Gang War feedback

sirnat · Post by **sirnat** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:45 pm #83306

Bottom post of the previous page:

I was HoS on a gang round yesterday, quite honestly security didn't even have to intervene so far that I know. None of my officers died (that I know of), and I was just patrolling the hall toward science and the round ended, I was like "what?" so lol I found it to be a nice calm round.

Also, can janitors be part of cleaning graffiti off walls? Lol imagine that, 5 security guarding one janitor who removes graffiti xD

Not-Dorsidarf · Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:52 pm

When Gang isn't quite as insane as usual, I enjoy just taking a photo of every gang graffiti I see and uploading it to Gangwatch.

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:13 am #83542

How would you folks feel about making taggable areas constrained to adjacent territories that are already controlled by your gang, and the leader can place one unremoveable/unreplaceable unique sign as a base (optionally, painting over the opposition's base sign itself could be a new primary objective, similar to how cult has two different primary objectives [narnar/escape with x] for variation)? Everything else would be the same.

As-is we have a bunch of folks just waddling around and spraying over tags, typically without need for contention in any stage of the game, unless another gangster actively sees someone paint over their own tag, without a sense of 'territory'. Heck, gangs rarely form up for any reason, since time spent together means less time spent painting over territory. Forcing gangs to interact along the midline of the station, with the actual gangs forming up to protect their own territory, since there is an active 'front of battle', seems more up the alley of the gamemode than the current rendition.

Also, mirroring my post on git here as well, for ease of discussion.

> Increased pen cooldown to (15*Gang size)+45 seconds

What was it previously, for scale? I've found that very little of the station actually winds up in a gang even with zero implanting going on based on rounds yesterday. Reducing the availability of implants is a whole new can of worms and would be entailing entirely stripping rev, so let's not even consider that. Optimally, the two gangs together should have the numbers and the strength to fight on par with security in the midgame (by then everything is tagged, borders drawn, etc.) if they become an obstruction/forceimplant folks.

Constraining the paint to 15/per purchase without lowering the price in proportion, will excaberate this further, as paint will accelerate victory AND provide additional/protect your income, whereas, say, a pistol is almost completely useless at such a high price, being able to kill/protect you from 2~ people, when a slip/stunbaton and saw or welder fluid + lighter would be just as effective, or one of the billion other combat options.

Optimally, taggers should be the most expensive items, by far, whereas consumables (syndicate pistols with limited ammo and switchblades esp.) should be markedly cheaper. There isn't much you can do with a pistol with no extra ammo, and, unless the switchblade is markedly better than normal melee units, you're better off not buying it and using a station-available item instead. Perhaps, if switchblades do not have an onhand sprite and have saw-level damage, that might be enough to justify purchase and opportunity cost.

Just my 2 cents.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:17 pm #83580

I understand what you're going for, but I'm not sure how to make it work.

It's not like a lot of other games in that who controls what territory is not immediately obvious, as is where the "midline" would be. Not to mention that due to the current pacing, it's very rare to have a team organized enough to maintain border pressure and defense. The game mode is complicated enough as it is, and I don't want to exacerbate it by introducing more rules if I can't make them intuitive.

The changes to conversion rate and spraycan use was an attempt to slow things down a bit so it's not this mad disorganized scramble. One person armed with a spraycan won't be able to single-handedly bring their team halfway to victory without ever even speaking to their boss. So yes, requiring gang bosses to constantly buy more spraycans is intended design.

A common feedback I've received about pistols is that they're "well worth the investment", so I assume to many players the price is not unreasonable. I may tweak it back down to 25, but I'm unlikely to reduce it further.

Not-Dorsidarf · Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:52 pm

Suggestion: Gang tags dominance be based on how many tags each team has in that area, so that you can be super obvious that an area is yours and spend a whole can on it, discouragin the other gang from tryng to take it, or you can tag loads of areas with one tag each, but risk being sprayed over /outnumbered by other gangers doing the same thing.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:18 pm #83599

One thing we can try out is having multiple objectives for the gangs.

