/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Falamazeer wrote:And you're at least half as bad a shitposter, My evidence lies north, beyond the great walls of text.

Hey now, I just call people's bullshit out as I see it in a very inflammatory manner. But yes you're right. something something paprika

Falamazeer wrote:And he never really left so... That screams "committed player" I think he's willing to do everything in his power to ensure that only his positive merits make it in.
Either that or "Obsessed" which is admittedly as likely

Screams autism to me. I would know, i've got a good few years of study and hands on experience in dealing with autists.

Falamazeer wrote: And he never really left so... That screams "committed player" I think he's willing to do everything in his power to ensure that only his positive merits make it in.
Either that or "Obsessed" which is admittedly as likely

Terbs' IC behavior ranges from the truly legendary and fantastic to the permabannable, but honestly I don't think his IC behavior is relevant to the concern of unblacklisting him. You don't earn a blacklisting for IC behavior. Terbs repeatedly encouraged players to commit suicide, provided advice as to method and technique, and did this over a period of years and continuing into the present day. Like, I could give a fuck less if he deserves a second chance or not, his OOC behavior is a risk this community can't afford, so "deserves" doesn't enter into it.

Possibly autistic yes., And I'm sure you draw inspiration for your argument from threads similar to this one wherein beardbeard was argued back on to the server.
My argument is that 'this' is not 'that'

My first piece of evidence is myself, I called it, flensing was a shitlord and he never stopped being a shitlord, I don't argue to 'free hat mccolough' because it's trendy. I argued two peoples merits, The terbs, and cuban pete. that's it. Second, flensing never spent a considerable amount of time anywhere close to a year to appeal. Perma'd people are typically typically told to try again.
This is the equivalant of earning a perma ban and arguing for a timed one based on your merit.
He's got a double perma, or extra perma, and it's being argued down to a normal perma, which would be time served at this point.

It's not like it's the end of the world if we get burned on it either, Beardbeard fucked a probation off of the special snowflake perma do not ever unban list.
And he's right back where he was, with even less chance of ever coming back.

Even if the argument is "This guys is totally not 2beard", I could make the same arguement for...

Deathhoof! https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3670
I'm sure someone must have enjoyed playing with him at some point, maybe. He's definitely not 2beard.
This guy, who nobody probably knows. https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3279
He probably roleplayed once. I'm also fairly sure he's not 2beard.
This clearly underage but hasn't actually stated it yet so I can't ban him for it guy. https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3461
Actually wait, bad example, bluespace DID unban him for some unknown reason.
Or this lovely bunch of people, who we've been chasing manually for about a month until we stepped up our ban game. https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3347
I mean its three people, so theres a statistically higher chance of it being 2beard, but still unlikely. I'm sure each of them would tell you how the other is a great player.
Good ol' Kavaloosh. https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3382
I'm not entirely convinced its not 2beard, but that would probably be insulting to 2beard. I honestly can't even facetiously say anybody would want him back. He was just pure garbage in game and the forum thing was a pretty lame excuse when it should have just be "Rule 0 get the fuck out".

But like...
What's the harm in letting them back in? We could totally just ban them again.

Bob Dobbington wrote:

Falamazeer wrote: And he never really left so... That screams "committed player" I think he's willing to do everything in his power to ensure that only his positive merits make it in.
Either that or "Obsessed" which is admittedly as likely

Terbs' IC behavior ranges from the truly legendary and fantastic to the permabannable, but honestly I don't think his IC behavior is relevant to the concern of unblacklisting him. You don't earn a blacklisting for IC behavior. Terbs repeatedly encouraged players to commit suicide, provided advice as to method and technique, and did this over a period of years and continuing into the present day. Like, I could give a fuck less if he deserves a second chance or not, his OOC behavior is a risk this community can't afford, so "deserves" doesn't enter into it.

If we're going to bring Terbs' OOC behavior into this, it might also be a risk he personally cannot afford, because I don't really think playing spessmens is going to have a positive effect on his life at this point in time. You could probably say the same for a lot of people but Terbs' case is way more extreme.

Bob Dobbington wrote:

Falamazeer wrote: And he never really left so... That screams "committed player" I think he's willing to do everything in his power to ensure that only his positive merits make it in.
Either that or "Obsessed" which is admittedly as likely

Terbs' IC behavior ranges from the truly legendary and fantastic to the permabannable, but honestly I don't think his IC behavior is relevant to the concern of unblacklisting him. You don't earn a blacklisting for IC behavior. Terbs repeatedly encouraged players to commit suicide, provided advice as to method and technique, and did this over a period of years and continuing into the present day. Like, I could give a fuck less if he deserves a second chance or not, his OOC behavior is a risk this community can't afford, so "deserves" doesn't enter into it.

