[POLL]Increase Head of Security's Access

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:20 pm #2207

When it comes down to it the HoS has the least amount of station (read: access to the station itself not a numbed list of access values) than any other head of staff in the game. I wish to propose that the HoS gets increased access to the station to do his/her job more effectively.

Now, hear me out.

Security can't get anywhere important. Your dying in the Cargo Bay? Welp sorry mate I have to wait for the braindead AI to get to open the door for me. Oh no that assistant ran into maint.any other room, I don't have access... Now I know that the HoS is not intended to be a beat cop with a gun, but until Malk's Sec overhaul goes in, and even after that, the HoS will usually have to function as street officer ontop of his command role. However reworking the HoS to have more access will make the HoS a more vital component of Security in terms of rallying Officers for a raid/rescue attempt/whatever as he/she will have the access needed to get into that room.

Now, what access will I be giving the HoS assuming enough people agree? The access being given is...
- Full Science Access
- Full Medical Access
- Robotics
- Atmospherics
- Cargo Bay

I would also argue that Sec Officers should have maint access, but that is a config option and SoS is not picking up the phone.

Thank you for reading.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:28 pm #2208

The Head of Security is meant to lead Security.
The access the job has as is I find to be more than enough.
If you need in anywhere else, AIs are more than just helpful to you, as are people in the departments like other heads of staff or even just workers.
The Head of Security doesn't need to be this superhuman man with near Captain like access.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:46 pm #2211

You would be surprised how unreliable other people are when Security needs them most.

The hope is to increase security cooperation and give a bit more power back to Security since I do recall a long time ago the HoS had more access to the station than he did now, this would also make it easier for the HoS and Sec in general to make quick raids and attacks on locations without relying on someone outside to help, it would also help in shutting down rogue borgs.

It's like saying the SWAT team should wait for the motel manager to trudge up and unlock every single door in one motel room. Only the HoS would benefit from this increased access thus it would incentivise Security to work together even more than they do now.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:02 pm #2213

Honestly, if the station is in a dire state, get the access needed to perform raids from the Captain or Head of Personnel beforehand.
As someone who plays Head of Security a lot, I really have never seen a need to beef the access up to this level. Maybe it's just my playstyle, but I have never found a situation where I lacked access that someone else didn't provide on such a level that would call for that access being put on the ID at round start.
I still firmly say the Head of Security is fine how it is, because it really is fine how it is.

cultist-chan · Post by **cultist-chan** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:24 pm #2229

The head of security can always ask for more access from the HOP. Also being a head you should have a hands off approach instead of a hands on unless the situation is completely dire.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:35 pm #2232

In theory, yes, in practice that rarely happens. Since the fact of the matter is there are oft not enough Security Officers in the round, which is further compounded if there is no Warden.

Another little thing to note is that I can already ask the Captain and HoP for all access and they have a hard time denying that request, I dislike that approach however. The increased access would give Security more mobility and freedom of movement when its needed.

I guess I have a different view of the HoS since I tend to play on Sybil in the more "lower" pop rounds where there is usually only one or two people in sec (Still around 20 to 30 people on the server)

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:01 am #2386

>Also being a head you should have a hands off approach instead of a hands on
>hos

I have no particularly strong opinion either way but that made me lol

in 4 years of /tg/ I have not ever once seen a desk HoS

cultist-chan · Post by **cultist-chan** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:41 pm #2472

imblyings wrote:>Also being a head you should have a hands off approach instead of a hands on
>hos

I have no particularly strong opinion either way but that made me lol

in 4 years of /tg/ I have not ever once seen a desk HoS

Have you ever seen me play it? I don't necessarily "sit at my desk and twittle my thumbs", but honestly you have to let your officers do their work. Give the warden free reign over the brig. Back them up but don't micromanage. Only slip in for major cases. Suggest things, don't demand and things will go smooth as silk. Unless you get a AI malf, rev round, blob round, or someone bombs the brig. Then you're just fucked and you have to go into panic mode.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:49 pm #2473

I was the one who removed the HoS's near all-access.

I probably share the same opinion as a lot of others, but I don't want to encourage the HoS to ignore their team to act like a Supercop, or boss around workers under other heads.

the HoS has the least amount of station

I disagree. that's not true at all.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:57 pm #2475

Most jobs have enough access to do their job. Sometimes they have to ask the AI to open the door. Security is no different.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:25 pm #2476

Ikarrus wrote:I disagree. that's not true at all.

On recount he has the 2nd least access of any head, with the CMO having the least access.

I would not be giving him all access, just increased access in general. I can rule out the additional Sci and Med access and just give him Atmo and Cargo and maybe Robotics access.

Also from my experience, Security tend to cooperate far more than anyone else, and the problem of HoS's doing their own thing happens irrespective of their access level, also HoS's are already in a position to "boss around other workers" with the access they already have?

What kind of argument is that giving the HoS slightly more access will suddenly fully enable him to boss around the station? The Captain and HoP already do that more than the HoS ever will.

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:44 pm #2503

Just give him basic of every department?

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:48 pm #2504

He already has that.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:04 pm #2508

Note that he cannot get, or let anyone into, anywhere that is actually important and useful by default in the four main departments. My proposal means the HoS would have access to most of Sci, Atmo and the Cargo bay.

cultist-chan · Post by **cultist-chan** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm #2511

Atmos, science and cargo are important?

Also the AI can let them in.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:16 pm #2512

The AI letting people in somewhere is not a good excuse, that argument can be used on many other jobs to restrict their access rights severally.