Obj 1: Claim at least X% of the station
Obj 2: Eliminate all rival bosses

This would necessitate some conflict while avoiding those abrupt ends where one of the bosses gets accidentally killed.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Suggestion: Gang tags dominance be based on how many tags each team has in that area, so that you can be super obvious that an area is yours and spend a whole can on it, discouragin the other gang from tryng to take it, or you can tag loads of areas with one tag each, but risk being sprayed over /outnumbered by other gangers doing the same thing.

This doesn't sound so bad any more now that I'm putting a smaller limit on spraycan use. It's something we can try out later.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:44 pm #83603

Ikarrus wrote:One thing we can try out is having multiple objectives for the gangs.

Obj 1: Claim at least X% of the station
Obj 2: Eliminate all rival bosses

I like it

TechnoAlchemist · Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:52 pm

I played as a boss earlier and I think that eliminating the boss shouldn't be an objective. Killing them does have its benefits, but I think the territory war aspect is far more compelling. I like that the tagging is such a huge part of it and I think it should stay the winning condition. It's way too easy to beat someone to death after they accidentally prick you.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:25 pm #83641

Yeah the area tagging is fine. Its a cool unique mechanic that we dont really have in any other game mode.

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:40 pm #83648

A major issue with area tagging at present if that you can tag many high-value areas from outside that area by tagging their exterior walls.

Additionally, right now it's less "defend your tags" and more "Tag/overtag stuff faster than the other gang." A good counter to this would be requiring an area be tagged for a certain amount of time before it started granting income.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:29 pm #83654

Drynwyn wrote:A major issue with area tagging at present if that you can tag many high-value areas from outside that area by tagging their exterior walls.

Additionally, right now it's less "defend your tags" and more "Tag/overtag stuff faster than the other gang." A good counter to this would be requiring an area be tagged for a certain amount of time before it started granting income.

Hey, that sounds like a pretty cool way to encourage gangs to guard their tags instead of just spraying them everywhere they can.

hanshansenhansson · Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:43 pm

I feel this mode needs some policy-changes. The new meta is tossing flashbangs at gatherings of two or more people, and just implant them all on a whim. Or just outright murder everyone with a spraycan. They should not be allowed to go after gang members who did no crime, this is not rev.

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:56 pm #83662

Agreeing with hanshan, this mode cannot work with the current policy. "He has a spray can? Place him in the gulag" or "That dude may be a gang member, beat his fucking skull in." It doesn't help when people are literally yelling that you sprayed a wall. I would suggest giving bosses some type of implant to make them a little more robust but even that will be metagamed to shit and people would find a way around it.

It seems my fears of people powergaming the shit out of this gamemode came true. Antag statues should not mean instant brigging and beatings. When people learn that secuirty is suppose to keep the peace and not hunt antags is when a gamemode like this can work.

I also don't agree with the recent change of only allowing 3 gang bosses for each side. I feel the system you had in place worked better before. I would also argue that there shouldn't be a way to deconvert but that wouldn't change anything with the current security attitude.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:05 pm #83663

Just update space law. Tagging an area is vandalism. Fighting other gangs would be assault with a deadly weapon, or attempted murder. Only arrestable if you have witnesses or evidence.

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:10 pm #83668

According to space law vandalism nets a 1 minute prison sentence. Since security is going to say you are a gang member you are never going to get out. It doesn't help that space law is simply a guide and not something you follow.

Edit: Sure we can make the policy stricter but then no one would play security except a special few. I see no way around this issue.

Arete · Post by **Arete** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:51 pm #83687

hanshansenhansson wrote:I feel this mode needs some policy-changes. The new meta is tossing flashbangs at gatherings of two or more people, and just implant them all on a whim. Or just outright murder everyone with a spraycan. They should not be allowed to go after gang members who did no crime, this is not rev.

This doesn't seem like a huge issue to me, since security only has a certain number of implants at any given time. If anything, it's more incentive for gangs to try going quiet as long as possible and be more strategic about which areas they take.

