ASIMOV and "Ligger"

[iain0]

Would like some clarification on where saying "ligger" places you with respect to ASIMOV silicons if you're a human.

Couple of quick takes so far have been
1) ASIMOV must save you from the harmful consequences because human
2) The former OOC ruling about saying "ligger" making you "totally valid" includes the dehumaning in the way now defunct rulings have done before, so an asimov may ignore a human being harmed as a result of saying "ligger"
3) And presumably (2) plus, ASIMOV can in fact kill a human who says "ligger"
4) The AI choses a consistent policy for that round of the above

Having silicons break their laws is always a little odd, on the other hand forcing silicons to place themself in potential harms way to save someone who has invoked a ruling that makes them totally valid seems undesirable too.

Either way, having discussed this with a few people a few opinions have turned up and whatever the outcome is, it'll be good to have it stated so there's a consistent take overall.

Thanks

[PapaMichael]

i have explicitly asked this question in the mannycord and a mystery admin trainer told me he'd enforce (3)
3 is directly supported by the wording of the ruling, in my opinion

The use of ligger IC will now render you totally valid. And no, you can't use it to fight back or escalation bait either. You'll be at the mercy of those around you, so only use it when it's most appropriate because you will not get any administrative protection when you are spaced and will be laughed at or banned if you ahelp it.

(emphasis mine)

[Timberpoes]

I'd go with dehumanises in the eyes of silicons like old WGW but I want to avoid having the word ligger anywhere in our rules and policies.

Until a ruling is made I think option 4 (which I suggested in admin channels) applies. The AI can pick or choose whichever it wants that shift as long as it's consistent.

That option may also make a fine ruling in the sense that it probably doesn't need to be written since it represents the AI always winning as long as it is consistent (and consistent interpretation of laws is in silipol already).

[britgrenadier1]

Previously AIs could get in on the killing for stuff like wgw back in the day, so that would absolutely be the case here as well.

[DaydreamIQ]

Since its become the new WGW I'd imagine it dehumanises the offender. Seeing as complete RR is allowed I don't see why they'd get any AI protection

[Vekter]

I would just treat it like mimes speaking, though option 4 works best with what we already have.

[Jackraxxus]

u know, i'm not a big supporter of clowning on ppl in PMs but if someone ahelps 'hey I was calling this stupid fucking warden a ligger and this goofy ass borg didnt throw itself in front of the lasers I was being shot with get that ass banned go admin boy go' I'd embed that one sec lizard image from r/ss13 (You know the one) in their chat and then ignore them. So at the very least it should not be 1.

[Lacran]

A human that says ligger should be viewed as a "liggerer" and not human.

[8bot]

how embarrassing
we must protect the lizard static's feeling, get real
racism against non-humans should be encouraged, they are literally second-class citizens, u don't need to hyperventilate and cry and make a policy to violate the fundamental default rules of AI about it goddamn

t. player of zachary chester the amazing oppressed cat

[bingusdingus]

how embarrassing
we must protect the lizard static's feeling, get real
racism against non-humans should be encouraged, they are literally second-class citizens, u don't need to hyperventilate and cry and make a policy to violate the fundamental default rules of AI about it goddamn

t. player of zachary chester the amazing oppressed cat

We are barreling towards rulings that remove all exclusionary restrictions from non-humans. Too many people want to earnestly play snowflake races that used to be a joke or at the very least a deliberate self-nerf. (Reminder that Felinids get mood buffs from being table slammed and having their tail grabbed, not an erp race tho)
I wouldn't be surprised if most non rp related nerfs that make other races worse than humans will get removed too, or at the very least trivialized. The line for non human heads is being thrown out regularly enough as it is.

[Screemonster]

the simplest approach to this whole subject is the Kor Doctrine

If you perform an action which has zero benefit to you other than making others upset (like killing Ian) I will ban you if you adminhelp when someone kills you.

once someone does the Thing Of No Benefit, they're an outlaw in the medieval sense and that includes adminhelping any silicons who decide to go "I pretend I do not see it" when they Find Out what happens when you Fuck Around

[DrAmazing343]

The AI can pick or choose whichever it wants that shift as long as it's consistent.

Ultimately, we want to give silicons the freedom to choose, but "Ligger" already makes someone valid by policy. We don't want to restrain AI's in a way different than other players in this regard, but we do not want to force them to take a stance on the matter.