/tg/Station 13

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Cobby wrote:stop adding baddies to the mix if you’re not going to touch primary antags who are scaled to be the sole antag of the round!!!

ideally we'd have a gamemode that mixes a bunch of side antags roundstart as the game mode instead of traitor and changeling, so nuke ops can stay away from traitors revolvering the cap and nuking immediately

They are not “side” antags then though :^)

Currently all of the side antags save one or two (like nightmare) are designed to be easy to detect, and grow in power as the game progresses, usually to the point where if ignored they will dominate the round, to the detriment of the round's main antag. This is grossly apparent in "team" side antags like xeno, swarmer, and also to blob.

The solution to lings is to have *less* lings, not to just give them potential to spawn in every round, where they can undetectably murderbone until they inevitably dominate the round.

The simplest solution is to just make lings easier to kill and, again, to have less of them.

ideally we'd have a gamemode that mixes a bunch of side antags roundstart as the game mode instead of traitor and changeling, so nuke ops can stay away from traitors revolvering the cap and nuking immediately

This would probably be extremely awful and the last thing I want to add to a potential returning Blob game mode is Blob + Literally Anything Else

So the ling scaling coefficient (number of players online / coeff = number of lings)* got set to 4 in the config, and by default it is 6.

At some point someone with remote cranked up the number of changeling spawns for some reason.

*Formula for traitorchan lings is actually players/(coef * 2) but you get the idea.

Kor wrote:So the ling scaling coefficient (number of players online / coeff = number of lings)* got set to 4 in the config, and by default it is 6.

At some point someone with remote cranked up the number of changeling spawns for some reason.

*Formula for traitorchan lings is actually players/(coef * 2) but you get the idea.

wait does that formula mean on a 90 player highpop round there are 11 fucking lings? or 11 antags in total., Or did I do the math completely wrong.

Cobby wrote:They are not “side” antags then though :^)

Armhulen wrote: OR SOMETHING! Doesn't have to be crazy!

Remove ling until it is reworked. At least put it up to a vote, its a more broken mode than gang.

starmute wrote:Remove ling until it is reworked. At least put it up to a vote, its a more broken mode than gang.

1. no
2. gang is no longer the gold standard for a broken mode, that now goes to clock

PKPenguin321 wrote:

starmute wrote:Remove ling until it is reworked. At least put it up to a vote, its a more broken mode than gang.

1. no
2. gang is no longer the gold standard for a broken mode, that now goes to clock

. extremely correct

Who ever made it so lings can get abilities without having to attack and risk exposure is a dumbass. Old lings were a pain but at least they could unlock everything without once risking their identity.

Make lings need to absorb people to gain powers again, and every absorb giving them a random power instead of picking. And get rid of the fucking hivemind, lings should be hunting each other, not team antag.

Davidchan wrote:Who ever made it so lings can get abilities without having to attack and risk exposure is a dumbass. Old lings were a pain but at least they could unlock everything without once risking their identity.

Make lings need to absorb people to gain powers again, and every absorb giving them a random power instead of picking. And get rid of the fucking hivemind, lings should be hunting each other, not team antag.

Its rather funny, old lings were taken out because too many people complained about being taken out of the round. New lings are just as muderbonish.

Why are people whining about "dying too much" now that we have actual automated ghost roles?

Cobby wrote:stop adding baddies to the mix if you’re not going to touch primary antags who are scaled to be the sole antag of the round!!!

the bee is correct

Luke Cox wrote:Why are people whining about "dying too much" now that we have actual automated ghost roles?

I'm in the opposite camp. I think death is slowly rendered meaningless, if you gonna get back into the round anyway, free to griff and metagrudge and try to force shuttle call so you can start new round. Yeah, most won't, but one or two is enough.

Dying is fine. Getting 1HKO by something you couldn't possible counter? That's not fun. That's bad design. Changelings have an answer for everything in the game from damage, stuns, borgs, cuffs, and even death. And despite all their pocket, the only counter to them is 'bring more guys'.

Davidchan wrote:Dying is fine. Getting 1HKO by something you couldn't possible counter? That's not fun. That's bad design. Changelings have an answer for everything in the game from damage, stuns, borgs, cuffs, and even death. And despite all their pocket, the only counter to them is 'bring more guys'.

Definitely agree, which is why I think forcing them to specialize is the way to go. They need to have their toolkits limited, but they can't be railroaded into one strategy.

Davidchan wrote:Dying is fine. Getting 1HKO by something you couldn't possible counter? That's not fun. That's bad design. Changelings have an answer for everything in the game from damage, stuns, borgs, cuffs, and even death. And despite all their pocket, the only counter to them is 'bring more guys'.

