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Nobody has complained about the Emag like ever. Why would it be changed then?Cobby wrote:breaking up emag functions are good (some functions shouldn’t even be present), if the issue is that the doormag got under tuned then just raise it a bit
You don't understand, in that vote they could vote for both. We've literally had a vote where they could show if they wanted 1 or a combination of both in some form and the response was no. Most players have either adapted or liked no cloning, specially if they ever touched Medical.legoscape wrote: You got a point. I think there needs to be vote for Cloners or Sleepers and if they want it back or not. So essentially 2 votes. But yeah I'll say a majority of people want a combination of the two.
It has 3 charges so it's primarily for escaping, if you want to break into places, then hack in, like you should be doing.NecromancerAnne wrote:I will say, since this threads up again, the fact most doors are double airlocks with shared access really makes the doormags limited and extremely slow charge regain pretty painful. A full three minutes on a single charge is an immense amount of time for what you're normally using the doormag for, and at 3 a pop buying multiple seems an utter waste to just using tools.
I genuinely don't understand why I would want this as a traitor given I can't reasonably make it very deep into a department with it and at that point I'm going to turn to tools anyway. It's mostly at the fault of map design than the item.
Every set of doors being in twos makes sense but does mean getting into a major interior department hallway can eat up almost 2/3rds of your valuable charges. I want to emag doors because I have to make it in and out quickly. But since it doesn't really do that anymore and only opens small area of doors permanently, I would prefer reasonable deniability of a set of tools I can reacquire if I'm captured rather than spend murder dollars on it and blow my cover wide open.
If the idea is that I am more liable to be caught, I'll probably prepare to be caught (or I'll brute force it through violence and kill my way into a department on stolen access as path of least resistance proves increasingly viable) and hope I don't get killed for B&E by some overzealous idiot. The last bit being the primary reason why people take the path of least resistance mind you. There was no talking to be had, just a binary valid/not valid, which tends to make anyone banking on conversation rather cynical, so I consider it as a potential perspective a player might take.
It definitely kicked ops in the teeth and that's cool. This is a good balance change for ops. But my initial concerns with it being crap for traitors when the pr was first proposed is pretty much correct. Maybe it's something they probably don't need and shouldn't be using in the first place, so maybe it'd be better removed from the traitor uplink. They still get syndicate toolboxes after all, so they do have options in their uplink for trespass.
Escape doesn't quite work, since dropping bolts prevents the emag from being useful for an escape, and you can't rely on evading the attention from the AI. Especially if people call for help on the right channels, since the AI can zoom their camera to anywhere with a camera. For it to be an escape tool, you'd need to pre-emptively set up that route, if that makes sense. Or have it changed to unbolt the door (which might make stuff like the vault too easy an area to enter with a doormag). Old emag could set up escape routes, but that was also why it was useful for blitzing into an area, since it could nullify every door on the way to where you needed to go. Give too much power back and that'll become possible again if you're not careful.oranges wrote:It has 3 charges so it's primarily for escaping, if you want to break into places, then hack in, like you should be doing.
be the change you wanna seeoranges wrote:it should be changed to lift bolts then
Yeah that sounds like a sound way to make sure it doesn't wind up too good for aggression. I like that, though I'd also like it to toggle between bolting and unbolting. No need to take away options that are already good and reward clever planning.oranges wrote:it should be changed to lift bolts then
I will take your kneecapsSheodir wrote:be the change you wanna seeoranges wrote:it should be changed to lift bolts then
This is kind of an invalid point because the "overpowered" culture is hereRG4ORDR wrote:Nobody has complained about the Emag like ever. Why would it be changed then?Cobby wrote:breaking up emag functions are good (some functions shouldn’t even be present), if the issue is that the doormag got under tuned then just raise it a bit
I have taken issue with the emag long before i became a maintainer and was strictly a player. It acts as a way for people to dump weird interactions that don't really make sense (heck someone added an emag feature to a plushie before it got reverted) but it gets okayed from a balance POV because you had to dump 6 TC into it without considering that the same 6 TC can be used ad nauseum to a wide variety of aspects that are also balanced around "well you gotta dump 6 TC".RG4ORDR wrote:Nobody has complained about the Emag like ever. Why would it be changed then?Cobby wrote:breaking up emag functions are good (some functions shouldn’t even be present), if the issue is that the doormag got under tuned then just raise it a bit
breaking up the emag to either separate entities or have them a way to be done without being a traitor and investing TC isn't really a radical position.It's the oranges x cobby otp. While I'm fairly certain what motivates oranges to aid and abet radical changes despite not playing we may never understand what motivates Cobby.
I could vote for all three. You should only be able to vote for one.Sheodir wrote:You don't understand, in that vote they could vote for both. We've literally had a vote where they could show if they wanted 1 or a combination of both in some form and the response was no. Most players have either adapted or liked no cloning, specially if they ever touched Medical.legoscape wrote: You got a point. I think there needs to be vote for Cloners or Sleepers and if they want it back or not. So essentially 2 votes. But yeah I'll say a majority of people want a combination of the two.
Voting for all three means voting for nothing, why is that even an issue?legoscape wrote:I could vote for all three. You should only be able to vote for one.Sheodir wrote:You don't understand, in that vote they could vote for both. We've literally had a vote where they could show if they wanted 1 or a combination of both in some form and the response was no. Most players have either adapted or liked no cloning, specially if they ever touched Medical.legoscape wrote: You got a point. I think there needs to be vote for Cloners or Sleepers and if they want it back or not. So essentially 2 votes. But yeah I'll say a majority of people want a combination of the two.
This.oranges wrote:it should be changed to lift bolts then
They could not.legoscape wrote:I could vote for all three. You should only be able to vote for one.Sheodir wrote:You don't understand, in that vote they could vote for both. We've literally had a vote where they could show if they wanted 1 or a combination of both in some form and the response was no. Most players have either adapted or liked no cloning, specially if they ever touched Medical.legoscape wrote: You got a point. I think there needs to be vote for Cloners or Sleepers and if they want it back or not. So essentially 2 votes. But yeah I'll say a majority of people want a combination of the two.
Ya know this is retarded semantics by this point. Nothing is going to be done about these changes.Armhulen wrote:Voting for all three means voting for nothing, why is that even an issue?legoscape wrote:I could vote for all three. You should only be able to vote for one.Sheodir wrote:You don't understand, in that vote they could vote for both. We've literally had a vote where they could show if they wanted 1 or a combination of both in some form and the response was no. Most players have either adapted or liked no cloning, specially if they ever touched Medical.legoscape wrote: You got a point. I think there needs to be vote for Cloners or Sleepers and if they want it back or not. So essentially 2 votes. But yeah I'll say a majority of people want a combination of the two.
this gives it some utility the emag didn't while still being very limited and i like itoranges wrote:it should be changed to lift bolts then
its called head swap into a monkeyman and defib to cure 99% of the illnessHelios wrote:Having made that poll, I can tell you adding cloners or sleepers back lost.
I was on the wrong side of that argument, even though I would like to see some version of cloners back in the game.