Stickymayhem · Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:17 pm

No gamemode encourages group combat like this one and it's a fucking blast when it works, and it works a surprising amount of the time.

So far I'm really happy with how this turned out. It's like if nation worked.

And security are often more cautious about imprisoning people than they would normally be. I've seen officers simply observing the fights and noting down who was involved, saving anyone who looks to be near death and generally staying out of the way of the clusterfucks. The limited knowledge about who is on the other side is great. On more than one occasion my gang has gotten into group fights with a department we thought were the enemy, but turned out to just be defending their turf from a group of greyshits anyway.

It's really fun.

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:54 am #83694

Even though security and the crew tend to have a very laissez-faire approach right now, you have to realise that security, and CENTCOM's objective is to imprison the gang leaders and strip them of their recallers, and get the hell out of there. That's a pretty hefty design flaw when you want security to be peacekeepers between factions, rather than having their own instrumental objectives themselves.

As an aside, another issue is that being a simple crewmember (being not a head/sec/gang member/janitor) is simply not rewarding in gang. No one has an incentive or reason to mess with your shift in the slightest, especially since gang members tend to stray away from the rev 'kill-everything-that-moves'-approach due to lower numbers and aim more for the 'kill everything that isn't in my gang and has/is using spraypaint'. Basically, I'm just saying that as a normal crew member, you're gonna have a very dull time of it, unless you go out of your way to act as greyshirt security.

Contrast to say, traitor, where objectives routinely involve random folks to either be killed or have their key items stolen, and you DO have some element of paranoia or whatever.

Just a point. I don't know if it's a purely negative thing or not, it just is.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:47 am #83710

Yeah looks like Sec are just gonna powergame this. Ordering tons of implants and implanting everyone in sight. No fun at all, especially when the gangs are fighting eachother and leaving Sec alone.

Would it be possible to make prison deconvert gang members rather than implants? Probably not. Having some way to bluespace teleport an item into the permabrig would be cool too.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:56 am #83714

Why wouldn't they "powergame" it?
Why should Sec be completely helpless against a growing population of antags that want sec to rot in space? Would you really argue the same thing about Cult/Rev?

People complaining about sec interfering with gangs are hilarious, you are forgetting that you are breaking the fucking space laws and they are there to stop you.

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:59 am #83715

Implants shouldn't effect the gang at all. If it does this game mode gets treated like rev which completely makes the gang bosses helpless. I don't think this gamemode will work unless you turn it into literally rev vs rev because of how security players are and what policy allows them to be.

It is very fun when security isn't powergaming the shit out of it though.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:06 am #83717

Saegrimr wrote:Why wouldn't they "powergame" it?
Why should Sec be completely helpless against a growing population of antags that want sec to rot in space? Would you really argue the same thing about Cult/Rev?

People complaining about sec interfering with gangs are hilarious, you are forgetting that you are breaking the fucking space laws and they are there to stop you.

Gangs literally have no reason to attack Sec if Sec leaves them alone. Gangs dont even break space law until they start tagging areas or hurting eachother. But no, better order shitloads of implants and use them on every single person you see. I know this server is lax on its RP, and im fine with that, but do you really hate fun enough to powergame that hard?

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:09 am #83719

Saegrimr wrote:Why wouldn't they "powergame" it?
Why should Sec be completely helpless against a growing population of antags that want sec to rot in space? Would you really argue the same thing about Cult/Rev?

People complaining about sec interfering with gangs are hilarious, you are forgetting that you are breaking the fucking space laws and they are there to stop you.

Security doesn't get involved unless they shove their stun baton into the mess. If you saw the gang rounds I previous referenced in this thread security was never really under threat. It was gang vs gang. Anyone else who got involved made themselves involved.

You have secuirty treating this mode as if it was rev. Revs go around flashing people so much that after the first 10 minutes half the station is rev. Understandable for secuirty to mass implant because literally anyone could be a rev.