Isn't that the entire point: Strong 1v1 but weak against groups? A ling gets 2/3 uses of fleshmend or adrenaline before it runs out of chems.

I don't think i've ever seen a changeling beat stunbaton spam.

Bluespace wrote:I don't think i've ever seen a changeling beat stunbaton spam.

*tentacles your baton*

Lumbermancer wrote:

Bluespace wrote:I don't think i've ever seen a changeling beat stunbaton spam.

*tentacles your baton*

Yes and to do that the ling has spend 2(?) of his dna points on the ability.

i read the first paragraph of the OP and thought yakumo finally went off the deep end. then i started reading the well thought out stuff and got bored. we should rework ling to be more stealth based instead of unstoppable murderbone machines. yes i know theyre not unstoppable but the only way to kill them is like this ever since the recent ling changes.

I just want to repeat that I really dislike ling.

The Clowns Pocket wrote:itt discussion rages about overhauling ling, nothing is done

I dont' know if you've noticed, but this is the entirety of all the coding subforums.

Any real discussion happens in our irc.

oranges wrote:

The Clowns Pocket wrote:itt discussion rages about overhauling ling, nothing is done

I dont' know if you've noticed, but this is the entirety of all the coding subforums.

Any real discussion happens in our irc.

ALLLLLLLLLLSO IT'S A FUUUUUUUUUUUUCKING FREEEEEEEEEEEZE?

Armhulen wrote:

oranges wrote:

The Clowns Pocket wrote:itt discussion rages about overhauling ling, nothing is done

I dont' know if you've noticed, but this is the entirety of all the coding subforums.

Any real discussion happens in our irc.

ALLLLLLLLLLSO IT'S A FUUUUUUUUUUUUCKING FREEEEEEEEEEEZE?

Then someone make a thread in the policy forums asking for traitorlings to be removed from rotation until it is reworked.

Also coders really should consider using the forums more often, it provides a nice documentation on a coders development process if they actually discuss it in a place where it can be preserved publicly instead of on an IRC that I am not even sure keeps logs.

BeeSting12 wrote:i read the first paragraph of the OP and thought yakumo finally went off the deep end.

It's actually just an elaborate reference to the remove kebab meme

I actually asked CitrusGender to change the round odds between Traitor and TraitorChan, since that's a config option the coders cannot interact with, and he was receptive to it. I'll see if he's done anything more about it.

EDIT:

oranges wrote:

The Clowns Pocket wrote:itt discussion rages about overhauling ling, nothing is done

I dont' know if you've noticed, but this is the entirety of all the coding subforums.

Any real discussion happens in our irc.

As a player I don't really have any desire to use #coderbus as most of the coders are cunts and would rather make fun of me for not being a coder / being who I am instead of actually take suggestions seriously. Most of the coders just work as a clique that doesn't care for actual player input. It's probably the reason why goofball has been able to get away with his shit for so long.

t. does not into coderbus

goof has a 29% merge rate, got gitbanned last year, and does not get along at all with several maintainers what are you even talking about

Yakumo_Chen wrote: As a player I don't really have any desire to use #coderbus as most of the coders are cunts and would rather make fun of me for not being a coder / being who I am instead of actually take suggestions seriously. Most of the coders just work as a clique that doesn't care for actual player input. It's probably the reason why goofball has been able to get away with his shit for so long.

This is the Shadowdimentio Syndrome, induced by either a lack of knowledge in coding and a complete unwillingness to learn one of the easier coding languages or a single bad experience on their first project which had a lot of time put in. Symptoms include cussing coders out at the bottom of your post, seeing cliques where there obviously isn't and How-can-he-get-away-with-this-ing goofball.

I guess my point here is that you're in the same group as deitus and shadowdimentio and that should be setting off some red flags. please stop this insane coder clique group theory. I don't feel great being put into the group that most coders are just bad people, it's really fucking rude to say. just try coding out sometime, you WILL lose projects to maintainers and it sucks but a lot more will get in since they're usually flexible on what they'd allow in the game. You will find that actually contributing to this game's future is a blast!

Armhulen wrote:

Yakumo_Chen wrote: As a player I don't really have any desire to use #coderbus as most of the coders are cunts and would rather make fun of me for not being a coder / being who I am instead of actually take suggestions seriously. Most of the coders just work as a clique that doesn't care for actual player input. It's probably the reason why goofball has been able to get away with his shit for so long.

