Revert to save pop

[iksde]

Why not revert the codebase to pre boring fun ruining changes like removal of seperated chems, ruining atmos and fusion, losing intents while bringing the good changes like the better UI, injuries etc.
Everything could be fixed by changing how you approach "balancing" the game, just focus on the fun instead of removing features to balance a SANDBOX game you could just not do that and instead add in more ways to counter said issue, powerscale other jobs up.

Neat idea no ?

[Indie-ana Jones]

Explain why combat mode is worse than intents? You can do everything you can with intents in combat mode, plus combat mode is far, far less clunky.

[Jacquerel]

If we set the codebase back to a set point in the past then re-evaluate every change made since and only merge what we think are the good ideas we'll end up with pretty much exactly the same code we have right now

[Vekter]

[iksde]

Explain why combat mode is worse than intents? You can do everything you can with intents in combat mode, plus combat mode is far, far less clunky.

Intents felt way less clunky to me personally, used to be able to just blaze through whatever I wanted to do with 1234 shift and left click. With intent mode I also felt it was always way more clear what was going to happen for example green intent no harm red intent harm, with the new system I always kind of have to guess which keybind combo and button toggled will result in me shoving, hitting or hugging.

[iksde]

If we set the codebase back to a set point in the past then re-evaluate every change made since and only merge what we think are the good ideas we'll end up with pretty much exactly the same code we have right now

doubt it since so many changes are quite literally "me die to this me nerf" but instead it should be "me die me buff counter". I dont think anyone ever has been happy about botany DNA machine removal or Ghilker just ego changing the whole of atmos and adding tiered cans for whatever reason.

I think you could probably straight up go through the last 3+ years of bad changes in a day or two tops to find out everything to bring. Hardest part would be getting all the pieces together and working while removing the undesirable changes

[Timonk]

bro you been banned for 3 years now what do you have to say about the current state of the game

[iksde]

bro you been banned for 3 years now what do you have to say about the current state of the game

Still play some TG downstreams from time to time and watch some videos but everyone can see the decline that is happening, while I was still more active I often felt that the changes being made were nonsense but everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect that.

cant be very fun playing 8 pop servers though can it

[Vekter]

"I've been banned for 3 years for griefing and ban evasion, but I definitely know what caused Sybil pop to decline, and it's everything I hate about the game".

You're trying way, way too hard. Which downstreams do you play on? Because you're banned from all of the ones who report public bans.

Round 22799 - Released a virus named "Jew disease" with symptoms "Sneezing, Viral self-adaptation, Eternal Youth, Necrotic Metabolism, Deafness, Hyphema" as a non-antag.

Fucking yikes.

[Timonk]

"I've been banned for 3 years for griefing and ban evasion, but I definitely know what caused Sybil pop to decline, and it's everything I hate about the game".

You're trying way, way too hard. Which downstreams do you play on? Because you're banned from all of the ones who report public bans.

Round 22799 - Released a virus named "Jew disease" with symptoms "Sneezing, Viral self-adaptation, Eternal Youth, Necrotic Metabolism, Deafness, Hyphema" as a non-antag.

Fucking yikes.

the ones he ban evades on

[iksde]

"I've been banned for 3 years for griefing and ban evasion, but I definitely know what caused Sybil pop to decline, and it's everything I hate about the game".

You're trying way, way too hard. Which downstreams do you play on? Because you're banned from all of the ones who report public bans.

Round 22799 - Released a virus named "Jew disease" with symptoms "Sneezing, Viral self-adaptation, Eternal Youth, Necrotic Metabolism, Deafness, Hyphema" as a non-antag.

Fucking yikes.

play on monkey sometimes and my own private server man, whats with the hostility? havent been evading since my last appeal just here to yap about one of my favorite games

[Timonk]

no idea either tbh, we were all young and edgy once

[iksde]

"I've been banned for 3 years for griefing and ban evasion, but I definitely know what caused Sybil pop to decline, and it's everything I hate about the game".

You're trying way, way too hard. Which downstreams do you play on? Because you're banned from all of the ones who report public bans.

Round 22799 - Released a virus named "Jew disease" with symptoms "Sneezing, Viral self-adaptation, Eternal Youth, Necrotic Metabolism, Deafness, Hyphema" as a non-antag.

Fucking yikes.

Clearly you dont see things the same way as I do and prefer to instead bring up something from three years ago, how about instead of doing that instead give some feedback like oh I think everything is just perfect right now or maybe something you would like changed?

