It's currently to easy to call the shuttle.

RocKeD · Post by **RocKeD** » Sat May 02, 2015 6:23 am #85257

Hello, currently I believe the shuttle is to easy to call. It seems most rounds end a lot earlier than they really need to. This might be because something bad happened like an explosion and then people freak out and call the shuttle, or it could be that the clown has all access and hes decided to call the shuttle early. My idea to solve these problems plus many more is that the number of id's required to call the shuttle should be increased by 1 or 2 meaning that two or three command id's have to be put in the machine before the shuttle may be called. This will have more benefits for the station as people must work together if a threat is at hand to get the shuttle called, no more one man army style (unless you have two or three command id's). Another benefit is that rounds will tend to last longer as a result of increased teamwork engineering for example will have more importance, it seems that is it rare nowadays to see the station ACTUALLY get repaired, I can't remember the last time I saw a whole room repaired machines and all. The list goes on but tell me what you guys think of this idea I believe it is a great one, although I'm not the only person playing Space Station 13.

TL;DR: Increase required id's to call shuttle to at least two maybe three. This increases quality of play overall.

Konork · Post by **Konork** » Sat May 02, 2015 6:35 am #85259

The biggest problem with trying to repair the station is that nobody can be assed to do it and it's always easier to just call the shuttle. Trying to change the second won't change the first, and people will still be calling the shuttle because it'll still be easier, especially if it's someone with all access who called the shuttle because they can just go make a second, third, or even tenth ID anyway.

RocKeD · Post by **RocKeD** » Sat May 02, 2015 6:52 am #85260

That is part of what I am trying to solve, people just calling the shuttle because it's to easy, this should most definitely not be the case. One way to solve the creating more id's problem, is that the coder's could make a list of original id's and any fake or created id's that are not on this list may not call the shuttle.
Edit: There is another that I can think of, this would require two id's and machines.The id's have to be inserted into two separate machines and both call the shuttle for the signal to actually be sent.

Konork · Post by **Konork** » Sat May 02, 2015 6:55 am #85261

RocKeD wrote:That is part of what I am trying to solve, people just calling the shuttle because it's to easy, this should most definitely not be the case. One way to solve the creating more id's problem, is that the coder's could make a list of original id's and any fake or created id's that are not on this list may not call the shuttle.

Which means that if all the original IDs get lost, or if the original owners get demoted for whatever reason, everyone is fucked.

RocKeD · Post by **RocKeD** » Sat May 02, 2015 7:00 am #85263

How often does that actually happen, perhaps the captain's id and spare may have the right to create, give or modify current id's for "shuttle access". This is what I can come up with, I would like to hear more thoughts on this idea.
Edit: If all id's were to be lost period, you would be fucked either way.

srifenbyxp · Post by **srifenbyxp** » Sat May 02, 2015 7:02 am #85264

RocKeD wrote:TL;DR: Increase required id's to call shuttle to at least two maybe three. This increases quality of play overall.

Very terrible ideal and this is already implemented towards red alert status which requires 2 ID swipes at different locations which hastens shuttle arrival time which we're all aware of. Even if the shuttle is called it can easily be recalled, some one with all access ID or the clearance to can always make more ID's to call the shuttle in your case. In cases like in Cult, Fluke Ops, or any other team base antag the increased number of IDs needed to call the shuttle will screw over the crew. Not to mention when there's a low pop server going on and some one is getting their murder dick on.

............._@@@__
.... ___//___?____\_________
..../-o-GRAMMAR-POLICE----@}
.....`==={@}=====+===={@}----

Also your grammar is bad, it's too not to.

RocKeD · Post by **RocKeD** » Sat May 02, 2015 7:10 am #85266

We have to look at the big picture here, if you read a previous post I propose a solution to the multiple id's. There are solutions and checks that can be put in the code to solve the small issues like low pop. For example: scalable id requirements!

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Sat May 02, 2015 7:10 am #85267

RocKeD wrote:How often does that actually happen, perhaps the captain's id and spare may have the right to create, give or modify current id's for "shuttle access". This is what I can come up with, I would like to hear more thoughts on this idea.

Pretty dumb idea, lots of situations wherein only 1 ID is in position to call the shuttle

Tokiko2 · Post by **Tokiko2** » Sat May 02, 2015 7:25 am #85269

How would you call the shuttle in lowpop then?

RocKeD · Post by **RocKeD** » Sat May 02, 2015 7:34 am #85271

Tokiko2 wrote:How would you call the shuttle in lowpop then?