This is the Shadowdimentio Syndrome, induced by either a lack of knowledge in coding and a complete unwillingness to learn one of the easier coding languages or a single bad experience on their first project which had a lot of time put in. Symptoms include cussing coders out at the bottom of your post, seeing cliques where there obviously isn't and How-can-he-get-away-with-this-ing goofball.

I guess my point here is that you're in the same group as deitus and shadowdimentio and that should be setting off some red flags. please stop this insane coder clique group theory. I don't feel great being put into the group that most coders are just bad people, it's really fucking rude to say. just try coding out sometime, you WILL lose projects to maintainers and it sucks but a lot more will get in since they're usually flexible on what they'd allow in the game. You will find that actually contributing to this game's future is a blast!

Viewing coders as a clique is primarily because of the lack of public logs of coding discussions. If you guys dont want to use the forums to discuss shit consider making the IRC logs public. It would put the nail in the coffin of people thinking the coderbus is a super secret club as you could just point to the IRC logs whenever someone asks about something.

The "coders are a clique" mentality comes from two things: coders not communicating with the general playerbase, and a substantial number of coders hardly ever playing the game. I don't think anyone reasonable lumps all coders into the "clique", but there's no denying that too many of them are out of touch.

Dr_bee wrote:

Armhulen wrote:

Yakumo_Chen wrote: As a player I don't really have any desire to use #coderbus as most of the coders are cunts and would rather make fun of me for not being a coder / being who I am instead of actually take suggestions seriously. Most of the coders just work as a clique that doesn't care for actual player input. It's probably the reason why goofball has been able to get away with his shit for so long.

This is the Shadowdimentio Syndrome, induced by either a lack of knowledge in coding and a complete unwillingness to learn one of the easier coding languages or a single bad experience on their first project which had a lot of time put in. Symptoms include cussing coders out at the bottom of your post, seeing cliques where there obviously isn't and How-can-he-get-away-with-this-ing goofball.

I guess my point here is that you're in the same group as deitus and shadowdimentio and that should be setting off some red flags. please stop this insane coder clique group theory. I don't feel great being put into the group that most coders are just bad people, it's really fucking rude to say. just try coding out sometime, you WILL lose projects to maintainers and it sucks but a lot more will get in since they're usually flexible on what they'd allow in the game. You will find that actually contributing to this game's future is a blast!

Viewing coders as a clique is primarily because of the lack of public logs of coding discussions. If you guys dont want to use the forums to discuss shit consider making the IRC logs public. It would put the nail in the coffin of people thinking the coderbus is a super secret club as you could just point to the IRC logs whenever someone asks about something.

There are public logs it's called the specific PR on github.

The discussion to make the pr itself is usually not a discussion at all, the person just does it.

If you want coderbus logged so badly just join it and afk so you can read back through it. Its a public IRC. I bet you could even make a bot do it for you.

Armhulen wrote:

Cobby wrote:stop adding baddies to the mix if you’re not going to touch primary antags who are scaled to be the sole antag of the round!!!

ideally we'd have a gamemode that mixes a bunch of side antags roundstart as the game mode instead of traitor and changeling, so nuke ops can stay away from traitors revolvering the cap and nuking immediately

a mode where it's mixed and finding one antag but still being unable to guess what else there is sounds fucking amazing

i'd say throw traitor or whatever in there as well, but with a lower chance/only one or two

Side Antag mode is already happening as far as I understand, which will be a welcome addition

I'm making my baggie of side antags for that game mode.

I agree with this thread. Go away Lings no one likes you. TELL ME 1 PERSON (who actually plays) that likes ling in its current state. Kevinz doesn't play!

Shadowflame909 wrote:I agree with this thread. Go away Lings no one likes you. TELL ME 1 PERSON (who actually plays) that likes ling in its current state. Kevinz doesn't play!

He plays as Skylar fairly often

Yakumo_Chen wrote:some shit

Luke Cox wrote:

Shadowflame909 wrote:I agree with this thread. Go away Lings no one likes you. TELL ME 1 PERSON (who actually plays) that likes ling in its current state. Kevinz doesn't play!

He plays as Skylar fairly often

Give me three coders that actually play. Also, kevinz rarely plays and when he does its as a security officer. He has never been in the position of the powerless.

Shadowflame909 wrote:I agree with this thread. Go away Lings no one likes you. TELL ME 1 PERSON (who actually plays) that likes ling in its current state. Kevinz doesn't play!

me t b h but i agree they could use improvement

Shadowflame909 wrote:

Luke Cox wrote:

Shadowflame909 wrote:I agree with this thread. Go away Lings no one likes you. TELL ME 1 PERSON (who actually plays) that likes ling in its current state. Kevinz doesn't play!