[Vekter]

Clearly you dont see things the same way as I do and prefer to instead bring up something from three years ago, how about instead of doing that instead give some feedback like oh I think everything is just perfect right now or maybe something you would like changed?

You're trolling so I don't feel like engaging with you on the same level.

[iksde]

Clearly you dont see things the same way as I do and prefer to instead bring up something from three years ago, how about instead of doing that instead give some feedback like oh I think everything is just perfect right now or maybe something you would like changed?

You're trolling so I don't feel like engaging with you on the same level.

my bad I didnt realise I was trolling

[norsvenska]

longestarm? is that you?

[TheFinalPotato]

maintainers, please reset the game to when I started playing and then readd all the GOOD (not objectively bad/ontologically evil everyone agrees on these) changes that I like.

[Bawhoppennn]

I agree on combat mode and the singulo engine, but almost every other change has been for the good of the game in the long-term.

But anyways claiming ""decline"" is not something that can come from someone who joined in 2020. Lmao.

[iksde]

I agree on combat mode and the singulo engine, but almost every other change has been for the good of the game in the long-term.

But anyways claiming ""decline"" is not something that can come from someone who joined in 2020. Lmao.

In what way would content removal ever be good for the state of the game? I am also considering killing content (making it so there is practically no point or its just blatantly too time consuming on average to do) as that. When was the last time you saw someone make a grenade spear for example?

[iksde]

maintainers, please reset the game to when I started playing and then readd all the GOOD (not objectively bad/ontologically evil everyone agrees on these) changes that I like.

I mean instead of just blatantly going ego mode and saying that every change was good why dont you think about it a bit more?

Picture I took while visiting China.

[Timonk]

In what way would content removal ever be good for the state of the game?

for maintainability. for example, if you have a very complex system with many possible bugs that no one ever uses you should probably remove or disable it.

grenade spear is just explosion on a stick, it maintains itself. does not need to be removed.

[iwishforducks]

they should be paying me to read these threads

[TheFinalPotato]

I mean instead of just blatantly going ego mode and saying that every change was good why dont you think about it a bit more?

I thought about it and I thought it was dumb.
There are changes I like and changes I dislike but asserting that there is a list of changes we all agree are bad is on its face dumb, as is evidenced by the ones discussed in this thread.

[TheSmallBlue]

The game is Fun though. It feels stupid to want to change a game people enjoy for people that aren't even playing it anymore

[iksde]

The game is Fun though. It feels stupid to want to change a game people enjoy for people that aren't even playing it anymore

Im not saying that the game isn't fun, the core of the game is still there and it is amazing but all I am saying is that it could be way better. All I am saying is that a polling feature like maybe in OSRS to figure out actually what to do.

All I am saying is all the recent bans are from evaders and ban appeals is almost always empty, that cant be a sign of a healthy / growing community

[FantasticFwoosh]

Fighting against future change used to be my job, but now i am made obsolete by maintainers keeping the status quo on systems by treating the the past as a adversary, rather than a community lead shift to the future, AITA?

[iain0]

and ban appeals is almost always empty, that cant be a sign of a healthy / growing community

Lol, well, I took the bait. Go to ban appeals, resolved appeals, check todays date, check the date of the last post on the page. Go back through pages. Get a feeling for ban appeal quantity over time. Find it doesn't change much in the last year or so. It's largely 3-6 weeks per page, consistently. Unless you literally just meant the active appeals in which case almost empty means people be doing their job and processing them, given the resolved volume doesn't change much. Either way all seems fine, but according to you it's unhealthy. Because you said it is. Meanwhile I bring data.

Still, as someone said, rather the troll thread, nothing really evidenced and subjective takes just pulled out the air as facts.

Intents should stay dead and the SM is way better than the silly old engines. My subjective takes stated as a fact. Oh dear, turns out there's no universal consensus of what would be the right path. Who could have seen that coming.

Though I will agree on, as you said, "more fun" good! Go PR more fun. I think there's a global variable somewhere that controls it.

[RaveRadbury]

Fighting against future change used to be my job, but now i am made obsolete by maintainers keeping the status quo on systems by treating the the past as a adversary, rather than a community lead shift to the future, AITA?

Fwoosh I'm not sure I follow and it's been a while since I've seen you around here, would you mind going into a bit more depth?

I've always appreciated the time and effort you've put into posts around here. One more for old time's sake?