In gang, the bosses convert tool has a cooldown. They cant convert fast enough to compete with implants. They also have to make their presence obvious by spraying walls to even win.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:12 am #83720

Alex Crimson wrote: Gangs literally have no reason to attack Sec if Sec leaves them alone. Gangs dont even break space law until they start tagging areas or hurting eachother. But no, better order shitloads of implants and use them on every single person you see. I know this server is lax on its RP, and im fine with that, but do you really hate fun enough to powergame that hard?

You just completely negated your own point.
Sec has absolutely zero obligation to leave you alone when you're tagging shit and killing eachother. And then the gangs obviously will want to fight back.

So what the fuck do you want them to do? Space them instead? I'd be all in favor of just spacing everybody with a pistol or shank on them for a while, I wonder how well that would be received rather than being allowed to stay in the round.

And to slyfox: Yes, let sec just ignore all the murdering of other people. That's what NT pays them for right?

Arete · Post by **Arete** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:18 am #83722

Alex Crimson wrote:Gangs literally have no reason to attack Sec if Sec leaves them alone. Gangs dont even break space law until they start tagging areas or hurting eachother. But no, better order shitloads of implants and use them on every single person you see. I know this server is lax on its RP, and im fine with that, but do you really hate fun enough to powergame that hard?

You might as well argue that it's powergaming hard for the crew to try to stop a malf AI from seizing control of the station's systems. It's not like actually activating the nuke is mandatory, after all. Darn powergaming sec trying to ruin the poor AI's fun.

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:20 am #83723

You act as if security bothers to arrest because of vandalism outside of gangmode. Come now saegrimr.

I also don't consider being locked in perma as "being in the round".

And yes exaggerate everything I say. Really helps you make your point.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:24 am #83725

You act as if security only exists to stop people having fun. You get a chance to escape through various means in perma, an implant, or space.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:36 am #83727

and you act as if Security needs to go above and beyond their duty. To stop things before they even happen. Implanting everyone before they are even in danger of being converted, or before gangs even punch a single person. It isnt Rev. Gang has the potential for some funny RP, but not if Sec feels the need to powergame to that extent. The metagame will just become gangs killing Sec before Sec can implant them. Boring.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:40 am #83728

So they shouldn't be implanting people and just letting the gangs build up members untill they decide they want the armory. Okay.
No.

"Traitor has the potential for funny RP, but not if everybody screams BEING KILLED IN MEDICAL MAINT the instant they bump into someone not on help intent."

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:02 am #83730

Missing the whole point saegrimr. It would help if you actually knew what gang mode was. Their target is not security it is the other gang. If the other gang isn't doing anything then no conflict will even happen. Read the gang wiki on how it works then report back bro.

You also seem to be under the impression that securities job it to hunt antags when it is in fact to keep law and order. If vandalism = perma then we need to rewrite space law.

inb4 you make some stupid ass comparison/joke. Hey I got one for you. "This guy is spraying shit on the wall, BETTER PERMA HIM!"

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:29 am #83735

The simple fact of the matter is it's easier to win if those who could oppose you are dead.

Gangs not attacking sec because 'they have no reason to get involved' implies the gang trust sec to not get involves - a gamble that could potentially as fuck them later.
Sec not dunking/dealing with gangs because they 'aren't breaking any laws/hurting anyone' - yet, relies on trusting the gang to not start murdering people/sec later, when they have more people and weapons to the point that sec can't deal with them anymore.

It's a standoff - and maintaining the standoff gives the other side a better chance to take the first shot - which gives them the advantage, so why would you not take the initiative yourself?

You can't call it meta, it's really just simple logic and human behavior.
I don't like that style of game, but with how it's currently setup, that's how it is.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:46 am #83738

I can make plenty of stupid comparisons for keeping a standard level of "RP" between rounds without extra snowflake policies.