He plays as Skylar fairly often

Give me three coders that actually play. Also, kevinz rarely plays and when he does its as a security officer. He has never been in the position of the powerless.

PKPenguin

Kor

Dreamweaver

bonus in case you don't respect my answers: Oldman Robustin plays a lot, suprisingly

Of all the coders you could call out for not playing, Kevinz is one of the worst choices.

User Details for kevinz000 (Byond account)
Total Connections: 17795

I have been foiled again! But, I really don't like ling. I'd be glad if it got removed completely. But, I feel like things should be improved on and removal should be the last option!

Bluespace wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a changeling beat stun baton spam.

If they catch me off guard with adrenals, I usually just last resort the fuck out of them. and then I egg sac there body and steal there identity, leaving them gibbed and unrevivable. edit: and I only said kevinz because that was the obvious choice! Also, be in a job thats not security and lings are ascended shadowlings compared to traitors.

i don't play

To be fair: I actually don't see mekhi very often to be fair. I mean, he's one of my favorite jerks online but he mostly admins.

Armhulen wrote:
This is the Shadowdimentio Syndrome, induced by either a lack of knowledge in coding and a complete unwillingness to learn one of the easier coding languages or a single bad experience on their first project which had a lot of time put in. Symptoms include cussing coders out at the bottom of your post, seeing cliques where there obviously isn't and How-can-he-get-away-with-this-ing goofball.

I guess my point here is that you're in the same group as deitus and shadowdimentio and that should be setting off some red flags. please stop this insane coder clique group theory. I don't feel great being put into the group that most coders are just bad people, it's really fucking rude to say. just try coding out sometime, you WILL lose projects to maintainers and it sucks but a lot more will get in since they're usually flexible on what they'd allow in the game. You will find that actually contributing to this game's future is a blast!

Most of my bad experience just comes from coders shitposting everywhere and basically mocking me whenever I come on github/coderbus/whathaveyou whenever I have anything to say. Oranges and Questinus are good examples of this.

I'm not going to derail an entire thread, and I know my attitude isn't the best but when I make stuff like bug reports and have them littered with spam posts of crying babies for no real reason / because I disagree with an opinion it's not really helping my perception. There's also the fact a lot of maintainers (who actually merge stuff) don't or rarely play and have a big amount of say over stuff like balance regardless.

Anyway I'm happy with the changeling changes going on so far.

Yakumo_Chen wrote:

Armhulen wrote:
This is the Shadowdimentio Syndrome, induced by either a lack of knowledge in coding and a complete unwillingness to learn one of the easier coding languages or a single bad experience on their first project which had a lot of time put in. Symptoms include cussing coders out at the bottom of your post, seeing cliques where there obviously isn't and How-can-he-get-away-with-this-ing goofball.

I guess my point here is that you're in the same group as deitus and shadowdimentio and that should be setting off some red flags. please stop this insane coder clique group theory. I don't feel great being put into the group that most coders are just bad people, it's really fucking rude to say. just try coding out sometime, you WILL lose projects to maintainers and it sucks but a lot more will get in since they're usually flexible on what they'd allow in the game. You will find that actually contributing to this game's future is a blast!

Most of my bad experience just comes from coders shitposting everywhere and basically mocking me whenever I come on github/coderbus/whathaveyou whenever I have anything to say. Oranges and Questinus are good examples of this.

I'm not going to derail an entire thread, and I know my attitude isn't the best but when I make stuff like bug reports and have them littered with spam posts of crying babies for no real reason / because I disagree with an opinion it's not really helping my perception. There's also the fact a lot of maintainers (who actually merge stuff) don't or rarely play and have a big amount of say over stuff like balance regardless.

Anyway I'm happy with the changeling changes going on so far.

As someone who regularly reads the github, constant shitposting by certain coders does not improve my opinion of them.

The problem with shitposting, is you have to be anonymous to do it for long, or else people just link your name to the fact you are being an asshole and stop liking you or taking you seriously.

It doesnt matter how talented a coder the shitposter is, if they act like an asshole on github even in jest, people wont want to contribute, even via bug reporting and testing.

Make the Lesser Form cost more like atleast 20 chem points.

I'd like to go into specifics, but I don't want powergamers to know the specific reason why I say this.

One thing I can say is that 5 chem points out of 75 chem points to become a monkey is only balanced if that's the only ability, but a changeling can get more than one ability. Those extra abilities can also still be used in lesser form so it's not really balanced with 5 fucking chem points even if you lose all your fancy gear.

just how many secret monkey techniques are there