C'mon guys read my replies please.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sat May 02, 2015 11:10 am #85288

This is a non issue.

The shuttle is easy to call, and it's just as easy to recall.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat May 02, 2015 2:15 pm #85300

While I think the presented solution is not a good one, Rocked does nonetheless present a true problem in that its often much easier to just call the evac shuttle rather than attempt to fix any damage to the station.

From personal experience damage to the station itself is one of the easiest ways of getting the shuttle called, and yet amusingly its one of the only ways to get the shuttle called as even power outages and other mass ailments can see resistance from the crew in evacuating at times.

Personally I think the best way to approach this is to give Engineering some slightly better tools that work to temporally fix damaged areas to make repairs more smoother, I think if we were to give Engineering a nice supply of Metal Foam grenades then this would result in a positive experience. It would also be far less drastic and harder to do.

Another solution is to encourage admins to more regularly send in the Emergency Response Team to help fix the station in some situations, Ikkarus's PR will allow admins to send in 'light' ERT teams that focuses very much on repair than anything else.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat May 02, 2015 3:18 pm #85304

Honestly the hardest part about filling breaches is atmos. Shit will be frozen and airless for a while even dumping air cans into it.
Metal Foam grenades make repairs more difficult for me, or at least just more tedious, but works for sealing off an area you can't fix right away.

Oldman Robustin · Sat May 02, 2015 6:15 pm

No. Just No.

Short Answer: No

Long Answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

RocKeD · Post by **RocKeD** » Sat May 02, 2015 7:48 pm #85350

I am most definitely open to other solutions the main goal I'm trying to achieve here is people rather than calling the shuttle, work together more to get shit done. I'm just tired of short rounds really for no reason, ex: me being a virologist and finally creating this amazing healing virus and not 5 minutes later the shuttle is called because of something stupid that can be fixed. I like what Steelpoint said, maybe we need to make some other changes that encourages more teamplay and station repair/maintenance. What about notifications to station engineers when a hole gets blown in the station? Example: "A hull breach was detected in medbay at loc (insert loc here)".

Edit:

Oldman Robustin wrote:No. Just No.
Short Answer: No
Long Answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Care to elaborate?

Sat May 02, 2015 10:36 pm

It's dangerous to even potentially put the station in a situation where it can't call the shuttle at all for hopefully obvious reasons. Oldling had this problem fairly frequently for example.

RocKeD · Post by **RocKeD** » Sat May 02, 2015 10:56 pm #85391

MisterPerson wrote:It's dangerous to even potentially put the station in a situation where it can't call the shuttle at all for hopefully obvious reasons. Oldling had this problem fairly frequently for example.

This wouldn't put the station in a situation where it couldn't call the shuttle. It would just make it harder which is the goal. Lets say there is a revolution or even just a changeling round, no matter which side wins they will have multiple id's to call the shuttle with. The changeling can easily obtain multiple id's, and this prevents them for example completing one objective then calling the shuttle 15 minutes in, they now have to find a second or third id to get the shuttle called and get the round ended. This would actually increase teamwork in revolution as well, as they have to cooperate to find other id's.
I am open to other suggestion's, if you check out a previous post I mentioned engineer notifications which would be amazing to have in game.

Akkryls · Post by **Akkryls** » Sat May 02, 2015 11:04 pm #85392

RocKeD wrote:
MisterPerson wrote:It's dangerous to even potentially put the station in a situation where it can't call the shuttle at all for hopefully obvious reasons. Oldling had this problem fairly frequently for example.
This wouldn't put the station in a situation where it couldn't call the shuttle. It would just make it harder which is the goal. Lets say there is a revolution or even just a changeling round, no matter which side wins they will have multiple id's to call the shuttle with. The changeling can easily obtain multiple id's, and this prevents them for example completing one objective then calling the shuttle 15 minutes in, they now have to find a second or third id to get the shuttle called and get the round ended. This would actually increase teamwork in revolution as well, as they have to cooperate to find other id's.

Revolution doesn't need a shuttle though. The shuttle can be called, but it literally just sits there and never leaves.
All this is doing is making the game harder for no real reason. Rounds go on for long enough as it is because the heads either don't want to call the shuttle (WE CAN FIX THIS), one head decides to constantly recall the shuttle (RECALL IT, WE CAN FIX THIS), all heads are dead, or the bridge is completely uninhabitable and any surviving heads don't have access to a space suit / fire suit / tools to access the bridge.