Double Agent also doesn't target security. In fact they're literally just killing other traitors. They're doing YOU a favor!
Abductors also don't target security. You're actively preventing another species from learning about new species, xenophobes.
Most traitors have generic steal objectives, aren't they such nice people?
If theres no HoS, Rev doesn't even need to bother with security. Just let them have their fun bashing the CMO.
Cultists only have to sacrifice like one dude, then they just get people to sign up for their bookclub and leave on the shuttle without any hostilities.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:55 am #83740

lumipharon wrote:The simple fact of the matter is it's easier to win if those who could oppose you are dead.

Gangs not attacking sec because 'they have no reason to get involved' implies the gang trust sec to not get involves - a gamble that could potentially as fuck them later.
Sec not dunking/dealing with gangs because they 'aren't breaking any laws/hurting anyone' - yet, relies on trusting the gang to not start murdering people/sec later, when they have more people and weapons to the point that sec can't deal with them anymore.

It's a standoff - and maintaining the standoff gives the other side a better chance to take the first shot - which gives them the advantage, so why would you not take the initiative yourself?

You can't call it meta, it's really just simple logic and human behavior.
I don't like that style of game, but with how it's currently setup, that's how it is.

That kind of logic would mean there is no such thing as powergaming. That taking any measures necessary to gain an advantage over an antag is the course you should always take. Its not that you should trust antags, its that you shouldnt actively fuck them over until you know they are doing something bad.

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:02 am #83744

That's not it at all.

There is simply an optimal course of action, so of course people are going to tend to go towards that, as opposed to willfully doing something that is much more likely to get themselves killed.

This is not 'implant everyone and dunk them over the head incase they're revs/gangsters' (which IS powergaming), it's 'I know for a fact there are gangster/revs, they basically certainly violent/will be violent/whatever, time to stop them by implanting/headbanging.'
An on the gangster side of things, they're antags with objectives, so no powergaming there.

Otherwise you could say 'traitors don't for sure kill people, or even break laws, so looking for them when you know they are on station is powergaming'

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:12 am #83749

Revs ARE violent. Always. Gangs are not. There is no reason to react to them and enact martial law implanting everyone in sight. Its the equivalent of searching everyone you see during a traitor round. At that point you are not following space law or attempting to RP, you are just out to deny greentext and get your valids.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:22 am #83750

Alex Crimson wrote:Revs ARE violent. Always. Gangs are not.

Why, because they're killing heads of staff?
How is it any different than them killing eachother. They WILL kill eachother. THAT IS THE POINT.

DAs will kill everything in sight in the meager hopes they get the person who has them as their target, abductors are forcefully removing organs, traitors will go out of their way to kill people just because they CAN.

You really think what i'm saying is completely absurd? Welcome to the server, you guys run every other game mode into the ground by trying to "win". Why are you suddenly up in arms about Gang?
Don't blame me for speaking out on why its absurd to call sec powergaming. Look at what you've turned everything else into on the server.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:30 am #83754

Gangs do not need to kill eachother to win. If they do then permabrig the offenders. I still do not see it as a valid reason to start a station-wide inquisition. Its not like powergaming is always a bad thing, its the people who take it to the extremes that are the issue.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:07 am #83767

Are my epic strawmanned comparisons not blatant enough for you to understand?

Alex Crimson wrote:Gangs do not need to kill eachother to win.

Neither do traitors who have to steal a jetpack.
Revs also only have to throw the heads off to the mining station. No bloodshed involved! Its perfectly sensible!
Guess what's going to happen though?
You made it this way.

Alex Crimson wrote:Its not like powergaming is always a bad thing, its the people who take it to the extremes that are the issue.

Pick your battles, you should be campaigning to get this server more RP oriented or to allow sec to curbstomp people for giving them shit. Not to cry about security using the only tool they have to combat these types of rounds.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:38 am #83771

I'm going to be 100% honest, this isn't a powergaming sec playerstyle - This is the playstyle sec is forced into. They would get absolutely rolled if they played a passive "oh yeah i dont want to mess with the antags, man".

We're not Bay, we're not enforcing IC lack of antag knowledge because some people feel gang works better that way.

