Bring back self surgery

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:49 pm #79374

Please

callanrockslol · Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:53 pm

Post by **lumipharon** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:59 pm #79379

We need that medipod thing from that shitty alien prequel movie, promethium or whatever.
Get in it, choose the surgery, it does it for you.

Not round start but something like, very advanced R&D/nuke op shuttle etc etc.

That would be much better then being sawing their own heads open and stuff implants inside with zero worries.

Post by **MisterPerson** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:23 am #79391

The thing about surgery is that it's intrinsically a two-player interaction. Reducing that down to a single-player non-interaction kind of defeats the point, the way I see it.

Nuke op design should just flat out not involve surgeries at all, although if it did wind up being necessary for them to do surgery, then yes, an auto-table is a good idea.

Post by **lumipharon** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:31 am #79396

nuke ops have a surgery table/kit, mainly for plastic surgery so they can disguise their names properly.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:33 am #79403

Was going to add bleeding for surgeries so dodgy surgeries with no one for backup could become dangerous, but this pull happened first, might still attempt it anyways

onleavedontatme · Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:35 am

lumipharon wrote:We need that medipod thing from that shitty alien prequel movie, promethium or whatever.
Get in it, choose the surgery, it does it for you.

Not round start but something like, very advanced R&D/nuke op shuttle etc etc.

That would be much better then being sawing their own heads open and stuff implants inside with zero worries.

Only if you can emag/hack it for obvious reasons

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:12 am #79479

So long as surgery fuck ups hurt you and/or introduce worse trouble than you were in to begin with, I am fully in favour of self-surgery.

I WANNA AUG THE FUCK OUTTA ME AGAIN.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:31 am #79496

I would like self surgery if it was less silly mechanically (self buckle so you can cut yourself? what? why can't you get on a proper table anyway?) and maybe if it had some additional requirement (like if you had to take alcohol or morphine to numb the pain or risk twitchy hands and extra damage).

As it was it ended up being surgery, but with none of the downsides, which was silly. You could get a tiny bit of brute damage but that was it.

As it is now if you want surgery with no trust issues get an asimov borg to do it. Too bad if you need implants/augments though, which sucks.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:53 am #79504

Can we just make it that some surgical procedures can and cannot be done individually?

So you can't cut off your own head or do surgery on your eyes, but you can still hack open your chest.

callanrockslol · Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:55 am

Brain removal should always be able to be done on yourself.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:45 pm #79538

Cheimon wrote:if you want surgery with no trust issues get an asimov borg to do it.

I find this inherently funny, since technically cutting someone open harms them. Especially with ghetto tools.

Not-Dorsidarf · Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:13 pm

That was brought up a LOT when the tools were added, but Pandarsnic, who's basically word of god with interpretation of ASIMOV said it should be okay.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:16 pm #79557

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:That was brought up a LOT when the tools were added, but Pandarsnic, who's basically word of god with interpretation of ASIMOV said it should be okay.

Pretty much, it was agreed that if we ever did give mediborgs a surgical kit that they would be freely able to use it on Humans without fear of it breaching their ASIMOV lawset.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:21 pm #79571

>self surgery was removed
>the only way it might come back is after it's been butchered to be dangerous and potentially not worth it

why

i don't have the energy anymore just why

qwert · Post by **qwert** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:14 pm #79579

Self surgery ruins the whole idea of implant and release. If it is readded, Implants need great chance of critical malfunction on removal.

Lumbermancer · Post by **Lumbermancer** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:36 pm #79794

Allow self surgery but ghetto style only.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:59 pm #79810

if the implant disappears from the console then you catch the person again and liquidate them for being dangerous persons no longer fit for society

self surgery and an agent card is great for disguises tbh, I did it once. If the great fun removers insist on clamping down on self surgery, at least add it back with increased malfunction rates. As it is, you can already malfunction badly, my scalpel once slipped while trying to aug my eyes and I ended up stabbing my brain and having to deal with a whole bunch of brain damage. It's just one of those options open to people that make ss13 sandbox in nature. A 'you can' rather than 'you can't' attitude towards things.

