/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

ShadowDimentio wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:True, but as I said, what's the difference between the AI dispatching a secborg and them dispatching a guard? It still ends with the traitor getting dunked, rendering the secborg removal COMPLETELY pointless except to make the AI's life more difficult.

>make the AI's life more difficult

PKPenguin321 wrote:as it should be

not to mention that if you honestly think that borgs are just as easy or easier to defeat than human sec officers when playing as the average antagonist, you need to reevaluate that because you are incorrect in the most factual sense

Every antagonist has hard counters to borgs (EMPs, guns, screech) or doesn't give a single fuck about them (blob). If you're SERIOUSLY that afraid of the big bad secborg but don't take anything to counter them it's your own fault when you get fucked. Removing things because of bad playing is a fucking stupid way to do things.

It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight and complaining you keep losing until the guns get removed.

>he honestly thinks borgs are easier to defeat than human sec officers
N I C E
i know to ignore your opinions now

Maybe he actually carries counters. Can't wait for you to demand engineering borg removal next because you are too sloppy to carry tools.

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:Could've just tossed more flashes and laser pointers about the place.

The big bad borg isn't much of a threat when it can't move (or speak?) for more time than it takes to scrap it with your esword.

I'd rather just not have the module if you think that's fun.

>I'd rather be really powerful and not have any hard counters.

Part of the problem, etc.

Malkevin wrote:

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:Could've just tossed more flashes and laser pointers about the place.

The big bad borg isn't much of a threat when it can't move (or speak?) for more time than it takes to scrap it with your esword.

I'd rather just not have the module if you think that's fun.

>I'd rather be really powerful and not have any hard counters.

Part of the problem, etc.

No I'd rather you just remove the module if you think getting stunned forever is fun.

Incomptinence wrote:Maybe he actually carries counters. Can't wait for you to demand engineering borg removal next because you are too sloppy to carry tools.

in what way do run of the mill tools stop engi borgs

btw nice slippery slope, i'm fine with engie borgs and shit, sec borgs are just bad because of their instinctual validhunting nature, not because "oh no scary borgs remove them"

Malkevin wrote:

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:>I'd rather be really powerful and not have any hard counters.

powerful and with very few hard counters
hmm what does that remind me of
it's secborgs

PKPenguin321 wrote:btw nice slippery slope, i'm fine with engie borgs and shit, sec borgs are just bad because of their instinctual validhunting nature, not because "oh no scary borgs remove them"

powerful and with very few hard counters
hmm what does that remind me of
it's borgs

Translated: "It's not about oh no scary borgs remove them, it's just about oh no scary borgs remove them"

Literally in the same fucking post are you retarded

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:Could've just tossed more flashes and laser pointers about the place.

The big bad borg isn't much of a threat when it can't move (or speak?) for more time than it takes to scrap it with your esword.

I'd rather just not have the module if you think that's fun.

>I'd rather be really powerful and not have any hard counters.

Part of the problem, etc.

No I'd rather you just remove the module if you think getting stunned forever is fun.

By that logic we should remove humans because getting cuffed means you're stunned forever

Malkevin wrote:

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:Could've just tossed more flashes and laser pointers about the place.

The big bad borg isn't much of a threat when it can't move (or speak?) for more time than it takes to scrap it with your esword.

I'd rather just not have the module if you think that's fun.

>I'd rather be really powerful and not have any hard counters.

Part of the problem, etc.

No I'd rather you just remove the module if you think getting stunned forever is fun.

By that logic we should remove humans because getting cuffed means you're stunned forever

You can talk while cuffed.

Zero valid reasons to remove secborgs.

Also I am noting a lot of unrobust players who can't deal with the easiest thing to disable in the entire game.

ShadowDimentio wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:btw nice slippery slope, i'm fine with engie borgs and shit, sec borgs are just bad because of their instinctual validhunting nature, not because "oh no scary borgs remove them"

powerful and with very few hard counters
hmm what does that remind me of
it's borgs

Translated: "It's not about oh no scary borgs remove them, it's just about oh no scary borgs remove them"

Literally in the same fucking post are you retarded

second part was specifically secborgs but i shortened it to just borgs, calm down and stop jumping to conclusions so you can call me retarded. deep breaths, friend.