Calling the shuttle is an integral part of ending the round, moving onto the next round and getting people back into the game. Making it harder adds nothing of value to the game.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sat May 02, 2015 11:31 pm #85400

People call the shuttle when the station gets bombed to shit because it's extremely unfun for 95% of the crew.

There are 4 people in engineering who have hardsuits, who are responsible for fixing the station.
Then most rounds you have 50+ people who will can't access half the station because there's big ass holes everywhere that will kill them if they get close.

Remie Richards · Sun May 03, 2015 12:25 am

Maybe to call the shuttle, the person calling has to remember the emergency number.
Which is obviously 0118 999 881 999 119 7253.

hard enough?

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun May 03, 2015 2:59 pm #85508

Saegrimr wrote:Honestly the hardest part about filling breaches is atmos. Shit will be frozen and airless for a while even dumping air cans into it.
Metal Foam grenades make repairs more difficult for me, or at least just more tedious, but works for sealing off an area you can't fix right away.

Maybe we should try turning LINDA's fastmos mode on again

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sun May 03, 2015 3:09 pm #85509

Saegrimr wrote:Honestly the hardest part about filling breaches is atmos. Shit will be frozen and airless for a while even dumping air cans into it.

That's why the atmos department exist, to solve such problems. Make air in distro warmer and its easier to warm up and pressurize airless and cold rooms.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun May 03, 2015 3:27 pm #85513

Scott wrote:That's why the atmos department exist, to solve such problems. Make air in distro warmer and its easier to warm up and pressurize airless and cold rooms.

Atmos techs are pretty good at that already.

Actionb · Post by **Actionb** » Tue May 05, 2015 9:03 am #85832

As a player who pretty much lives in engineering, I share your pain about the lack of WE CAN FIX THIS SHIT attitude amongst most players. Some world-ending catastrophic bombing á la Cuban Laharl aside, fixing a breach takes like a few minutes, plus some extra to make the area survivable again - no big deal.
The problem is... out of the ~60 players on the server, about two and that bored engiborg can be arsed to try to repair the damage. Why? Because repairing stuff is pointless when the shuttle is already coming/about to be called. That kinda creates a vicious cycle for engineers:
-> there's little point to playing engineer since, usually, you have little to do
-> few competent engineers on board if any at all
-> nobody is available to repair damage
-> shuttle is being called
-> repairs would be futile at this point
-> there's little point to playing engineer since, usually, you have little to do

Sticky's marathon rounds have shown that people can still have fun if they stay around in dire situations (admittedly under heavy admin moderation). Never had more fun playing as engi/drone. You were the ones keeping the station together. Nobody probably acknowledged your work, but who cares - you know without you half the station would be an inhabitable wasteland at this point. This is the rewarding feeling that engineers want and need, but rarely get, because... shuttle is always there.

Sadly, this is not a problem with the shuttle being too easy to call, but with the players' mindset. They want fast rounds, they want action, they don't want to die. If there's no incentive for people to endure sticky situations, nobody can blame them for wanting to GTFO. I like rounds with epic levels of destruction - makes making it out alive at the end all the sweeter - but that's just me... the next guy probably just wants to get another stab at being antag asap.

Wanted to rant some more, but I forgot stuff so...blergh.

tldr: The problem isn't the shuttle, it's the players. Can't fix that easily.

Oldman Robustin · Tue May 05, 2015 9:20 am

Rounds go on far too long MUCH MORE than they are cut too short.

Sometimes even if WE CAN FIX THIS, its still just a better round to call the shuttle and enjoy the slight thrill of evacuating a mangled station than repairing it all and spending an additional hour on station while most of the crew goes braindead because a xenobiologist, botanist, and HoP haven't finished their little pet projects and scream the moment anyone even mentions the possibility of leaving.

If it really bothers you that much, play captain and keep the round going yourself. Maybe if you played a role with responsibility, something that can be a burden, you'd start to appreciate the need for earlier shuttle calls.

Akkryls · Post by **Akkryls** » Tue May 05, 2015 11:41 am #85851

Actionb wrote: tldr: The problem isn't the shuttle, it's the players. Can't fix that easily.

Very easy fix for this.
You move to a server which is more in line with what you want from the player base.

I'm not being all like "HUR, GO BACK TO BAY" or anything, but if you have a problem with how people play on the server, wouldn't it be wiser to swap to a different server than trying to change the fundamental way our server plays out?

