/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

5u tricord heals 25 of all types of damage. The whole idea of chemists leaving tricord on the desk is specifically to avoid wasting packs/better chems on assistant who got zapped on a door or victims of le fanny punch clown. I guess the issue is that if people are capable of moving on their own and chemist is bored, they stand there and eat pills until they are topped off, disregarding that most of the time said people only have tickle damage and might well be capable of sleeping it off. Nevermind that the pile of tricord leaves plenty of opportunity for antag chemists to put poison into the pills to randomly fuck people, or antag MDs to get the chemist lynched.

My suggestion was basically to have tricord work as the lazy way out of healing someone from crit, fixing people up until they can walk. Perhaps the opposite might be more sound, making it work if you are above 75 health? Any more and you've had more than a brief run through a breached hall or a single door shocking, and rightfully should get medical attention, but if it's just a bump, take some tylenoltricord and walk it off.

Tis a nice idea to nerf Tricord, but you run into the same problem we are having now. People would get pissed that the Tricord isnt working, not bother to learn why, then go complain that its broken and needs reverting. Then when you try to explain it, they complain that chems shouldnt have effects or conditions like that.

Why not make it so that we have Star Trek chemicals that work the way they used to, but considerably weaker?

Make tricord work 1 unit:(1&1&1) health recovered. Make Bicard, Kelotane and Dyoveline work 1:2, and their upgraded versions 1:3 (but capable of being combined with their weaker versions for the benefits of both, as normal). Above all, make them metabolise slowly, so that they're reliable medicines that can be fairly quickly whipped up, but are a bit pathetic on their own - so the (fixed) Goon chemicals would be more complicated, but more potent in various ways. You can heal yourself okay with some basic pills and patches, but you need a medical kit with bruisepacks and ointment, or a doctor with a medical belt full of complicated wonders full of chemistry, to get you back up to speed in ten seconds.

That would solve the invisible problems that some coders have with Star Trek chemistry, if I've read correctly.

AnonymousNow wrote:Why not make it so that we have Star Trek chemicals that work the way they used to, but considerably weaker?

Make tricord work 1 unit:(1&1&1) health recovered. Make Bicard, Kelotane and Dyoveline work 1:2, and their upgraded versions 1:3 (but capable of being combined with their weaker versions for the benefits of both, as normal). Above all, make them metabolise slowly, so that they're reliable medicines that can be fairly quickly whipped up, but are a bit pathetic on their own - so the (fixed) Goon chemicals would be more complicated, but more potent in various ways. You can heal yourself okay with some basic pills and patches, but you need a medical kit with bruisepacks and ointment, or a doctor with a medical belt full of complicated wonders full of chemistry, to get you back up to speed in ten seconds.

That would solve the invisible problems that some coders have with Star Trek chemistry, if I've read correctly.

previously, 5u tricord healed 23:23:23 - making it 5:5:5 makes it 4.6x weaker
bicard + equivalents healed 26 - healing 10 is 2.6x weaker
dermaline was 39, so 15 is also 2.6x weaker

(brute:burn:tox)
tricord = 1:1:1
bicard: 2:0:0
kelotane: 0:2:0
dylovene: 0:0:2
[[bicard-but-better]]: 3:0:0
dermaline: 0:3:0
[[dylovene-but-better]: 0:0:3
doctor's delight: 5:5:5 (honk, 20u DD pills)
(do we even have a better version of bicard and dylovene in tgchem? if not, we need 'em)

tricord seems nerfed a bit too much compared to the rest - maybe make it heal 1.5 per unit? or are decimals awful ideas for healing

Vigilare wrote:

AnonymousNow wrote:(You get the point)

previously, 5u tricord healed 23:23:23 - making it 5:5:5 makes it 4.6x weaker
bicard + equivalents healed 26 - healing 10 is 2.6x weaker
dermaline was 39, so 15 is also 2.6x weaker

(brute:burn:tox)
tricord = 1:1:1
bicard: 2:0:0
kelotane: 0:2:0
dylovene: 0:0:2
[[bicard-but-better]]: 3:0:0
dermaline: 0:3:0
[[dylovene-but-better]: 0:0:3
doctor's delight: 5:5:5 (honk, 20u DD pills)
(do we even have a better version of bicard and dylovene in tgchem? if not, we need 'em)

tricord seems nerfed a bit too much compared to the rest - maybe make it heal 1.5 per unit? or are decimals awful ideas for healing

We're on the right track, I think.

- bring tgchem staples back (bicard, kelotane, dylovene, dexalin, dermaline, tricord, DD)
- maybe bring dexplus/inaprov back too?
- healing ratios as above
- lower the speed of healing

dexalin I think healed the same as bicard/kelotane/dylovene before, but for oxyloss
and dex-plus was 100% oxyloss healing, bye bye lexorin

Vigilare wrote:(do we even have a better version of bicard and dylovene in tgchem? if not, we need 'em)

Milk is a lesser version of bicard. Toxin is ONLY cured by antitox and tricord, it's naturally a more troublesome damage type.

Balut wrote:

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Frankly, instead of just brainstorming ideas, I think everyone should decide what exactly it is that they want from sleepers. What role do you think they should play, if any?

I think sleepers ought to be good, fast healing that is stuck in one place, in comparison with cryo's immobile, good and slow healing

Balut wrote:sleepers ought to be good, fast healing that is stuck in one place

Balut wrote:cryo's immobile, good and slow healing

And what about that setup makes cryo worth existing?

Lizards also have unclean blood unsuited for humans.

Not from a mechanical standpoint, just as a social taboo.

Cipher3 wrote:

Balut wrote:sleepers ought to be good, fast healing that is stuck in one place

Balut wrote:cryo's immobile, good and slow healing

And what about that setup makes cryo worth existing?

They fix crit, sleepers don't. I sorta assumed this was inherent in the discussion of the two.


Blood transfusions are a good idea, especially cuz' they're different than just the surgeries that've been suggested. Also presumably at some point someone will get infused with ketchup, and it will be great.

Alex Crimson wrote:Tis a nice idea to nerf Tricord, but you run into the same problem we are having now. People would get pissed that the Tricord isnt working, not bother to learn why, then go complain that its broken and needs reverting. Then when you try to explain it, they complain that chems shouldnt have effects or conditions like that.

Players bitching about nerfs isn't exactly an unexpected phenomenon. It IS a problem that such a change would go buried in a changelog or something, though - probably a good idea to make a bigger deal about announcing it. Bold it, put it at the top of the changelog, yell about it in OOC, whatever.

This is happening? I haven't gotten to play in awhile, so uh, I haven't noticed. That said, tricord heals fucking everything, in large amounts, and is easy as fuck to produce. It's not like the game is balanced around being in danger from multiple kinds of damage constantly or anything, so Tricord's pretty fukken broken and deserving of nerfs.

Like even looking at Vigilare's little comparison thing a couple posts above me, 23 is not significantly less than 26, especially when combined with the benefits of being an drug (and thus not being limited by or caring about application location) and not having to deal with diagnosing what kinda damage needs to be healed and juggling inventory for the proper medkit containing the proper meds. TL;DR shit's fuckin' OP.