I said it once, I'll say it again.

ShadowDimentio wrote:Every antagonist has hard counters to borgs (EMPs, guns, screech) or doesn't give a single fuck about them (blob). If you're SERIOUSLY that afraid of the big bad secborg but don't take anything to counter them it's your own fault when you get fucked. Removing things because of bad playing is a fucking stupid way to do things.

It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight and complaining you keep losing until the guns get removed.

ShadowDimentio wrote:I said it once, I'll say it again.

ShadowDimentio wrote:Every antagonist has hard counters to borgs (EMPs, guns, screech) or doesn't give a single fuck about them (blob). If you're SERIOUSLY that afraid of the big bad secborg but don't take anything to counter them it's your own fault when you get fucked. Removing things because of bad playing is a fucking stupid way to do things.

It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight and complaining you keep losing until the guns get removed.

having a single forced counter that you have to play by as an antagonist or else you get instadunked by a borg is not good gameplay. ss13 benefits from variety between rounds, and with borgs having so few counters, there is very little room for said variety. i do not think what you pointed out is a good reason to keep secborgs.

ShadowDimentio wrote:Removing things because of bad playing is a fucking stupid way to do things.

Two words: GET GOOD

ShadowDimentio wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:le self quote

CARRY A FLASH AT ALL TIMES OR ELSE YOU LOSE HAHA ISN'T THIS FUN AND EMERGENT GAMEPLAY

nice meme

ShadowDimentio wrote:Every antagonist has hard counters to borgs (EMPs, guns, screech) or doesn't give a single fuck about them (blob). If you're SERIOUSLY that afraid of the big bad secborg but don't take anything to counter them it's your own fault when you get fucked.

Are you illiterate or are you just ignoring anything you can't strawman

Because we've been dancing back and forth for something like ten posts and honestly you're just making yourself look like an idiot on this

ShadowDimentio wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:Every antagonist has hard counters to borgs (EMPs, guns, screech) or doesn't give a single fuck about them (blob). If you're SERIOUSLY that afraid of the big bad secborg but don't take anything to counter them it's your own fault when you get fucked.

Are you illiterate or are you just ignoring anything you can't strawman

Because we've been dancing back and forth for something like ten posts and honestly you're just making yourself look like an idiot on this

Good meme

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:Could've just tossed more flashes and laser pointers about the place.

The big bad borg isn't much of a threat when it can't move (or speak?) for more time than it takes to scrap it with your esword.

I'd rather just not have the module if you think that's fun.

>I'd rather be really powerful and not have any hard counters.

Part of the problem, etc.

No I'd rather you just remove the module if you think getting stunned forever is fun.

By that logic we should remove humans because getting cuffed means you're stunned forever

You can talk while cuffed.

Not if I mute sting you / dose you up with morphine then remove your headset.

ShadowDimentio wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:Every antagonist has hard counters to borgs (EMPs, guns, screech) or doesn't give a single fuck about them (blob). If you're SERIOUSLY that afraid of the big bad secborg but don't take anything to counter them it's your own fault when you get fucked.

Are you illiterate or are you just ignoring anything you can't strawman

Because we've been dancing back and forth for something like ten posts and honestly you're just making yourself look like an idiot on this

i have already responded to this exact post saying why it is not good. if anybody is illiterate it is you, although i don't blame you for not being able to read things through your blind rage. deep breaths, friendo. deeeep breaths.

Malkevin wrote:

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:

Shad0vvs wrote:

Malkevin wrote:Could've just tossed more flashes and laser pointers about the place.

The big bad borg isn't much of a threat when it can't move (or speak?) for more time than it takes to scrap it with your esword.

I'd rather just not have the module if you think that's fun.

>I'd rather be really powerful and not have any hard counters.

Part of the problem, etc.

No I'd rather you just remove the module if you think getting stunned forever is fun.

By that logic we should remove humans because getting cuffed means you're stunned forever

You can talk while cuffed.