While I agree it's horrible for people to be saying those kinds of things to eachother, this is a goddamn videogame community centered around a shitty free2play BYOND game.

If you're coming here because you're in dire need of social care you're sort-of abusing this community.
I'm all for people in need of help approaching and receiving some kind of friendly advice, PRIVATELY, we're not self-help-central and it might actually do some good for people looking for an outlet for that kind of shit to let them know this is a really shitty choice for that and they should seek professional help.

We're reinforcing bad habits by putting ourselves up as "/tg/station: SS13 server and teenage crisis hotline"

1:1 if someone approaches me as a friend I'll do everything I can to help, but when someone just throws all their dirty laundry in the air in front of the entire community they should understand there might be some potentially negative reaction to it. It does not help other people who might be in similar situations to see others falling the fuck apart. You police this too heavily and we really will become the SJW nightmare frontier people joke about.

You are savagely overreacting to the comments of someone whose life is also not all that well put together, but he is at least making the decision to vent that in a controlled environment regarded by most (and advertised) as the garbage dump of all of /tg/station's verbal bullshit. You are sorting through that garbage for bits of things he's said and trying to sell them as die-by-the-sword above-board remarks he made.

Ayyyy linking that kavaloosh thread reminds me.

An0n3 wrote:It's okay if people break rules, have a history of evading permabans, and sexually harass other users as long as you personally enjoy playing with them. 10/10 adminning promote this guy asap.

(snip)

As the person who blacklisted kavaloosh for this, not banned, I'd strongly recommend you keep him on the list and remind you that's really MSO's decision anyway. kavaloosh should still be forum banned, and if he wants to appeal his blacklisting traditionally he'd have to talk to the host 1:1.

But hey I got outta this shit so I don't have to deal with it anymore. If you guys want to unban kavaloosh and simultaneously tell Remie and co to fuck off because kavaloosh is so much fun to play with that's your call.

An0n3 wrote:You police this too heavily and we really will become the SJW nightmare frontier people joke about.

You are savagely overreacting to the comments of someone whose life is also not all that well put together, but he is at least making the decision to vent that in a controlled environment regarded by most (and advertised) as the garbage dump of all of /tg/station's verbal bullshit. You are sorting through that garbage for bits of things he's said and trying to sell them as die-by-the-sword above-board remarks he made.

AYYYYYYY

Singling out a specific member of the community and harassing them via the forums and OOC is a bit different from shitposting on Singulo.

The difference between Kavaloosh and Terbs is that forum banning Terbs worked and people were smart enough to stop giving him opportunities to continue. I haven't asked once for his forum bans to be removed and like has been suggested numerous times, keeping them in place is probably a solid idea.

So you're saying the smart thing to do is to stop giving repeat shitters second, third, fifth chances?

Let the punishment fit the crime.

Kavaloosh couldn't keep his bullshit out of the game, so he got bounced from the game.

When Terbs was given a probation and allowed to play again for a day he was able to keep a lid on whatever destructive impulses he might have. He was banned again for something incredibly minor.

Hell, the difference between terbs and all these shitters seagramir is trying to compare him to is that there has been will to unban terms for a long ass time. He was good fun to play this game with, and it is worth the virtually nonexistent risk to let him try again.

Lol y dunt we unb& every1 then is a shitty argument, because as the poll is showing more than half of the forum community want him to come back to some degree. We have nothing to lose

Oh look, more personal attacks this time in the form of unsubtle hints at possible hypocrisy.
I'ma just ignore that and point out the flaws in your links from the other blacklisted people.

"But like...
What's the harm in letting them back in? We could totally just ban them again."

You phrase it in a way like your exasperated with it, but really, what's stopping you?
Either he's shit and people will agree with you, or he's not, and you're being a dick for no raisens.


It's like you're implying we have a rotating door here, But do we? when there is three pages of debate on the matter?
We literately have nothing to loose. and another good player with a semi-positive name to gain.

An0n3 wrote:While I agree it's horrible for people to be saying those kinds of things to eachother, this is a goddamn videogame community centered around a shitty free2play BYOND game.

If you're coming here because you're in dire need of social care you're sort-of abusing this community.
I'm all for people in need of help approaching and receiving some kind of friendly advice, PRIVATELY, we're not self-help-central and it might actually do some good for people looking for an outlet for that kind of shit to let them know this is a really shitty choice for that and they should seek professional help.

