Limit Permabans to Yearbans

Tunder · Post by **Tunder** » Thu May 28, 2015 10:19 am #91255

Because, honestly, if someone you banned a year ago is still an active member of the community, they're worth keeping around and giving another chance.

And a lot can happen in a year, people can learn from their mistakes given a lot of time, which a year more than adequately represents.

It's 1/100th of a lifespan for the lucky, but usually less.

Life is too short for saltiness over a 2d spessmen simulator, and questionable permabans create a metric shit ton of drama, grievously injuring the legitimacy of the administration.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

This is an administration issue, I believe.

Tunder · Post by **Tunder** » Thu May 28, 2015 10:41 am #91263

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:This is an administration issue, I believe.

It's an idea. I posted it to Ideas. It doesn't break any of the subforum rules.

Kindly don't derail.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu May 28, 2015 11:06 am #91269

Does that mean that 2beard and terbs could come back if they wait a year?

Tunder · Post by **Tunder** » Thu May 28, 2015 11:16 am #91270

DemonFiren wrote:Does that mean that 2beard and terbs could come back if they wait a year?

Ideally it would be retroactively effective.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu May 28, 2015 11:41 am #91272

In that case: Hell no.

Tunder · Post by **Tunder** » Thu May 28, 2015 11:46 am #91275

DemonFiren wrote:In that case: Hell no.

I legitimately don't remember ever playing with you, and I doubt you played much with either of them. They had their moments, but both were robust, capable, useful players much more than they were bored shitters, a state with which anyone who has been here for a significant amount of time is familiar, and would not hold against anyone else.

2beard is a forum meme than he ever was a threat to server fun, and I played with Terbs for years, long enough to know that he's a decent player with some mediocre greytiding under his belt.

Nobody deserves permabanning, when humans have the ability to change and improve as they do.

Not-Dorsidarf · Thu May 28, 2015 1:48 pm

BeardBeard and terbs' bans aren't just permabans, they're literally on bans.txt or something.
And this should be in Policy Discussion, unless you want to actually remove permabans from the code.

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Thu May 28, 2015 3:35 pm #91304

yes, this should be in policy discussion.

sadly i dont have ABSOLUTE DOMINION over the coding subforums for some reason so somebody else has to move this.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Thu May 28, 2015 4:45 pm #91318

Ehhhhhh

This is a bad idea, Beard beard was toxic, and there are a few others who burned their chances already.

TechnoAlchemist · Thu May 28, 2015 5:07 pm

There are some people who aren't active in the community and would come back to grief after the year just because.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Thu May 28, 2015 5:19 pm #91333

People dont change so easily. If you honestly think a year of hanging around the forums makes you a better person and warrants an unban, then you are delusional.

As i understand it, there already is a policy that lets you appeal permabans after a year, so i do not see the need for this. If you get permad, play on other servers, come back in a year with a recommendation and you will probably get an unban.

Tunder · Post by **Tunder** » Thu May 28, 2015 8:18 pm #91367

TechnoAlchemist wrote:There are some people who aren't active in the community and would come back to grief after the year just because.

I'm not saying all records should be expunged, and obviously if they come back shit they should be shipped off again.

But assuming that many people, considering how many permabans have been dished out over the years, are gonna come back shit is unfair. There have been plenty heavily argued permabans that stuck, and equating questionable bans with clear cut cases of metafriend griffing or other such plainly unacceptable behavior is unfair to the person being banned for, say, spraypainting a swastika on a server where erotic role play is a morally acceptable action.

Post by **Vekter** » Thu May 28, 2015 8:41 pm #91379

We currently let players appeal their bans once a year. I think the system is fine as it is.

If we implement this I would push very hard for it to not be retroactive. We have many folks that we have made an active choice to remove from the community (namely 2beard, Tonto and Terbs) that have proven they have nothing to offer us and are purely detrimental (and in one case, an actual danger) to our community.

In short, please god no why

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Thu May 28, 2015 8:44 pm #91382

I think the idea is that permabans, barring contriving circumstances, are very rarely actually permanent. Rather, they're barriers of entry to the game that force people to take a half year - a year off, at least, before making a new appeal to try and get back in. This system means that we only get people who actually wish to make strides to improve their gamestyle back here, and those people typically wind up under closely-watched probation or whatever.