Not if I mute sting you / dose you up with morphine then remove your headset.

That takes more than one item/object/time.

If secborgs are removed we need a red outfit for service borgs.

Okay, both sides should calm down a bit.

But I understand the frustration, because it honestly basically does boil down to "It's too hard to deal with" from the anti-secborg peoples. They want a single be-all-end-all means to defeat any opponent they may face.

Maybe there should be more flashes laying around maint or antags should be able to buy laser pointers or whatever if that makes them happy.

But you know how the parapen used to be an instant knock out? Blind, paralysed, muted and deafened? And how that was deemed too OP and nerfed? Well Borgs were nerfed to have flashes and laserpointers and all other forms of EMP just like that. And flashes have muliple uses without cooldown. You can disable a borg with a single click and can kill it with whatever you have at hand. And every antag has that, some even have it build in into other abilities or get it for basically free.

Maybe it's easy to forget all these rounds in which Secborgs get disposed of by antags rather easily.

But we are running in circles here.

You can kill a borg with a flash, but you can also kill anyone ever with a stunbaton. It's functionally exactly the same except you can't kill them with the same flash, since flashes can't be used to beat people with and nobody really carries them anymore because they also don't stun people. Furthermore, good fucking luck ever getting near them with a flash because they have a disabler with like 90 shots in it that they can spam forever and kill you with.

I just dislike Sec borgs because Security is meant to be the main push force against round antagonists (outside of vigilantes and self-defence). Security Cyborgs add another, equally powerful, push force against antagonists.

Silicon's will continue to help security if there is no sec borg, but it'll be in more of a support role than a direct action role.

You can kill a borg with a flash, but you can also kill anyone ever with a stunbaton.

And a stunbaton doesn't even blind, mute and deafen the victim. A flashed borg cannot even cry for help or see what's going on.

I just dislike Sec borgs because Security is meant to be the main push force against round antagonist...

This might actually be a player problem on the silicon's side as the primary priority for security borgs should be to prevent harm (depending on laws). Like I've said before I've seen many rounds in which silicons and security are at each others throat because of that.

Maybe giving the secborg a different painjob (blue or whatever) and calling them "peacekeeper" borg or whatever would get the message across better. Even though you already get a big red message once you choose secborg that tells you all that stuff already.

HYUK HYUK GOOD LUCK GETTING CLOSE WITH A MELEE FLASH!

You do know you can still use button a flash to white out the screen of people around you right? I mean it is one of the few melee weapons that protects you at all even if it is pretty ghetto.

Anyway this is a relentless march wonder what the people behind this want next.

Incomptinence wrote:Anyway this is a relentless march wonder what the people behind this want next.

Crew members are all noodle armed nerds that can't attack anyone because they all spawn with clumsy.

I don't even get what's so bad about borgs being "valid hunting shits", if that's all people do, besides play the grief lottery, in this game.

GeeElAge wrote:I don't even get what's so bad about borgs being "valid hunting shits", if that's all people do, besides play the grief lottery, in this game.

Shhh... don't admit that or Kor will ban you.

secborgs aren't being removed because they're good or hard.

They're being removed because they encourage the AI to play too much like a second security force.

They're also completely overpowered for anything antagonistic and are too effective an enabler for people to grief.

After extending the trial due to initially promising results, the headmins have decided unanimously that removing secborgs seems to be a net positive. We have another test as part of HG's wild ride, but it won't be for a week or two as it requires a new config option.

sec borgs have been retarded for years and anyone who disagrees is fail and has AIDS

Incomptinence wrote:HYUK HYUK GOOD LUCK GETTING CLOSE WITH A MELEE FLASH!

You do know you can still use button a flash to white out the screen of people around you right? I mean it is one of the few melee weapons that protects you at all even if it is pretty ghetto.

Anyway this is a relentless march wonder what the people behind this want next.

last time i tried this on a borg it didn't actually stun or blind them at all
that was a while ago and i havent tried it since then but i'm pretty sure the AOE flash only works on carbons

Hornygranny wrote:After extending the trial due to initially promising results, the headmins have decided unanimously that removing secborgs seems to be a net positive. We have another test as part of HG's wild ride, but it won't be for a week or two as it requires a new config option.