Also yes, Cargo, Atmo and Science are important areas to go to, and waiting for the AI to assist you is unreliable in critical situation and is NOT stealthy at all when need be.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:17 pm #2513

How are they so much more important than other areas he doesn't have access to? Emergencies can come from just about anywhere. How do you justify not just giving him near-all-access?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:23 pm #2514

Your complaining that I don't want to give the HoS all access?

From my experience the areas that Security and the HoS need to get into more often than others is Atmo, Science and the Cargo Bay. If anything I would ask that the Departmental Sec be given complete access to their assigned departments but that's an issue for another day.

The job of Security is getting to areas where there is trouble and stooping it, access is a key commodity to Security as Officers severally lack the needed access to get anywhere useful ever since they suddenly lost their maintenance access and the HoS is the only member of Sec that has what I would consider to be the basic access a Officer should have.

My proposal is aimed at increasing cooperation within Sec because it is in the best interests of both Sec Officers and the HoS to further work together because now the HoS has the actual access to get somewhere important right there and then.

Yes, you can ask the AI to get let in, but consider the steps it takes to organise enough of Sec together to actually preform a raid or insertion, the lack of access and AI involvement adds a further unneeded time constraint to a already lengthy process. My solution fixes this to a great extent.

Stephie · Post by **Stephie** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:49 pm #2548

He's saying that giving HoS access to areas that they has no place to be in because of their meta importance is uncalled for, and is a powergamey addition that serves no purpose except easier antag hunting. So, you might as well give HoS all access while you are at it.

You can already cooperate with AI, department members and even HoP, who can give you all access. Your proposal is increasing cooperation within security at the cost of reducing security's cooperation with every single other part of the station.

Post by **lumipharon** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:23 pm #2787

Playing as HoS I have never felt my access was not enough. Of course all access would be great, but you have general access to most of the station, just not specific rooms, and you can usually laser your way in if nothing else.
Also the HoS already has access to cargobay?

scaredofshadows · Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:51 am

Steelpoint wrote:I would also argue that Sec Officers should have maint access, but that is a config option and SoS is not picking up the phone.

I'm receptive to enabling sec for maintenance access via the config option. This suggestion has a lot of support from both players and admins.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:48 am #2879

My opinion is that Security Officer's maintenance access should be tied directly to Assistants maintenance access, so either both have it or neither have it.

Many people I've spoken to want Sec's maint access restored, and I would be happy if at least that came to fruition from this thread.

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:56 pm #2901

I am throwing this in again, I think that security should be able to have maint access without assistants having the same, but if assistants have it sec has it.

rexagon · Post by **rexagon** » Sat May 10, 2014 5:42 pm #4978

Give sec a sort of Doorjack? Might make them look more like tacticool SWAT guys.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sat May 10, 2014 7:18 pm #5005

Sounds cool. Kind of like the pAI doorjack, but faster.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Sat May 10, 2014 9:49 pm #5030

Maybe place the door jacks in the Armory, and only hand them out during emergencies?
That sounds like something that, if given to all officers, could be stolen and abused even by non-antags.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun May 11, 2014 12:29 am #5050

Some kind of portable hydraulic jack.

Basically emags the doors, as in fucks them up and requires repairing, to deter non-emergency use.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun May 11, 2014 6:22 am #5096

Hydraulic battering ram or breach charges for TACTICOOL FLASH AND CLEAR

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun May 11, 2014 7:06 am #5109

Breach charges in the armoury would be neat, they should function effectively as an explosive emag that forces open a door.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:40 pm #8058

If they were limited and irreplaceable/expensive as fuck sure but the difference between them and emags is they could blow open bolted doors as well because fuck AIs, RCDs should not be the only fast counter to bolted airlocks. They also shouldn't be able to gib people and only take down normal walls, not rwalls or flooring.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu May 22, 2014 2:12 pm #8073

Way to necro.

But to expand, a breach charge would do very little if no damage to a living target. Fluff it up to the explosive charge having a safety failure that redirects the explosive charge away from living tissue. There should only be one or two charges in the Armoury and a crate of replacements would be very, very expensive for cargo to order (80 to 100 points).

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu May 22, 2014 2:44 pm #8081

Yeah they'd be super situational and near-useless outside of malf AI or specific situations that require them but it'd still be fun to use them as an alternative to waiting around on the AI to open shit up.

Call them shaped charges if you really want to fluff up the 'safety failure' shit, it can just be directional to target airlock bolt-locking mechanisms and stuff.

Someone should sprite this up. It'd be a cool addition to the zipties/foam sprayer equipment update down the line if those are ever finished.

Incomptinence · Post by **Incomptinence** » Thu May 22, 2014 2:50 pm #8083

The head of security only needs better access to... executions!

Why is our equivalent of a small town sheriff waiting for some bureaucrat who keeps his lasers in PONCY GLASS CASES to give the all clear?

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Thu May 22, 2014 4:41 pm #8111

Incomptinence wrote:The head of security only needs better access to... executions!

Why is our equivalent of a small town sheriff waiting for some bureaucrat who keeps his lasers in PONCY GLASS CASES to give the all clear?

Because SoS

Incomptinence · Thu May 22, 2014 11:18 pm

Can't the NT server have more leeway on that?

Neerti · Post by **Neerti** » Thu May 22, 2014 11:22 pm #8202

SoS hosts Sybil, Basil, and Artyom.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Thu May 22, 2014 11:24 pm #8204

Well, it's only a matter of policy. Do we have to have the same policy as Sybil?

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Thu May 22, 2014 11:54 pm #8213

Yes. Same host, same admins, same rules.

Should the HoS get his access rights increased?