasks all the time. The whole mold pouring is only there because it allows players to get creative with reagents. The smelter works the way it does because it allows you to theoretically smelt anything with an on_smelt, same with the brewing barrel.

The way I see it, if the complexity allows you to let players feel like they have more control over the gameplay and more player agency, it's good complexity.

Letting you brew 3 different plants that are genetically mutated to produce X reagents and condensing it into a single reagent allows for shitloads of unique gameplay opportunities for bartenders, chemists, traitors, changelings, botanists, and anyone who could take advantage of hiding a chemical or condensing them down for space purposes.

Allowing you to pour any reagents into a mold and smith it into various tools and weapons allows you to have unique effects that occur for tools and armor, taking advantage of our huge chemistry library and working as a pseudo materials crafting system.

This is why we don't have screws and different screw sizes and types for construction, that's needless complexity that just adds more timegates and inventory management, without providing any actual enjoyment or fun.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Keeping my fingers crossed in the future to borrow icecube code & have people encased in molten metal turn into slabs harder to resist out of.

Also Lzimann raised a point that all moulds are 25u, you could forseeably see that change in the future i reckon if the moulds are adjusted or some new ones are put in (moulding a entire custom metal statue by using a structural freestanding mould for like 100u of molten metals etc) a shovel is notably bigger than a sword, and a warhammer or a full axe (no referencial punny business here) is probably going to be huge.

> You'll probably want to make a molten bronze/bananium and titanium have have some smelting features too because they are all oretypes (bronze can be broken down)

[imblyings]

>pour 25u of water into a mould
>take out an axe

please

[MMMiracles]

>pour 25u of water into a mould
>take out an axe

please

ice-axe

[FantasticFwoosh]

Napalm axe, sorium axe, romerol axe etc. (with chemistry & botany via dwarves mudering podpeople it only gets scarier)

> There's a point to be made that generally bananium ore = molten type doesn't have very many offensive properties at all, hence would you propose that bananium has a minus attribute & the object uniquely honks the victim?

[Armhulen]

I think the weapons should have some base metal mixed in with the reagent to be a working axe.

>flight potion axe

>>dragon potion axe

>>>plasmaman mutation toxin axe

>>>>sleeping powder axe

[MMMiracles]

I think the weapons should have some base metal mixed in with the reagent to be a working axe.

>flight potion axe

>>dragon potion axe

>>>plasmaman mutation toxin axe

>>>>sleeping powder axe

Well, you need 25u of the reagent to even get the part, so good luck. The sword only does TOUCH reactions as well, so the reagents that require ingesting for their main effect won't do anything.

[Armhulen]

I think the weapons should have some base metal mixed in with the reagent to be a working axe.

>flight potion axe (WON'T WORK)

>>dragon potion axe (WON'T WORK)

>>>plasmaman mutation toxin axe (WILL WORK BUT GOOD LUCK GETTING ALL THE MATS)

>>>>sleeping powder axe (MAYBE)

Well, you need 25u of the reagent to even get the part, so good luck. The sword only does TOUCH reactions as well, so the reagents that require ingesting for their main effect won't do anything.

dammit, that sucks dude

[Luke Cox]

Keep in mind that you can always start off with a simpler role at first and add all this stuff after it gets merged.

[iamgoofball]

[Armhulen]

Keep in mind that you can always start off with a simpler role at first and add all this stuff after it gets merged.

Balance tards like you can fuck of

[oranges]

The more you add to your pr, the less and less likely a maintainer will bother to merge it

and I will close your pr if it gets too stale.

[Luke Cox]

Keep in mind that you can always start off with a simpler role at first and add all this stuff after it gets merged.

Balance tards like you can fuck of

I like all the little goodies too, I just don't want it to die of feature creep before it even arrives

[Dr_bee]

Keep in mind that you can always start off with a simpler role at first and add all this stuff after it gets merged.

Balance tards like you can fuck of

I like all the little goodies too, I just don't want it to die of feature creep before it even arrives

Yeah, just merge the basic ghost role first, maybe give them an ORM or something, then add smithing and brewing in their own PRs. doesnt this also make it easier to fix and bugtest as well?

[FantasticFwoosh]

Giving them a orm defeats the purpose of them crafting & blacksmithing exclusively and would also mean the functions are accessible outside the ghost role (i guess if you want to steal the original or make a PR to construct a substitute station forge then thats up to you)

If you don't have smithing, dwarves are restricted to lavaland weapons (which is not great)

And if you do not include brewing, as per the dwarf's mechanics to require alcohol to live & work the actual ghost role wont work. The only auxillary substitutable thing already is the minecart system, but thats founded on relatively simplistic code already recycled from a extremely old PR.

