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Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:04 pm
by ShadowDimentio
Bottom post of the previous page:
Good sportsmanship should be encouraged. If you're a wizard and you're barreling down the hall, and you knock the clown over with a magic missile as they run from you and they beg "PLEASE NO," you oughta elect to give MERCY and SPARE them.
Same for ops I guess. Murderboning is fun, but try to have some restraint where appropriate.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:08 pm
by Zilenan91
>clown gets up
>drops unnerfed PDA
>slips you for 10 seconds
>die
No amount of RP in the world is more fun than being an antag you only get approximately every three hundred years.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:11 pm
by ShadowDimentio
Git gud
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:15 pm
by Zilenan91
I mean I'm the type of guy to carry around a wand belt and charge to kill clowns like that.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:18 pm
by DrPillzRedux
Need less players like Emily Ranger who are either running around spouting memes like REEEEEEEEEEEEE every round or rushing greentext wordlessly.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:20 pm
by Zilenan91
Blame slipping. It's so good that it hands people the reality that they can quite easily murder entire stations.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:27 pm
by Not-Dorsidarf
Zilenan91 wrote:Blame slipping. It's so good that it hands people the reality that they can quite easily murder entire stations.
All the stuns were twice as long in the rose-tinted era tho
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:31 pm
by Zilenan91
Yeah, and they rightly got nerfed. They're still too good, and that's why we still have stun combat.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:50 pm
by Not-Dorsidarf
Zilenan91 wrote:Yeah, and they rightly got nerfed. They're still too good, and that's why we still have stun combat.
except slipmuderspree is a recent response to the dunking of all the good stuns
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:02 am
by Zilenan91
Then nerf it. If it's a problem, fix it, don't tolerate it.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:30 am
by lumipharon
nerfing stuns does not somehow cause more RP.
People murderboning silently with an armblade or revolver rp no more then a guy with a taser or a bottle of lube.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:41 am
by Zilenan91
I've literally said this five times lumi, the reason people don't RP is because they're afraid of being stunned and dying. If stuns were lessened, people would have more time to react and fight back against their attackers, meaning RPing has far less of a risk than it did before.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:48 am
by lumipharon
Getting shot in the face with a revolver or suddenly getting arm bladed to death does not give you 'time to react' (unless you have stuns of your own, and only against the armblade).
Why would a person suddenly want to RP just because they can't get stunned? Whoever gets the drop on the other guy ALWAYS has the advantage, be it a stun, a revolver, a bomb or just runnng the fuck away.
Removing stuns just makes playing a sec officer seriously awful.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:05 am
by DaemonBomb
Stun based warfare seems like it'll be the norm until a more robust (bbbayyyyy) medical system is introduced, and we can have combat be more than just either "You can't move, now I can take my sweet time and make your paper doll black" or "I made your paper doll black before you could react."
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:56 am
by ShadowDimentio
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Zilenan91 wrote:Yeah, and they rightly got nerfed. They're still too good, and that's why we still have stun combat.
except slipmuderspree is a recent response to the dunking of all the good stuns
It's almost as if the playerbase /likes/ stuns.
//gasp
BETTER REMOVE THEM ALL. NO FUN HERE WE COME!
lumipharon wrote:nerfing stuns does not somehow cause more RP.
People murderboning silently with an armblade or revolver rp no more then a guy with a taser or a bottle of lube.
STUN COMBAT RP: "Nyaha! Traitor, I a a a t l l l o n g G G H H A A A H E L P P A A I I"
NON-STUN COMBAT RP: "Nyaha! Traitor, I at long last THUNK have THUNK THUNK managed to THUNK THUNK THUNK THUNK."
Flop. THUNK THUNK THUNK THUNK THUNK
//ghost chat "Well shit."
Removing stuns isn't going to do shit for RP. The difference between getting tazed and murdered while trying to RP and getting beaten by an extinguisher and murdered while trying to RP is pretty minimal.
DaemonBomb wrote:Stun based warfare seems like it'll be the norm until a more robust (bbbayyyyy) medical system is introduced, and we can have combat be more than just either "You can't move, now I can take my sweet time and make your paper doll black" or "I made your paper doll black before you could react."
I don't think that has anything to do with it. Bay's medical system is very robust in the sense it's autistically complicated. It wouldn't last a second over here, what with how if you accidentally go into a vaccuum you have a pretty damn good chance of puncturing a lung and being debilitated until you get it fixed, or how if you take a nasty blow from a traitor/greyshirt/slime/trip you could break an arm and be, again, debilitated until you get it fixed, which might I add takes a FUCKLONG time.