AdenAbrafo · Post by **AdenAbrafo** » Tue May 05, 2015 1:20 pm #85863

what is the reward in enduring and surviving for a long period of time? you're talking about epic levels of destruction but that really only happens when buttons are pressed, after a certain point the round grows stagnate

tl;dr you want more out of ss13 than is possible
interestingly enough that is the reason why the game has become so casual

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Tue May 05, 2015 4:50 pm #85892

Now I gotta ask, since my slang is potentially out of date, but fuck do you mean by 'casual'?

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Tue May 05, 2015 5:18 pm #85901

WECAWLL! WECAWLL!

fuck that we're at sub-70% station integ we're outski amigo

(i wish AIs or engineers could view total station integrity)

EndgamerAzari · Tue May 05, 2015 5:46 pm

One of the most common themes I see is the "we can fix this!" crowd not understanding the sheer extent of the damage. Like, it's easy to say "oh, that's nothing" when the singularity seemed to wander away from the station from your perspective; in reality, all of science is gone and most of medbay is in a vacuum.

Arete · Post by **Arete** » Tue May 05, 2015 7:57 pm #85944

Akkryls wrote:
Actionb wrote: tldr: The problem isn't the shuttle, it's the players. Can't fix that easily.
Very easy fix for this.
You move to a server which is more in line with what you want from the player base.

I'm not being all like "HUR, GO BACK TO BAY" or anything, but if you have a problem with how people play on the server, wouldn't it be wiser to swap to a different server than trying to change the fundamental way our server plays out?

This only makes sense if the majority of the playerbase prefers the way this issue is currently handled. If the code and policy are such that a small minority of the players are making things somewhat less enjoyable for everyone else, then fixing that is strictly an improvement to the server.

RocKeD · Post by **RocKeD** » Thu May 07, 2015 5:50 am #86390

EndgamerAzari wrote:One of the most common themes I see is the "we can fix this!" crowd not understanding the sheer extent of the damage. Like, it's easy to say "oh, that's nothing" when the singularity seemed to wander away from the station from your perspective; in reality, all of science is gone and most of medbay is in a vacuum.

I don't believe that.. I'm not saying when the singularity is loose that we should try to fix the station, at that point all hope is lost. What I'm saying is that when someone sets off a huge fire or an explosion goes off or meteors strike, people rely way to much on the shuttle to solve their problem and just end the round and start fresh. If the station gets to a point such as you're describing then most people on the station would already be in agreement that the shuttle needs to be called. How many rounds have you seen where at the end you see station integrity over 98% and no real reason to end?

Edit: I have made a new topic that may help out with players not doing or knowing the things that they should do: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3564

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Tue May 12, 2015 6:13 am #87564

RocKeD wrote:
EndgamerAzari wrote:One of the most common themes I see is the "we can fix this!" crowd not understanding the sheer extent of the damage. Like, it's easy to say "oh, that's nothing" when the singularity seemed to wander away from the station from your perspective; in reality, all of science is gone and most of medbay is in a vacuum.
I don't believe that.. I'm not saying when the singularity is loose that we should try to fix the station, at that point all hope is lost. What I'm saying is that when someone sets off a huge fire or an explosion goes off or meteors strike, people rely way to much on the shuttle to solve their problem and just end the round and start fresh. If the station gets to a point such as you're describing then most people on the station would already be in agreement that the shuttle needs to be called. How many rounds have you seen where at the end you see station integrity over 98% and no real reason to end?

Edit: I have made a new topic that may help out with players not doing or knowing the things that they should do: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3564

This is true, but less-so of late. I recall a several months ago complaining that literally every round would be 20 minutes elapse -> someone dies/stubs their toe/etc. -> shuttle call asap for antag -> repeat all day. This doesn't happen as much currently (it's more like nothing is happening/I'm bored that gets the shuttle called now), I'm not sure why the change, though.

Regardless, repairing the station round-after-round with a gun up against your head as engineering isn't fun either. Tools beyond suck, it takes time, piping is Hitler to fix a large portion, walling takes a crapton of time, gotta shuttle parts from engineering constantly, etc. Forcing the crew to stick around when things are shit would be shit. I recall many rounds as CE, as the only member of engineering with 50+ people, throwing my hands up and bailing from the station.

