Shitcurity and arresting superiors without reason

[mikecari]

What is official policy regarding shitcurity that arrests and strips the head of security/other security officers for no reason? Last time I a-helped this I got told to fuck off and that it was an IC issue despite security acting like antags as a non-antag.

[Saegrimr]

"For no reason"

Assuming they weren't antags.
1. Did their superior/peer commit a crime of some sort?
2. Did the person getting arrested even attempt to get assistance from any other head of staff to properly demote/brig them for treason or something.
3. Did the other security officers just scratch their balls and watch or did they join in?

[Scones]

You sure complain about Security a lot. Are you sure you aren't the agitator?

I highly doubt consistent strip-searching (Is that what you mean? Are you referring to demotions?) is an issue unless you are consistently causing issues to the point where people are motivated to remove you from a position of power that they deem you unfit for. If nobody protests or comes to your aid, that's probably a sign that the officer in question is in the right.

Demotions are an IC issue, as is handling disruptive players so long as the demotion isn't a rule 1 violation

[mikecari]

I'm talking about roundstart security randomly tazing and arresting other roundstart security "cause lol it's an IC issue". Last time this happened nothing was done about it, despite it being a rule one problem.

[Saegrimr]

Do you have a specific date/time this happened along with some names?

[mikecari]

Do you have a specific date/time this happened along with some names?

I just want to know why nothing happens when people are intentionally acting like chelp just because they can get away with it (Toeing the line). Are most of the trialmins literally that autistic that they cant interpret the rules properly?

[RG4]

What is official policy regarding shitcurity that arrests the head of security/other security officers for no reason? Last time I a-helped this I got told to fuck off and that it was an IC issue despite security acting like antags as a non-antag.

The way I'm seeing this complaint is that someone was arrested for being a douche-canoe as an officer or HoS. Regardless ANYONE in security is able to be arrested regardless of what position they hold if they're deemed incompetent or acting like a complete prick. Cult and Rev rounds are notorious for Security being utterly terrible due the amount of people they're going to have to deal with, so it's expected for them to be dicks during those specific rounds. Understaffed Security is even worse because Tiders will come out in force just to make everything a hassle,but unless you provide some logs or screenshots of the situation, giving us a better view on this complaint. Currently the way it can be interpreted is that you were caught doing a criminal act,tiding, or got out-robusted as an antag.

[Saegrimr]

I just want to know why nothing happens when people are intentionally acting like chelp just because they can get away with it (Toeing the line). Are most of the trialmins literally that autistic that they cant interpret the rules properly?

Well unless I can get details about the situation, nothing will continue to happen.
If its as black and white as you say it is, where everybody spawns, dude whips out tazer and hits the guy next to him to "arrest" him. Then they should be banned from security.

[Loonikus]

If an admin said it was an IC issue, than there is probably something you don't know or your not telling us.

Remember that Officers and Heads are not above the law. They can be arrested, but only the Captain/acting Captain can authorize a head to be demoted.

[Scones]

I'm talking about roundstart security randomly tazing and arresting other roundstart security "cause lol it's an IC issue". Last time this happened nothing was done about it, despite it being a rule one problem.

Sounds like the sort of thing you bring logs to in the FNR board, not policy discussion.

[mrpain]

If an officer or head of staff is blatantly acting against the best interests of the station, and has failed multiple warnings and attempts to force him to correct or cease his behavior, I see nothing at all wrong with brigging him.

[Vigilare]

nobody is above the law
don't even think twice about brigging a head unless they're the hos/captain/acting captain

if they're the hos and you're brigging them something's very wrong, either with you or with them
same goes for the captain (The Captain not the hop with the spare) but you do get comdoms sometimes, so ask around and see if the captain's awful (good sign of a comdom = takes the cap's laser at roundstart)
if they have legit reason to commit a crime, it's not worth pursuing (e.g chief engineer who hacks into eva for the rcd)
acting captain gets a little leeway for crime breaking stuff, but remember - nobody is above the law

not even you, dear officer, so don't harmbaton your prisoners or your sec buddy will brig you for aggravated assault

if you're brigging sec, something's very wrong - if you can, sit down and talk about what went on, it might be a good idea to ahelp it too (brigging sec is shady business)
sometimes someone will just be a real asshole in sec and it's totally cool to ask the hos(/hop/cap) to demote them

[dezzmont]

don't even think twice about brigging a head unless they're the hos/captain/acting captain

Please please please think at least 15 times before brigging a head. They are antag immune for a reason, they have historically been brutalized by overbearing sec to the point that they were given their own security officers designed to be part of their team and department to reinforce the idea that they are big important commander guys who rank above you.