Also if people weren't such salty motherfuckers then neither of those things would be a problem. If you get dunked, you get dunked. Thus is life. Do not pass go. Do not collect 300$.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:02 am
by Saegrimr
People really need to stop using stuns as the boogeyman for everything.
More lethality in the way of things like broken legs, bleeding out exacerbated by running, shit like that would be NICE but don't think the fact that tasers exist is why people don't want to stop and talk to you when they've already committed in their mind to destroying the entirety of the medbay to keep their kill target from being cloned.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:07 am
by ShadowDimentio
Saegrimr wrote:People really need to stop using stuns as the boogeyman for everything.
People, particularly really hardcore powergamers and the coders that try to edit out things that kill them, need to accept that getting fucked is a part of the game.
Basically,
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:12 am
by Zilenan91
So how is getting floored until you get beat to death more fun than being able to fight back and still getting beaten to death. Stuns are good for simplistic combat, but the game and playerbase have evolved to a point that they're no longer needed.
Still though, we do need a better medical system.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:20 am
by ShadowDimentio
Zilenan91 wrote:So how is getting floored until you get beat to death more fun than being able to fight back and still getting beaten to death. Stuns are good for simplistic combat, but the game and playerbase have evolved to a point that they're no longer needed.
Still though, we do need a better medical system.
There's a such thing as "being outclassed". Not EVERY person an antag fights should be an INTENSE 1V1 WHOEVER MAY SURVIVE type deal. Unless they fuck up, there really should be an approach for them to obliterate you.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:22 am
by lumipharon
I endorse a more bay style med system, in the hope that if combat is deadly as fuck, and getting healed is more time consumin/involves relyin on other players, people will be less likely to run around trying to get their valids on.
And if they're not all tryig to powergame and valid at every possible opportunity (and antags are less likely to go murderbone because pulling ribs out of your lungs by yourself probably isn't fun), then maybe, just maybe, there would be more space for RP.
The question of stun based combat I don't think can be linked so much to the whole powergaming and RP thing - "being able to fight back" does not equal RP, it's just a different style of combat.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:24 am
by Zilenan91
It has nothing to do with a different style of combat, this has to do with fun. It's the opposite of fun to be floored until you die.
But yeah we need baymed or something because currently there's no depth to combat.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:27 am
by Saegrimr
Zilenan91 wrote: Stuns are good for simplistic combat, but the game and playerbase have evolved to a point that they're no longer needed.
We dark souls now, wew lads
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:33 am
by DrPillzRedux
That's part of what lifeshit does right. Combat may be rng heavy but actions have consequences. A blow to the gut might pop something inside and require docs to open you up. Breaking an arm or leg renders it useless. You can target armored people and whittle them down. Enemy has such heavy armor on their chest you can't robust them? Aim for the hands and cripple them.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:34 am
by Zilenan91
yeah currently there's literally no point to aiming for anything but the chest/head. You can just stun them and keep hitting until they die.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:36 am
by captain sawrge
it's the same in lfwb except instead you always go for the hands since most people just have armor everywhere else so you can just break the hands and they can't fight back
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:45 am
by Zilenan91
Except people in lifeweb have legs that hurt quite bad when they hit you in the groin or head.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:49 am
by DrPillzRedux
Most people don't have armor in lw. Even then a good kick to the head will fuck up a cerb, especially if they get thrown into a wall or off a ledge.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:06 am
by tuypo1
Stickymayhem wrote:The rules and decisions myself and kor pushed were a response to try and curb this trend towards less and less RP.
People need more freedom to fuck around. We got more RP out of security when they had no rules than when they were restricted again.
I've said this a million fucking times but whatever, the rules you have are like any game, they shape and restrict how people are going to play. You don't really roleplay in monopoly or something because there's little room to do so. Everyone follows the rules, makes set decisions within those rules and has little wiggle room to put themselves into the game, which is what roleplaying requires.
lifeweb has proven that no rules can result in better behaviour. The players there are treated with the respect and intelligence they deserve and as a result they don't start slamming their heads against the rules looking for weak points and rebelling against the man.