[iksde]

and ban appeals is almost always empty, that cant be a sign of a healthy / growing community

Lol, well, I took the bait. Go to ban appeals, resolved appeals, check todays date, check the date of the last post on the page. Go back through pages. Get a feeling for ban appeal quantity over time. Find it doesn't change much in the last year or so. It's largely 3-6 weeks per page, consistently. Unless you literally just meant the active appeals in which case almost empty means people be doing their job and processing them, given the resolved volume doesn't change much. Either way all seems fine, but according to you it's unhealthy. Because you said it is. Meanwhile I bring data.

Still, as someone said, rather the troll thread, nothing really evidenced and subjective takes just pulled out the air as facts.

Intents should stay dead and the SM is way better than the silly old engines. My subjective takes stated as a fact. Oh dear, turns out there's no universal consensus of what would be the right path. Who could have seen that coming.

Though I will agree on, as you said, "more fun" good! Go PR more fun. I think there's a global variable somewhere that controls it.

I feel youre taking this like I am personally insulting you and your family which I am not. What I am basically stating here is that over the years the changes have not been as community driven as they perhaps should have been leading to some questionable changes. Obviously not everyone agrees what those changes are ( some are really obvious anti fun changes like seperated chems removal etc ) so taking some time to review past changes and implement better polling for future ones might not be the worst idea. Going to github to try to find the PR that actually changes something between 10000th and 10001th flavour text change isnt really great!

About the ban appeals thing, maybe I am wrong I just enjoy reading ban logs and appeals in my pharmacology class. You can really find some bangers out there like that one monkey guy!

P.S THERE 100% ARE BAD CHANGES WHY CANT YOU SWALLOW YOUR PRIDE AND ADMIT IT

[datorangebottle]

Oh boy, it's another 'banned player makes a post about how to save tgstation, implying they're still evading' timeloop. I love these. Let me get my popcorn.

Intents felt way less clunky to me personally, used to be able to just blaze through whatever I wanted to do with 1234 shift and left click. With intent mode I also felt it was always way more clear what was going to happen for example green intent no harm red intent harm, with the new system I always kind of have to guess which keybind combo and button toggled will result in me shoving, hitting or hugging.

Nostalgia and muscle memory don't make intents a good system.

[iksde]

Oh boy, it's another 'banned player makes a post about how to save tgstation, implying they're still evading' timeloop. I love these. Let me get my popcorn.

Intents felt way less clunky to me personally, used to be able to just blaze through whatever I wanted to do with 1234 shift and left click. With intent mode I also felt it was always way more clear what was going to happen for example green intent no harm red intent harm, with the new system I always kind of have to guess which keybind combo and button toggled will result in me shoving, hitting or hugging.

Nostalgia and muscle memory don't make intents a good system.

not playing tg on god , im botting old school runescape for gold

[iain0]

I feel youre taking this like I am personally insulting you and your family which I am not. What I am basically stating here is that over the years the changes have not been as community driven as they perhaps should have been leading to some questionable changes. Obviously not everyone agrees what those changes are ( some are really obvious anti fun changes like seperated chems removal etc ) so taking some time to review past changes and implement better polling for future ones might not be the worst idea. Going to github to try to find the PR that actually changes something between 10000th and 10001th flavour text change isnt really great!

About the ban appeals thing, maybe I am wrong I just enjoy reading ban logs and appeals in my pharmacology class. You can really find some bangers out there like that one monkey guy!

P.S THERE 100% ARE BAD CHANGES WHY CANT YOU SWALLOW YOUR PRIDE AND ADMIT IT

Nah, nothing personal, just see a lot of people stating their takes as facts, and in the case of the appeals it wasn't that hard to do the research. Just kinda gives that feel that you're just presenting your take as if its an objective truth and best for the game, but there's nothing to evidence any of it, and something to counterevidence your implication everything's dying, with which you backed up your opinionfacts.

And sure, I don't deny there are bad changes. Bring back EMPed defibs, medical really gets the shaft on weapons. But I also dont expect the world to agree and its all whatever, game is fine.

[Lacran]

Nah he's right, change men bad

[FantasticFwoosh]

Fighting against future change used to be my job, but now i am made obsolete by maintainers keeping the status quo on systems by treating the the past as a adversary, rather than a community lead shift to the future, AITA?

Fwoosh I'm not sure I follow and it's been a while since I've seen you around here, would you mind going into a bit more depth?

I've always appreciated the time and effort you've put into posts around here. One more for old time's sake?

I appreciate the sentiment, thanks; but you're probably not going to like what I say next. Out of all the art and 'development' folks i've seen come and go, they act as if they never even enjoyed the past, like they've been sat on the sides waiting for the day they have the power to skew the game how they want it. I don't have to agree with iksede, but i don't even see people going "Hell yeah that was ace, but maybe not right now" to embrace the sentiment of what he's driving at.