Incomptinence · Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:27 pm

Self surgery should at least be enabled for the parts of a surgery a borg cannot do for you.

What is the point of surgical borgs if half the procedures become 3 person affairs in need of someone can use an item on you?

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:42 pm #79965

Just give surgery borgs hands, it can't possibly go wrong :^)

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:21 pm #80012

hacked mediborgs are already scary enough

>mute script
>pacid spray you
>circular saw your naked flailing body
>remove your brain
>acid your brain

>giving this monstrosity hands so it can baton you and take you into maint as well

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:35 am #80124

More along the lines of 'so it can put you in an MMI and reproduce.'

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:25 pm #80146

Easy, you give them a suction cup device that can only hold brains/mmis

TheNightingale · Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:39 pm

And implants/robotic limbs (for augmentations)? It should be able to extract things too, like xeno larvae, implants or chest cavities.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:59 pm #80172

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/8713

ThanatosRa · Post by **ThanatosRa** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:28 pm #80192

I now want to play Medbay as a traitor, while named Nigel and offer surgery to people.

omnitricks · Post by **omnitricks** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:08 am #80829

Please self surgery please. I cannot get myself augmented in lowpop rounds now...

Post by **MisterPerson** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:12 am #80832

omnitricks wrote:Please self surgery please. I cannot get myself augmented in lowpop rounds now...

Because surgery needs to be rewritten. Self-surgery is not a cure for the fact the system is shit.

Poorman · Post by **Poorman** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:01 am #81059

MisterPerson wrote:
Because surgery needs to be rewritten. Self-surgery is not a cure for the fact the system is shit.

Are you going to rewrite it? Is anyone going to rewrite it? Why pull it out before you can fix it? There was literally no reason. It gave a feature that should have been in the game in the first place, and now the game is less fun with it gone.

Does the playerbases' thoughts matter to any of you? Why post feedback threads, why post anything if you're just going to pull these random revisions that nobody asked for? If surgery is so fucking broken, then why hasn't anyone fixed it?

Has anyone on the coderbus even started work on replacing this? At all?

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:37 pm #81094

Technically self surgery did come about from a bug, I'm not sure why it was changed so that being buckled to a bed no longer made you drop your items.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:35 pm #81120

Probably because buckling is instant, so it acted as a ridiculously fast disarm.

Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:37 am

Malkevin wrote:Technically self surgery did come about from a bug, I'm not sure why it was changed so that being buckled to a bed no longer made you drop your items.

It was a refactor of update_canmove() to make the item dropping happen as part of fall() instead of being tied to canmove. Letting people hold onto things while buckled is an oversight but the whole proc is oddly complicated for such a simple thing it does.

Personally I actually like people being able to hold things while lying down which was why I didn't cut that out. I feel that should be expanded upon so that lying != can't hold things.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:45 am #81211

MisterPerson wrote:
Malkevin wrote:Technically self surgery did come about from a bug, I'm not sure why it was changed so that being buckled to a bed no longer made you drop your items.
It was a refactor of update_canmove() to make the item dropping happen as part of fall() instead of being tied to canmove. Letting people hold onto things while buckled is an oversight but the whole proc is oddly complicated for such a simple thing it does.

Personally I actually like people being able to hold things while lying down which was why I didn't cut that out. I feel that should be expanded upon so that lying != can't hold things.