I regret not completely stripping away the majority of the rules. Low rules rounds were great. People actually interacted because it was beneficial in every sense. It was more fun for people who enjoy communicating, you damn well better get to know your co-workers so when the bastards invade you know someone has your back, and all the chaos pushes people together and gives them shit to talk about and respond to.
Tabletop games don't have strict rules that stop behaviour, they have rules that define a world. In SS13 that's the code, and that's what we need to rely on more than rules now. This is nearly impossible because coderbus is seperate and not overseen by any kind of design group but that's what will be most effective at changing this shit.
It's a real problem and one of the reasons I started playing less. It's just so hard to do anything different when everything else is punished by other players, and occasionally admins.
we seem to be slipping back into excessive restrictions on security i got warned yesterday for executing a confirmed traitor as warden without getting the captains permision despite being the only security staff on a station with suspected lings and a captain that kept disapering for long periods of time my dutys were piled up as it is i dident have time to watch a perma prisioner. The really weird thing is the admin said that i had an rp reason but still shouldent do it my decision had nothing to do with rp it was because it was the practicle thing to do.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:24 am
by tuypo1
AnonymousNow wrote:I'm fond of the carrot-greentext idea, encouraging people to take less antisocial/powergamey routes to victory through greentext. That's why I suggested the revolution major/minor victory system, based on whether or not you kill (minor) or maroon alive (major) your targets; it functionally changes nothing, but would encorage somewhat more creative play based around kidnap and subduing one's enemies, without forcing people into a different playstyle.
throwing the heads of station instead of putting them down like the dogs they are isent roleplaying its making the round take 2 minuites longer then it needs to
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:29 am
by Wyzack
I find it so fucking bizarre that we have threads like this one concurrently with the remove basil thread. Say what you will about server 2, we actually have an excellent amount of rp there, enough that rounds can still be entertaining even with no antags.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:32 am
by Super Aggro Crag
what is zilenan's obsession with fucking stuns jesus christ this guy said tgstation should be MORE LIKE DOTA 2 are you frigging yanking my chain there lad
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:47 am
by DrPillzRedux
tuypo1 wrote:executing a confirmed traitor as warden without getting the captains permision
Maybe you should, I dunno, try to be fun about it and less GOTTA WIN? If he was just murdering everyone blatantly then yeah execution is fine, tit for tat. If he was just caught with some gear then what's the fun in killing him? You take a key element out of making rounds interesting because of "muh space law" or "muh valids". I wish we could get the goon mindset for sec of not just murdering every confirmed antag and instead using them for things. Fighting in the ring for freedom, exchanging information, working WITH security, using them for experiments. It's always off to the gibber, bed, robotics, or crematory for confirmed traitors no matter what they do, just because that's how most people play.
Same with gang bangers, which is unfortunately by design. Instead of being like goons gang where security is a neutral force until civilians are endangered, sec is FORCED to stop gangs because gangs are trying to use a thing on the station that kills every and they're brainwashing everyone. On goon the gangs just need to get the most points by spraying for terf and collecting weed and guns. Hell the gangs on goon don't force convert, people who want to be in a gang can just go to a gangs base and join by clicking the gangs locker. You can choose to remain neutral on goon gang which is a fucking godsend. That wouldn't work here because people would go for the valad salad and bomb the shit out of gang bases as civilians.
Slings, Lings, cultists, and revs are the only ones who should get no mercy from sec.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:59 am
by tuypo1
DrPillzRedux wrote:Fighting in the ring for freedom
thats retarded.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:01 am
by DrPillzRedux
tuypo1 wrote:DrPillzRedux wrote:Fighting in the ring for freedom
thats retarded.
The MUH VALIDS generation right here folks.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:04 am
by Zilenan91
Super Aggro Crag wrote:what is zilenan's obsession with fucking stuns jesus christ this guy said tgstation should be MORE LIKE DOTA 2 are you frigging yanking my chain there lad
That's not at all what I said. I was comparing our stuns with Dota 2's stuns. The reason stuns work in Dota 2 and not as well here is because they're all low duration. You stun somebody, and then you and your possible gank partners dump damage on them hoping to kill them, but due to how attack animations work you'll usually get at most 2 or 3 extra attacks off on them early game coupled with possible damage the skill itself did without stacking
tl;dr stuns in Dota 2 don't allow people to act as freely as they do here, and stuns there can be dodged in a lot more ways than they can here, even melee ones, and this makes them more fun and more fair in a lot of cases for both parties.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:34 am
by tuypo1
DrPillzRedux wrote:tuypo1 wrote:DrPillzRedux wrote:Fighting in the ring for freedom
thats retarded.