I really would like it if the policy for arresting a head involved, if the head was not actively and very visibly commiting a crime beyond "telling me not to infere in their affairs," calling the HoS who talks over command about it.

If the captain is a condom you should talk to the other heads about it.

I love sec but this is an area it can improve on. The CMO or CE is an equal to your boss and if you brutalize them then, in universe, Nanotrasen comes down hard on your boss. Screwing with a non-direct superior can be grounds for courtmarshal if you are viewing NT as a millitary group, where as in real life companies the CSO would get fired and blacklisted from any gig outside of mallcop if he beat the CFO over the head with a nightstick to search his bag because the CFO and CIO were giving him lip.

[Saegrimr]

They are antag immune for a reason,

Incorrect.

Although it is hilarious to see the CE with an objective to steal his own magboots, or the station blueprints.

[Loonikus]

They are antag immune for a reason,

Incorrect.

Although it is hilarious to see the CE with an objective to steal his own magboots, or the station blueprints.

I miss the days of traitor captains. Having to steal my own medal was the best. It left me free to start some of the best gimmicks ever. I remember the time I worked with cargo as a tator captain to ensure there were two guns for every crewman on the station.

Than I murdered a prisoner in perma and told everyone the HoS did it, and left an E-sword in his locker. The crew bought the lie, and hilarity ensued.

Good times.

But anyway, most heads can be antagonists, and even if they are not antagonists they are still not above space law.

[Loonikus]

They are not above Space Law, but arrests must be made with care, as this can make entire department hostile to security or head will attempt to sabotize security passively or actively.

When I was a regular security officer, I at least asked HoS for permission for that and it worked well.

Ya, I keep forgetting to mention that. Use your head when your arresting someone important and tread lightly.

[Redblaze3000]

Is denoting a head when they are going in and out of brandead for like 30 minutesdue to connection shit OK? as HoS a couple days ago I got demoted and locked in the interrogation chamber when I had serious connection issues. Once I got stabilized I came back and the detective had stolen my job and left me with no ID.

[imblyings]

Sounds like an IC issue. If there was shit going on and you weren't available, it's a pragmatic choice that makes sense to loot you and take over your job. It might not be the only correct choice to make but it is a choice that makes sense.

If they didn't get you a new ID or if you were stuck in the interrogation room and they didn't come to at least let you out, that might be when it becomes an OOC issue and even then, shit might be hitting the fan IC so hard they either forgot or don't have the time.

[Lumbermancer]

don't even think twice about brigging a head unless they're the hos/captain/acting captain

You should only arrest head of staff without hesitation when they either were caught red handed committing crime, or you were given such (justified) order by your direct superior. If you only have a hunch, or got tipped, that they are up to no good, you ought to run it first through HoS/Captain, or even Warden, before you arrest Head. Because they still outrank you.

[Scones]

don't even think twice about brigging a head unless they're the hos/captain/acting captain

You should only arrest head of staff without hesitation when they either were caught red handed committing crime, or you were given such (justified) order by your direct superior. If you only have a hunch, or got tipped, that they are up to no good, you ought to run it first through HoS/Captain, or even Warden, before you arrest Head. Because they still outrank you.

They don't have jack shit over you. It's polite to listen to them, sure, but they have no jurisdiction unless you're their departmental officer inside their department.

[Lumbermancer]

Just because they can't give you direct orders, or have no authority over security matters, doesn't mean they don't outrank you. Because they do, as diagram neatly shows.

They outrank you, but you're not their subordinate, if that's easier to process for you.