Prying revolvers from cold dead hands when

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:42 pm #81803

Yes. Fuck whoever thought it was a good idea to remove it without even asking the community.

wolfernater · Post by **wolfernater** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:45 am #83290

Self surgery just allowed for more singleplayer uninteractive shenanigans. If you badly want surgery, why not try interacting with the crew and asking for a hand? Weirdly, a game that is largely about roleplay is actually pretty fun when you start cooperating with your fellow players. Huh, who would have thought. Doctors are often happy to perform surgeries if you give them the chance and instead you want to just do it all yourself? The one time they wont do surgery for you is when you're an evil traitor who is doing something shifty and evil. In that case, why not add a traitor uplink item that allows for self surgery? Perhaps also there should be a surgery table upgrade that allows that lonely robotocist to augment himself when he hasn't got anyone to help him. Self surgery in it's previous state however, really shouldn't be added back in to the game.

omnitricks · Post by **omnitricks** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:32 pm #83303

Implying there will always be other people around to help you perform augmentation surgery, or people who aren't too busy building their own mech/fucking around in medbay to even bother to help.

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:23 am #83543

RIP a good host creative and robust traitor ideas that very few people do, but are cool when executed; like implanted, voice-activated brig door-openers, self plastic surgery, using your chest as a tertiary item space (you could not seal the wound and take an emag/etc. out in the brig), stationwide sabotage from your cell, etc.

I mean, the last thing we need are things that remove creativity and freethinking from the game. Bugs or not, isn't half the fun of an open game like DF or SS13 about how interesting bugs evolve into wholely unique features that add gameplay and creativity where something strictly 'realistic' would never see them? Realism isn't the objective here in the first place - fun is, so why not keep it in wholesale when no one complained about it for the last several years?

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:55 am #83545

>Self surgery just allowed for more singleplayer uninteractive shenanigans

no realistically speaking, all it does is cut down on antag creativity since let's be real honest here, this isn't a server where traitors prefer to trust someone doing surgery on them. And the game doesn't suffer at all from losing out on this very particular antag/non-antag interaction.

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:25 pm #83584

just fyi im fairly sure that self surgery is back with a heightened fail chance (+ fail chance from not being unconcious)

MeatShake · Post by **MeatShake** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:50 pm #83623

Everyone here is arguing from a gameplay/balance perspective which I find silly. It's a roleplaying game that prides itself in (somewhat) being realistic.

Limit self surgery to certain procedures, make the success rate naturally low but similar to that scene in Heavy Rain allow preparation to help your chances greatly. Make it loud and messy without precautions as well (gag, gauze on hand, just impractical in general) so people performing it will be discovered.

Surgery by a professional should be HIGHLY encouraged, and if they're making mechs and other stupid shit complain to a head or better yet an admin. Shitters eating up slots to fuck around just ruins the round for everyone else- we all know this. The only people opposed are 'powergamers' either in denial or unaware.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:57 pm #83635

Are their any negative effects from screwing up whilst removing an implant?

Because failure whilst removing a chemical implant should cause it to inject you with all its chemicals.
A loyalty implant I guess should kill you or give you brain damage or something.
Not sure what a tracking implant would do though, alert the prisoner management consoles? Summon beepsky there who'll arrest anyone at that location that he sees?

Not-Dorsidarf · Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:15 pm

Alert sec with the name of all people in sight of the patient?

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:18 pm #83982

Malkevin wrote:Are their any negative effects from screwing up whilst removing an implant?

Because failure whilst removing a chemical implant should cause it to inject you with all its chemicals.
A loyalty implant I guess should kill you or give you brain damage or something.
Not sure what a tracking implant would do though, alert the prisoner management consoles? Summon beepsky there who'll arrest anyone at that location that he sees?

I like this, sounds good.

Maybe a tracking implant should set a sec radio alert, like beepsky does, and then self destruct. Some damage from acid would make sense.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Tue May 05, 2015 2:14 pm #85871

Malkevin wrote:Are their any negative effects from screwing up whilst removing an implant?

Because failure whilst removing a chemical implant should cause it to inject you with all its chemicals.
A loyalty implant I guess should kill you or give you brain damage or something.
Not sure what a tracking implant would do though, alert the prisoner management consoles? Summon beepsky there who'll arrest anyone at that location that he sees?

Yeah that makes sense. A loyalty implant should be extra hard to remove since it's supposed to make you loyal to the company.