Thus the end of security cyborgs came not with a bang, but a whimper.

And thus the shitters win!

This is really incredible...

I could rant, but it's not worth it anymore, plus it's hard to put in words how pathetic this all is.

I hope we will get the no-security and antags-aren't-valid test weeks as well, because they're just as ridiculous as this is.

dionysus24779 wrote:I hope we will get the no-security and antags-aren't-valid test weeks as well, because they're just as ridiculous as this is.

not even remotely close babe

1 borg module (that the game is better without) VS a whole department and a fundamental server policy
it's not quite as ridiculous

I don't care anymore, I'm gonna take a huge break from this game. Will make a lot of people happy too.

On the topic of other tests, no security and lessened greytiding rules would be an interesting thing to see. Assistants would be tasked with breaking into the brig and fighting over all the loot they could get their grubby hands on.

No-Security would turn into Capn/HoP Security.

Zilenan91 wrote:On the topic of other tests, no security and lessened greytiding rules would be an interesting thing to see. Assistants would be tasked with breaking into the brig and fighting over all the loot they could get their grubby hands on.

It's like a space version of Lord of the Flies

Zilenan91 wrote:On the topic of other tests, no security and lessened greytiding rules would be an interesting thing to see. Assistants would be tasked with breaking into the brig and fighting over all the loot they could get their grubby hands on.

Sounds like your average mid-pop no-sec round. Why would this need a test if we already get rounds like that occasionally?

I like how the Secborgs looked...

As a sometimes borg player i am kinda glad they are gone. I always hated getting borged only to have people to tell me to go secborg because we have no security (again). I just wanna mop dammit

Overall the removal of secborgs has been pretty smooth. The only issue I've seen so far is that it's very hard for borgs to prevent human harm now when someone starts murderboning. You're basically useless outside of dragging bodies because every other way borgs have to prevent harm would cause harm. You've got a flash but that burns out quick and you can't cuff anyone. It's probably just an issue of getting used to it. I used to frequently change to a sec borg when shit hits the fan.

Edit: One idea that might be interesting. Maybe code a special reset board that will turn a borg into a sec borg. Make them un-printable. Put 1 of those boards inside a safe that will only open during red alert, like those space suit lockers on the pods. Put the safe either on the bridge or in the RD's office. That way when there's a major threat to the station a sec borg can be made to help defend.

The IC reason could maybe be that Sec Borgs are incredibly dangerous when they go rogue so they should only be used in an emergency. Like Revs, Cult, or Gangs when they go out of control. Or Ops.

An unslaved Asimov Sec borg could be a kind of an emergency trump card. That way you don't have a validhunting silicon ruining the round for antags all the time but you still have the option when SHTF.

dionysus24779 wrote:I don't care anymore, I'm gonna take a huge break from this game. Will make a lot of people happy too.

I'll miss you friend.

we've moved onto the next test.

By the way, Borgs now seem to be randomly knocked out by damage (even lasers) which if I'm not wrong about this (and I just had a round where I was knocked out by a laser) this is a pretty huge nerf.

Plus Silicons now have ZERO ranged options, meaning humans can just run circles around them and shoot all day every day.

Shad0vvs wrote:I'll miss you friend.

Thanks that's sweet.

dionysus24779 wrote:By the way, Borgs now seem to be randomly knocked out by damage (even lasers) which if I'm not wrong about this (and I just had a round where I was knocked out by a laser) this is a pretty huge nerf.

i don't think this was ever actually added or even coded, just suggested in the ideas board
maybe you ran out of battery or something

dionysus24779 wrote:Plus Silicons now have ZERO ranged options, meaning humans can just run circles around them and shoot all day every day.

and this is a bad thing because...

I am confused and terrified by this thread.

newfren wrote:

Reece wrote:- Or anyone with chem access

Chemists cannot make emps without the assistance of mining (this never happens).

Chemists have access to the ORM and recieve a console message when uranium is added to the machine, last I checked