It's not even an IC stretch. What is Security? People with weapons paid to keep the station and it's crew safe. What are gangs? Groups of violent vandalizing pistol-summoning brainwashing terrorists. Seriously, Security has every right to bend over gangs, I don't even see how there is an argument otherwise. It's all or nothing in regards to enforcing level of antag knowledge in how you can respond to a direct confirmation.

Incomptinence · Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:55 am

Maybe to up the turf war make it alert the defending gang when and where their turf is being taken by their opponent?

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:17 pm #83793

Scones wrote: It's not even an IC stretch. What is Security? People with weapons paid to keep the station and it's crew safe. What are gangs? Groups of violent vandalizing pistol-summoning brainwashing terrorists.

Replace pistol with taser and you just described security twice.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:00 pm #83854

ThatSlyFox wrote:
Scones wrote: It's not even an IC stretch. What is Security? People with weapons paid to keep the station and it's crew safe. What are gangs? Groups of violent vandalizing pistol-summoning brainwashing terrorists.

Replace pistol with taser and you just described security twice.

>security
>terrorists

cmon man 'aha fug segurity :DD' isn't that funny, they're the nt-assigned first responders for whatever horrible people/monsters happen to be robusting you ingrates at any given time

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:26 am #83945

Gang Update 4 has been merged!

I've begun preparing Gang Update 5:
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/9159

#### Major Changes ####
- Capture goal reduced to 60%
- You must be in the territory physically to tag it now. So no more tagging everything from maint.
- Influence income changed to provide weaker gangs a bigger boost, while slowing down stronger gangs to promote opportunity for comebacks
- Gangs only earn influence on territories they have held on to since the previous Status Report (the income calculation every 5 minutes). This places more significance on defending your existing territory.
- Crayons and spraycans can now draw poseur tags (Fake gang tags) as graffiti.

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:06 pm #84062

Can we remove the spraycan meta by just giving them a regular name?

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:13 pm #84064

It will be annoying for gangers to tell them apart if you have both of them mixed together, though.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Feature. Defeat the enemy gang by smuggling fifty cans of regular spraypaint into their supply depot

Alex Crimson · Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:09 am

Id like to see an option to buy some kind of gang outfit, or a box of balaclavas that maybe match your gang color. Also maybe counterfeit IDs that grant basic Assistant/Maint access and give you a random name. Examining the id in-hand would reveal is as a fake.

and maybe some way to pre-set box of items into perma to help an incarcerated gang boss to escape. Even if its just some tools.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:20 pm #84221

As of Update 5 I declare the game mode "Feature Complete" in that I have reached a point of satisfaction where I no longer feel I need to add any further significant systems or features. Frequency of updates will likely fall as will the amount of changes each will make.

I will be asking head admins to introduce the game mode to regular secret rotation.

Changelog:
Update 5.1: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/9193
This most notably reduces the capture goal back down to 50%

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:06 am #84237

Still feels slightly unfinished to be honest, though. Mainly because security's role in the gamemode still feels undefined. I feel they should be more neutral as opposed to being a third party in what is supposed to be a two way war.

Just my two cents but I think it's partly because security focusing on deconversion with implants that the gamemode feels like a different flavor of rev. Honestly the only thing security should be able to do is lock you up until you snitch. That way it's up to the gangster in custody whether or not snitching and leaving the gang permanently is worth being granted freedom.

Plus the image of seeing a gangster being coerced in interrogation to spill the beans is really evocative of cool crime dramas and stuff.

Post by **lumipharon** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:46 am #84245

If sec couldn't degang people, it would be great if they just dumped any and all thugs into the gulag to sort eachother out earn their freedom through hard labour.

But yeah, it would be better if it was more about having a robust and well equiped gang, instead of recruitment focused, and deconversion focused for sec.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:57 am #84247

Yeah, I can see how implants can be too OP. I was thinking of having it like cult where it doesn't deconvert people, but can block conversions.

Or make it require two implants --one to deconvert, another to block future conversions