Making them auto-expire after a year means that the barrier to re-entry is much much lower (time), meaning the quality of the re-entrants will be lower, and there would be no permanent filtration system for 'bad' players. Not sure how appealing that sounds.

Not-Dorsidarf · Thu May 28, 2015 9:01 pm

Also it's funny whenever someone appeals a permaban from 2012 or whatever for killing a clown on the shuttle with a long list of woe about how they've changed their ways and they just get told "You were only permabanned for logging before we could ask you why you dunked the clown"

QuartzCrystal · Thu May 28, 2015 10:41 pm

This idea is a bad one.

Post by **oranges** » Fri May 29, 2015 2:25 am #91458

Like sticky is alway's saying there's no obligation to let people play here

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Fri May 29, 2015 7:03 pm #91616

Tunder wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:In that case: Hell no.
I legitimately don't remember ever playing with you, and I doubt you played much with either of them. They had their moments, but both were robust, capable, useful players much more than they were bored shitters, a state with which anyone who has been here for a significant amount of time is familiar, and would not hold against anyone else.

Oh look this meme again.

Who the fuck are you?
I too can do this.

Stickymayhem · Post by **Stickymayhem** » Fri May 29, 2015 7:44 pm #91624

Tunder wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:In that case: Hell no.

I legitimately don't remember ever playing with you, and I doubt you played much with either of them. They had their moments, but both were robust, capable, useful players much more than they were bored shitters, a state with which anyone who has been here for a significant amount of time is familiar, and would not hold against anyone else.

2beard is a forum meme than he ever was a threat to server fun, and I played with Terbs for years, long enough to know that he's a decent player with some mediocre greytiding under his belt.

Nobody deserves permabanning, when humans have the ability to change and improve as they do.

Tunder can you stop being a pain in the ass with this I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND I'M SUPER POPULAR AND KNOW EVERYONE SO YOU MUST BE IRRELEVANT thing.

You've been doing it everywhere and it's really fucking boring.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Fri May 29, 2015 7:57 pm #91627

I just want to say I got a warning for pretty much saying what you said but in a less PC way.

Thanks moderators!

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Fri May 29, 2015 8:11 pm #91633

Shit niggly I was about to type up a big ol' thing but looks like I already got beaten to it. I'll just quote.

Stickymayhem wrote:Tunder can you stop being a pain in the ass with this I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND I'M SUPER POPULAR AND KNOW EVERYONE SO YOU MUST BE IRRELEVANT thing.

You've been doing it everywhere and it's really fucking boring.

Also literally who, never saw him before his being an admin, some standard of experience or time played on /tg/ before adminship would be nice.

Literally who, I never saw him before he was an admin, which makes me worried that he didn't spend much time immersed in the server/community culture before being given power over regular players.

Also literally who, he wasn't a player for very long if at all before being made admin, which I feel has detracted from his ability to administrate very well.

Another literally who, never saw him before he was admin and I've been here a long time.

Terbs is a long-time and valuable member of this community with a lot of seasoning, and one of the most robust players we still have amidst the sever brain drain and the floods of newbs we've been getting.

We get it, you want to hang with your shitty metafriends.

Post by **Vekter** » Fri May 29, 2015 8:59 pm #91652

ColonicAcid wrote:I just want to say I got a warning for pretty much saying what you said but in a less PC way.

Thanks moderators!

Oh wow its almost like I warned Sticky too for ad hominem attacks.

Too bad Sticky doesn't have three previous warnings for being a dick in Policy Discussion.

Post by **oranges** » Fri May 29, 2015 9:55 pm #91668

Hah, oh my god did you actually warn people for that?

Next you'll be banning people for correcting people of wrong opinions because people need safe spaces to express themselves right?

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Fri May 29, 2015 10:53 pm #91684

So I guess we can't call people out on their bullshit in fear of reprisal?

Alright okay Vekter I see how it is. We're throwing away the big boy toys and becoming men huh?

Loonikus · Post by **Loonikus** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:08 am #91704

Might as well. Permabans are a joke, the majority of them are lifted with a stern but loving "don't do that again."

These days it seems bans are either 5-30 minutes or permabans. Things like month bans should be more common and permabans should be much rarer but much more serious.

LA MAYONESA · Post by **LA MAYONESA** » Sat May 30, 2015 12:13 am #91706

i agree!