For instance, one time toxins exploded ALONG with the test lab (HOW), that I briefly patched and locked up. Then, of course someone was running around maintenance cutting all the wires that security failed to apprehend for fucking ever. Meanwhile, I ran around like a madman reconnecting cables as fast as he could cut them before he got bored after 15 minutes. In that time, someone emagged all of engineering, and blew up part of telecomms (that I had to patch together with everything else breaking in the meanwhile), wherein, upon arriving, I barely prevented singuloth from escaping. I finally fixed up engineering, then I hear that the bridge was emagged, along with part of the brig, and that the armory and perma both needed repairs, 'top priority' they say. Then, of course, a ling CMO tries to kill me in the middle of ravaged medbay where I ventured to get some goddamn medical supplies (I took some toxic damage from singuloth, and shit was getting retarded so I figured it was a good idea to be prepared) that I batonned to death while decrying my PTSD-inducing day (I JUST. WANTED. SOME. FUCKING. MEDICAL. SUPPLIES.). The last straw was someone setting off explosives in escape and bridge after I had finally fixed the permabrig/armory. There was a bunch of other fuckery that round and holy fuck. I just lost it, in real life and in the game and tried to outright space myself, only failing by being restrained by the Captain. Of course, that round the crew and Captain were saying 'WE CAN FIX IT' or whatever rhetoric, while lifting not a single finger themselves.

Believe me, even with an actual engineering team, it isn't much better. Don't make it harder to call the shuttle. Sometimes, the station needs a reset - engineering isn't equipped to repair massive, or even moderate hull damage, only light and superficial damage. Anything more will be just a shell, at most.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Tue May 12, 2015 9:37 am #87587

And people want to increase the amount of damage a bomb can do.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Tue May 12, 2015 9:43 am #87588

Mostly because the effect of said bombs got nerfed big time.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Tue May 12, 2015 1:30 pm #87618

Scones wrote:WECAWLL! WECAWLL!

fuck that we're at sub-70% station integ we're outski amigo

(i wish AIs or engineers could view total station integrity)

I wanted to grant this wish, by adding integrity data to the station alerts consoles on Engineering and the Bridge, as well as the AI's built in alerts interface.
I like the idea, but it could possibly be a performance issue to be calculated more than a few times in a round:

Code: Select all

datum/station_state
	var/floor = 0
	var/wall = 0
	var/r_wall = 0
	var/window = 0
	var/door = 0
	var/grille = 0
	var/mach = 0
	var/num_territories = 1//Number of total valid territories for gang mode


/datum/station_state/proc/count(var/count_territories)
	for(var/turf/T in block(locate(1,1,1), locate(world.maxx,world.maxy,1)))

		if(istype(T,/turf/simulated/floor))
			if(!(T:burnt))
				src.floor += 12
			else
				src.floor += 1

		if(istype(T, /turf/simulated/wall))
			if(T:intact)
				src.wall += 2
			else
				src.wall += 1

		if(istype(T, /turf/simulated/wall/r_wall))
			if(T:intact)
				src.r_wall += 2
			else
				src.r_wall += 1


		for(var/obj/O in T.contents)
			if(istype(O, /obj/structure/window))
				src.window += 1
			else if(istype(O, /obj/structure/grille) && (!O:destroyed))
				src.grille += 1
			else if(istype(O, /obj/machinery/door))
				src.door += 1
			else if(istype(O, /obj/machinery))
				src.mach += 1

	if(count_territories)
		var/list/valid_territories = list()
		for(var/area/A in world) //First, collect all area types on the station zlevel
			if(A.z == ZLEVEL_STATION)
				if(!(A.type in valid_territories) && A.valid_territory)
					valid_territories |= A.type
		if(valid_territories.len)
			num_territories = valid_territories.len //Add them all up to make the total number of area types
		else
			world << "ERROR: NO VALID TERRITORIES"

/datum/station_state/proc/score(var/datum/station_state/result)
	if(!result)	return 0
	var/output = 0
	output += (result.floor / max(floor,1))
	output += (result.r_wall/ max(r_wall,1))
	output += (result.wall / max(wall,1))
	output += (result.window / max(window,1))
	output += (result.door / max(door,1))
	output += (result.grille / max(grille,1))
	output += (result.mach / max(mach,1))
	return (output/7)

It gets every floor, wall, door, machine, etc on the ENTIRE z-level, counts them up and compares them to the round-start score to give you the integrity. It is clearly too costly to put into any kind of refresh-able user interface or such.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue May 12, 2015 1:34 pm #87620

How much of a performance issue would it be?

If so then maybe add a few timers and cooldowns to it. So if you ask the console to print up a station integrity report it takes 30 seconds to do so and puts a 5 to 10 minute global cool down in effect.