[Allohsnackbar]

don't even think twice about brigging a head unless they're the hos/captain/acting captain

You should only arrest head of staff without hesitation when they either were caught red handed committing crime, or you were given such (justified) order by your direct superior. If you only have a hunch, or got tipped, that they are up to no good, you ought to run it first through HoS/Captain, or even Warden, before you arrest Head. Because they still outrank you.

They don't have jack shit over you. It's polite to listen to them, sure, but they have no jurisdiction unless you're their departmental officer inside their department.

Their is one issue with your graph. Warden is over Security officers.

[Lumbermancer]

Because he has direct authority over officers in the Brig.

[Scones]

Because he has direct authority over officers in the Brig.

This

Also the Warden is (If I'm not mistaken) intended to step up in absence of an HoS

(Also your avatar really makes me miss corporate sec sprites, fuck this armor vests looked nice)

[Allohsnackbar]

Because he has direct authority over officers in the Brig.

This

Also the Warden is (If I'm not mistaken) intended to step up in absence of an HoS

(Also your avatar really makes me miss corporate sec sprites, fuck this armor vests looked nice)

Why were they even removed.

[Kangaraptor]

Because he has direct authority over officers in the Brig.

This

Also the Warden is (If I'm not mistaken) intended to step up in absence of an HoS

(Also your avatar really makes me miss corporate sec sprites, fuck this armor vests looked nice)

Why were they even removed.

People complained security weren't edgy enough so we're back to the black and red wannabe nazi uniforms.

[Steelpoint]

And good riddance to corporate security.

We worked up a compromise selection of sec sprites that incorporated aspects of multiple people's interpretation of sprites into what we have now, which is very good in my opinion.

The original, ausops (edgy), sprites are still used in game as the Bulletproof armour and helmet.

[DemonFiren]

I still miss the drill hat ;-;

[Scones]

I still miss the drill hat ;-;

RIP DRILL-SERGEANTING AT THE SECURITY OFFICERS ;~;7

And good riddance to corporate security.

We worked up a compromise selection of sec sprites that incorporated aspects of multiple people's interpretation of sprites into what we have now, which is very good in my opinion.

The original, ausops (edgy), sprites are still used in game as the Bulletproof armour and helmet.

Steelpoint begone! Corporate Security looked amazing, the new HoS look was downright perfect. The Officer clothing was a little grey and veered away from le edgy black/red natzee man, but the armor vests and lack of helmeted goons 24/7 made Security looks much less like a private military force - And much more like an actual localized Security force.

WISE CONFLICT-AVERTING EDIT: But, let's not reopen this can of worms in an unrelated thread. Discussion for another day.

[lumipharon]

are corp sec sprites still in the game or gone completely?
They would be neat as cargo orderable, or admin only shit for events.
Also armor vests look way better then poo armor that officers get.

[Steelpoint]

The Head of Security's uniform remains unchanged, at all, the only difference between pre-corp sec, copr sec and post-corp sec is that Paprika swapped out the Alternative HoS Jacket and made that the default HoS jacket while putting the original HoS Jacket inside his locker.

Also I originally did keep the corp-sec armour sprites in the game as "civilian armour" used by the HoP/Bartender and order able from cargo, but someone (pap I think) removed that for consistency reasons.

Warden has both corp and his original jacket uniforms on offer.

[lumipharon]

I mean like, the really nice lookin grey uniform, plus the swag armor vests. Should readd them atleast as admin stuff, because they were very nice sprites.

[DemonFiren]

We could go the way of Bay, have Security be the only department with thirty different clothing styles. Nonuniform Uniform, fuck yeah!

[Steelpoint]

We could go the way of Bay, have Security be the only department with thirty different clothing styles. Nonuniform Uniform, fuck yeah!

Personally I would rather we stick with one consistent uniform choice, irrespective of whatever uniforms are used.

Sadly that means we're always stuck with one uniform choice, meaning not everyone's happy. The only real solution to date is to allow the HoS/RNG to pre-select the departments uniform choice at round start/from a preference options menu.

Otherwise its a matter of opinion, but I think the last few votes we had that redcurity edged out as being the more popular choice.

[DemonFiren]

My post was mostly sarcasm, excepting my mourning for the loss of DRILL HAT FUCK YEAH.