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat May 30, 2015 2:27 am #91731

Loonikus wrote:Might as well. Permabans are a joke, the majority of them are lifted with a stern but loving "don't do that again."

These days it seems bans are either 5-30 minutes or permabans. Things like month bans should be more common and permabans should be much rarer but much more serious.

Even if permabans are a joke, its better to have them actually make an effort to come here and act like they know they fucked up rather than just have the ban auto-expire and they come back thinking "hur hur time to fuck around some more."

I said this somewhere else, its literally an idiot filter. If you can't stop acting like a screaming child for 5 seconds then theres no point in lifting bans.

Loonikus · Post by **Loonikus** » Sat May 30, 2015 3:37 am #91746

Fair enough, but in that case can we really call them permabans if theres no intention for them to be permanent? I know at this point its just semantics but it could be seen as misleading.

mikecari · Post by **mikecari** » Sat May 30, 2015 6:00 am #91772

Personally don't agree with this, and look at my rank ayy lmao. The whole point of it being permanent is to get the person to appeal it rather than just sit by the sidelines for a year and go back to doing the same thing. Essentially it forces you to change your personality, whether you like it or not. Granted, I don't think BeardBeard even plays SS13 anymore, but there's always the chance he could come back, and that's not something anyone wants.

Shadowlight213 · Sat May 30, 2015 5:57 pm

Even if this goes through, for some insane reason, it won't have any affect on beardbeard or terbs. They are both on the blacklist, not just a permaban. Changing perma policy is not going to affect that.

Tunder · Post by **Tunder** » Sat May 30, 2015 8:53 pm #91891

palpatine213 wrote:Even if this goes through, for some insane reason, it won't have any affect on beardbeard or terbs. They are both on the blacklist, not just a permaban. Changing perma policy is not going to affect that.

But it will help in the future, and hopefully prevent future blacklistings by limiting saltiness from banned players who feel they've been unfairly treated.

Void Slayer · Post by **Void Slayer** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:27 am #92080

Here is how you get off a perma ban right now, as far as I understand it:

1. Don't do something super fucking creepy, no we shouldn't unban for that.

1.a.Or do not meta communicate.

2. Go play on another server and don't be shit. Follow their rules.

3. Make a polite appeal acknowledging you will follow the rules here.

Anyone who can not abide by these three things really shouldn't be playing here.

Maybe 1.a. can be changed as long as they meet 2 and 3.

Perma bans are on until you prove you can be trusted. Week+ bans are actual punishment.

mosquitoman · Post by **mosquitoman** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:25 am #92316

why is this even an issue? can people really not just make a new account and refresh ip? is this an unknown and forgotten skill in 2015?

peoplearestrange · Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:11 pm

mosquitoman wrote:why is this even an issue? can people really not just make a new account and refresh ip? is this an unknown and forgotten skill in 2015?

If your implying people should ban evade, thats not particularly great advice.

Plus we have other ways of spotting similar users, plus niknakflak's hat of super sleuthing, so when you get caught your just going to make it more unlikely for you to ever have your appeal accepted.

Post by **oranges** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:04 am #92492

then you just evade again lel

ABearInTheWoods · Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:17 pm

ColonicAcid wrote:I just want to say I got a warning for pretty much saying what you said but in a less PC way.

Thanks moderators!

Not anymore you don't.

Screemonster · Post by **Screemonster** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:56 am #96159

Loonikus wrote:Fair enough, but in that case can we really call them permabans if theres no intention for them to be permanent? I know at this point its just semantics but it could be seen as misleading.

Changing "ban length: permanent" to "ban length: indefinite" would technically be more accurate, but eh.

John_Oxford · Post by **John_Oxford** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:39 pm #96248

Emphasis on the phrase "/DIRTY FUCKING CRIMINALS/"
Not everyone is a "/DIRTY FUCKING CRIMINAL/"
Only "/DIRTY FUCKING CRIMINALS/" ban evade.

TheNightingale · Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:19 pm

John_Oxford wrote:Not everyone is a "/DIRTY FUCKING CRIMINAL/"

Are you sure?
Are you really sure?

peoplearestrange · Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:45 pm

OK this is way off topic, the original things have been discussed and its turning into yet another stupid argument.
Closing.