We're reinforcing bad habits by putting ourselves up as "/tg/station: SS13 server and teenage crisis hotline"

See I actually agree with you on this. But this is more or less everything terbs has been doing/posting/behaving ever since being banned originally. About 75% of his posts fall under this "self help central/crisis hotline" umbrella. It's attention-seeking behavior, and the constantly present carrot of his potentially being unbanned for being a shitpost meme only serves to reinforce it. I'm not saying this makes him an awful person, because I'm sure whatever attention he's getting for his antics is preferable to the shit he goes on (and on and on and on) about in his real life, but it just serves to drag everyone down and ultimately is good for neither him nor the community -- especially when it stops being about himself and starts being about other people who are suicidal or whatever.

tl;dr: IC his playstyle is that of a shitter, OOC his relationship to the community is unhealthy at best and actively toxic at worst (the suicide thing).

It's funny you bring up Kavaloosh at all because he suggested I was the best judge of character around and that more people should listen to me when it comes to this shit.

kavaloosh1 wrote:An0n3 for host, he can see into people's hearts for who they really are, even if he may be a communist.

Singulo is oranges' domain and only his domain. It shouldn't be the /tg/administration's job to police its userbase based on things people are saying in what is a forum entirely created so that the administration can't use things you say there against you.

If you see someone posting awful things on Singulo, tell oranges to delete it or ban them. If he's not doing that then it's his failing and his own silent-approval of the things they're doing and saying there.

I'm surprised more people aren't latching on to the fact that you're asking the administration to take charge and start punishing people and holding them accountable for things they say on that board. Last I checked public opinion was overwhelmingly negative about that.

Wyzack wrote:Hell, the difference between terbs and all these shitters seagramir is trying to compare him to is that there has been will to unban terms for a long ass time. He was good fun to play this game with, and it is worth the virtually nonexistent risk to let him try again.

Lol y dunt we unb& every1 then is a shitty argument, because as the poll is showing more than half of the forum community want him to come back to some degree. We have nothing to lose

"But he's my friend therefore he should be unbanned!" Is equally stupid.

Hell, its not even my words.

An0n3 wrote:as long as you personally enjoy playing with them.

Nobody has actually given any reason why repeat ban evasion (listed in two of the threads I linked) and the rampant shitposting (listed in two others of the threads I linked, kavaloosh included!) should be allowed back. It's literally "maybe he changed ayy"

Falamazeer wrote: "But like...
What's the harm in letting them back in? We could totally just ban them again."

You phrase it in a way like your exasperated with it, but really, what's stopping you?
Either he's shit and people will agree with you, or he's not, and you're being a dick for no raisens.


It's like you're implying we have a rotating door here, But do we? when there is three pages of debate on the matter?
We literately have nothing to lose*. and another good player with a semi-positive name to gain.

Considering he's still banned currently and has been for a while, we actually have nothing to lose by keeping him banned. I'm working zero-sum here.

Yes I am implying we have a rotating door here. Anybody can get away with practically anything here by at least pretending to show remorse for their actions. Permabans are rarely permanent except for a select few. That trio of ban evaders that would regularly log on to just metacomms and rampant grief basil? We even gave THEM MULTIPLE chances. Its pretty ridiculous.

An0n3 wrote: I'm surprised more people aren't latching on to the fact that you're asking the administration to take charge and start punishing people and holding them accountable for things they say on that board. Last I checked public opinion was overwhelmingly negative about that.

I never implied that. I'm asking the administration to stop giving people who have a history of being actual garbage multiple chances just to humor your "#FREE MY FRIENDS" campaign.

bandit wrote:-snip-

I'm glad we're finally agreeing on some things. I agree that his OOC behavior has been atrocious. If you've been following along in some of our other conversations between him and myself you may have seen me counsel him to go seek real actual help instead of spewing this same kind of negativity out in different areas. I've even said that maybe this place is not the healthiest place for him to be if that is how he really feels.

But I've come to understand that there's a different between the IC Terbs and the OOC Terbs. The IC Terbs can play the game fine and in a way a lot of people find surprisingly entertaining. He was even given goddamn admin powers momentarily by people and had a fun event. I would not have trusted most of the playerbase to be able to accomplish that.

Like TechnoAlchemist and others have suggested, muzzle the pug if you have to. He's shown himself to be a better player and I think he's capable of putting a lid on things if he understands it's required for him to be able to play here again.

Saegrimr wrote:-snip-

That comment was directed at Bob Dobbington.

Bandit-
"attention seeking behavior"

Were't you wexler? didn't you get so fed up about people bitching about you're terrible playstyle(You've gotten better, not starting a fight on that front) that you made a big drama thread asking to be banned if you're so bad? I'm almost positive you were, fortune ray amiright?, So yeah, people indulge in self pity and dramatic flair from time to time, oooh literately satan.


If not, completely ignore me excepting that it's been two FUGGIN years since he broke those windows and otherwise shat the bed. It's incredibly petty to continue hammering him as toxic this long in.
and singulo behavior is neither here nor there, there is no rules he's bound to to not be a donkass to suicidals, and again, it probably should e: NOT be on boards affiliated with us as a community even the unmoderated parts.

