[MRP] Disallow willingly becoming cultists for antag privileges.

[carshalash]

I hate the fact this even requires a fucking thread. Apparently, there is no policy on whether running up onto cult runes and asking to be converted is 'bad' or not so admins don't want to act on it.

[AwkwardStereo]

I hate the fact this even requires a fucking thread. Apparently, there is no policy on whether running up onto cult runes and asking to be converted is 'bad' or not so admins don't want to act on it.

This is already against the rules. Pretty sure it counts as antag rolling. I have banned people in the past for doing this.

[carshalash]

I hate the fact this even requires a fucking thread. Apparently, there is no policy on whether running up onto cult runes and asking to be converted is 'bad' or not so admins don't want to act on it.

This is already against the rules. Pretty sure it counts as antag rolling. I have banned people in the past for doing this.

That's interesting since mannymins just gave it a big thumbs up.

[dragomagol]

► Show Spoiler

soo, what's with people willingly joining cult for free killing privilege?
carshalash ➡ Admins
2023-05-13T06:23:21

Why do I get noted for 'ahelping wrong' with threats but people gleefully self antagging is totally fine?
carshalash ➡ Admins
2023-05-13T06:25:53

Closed by Rageguy505
rageguy505 ➡ Admins
2023-05-13T06:26:00

woops
rageguy505 ➡ carshalash
2023-05-13T06:26:04

anyways, its pretty hard to tell who got forcibly converted and who just dived onto a rune
rageguy505 ➡ carshalash
2023-05-13T06:26:23

:doubt:
carshalash ➡ rageguy505
2023-05-13T06:26:30

i wasnt watching it the whole time but like most of them were just people standing around staring till they got stunned
rageguy505 ➡ carshalash
2023-05-13T06:26:49

Can we drop all pretenses that this is a 'roleplay server' if you're cool with allowing this stuff?
carshalash ➡ rageguy505
2023-05-13T06:27:50

Client disconnected
➡ carshalash
2023-05-13T06:35:09

You can make a complaint about it or leave admin feedback, but I dunno if I'd call this "a big thumbs up." As stereo points out, this is against the rules as written today.

[carshalash]

► Show Spoiler

soo, what's with people willingly joining cult for free killing privilege?
carshalash ➡ Admins
2023-05-13T06:23:21

Why do I get noted for 'ahelping wrong' with threats but people gleefully self antagging is totally fine?
carshalash ➡ Admins
2023-05-13T06:25:53

Closed by Rageguy505
rageguy505 ➡ Admins
2023-05-13T06:26:00

woops
rageguy505 ➡ carshalash
2023-05-13T06:26:04

anyways, its pretty hard to tell who got forcibly converted and who just dived onto a rune
rageguy505 ➡ carshalash
2023-05-13T06:26:23

:doubt:
carshalash ➡ rageguy505
2023-05-13T06:26:30

i wasnt watching it the whole time but like most of them were just people standing around staring till they got stunned
rageguy505 ➡ carshalash
2023-05-13T06:26:49

Can we drop all pretenses that this is a 'roleplay server' if you're cool with allowing this stuff?
carshalash ➡ rageguy505
2023-05-13T06:27:50

Client disconnected
➡ carshalash
2023-05-13T06:35:09

You can make a complaint about it or leave admin feedback, but I dunno if I'd call this "a big thumbs up." As stereo points out, this is against the rules as written today.

Allowing actions is a thumbs up dragomagol. Closing the ticket and not doing anything as people keep willingly getting culted is allowing actions. Logs of that round show that the only player panel inspected during that round was mine due to my complaining.

[vect0r]

Ok, admins, if somebody is just sitting on a rune to become a cultist, can you bwoink them? Thanks!

[Pandarsenic]

As stated, already against the rules - but it can be a bit hard to spot.

If you believe this is happening, please inform us ASAP in a USEFUL ahelp - give as much detail as possible of whomstdve went to get converted voluntarily, why you believe they did it voluntarily.... when, if you're able to, for log diving reasons... and so on.

That said, I think there are key factors in the logs that would indicate a conversion was voluntary - other than the simple SAY logs, you can also see...
- Did the victim get stunned
- What was in their combat logs leading up to the stun
- WHERE did they get stunned vs. WHERE did they get converted
- Were they conspicuously inactive until they got grabbed (e.g. "AFKing" in public places waiting to be stunned) and then suddenly active after conversion

We can look for all of those things, we just need the relevant names and stuff to actually know whose vibes we need to check. Hell, if you check the logs for the above, uh...