Arete · Post by **Arete** » Wed May 13, 2015 5:28 am #87789

Perhaps we could use a "station integrity estimate" that starts at 100% and goes down in chunks whenever a sensor tile in each room is destroyed. Traitors specifically targeting the sensor tiles could even be an interesting method of creating a false alert.

Post by **lumipharon** » Wed May 13, 2015 6:07 am #87795

There already is a station integrity thing, for blob rounds.

Could you just use that, and make it run every 5-10 minutes or whatever?

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Wed May 13, 2015 7:34 am #87804

Malkevin wrote:And people want to increase the amount of damage a bomb can do.

Honestly, the damage is structural. I definitely wouldn't be opposed to increasing the bombcap in terms of damage to surrounding people, while keeping the structural damage the same. The latter is the part that's a bitch to clean up, and unless you're literally next to the bomb you won't be gibbed either.

RocKeD · Post by **RocKeD** » Wed May 13, 2015 7:49 am #87807

Amelius wrote:
Malkevin wrote:And people want to increase the amount of damage a bomb can do.
Honestly, the damage is structural. I definitely wouldn't be opposed to increasing the bombcap in terms of damage to surrounding people, while keeping the structural damage the same. The latter is the part that's a bitch to clean up, and unless you're literally next to the bomb you won't be gibbed either.

I believe they are trying to keep the gibbing down, as that's kinda frowned upon as the person that was gibbed cannot easily rejoin the round, and definitely not as a human.

Not-Dorsidarf · Thu May 14, 2015 5:19 pm

RocKeD wrote:
Amelius wrote:
Malkevin wrote:And people want to increase the amount of damage a bomb can do.
Honestly, the damage is structural. I definitely wouldn't be opposed to increasing the bombcap in terms of damage to surrounding people, while keeping the structural damage the same. The latter is the part that's a bitch to clean up, and unless you're literally next to the bomb you won't be gibbed either.
I believe they are trying to keep the gibbing down, as that's kinda frowned upon as the person that was gibbed cannot easily rejoin the round, and definitely not as a human.

Who cares. Bombs aren't scary anymore, they're just [pick one depending on job](Annoying things that get the shuttle called early)(A chance to be the hero and cut all the wires wrong).

Maybe if the gib range, especially on traitor bombs was buffed, they could be useful buys again

Loonikus · Post by **Loonikus** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:31 pm #88141

The way I see it, the main issue with the shuttle isn't with the shuttle itself but with the people who call it. Once the station is damaged people seem very unwilling to attempt to repair it. People don't feel invested in the round so they call the shuttle as soon as its convenient, which discourages people from trying to get the situation under control because the shuttle is coming anyway, which in turn makes people more eager to call the shuttle because the damage won't be repaired. Its a cycle.

The only way I could see this being fixed is by adding a downside to evacuating the station, which is hard since the shuttle coming means the round is ending, thus making any downside a moot point.

baconman · Post by **baconman** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:51 pm #88143

Okay, so we can agree that a shuttle call is valid if: a major department is offline; the singularity is loose; 20+ people have died; the crew/station is in danger of having any of these things happen within the next 10 minutes. Why not make it so that the shuttle can only be called if one or more of these things is happening? We could implement those sensor tiles you guys are talking about, and for the crew down ratio, just check how many people have gone offline/into crit/died on suit sensors compared to how many healthy crew members there were at roundstart.

If one of these things is true, the station is usually done for and the shuttle is 9 times out of 10 called. So we could just make it so that the shuttle can only be called in this situation. This way, a traitor has to at least do something to get the shuttle called. If we implement this, we could also make it so that if things get even worse, the station will call the shuttle on it's own (maybe 7/8 of the original crew dead and 2-3 major departments offline)

Just spit balling here how does that sound.

Celdur · Post by **Celdur** » Thu May 14, 2015 7:35 pm #88163

I dunno, there are a lot of times where everyone wants to leave that doesn't involve those drastic situations.
besides, you'd be fucked on lowpop, or after really really long rounds where everyone is just AFK.

I don't think there should be any coding stopping people from calling the shuttle, but maybe a book of shuttle call procedures to give people some direction like spacelaw does.
I mean, a single bomb is fixable, 4 bombs is probably too much, singulo is kill. But sometimes I see the shuttle being called as soon as someone shouts "XENO". Even though a ton of people would love to have a scuffle with xenos (or become one).
The book could give suggestions on how to treat any given situation, and of course a captain can deviate from that just as a HoS can deviate from spacelaw, but it is frowned upon a lot of the time by other crew members.