Yes I am implying we have a rotating door here. Anybody can get away with practically anything here by at least pretending to show remorse for their actions. Permabans are rarely permanent except for a select few. That trio of ban evaders that would regularly log on to just metacomms and rampant grief basil? We even gave THEM MULTIPLE chances. Its pretty ridiculous.

Ok then, that's at least something I can wrap my head around, But you gotta see the logic in #FREE MY FRIENDS don't happen to friendless people

People who are neither retarded, nor griefers jump on this bandwagon not to personally frustrate you, but because the 'friend' in question is NOT the the unquenchable hell lord that you have no frame of referance (self admission) for labeling him as.

Give a little credit to the community you police, maybe there is a damn good reason terbs gets argued for, A roving band of frothing retards did not put the poll where it is.

An0n3 wrote: While I agree it's horrible for people to be saying those kinds of things to eachother, this is a goddamn videogame community centered around a shitty free2play BYOND game.

I love how you always phrase what Terbs is doing in the most general possible terms, couched in terms that would be appropriate to discussing someone insulting someone else's hair. Terbs did not say a mean thing; he egged on a suicide.

An0n3 wrote: If you're coming here because you're in dire need of social care you're sort-of abusing this community.

I'm all for people in need of help approaching and receiving some kind of friendly advice, PRIVATELY, we're not self-help-central and it might actually do some good for people looking for an outlet for that kind of shit to let them know this is a really shitty choice for that and they should seek professional help.

We're reinforcing bad habits by putting ourselves up as "/tg/station: SS13 server and teenage crisis hotline"

This glibly misunderstands the point. Nobody is coming to singulo because they think they're gonna get good counseling for their personal trauma. They were already on singulo. And for Christ's sake, An0n3, are you really trying to make the argument that using the community for "social care" is "abuse" in the fucking terbs unban thread? That's literally all he uses the community for.

An0n3 wrote: 1:1 if someone approaches me as a friend I'll do everything I can to help, but when someone just throws all their dirty laundry in the air in front of the entire community they should understand there might be some potentially negative reaction to it. It does not help other people who might be in similar situations to see others falling the fuck apart. You police this too heavily and we really will become the SJW nightmare frontier people joke about.

Yes, this thought process you're describing is exactly the rational and logical process that most people contemplating suicide go through. It makes perfect sense to expect people who are literally thinking about killing themselves to respect the social norms of not revealing that shit in public forums.

An0n3 wrote: You are savagely overreacting to the comments of someone whose life is also not all that well put together, but he is at least making the decision to vent that in a controlled environment regarded by most (and advertised) as the garbage dump of all of /tg/station's verbal bullshit. You are sorting through that garbage for bits of things he's said and trying to sell them as die-by-the-sword above-board remarks he made.

He's not venting in a controlled environment, he's encouraging suicides in a deliberately uncontrolled environment. I didn't have to sort or search through shit because all of this happened a few days ago.

I stand by what I said the last time he asked: All I want from him is a promise that when he has Genius Grief ideas, he waits a few rounds until he gets antagonist status. That's all I want from him. And he explained to me that he doesn't feel he can do that, so the ban should probably remain.

Falamazeer wrote:Bandit-
"attention seeking behavior"

Were't you wexler? didn't you get so fed up about people bitching about you're terrible playstyle(You've gotten better, not starting a fight on that front) that you made a big drama thread asking to be banned if you're so bad? I'm almost positive you were, fortune ray amiright?, So yeah, people indulge in self pity and dramatic flair from time to time, oooh literately satan.

There's a difference about being salty about in-game stuff and the combination complaining/lamenting/bragging about overdosing on drugs or drunk driving or choking your underage girlfriend or being suicidal or encouraging others to be suicidal or the things that made up most of Terbs' "contributions" to the forums. Singulo is a red herring, the only reason he's doing it here is because he's banned from here and I guarantee you if he's unbanned he'll start back up on the actual forums during his next bender.

And if he does, he'll be told to fuck off to singuloth, Ya know, like normal people are, or forum warned, temp banned etc etc
You people act like once the permaban is off he ascends to the throne and becomes an unstoppable god-king of spessman.

Now look. I was on the free terbs train. I was the person who decided to ignore the blacklist and let him on the forums, I was all for and happy with the idea of unbanning him for april furst. But recent events can't be ignored.

As multiple people in the thread have noted, terb's habit of trying to encourage somebody to commit suicide happened as recently as a week ago.

Considering certain events from the past few months on that topic, I'm gonna put my foot down, sans a unanimous objection from headmin bus, This appeal is closed, and terbs will not be getting unblacklisted.