The MUH VALIDS generation right here folks.
i find it hard to belive nanotrasen would employ a warden willing to release dangerous prisioners for sport its im going to get a bunch of people killed because my charecter is crazy.
If its a slow shift sure force prisioners to fight simple mobs for the entairtainment of the crew but dont go freeing people.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:37 am
by DrPillzRedux
On the contrary, such sport would boost the morale of the crew.
You can claim "lore rp excuses" all you want, you're still just a boring valid killer.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:49 am
by tuypo1
yeah thats why i said feel free to make them fight but moral is useless if all the crew are dead because you released a syndie
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:03 am
by lumipharon
I've hired captured traitors or lings into sec before as HoS, an used them as my beatstick for dirty work. Shit's great.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:06 am
by ShadowDimentio
So? That's fun.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:08 am
by DrPillzRedux
tuypo1 wrote:yeah thats why i said feel free to make them fight but moral is useless if all the crew are dead because you released a syndie
What harm is a traitor gonna do with no tools and access, Toolbox a few assistants? Cloning exists and is free. You think they wouldn't be monitored? The AI would watch them like a hawk, not to mention tracking implants.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:12 am
by Steelpoint
Trusting a captured antagonist, such as a ling or traitor, as security is akin to throwing a loaded dice and seeing what happens.
I was sadly not around for the low rules rounds but considering the high praise it got I say why don't we extend and try low rules again for a few weeks?
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:15 am
by lumipharon
Steelpoint wrote:Trusting a captured antagonist, such as a ling or traitor, as security is akin to having fun while playing a video game.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:18 am
by tuypo1
DrPillzRedux wrote:tuypo1 wrote:yeah thats why i said feel free to make them fight but moral is useless if all the crew are dead because you released a syndie
What harm is a traitor gonna do with no tools and access, Toolbox a few assistants? Cloning exists and is free. You think they wouldn't be monitored? The AI would watch them like a hawk, not to mention tracking implants.
have you ever tried getting a kill mix for a chem implant chemistry rarely comes through.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:25 am
by Danowar
Steelpoint wrote:Trusting a captured antagonist, such as a ling or traitor, as security is akin to throwing a loaded dice and seeing what happens.
I was sadly not around for the low rules rounds but considering the high praise it got I say why don't we extend and try low rules again for a few weeks?
It really does depend on how each sides are willing to play along or not. There was this one instance where I tried to set up a "shady surplus store" in the art room with a syndicate crate. It went along swimmingly at first, with the HoP and Cap being fine with my antics as I was mostly just selling non-harmful goods. However, the HoS wasn't happy about this at all, and flipped his lid when he searched my store and found a stash of various syndicate explosives in my locker. I was brigged for a bit after that. Relations were eventually mended after the crew found out that the AI was rogue, and I gave the HoS a friendly reminder that my confiscated explosives would probably be rather handy right about now.
Of course, when I tried this stunt again on another round later on, I was wordlessly arrested the moment I announced my store. I miss goofing off like that.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:40 am
by tuypo1
lumipharon wrote:Steelpoint wrote:Trusting a captured antagonist, such as a ling or traitor, as security is akin to having fun while playing a video game.
even if that was the case he had proven to not be trustworthy he kept trying to tell me to let him go so he could get his id instead of letting me know where it was (im not sure if he planed to shoot me or just dident want me to see the pistol)
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:46 am
by Saegrimr
tuypo1 wrote:i got warned yesterday for executing a confirmed traitor as warden
You sure? Because I just went and checked the last 3 days worth of logs, and you've never been adminPMed or even have a note on your account about it.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:52 am
by tuypo1
hm odd maybe it was longer ago then i thought or it was a really vivid dream.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:57 am
by tuypo1
auctualy the logs only update every 24 hours it may not be up yet (or is that only the public logs)
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:58 am
by Saegrimr
The public logs are on the delay, and those don't show ahelps or PMs anyway.
Re: RP is at a dangerous low
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:01 am
by Not-Dorsidarf
Saegrimr wrote:tuypo1 wrote:i got warned yesterday for executing a confirmed traitor as warden
You sure? Because I just went and checked the last 3 days worth of logs, and you've never been adminPMed or even have a note on your account about it.
Time to summon the dread niknakflak, detector of dupe accounts and annihilator of multikeyers, methinks.