Tg swayed from its roots of the 2bit MUD a long time ago, i consider myself a developer on the game in my own small corner as with scores of other people, and now its sad to see it's just a top down project you can't approach while SS14 trundles closer, making even the most complex attempts futile. Sorry if i implied any of you were a asshole in the previous post, but i just needed to grab your attention, i think we belong in the past because we are kidding ourselves on being the future. /rant, ill return back to my tomb now, im all tired out.

I officially endorse /tg/station SS14: we, me, you and I are history on this platform.

[Super Aggro Crag]

hi crag here

i don't understand why you would say combaticus mode is more clunkier than intentreon mode

"oh i can swamp between intents with 1234"

you can toggle combaticus On/Off by pushing the F button

u can grabulate by holding down ctrl

i use WASD so those keys are very close to my lefternmost hand while i play. are you a arrow key user?

[stairmaster]

if you give a shit about intent versus combat mode you are spiritually an old man

[iksde]

hi crag here

i don't understand why you would say combaticus mode is more clunkier than intentreon mode

"oh i can swamp between intents with 1234"

you can toggle combaticus On/Off by pushing the F button

u can grabulate by holding down ctrl

i use WASD so those keys are very close to my lefternmost hand while i play. are you a arrow key user?

3 3, 3 4, 4 4, 2 2 4, 2 2 4, 2 2 4

[Super Aggro Crag]

hi crag here

i don't understand why you would say combaticus mode is more clunkier than intentreon mode

"oh i can swamp between intents with 1234"

you can toggle combaticus On/Off by pushing the F button

u can grabulate by holding down ctrl

i use WASD so those keys are very close to my lefternmost hand while i play. are you a arrow key user?

3 3, 3 4, 4 4, 2 2 4, 2 2 4, 2 2 4

8,0,0,8,1,3,5

[RaveRadbury]

I appreciate the sentiment, thanks; but you're probably not going to like what I say next. Out of all the art and 'development' folks i've seen come and go, they act as if they never even enjoyed the past, like they've been sat on the sides waiting for the day they have the power to skew the game how they want it. I don't have to agree with iksede, but i don't even see people going "Hell yeah that was ace, but maybe not right now" to embrace the sentiment of what he's driving at.

Tg swayed from its roots of the 2bit MUD a long time ago, i consider myself a developer on the game in my own small corner as with scores of other people, and now its sad to see it's just a top down project you can't approach while SS14 trundles closer, making even the most complex attempts futile. Sorry if i implied any of you were a asshole in the previous post, but i just needed to grab your attention, i think we belong in the past because we are kidding ourselves on being the future. /rant, ill return back to my tomb now, im all tired out.

I officially endorse /tg/station SS14: we, me, you and I are history on this platform.

Would you mind elaborating more on this?

[massa]

I appreciate the sentiment, thanks; but you're probably not going to like what I say next. Out of all the art and 'development' folks i've seen come and go, they act as if they never even enjoyed the past, like they've been sat on the sides waiting for the day they have the power to skew the game how they want it. I don't have to agree with iksede, but i don't even see people going "Hell yeah that was ace, but maybe not right now" to embrace the sentiment of what he's driving at.

Tg swayed from its roots of the 2bit MUD a long time ago, i consider myself a developer on the game in my own small corner as with scores of other people, and now its sad to see it's just a top down project you can't approach while SS14 trundles closer, making even the most complex attempts futile. Sorry if i implied any of you were a asshole in the previous post, but i just needed to grab your attention, i think we belong in the past because we are kidding ourselves on being the future. /rant, ill return back to my tomb now, im all tired out.

I officially endorse /tg/station SS14: we, me, you and I are history on this platform.

Would you mind elaborating more on this?

i think he's suggesting /tg/ upgrades its engine and throws its weight around in the ss14 arena

[RaveRadbury]

Would you mind elaborating more on this?

i think he's suggesting /tg/ upgrades its engine and throws its weight around in the ss14 arena

I understand what he's saying, I would just like to hear more from him.
Fwooshposts are of a rare quality and he only stops in on occasion these days.
We'll never know when the last Fwooshpost will be.

[Helios]

If we set the codebase back to a set point in the past then re-evaluate every change made since and only merge what we think are the good ideas we'll end up with pretty much exactly the same code we have right now

There could be a similar comparison between that line of thinking, and Jagex when it came to Runescape 3 or WoW with the latest expansion. But both could recognize there was some appeal in a "Classic" version of the ruleset.