BRING BACK BAN REQUESTS 2023 no uh apparently you have to send a Forum PM to the headmins with the relevant logs, which sure is an interesting system, but I say do it anyway if you're that convinced. Also, no rules say you can't post it here to inform the discussion or in Player's Club to talk shit about them, I guess?

[Super Aggro Crag]

this is fucked up and uncool

[Fikou]

pointless thread, its already not allowed. the fact that you provided 0 info for the admin to work off in a confusing situation doesnt mean the admins gave it a big thumbs up

[carshalash]

pointless thread, its already not allowed. the fact that you provided 0 info for the admin to work off in a confusing situation doesnt mean the admins gave it a big thumbs up

People were literally in bar asking to be converted by a guy in the combat cult gear, what extra context did he need?

[Farquaar]

People were literally in bar asking to be converted by a guy in the combat cult gear, what extra context did he need?

Maybe they found his theological arguments persuasive?

[Itseasytosee2me]

Willing conversion is dumb and against the rules but I feel like there was a policy thread where a headmin (I think san or rave) said that they were alright with willing conversion if it had significant RP precedent. Like of you talked someone up enough you could convince them to take off their sunglasses to be revolutionized or something.

[Fikou]

pointless thread, its already not allowed. the fact that you provided 0 info for the admin to work off in a confusing situation doesnt mean the admins gave it a big thumbs up

People were literally in bar asking to be converted by a guy in the combat cult gear, what extra context did he need?

did you tell them who these people were exactly or just "what's with people self antagging"

all the tickets were posted by tattle in this thread. the only things said by carsh were that and ":doubt:", pretending that asking to be a cultist is allowed when he just did not give any information is in bad faith
this whole thread is pretty much just an admin complaint posed as a policy thing

[Cobby]

Willing conversion is dumb and against the rules but I feel like there was a policy thread where a headmin (I think san or rave) said that they were alright with willing conversion if it had significant RP precedent. Like of you talked someone up enough you could convince them to take off their sunglasses to be revolutionized or something.

You've always been able to "help" antags if given a particular rp incentive but that rp incentive has to measure with how youre helping.

They give you a pair of wirecutters doesnt equate to now you can help kill with the traitor for instance.

Now for cultist conversion im not sure what RP incentive outside of flat out being killed for refusing you'd want to "legally" allow for. I could see helping a cultist escape if they were particularly nice to you or something but actually joining them knowing you have to start killing or forcibly converting people who have had no quarrel with you makes it VERY difficult to justify imo (outside of the obvious I want antag).

[RedBaronFlyer]

Cult Con is peak RP. But yeah, the incident they were referring to is one that happened yesterday where someone did Cult Con in the bar on Cerestation and summoned Nar'sie in, like, 15 minutes. I don't know how "roleplay-ie" it was since I was in cargo the whole shift.

[Lacran]

In their defence it was cerestation and I would choose Nar'sie over cerestation in a heartbeat

[Misdoubtful]

This is already generally against the rules if an admin makes to the choice to enforce against it and finds evidence of it.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Headmin_Ru ... m%20antags

We agree with what Pandarsenic stated here:

As stated, already against the rules - but it can be a bit hard to spot.

If you believe this is happening, please inform us ASAP in a USEFUL ahelp - give as much detail as possible of whomstdve went to get converted voluntarily, why you believe they did it voluntarily.... when, if you're able to, for log diving reasons... and so on.

That said, I think there are key factors in the logs that would indicate a conversion was voluntary - other than the simple SAY logs, you can also see...
- Did the victim get stunned
- What was in their combat logs leading up to the stun
- WHERE did they get stunned vs. WHERE did they get converted
- Were they conspicuously inactive until they got grabbed (e.g. "AFKing" in public places waiting to be stunned) and then suddenly active after conversion

We can look for all of those things, we just need the relevant names and stuff to actually know whose vibes we need to check.

However admins also have the autonomy to waive any cult gimmicks that they see.

MRP cult weight has been adjusted from 3 to 2, and traitor from 5 to 6. Admins may accommodate any kind of gimmick cult as they see fit.

This policy was made thanks to discussion in policy bus.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Domitius: Yes.
Naloac: Yes.

That being said this not a pass for walking up and asking to be or allowing themselves to be converted willy-nilly however. The intention is that there is a gimmick present creating an interesting or unique story/experience/round. Not just people silently hopping on the rune because they can.