[Luke Cox]

Brewing is a must, but you could just start them off with a reskinned ORM and work in blacksmithing later

[FantasticFwoosh]

Brewing is a must, but you could just start them off with a reskinned ORM and work in blacksmithing later

Please take time to read through the PR, the moulding is actually super specific to making any objects at all without pre-supplying dwarves with generic items. Clay is specifically seeded on the map to gather up & turn into additional moulds.

From MMMiracles recent edits - Moulded toolpiece from the smelter & woodcap log = the desired object, without that moulded piece, your orm suggestion Luke would be just tacking on metal sheets to logs and making weapons, which arguably is even worse for balance because its in the crafting recipes available to all people.

[Qbopper]

Keep in mind that you can always start off with a simpler role at first and add all this stuff after it gets merged.

Balance tards like you can fuck of

cox said this later but I think it's a better idea overall to start small and then add as you go instead of coding a fuckhuge PR all at once and then trying to merge it

what if a maintainer doesn't like it and shuts it down? then you've lost hours/days/etc. of work

[captain sawrge]

why not just make these like, crash survivors or space drifters or dudes on an expedition or something and make them normal humans stuck on lavaland so people stfu about fantasy races

[Qbopper]

why not just make these like, crash survivors or space drifters or dudes on an expedition or something and make them normal humans stuck on lavaland so people stfu about fantasy races

this is really confusing me

like, it's a massive fucking universe, the odds of there not being a race of stereotypical dwarves or elves or some shit is near zero

[captain sawrge]

comrpomsie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Qbopper]

comrpomsie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

true i guess

[Steelpoint]

Just claim they are people who broke out of a Earth Government black ops research site who were subjected to a myriad of tests and genetic mutations.

[FantasticFwoosh]

The dwarves emigrated from the abyssal underground of the planet is a more likelier solution if you're looking to de-fantasise the DF aspect of it through a upward mineshaft tunnel breaking the surface.

Really i think its fine them coming from DFland, we're not unwholly partial to dimension hopping shenanigans with our bluespace tech. Them being extra-dimensional fits in with the low tech of their theme given that these aren't sci-fi dwarves from a distant region of space travelling through a stargate like bluespace device with the technological capabilities that could make them unbalanced or just golem replacements.

[iamgoofball]

Brewing is a must, but you could just start them off with a reskinned ORM and work in blacksmithing later

Blacksmithing is already in. We don't need to "work it in later", it's already worked in. They can already make ore bars with it. Buzz off.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Well least now we have a blacksmithing system in which we can create custom weapon types if we just applied ourselves codewise with a bit of effort.

> Wizard event summon random reagent swords anybody?

[iamgoofball]

Keep in mind that you can always start off with a simpler role at first and add all this stuff after it gets merged.

Balance tards like you can fuck of

I like all the little goodies too, I just don't want it to die of feature creep before it even arrives

There's feature creep and there's finishing the design doc. Blacksmithing is the design doc.

[Qbopper]

you're ignoring people's valid points, goof

just because you want X to have Y doesn't mean you need to get it done with the base PR, if the PR gets denied you just wasted all that time

[FantasticFwoosh]

Just a front directional shot (no sides yet), but something i cooked up as generic armor sprites since we've been teetering on inactivity regarding clothing. At this stage is better to save armorcrafting till part 2 and just get some generic 'dwarf' armor in i guess. Wouldn't you agree goof it'd be a better idea with the features in the future installment?

You might recognise this to being a set closely resembling a picture i posted earlier in the thread, indeed the measurements have been made & adjusted to fit onto the new model. You could even use the alternative human sprites for when normal carbons wear the dwarf clothes.

[iamgoofball]

you're ignoring people's valid points, goof

just because you want X to have Y doesn't mean you need to get it done with the base PR, if the PR gets denied you just wasted all that time

Releasing it without brewing/blacksmithing is just like adding a second set of beach bums. Why should I restrict my design vision of a feature just because some forum guy says it's too much?

You don't add a framework and then not use it at all, promising future additions.

This is why we had Urist's Adamantine in the code useless for 4 years.

[Qbopper]

That's not what I'm saying

I'm just saying that if you code a fairly large PR and it gets rejected, and all that work goes down the drain, there's no one to blame but yourself

[FantasticFwoosh]

Ok, codersprites submitted to goof to pass to MMI, and some nice fellow donated a booze UI, now all we need is the ruin and we're done.

---

All milestones complete!! Codersprites and all.

[bman]

made this set of greyscale chainmail in 32 seconds also nice sprites fwoosh