I've seen /tg/station and SS13 more broadly go through various metas and balances the last 15 years.
An SS13 "Classic" which handled stuns, chems, cloning, genetic powers, botany and other departments balancing differnetly could appeal to a certain part of the playerbase. There has been some people who left the community lately, they might not come back with this but they are out there. In the same way OSRS didn't solve the problems of RS3 but was able to bring some people back into the community and feel like their needs were being pandered to

[massa]

it's called /vg/station babybuns

[DrAmazing343]

hi crag here

i don't understand why you would say combaticus mode is more clunkier than intentreon mode

"oh i can swamp between intents with 1234"

you can toggle combaticus On/Off by pushing the F button

u can grabulate by holding down ctrl

i use WASD so those keys are very close to my lefternmost hand while i play. are you a arrow key user?

I love reading the way you type here when you said intentreon and grabulate I fucking guffawed

[iksde]

Checked the pop today, doesnt seem that good. Obviously its 10 in the morning eu time but I personally remember back in the day the servers held steady pop most of the time. I really miss old atmospherics and botany man honestly that was so fun, i even sometimes still play an old version when I find the time to do so. It has been getting harder to do that with school and all but damn it is still as amazing as ever. Another thing I was thinking about was the gangs gamemode, incredibly chaotic and a mess but honestly that was so fun when the pop was high enough man. Virology also was crazy, I think a lot of servers nowdays have nerfed or completley removed that, sucks. I really wish I recorded my games back in the day a lot of good memories there haha. Anything you guys miss?

[conrad]

8,0,0,8,1,3,5

[NecromancerAnne]

You know, we actually had a 2019 version of the code running for a bit and it seemed to only really attracted people too it for at most a week. After that, it died off as well. Certainly, going back to it I definitely felt its age and also how little I really cared for all the content there that I played with at the time that had not survived to the modern era. (which frankly was pretty small actually, there was less there than we have now)

It certainly wasn't any of the removed modes I've experienced again on other servers when I've visted them. All of them sucked ass except maybe Families and maybe the CONCEPT of Mutineers.

[iksde]

You know, we actually had a 2019 version of the code running for a bit and it seemed to only really attracted people too it for at most a week. After that, it died off as well. Certainly, going back to it I definitely felt its age and also how little I really cared for all the content there that I played with at the time that had not survived to the modern era. (which frankly was pretty small actually, there was less there than we have now)

It certainly wasn't any of the removed modes I've experienced again on other servers when I've visted them. All of them sucked ass except maybe Families and maybe the CONCEPT of Mutineers.

Damn sounds cool, would have loved to see that! Its even apparent to me that im viewing this situation through rose tinted glasses, everything wasn't perfect for sure but I dont know man something about how it was felt really right to me. It might just be my overall stance on how I view change in general, preffering fixes and additions instead of removals etc. I just kind of miss the pace of the game honestly everything was really fast, both movement and reaching your goals, when I stopped playing and from the videos I have seen of the game recently everything seems to be at a snails pace to that. I get that it encourages player interaction and all but artificial timesinks in my opinion kind of just suck - example the changes to atmos canisters and the limits to the pressure they can hold. I still vividly remember how some crazy geneticist on hippie figured out a way to use mutagen gas to basically get all the mutations possible in 5-10 minutes?

I discovered peanut threads today also, that was pretty funny. man some of those are really crazy

[SpaceInaba]

modern players would crumple under the sheer weight of playing an old version of this game. thousands dead due to advanced energy guns on stun mode

[FantasticFwoosh]

Fighting against future change used to be my job, but now i am made obsolete by maintainers keeping the status quo on systems by treating the the past as a adversary, rather than a community lead shift to the future, AITA?

Fwoosh I'm not sure I follow and it's been a while since I've seen you around here, would you mind going into a bit more depth?

I've always appreciated the time and effort you've put into posts around here. One more for old time's sake?

Words im sure you've come to regret probably. But this about sums up my thoughts, SS14 is already rounding out faster than its being developed with the userbase, thoughts about linux users being the annoying kind of people you could meet. Every 4 people who decide to be in that group of annoying that are turned away from it, are just going to go to SS14 to follow the pace of development which builds up its own machine without getting into the bloat-era we are in now. My position on staying on SS13, is that servers should be folded and refounded as soon as they can or run into these issues, so a longformat TG's best hope is a hop to SS14

I guess this is also my chip in about Isee's post about felenids being legacy baggage that jars up the game-feel as non-constructive historical revisionism for reverts. SS14's little blue antag reminds me very much of the Gremlin antag visually and brings me back into a time when everything was coherent.