Saline Glucose and Tricord

[Pennwick]

For this thread lets try to leave the rest of Goonchem out of this. This is just to discuss old Tricordazine, how Saline Glucose sort of replaces it, and if its a good or bad thing.

Some basic stats so we know how each worked explicitly:

Tricordrazine:
Recipe of: Antitox (silicon, potassium, nitrogen) and Inaprovaline (oxygen, carbon, sugar)
10u on average would heal: 20 brute/burn/tox/oxy over 25 ticks
Not avaiable in sleepers

Saline Glucose:
Recipe of: Table Salt (sodium, chlorine), water, and sugar
10u on average will heal: 37.5 brute/burn over 25 ticks
Availible in level 1 sleepers

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I personally feel that Tricord had a little niche where it was good. Using it as a self serve chem to heal small bumps and scrapes so the spessmen could be back at 100% without bothering a doctor. It was also great when bruise packs and ointment only targeted one limb and you had 1 or 2 damage on every limb from depressursation, cold space, or fire. And they were great to hand out to non medical staff like security to use.

It also had some problems though. Urist McGriff could eat every pill on the counter giving him 5 minutes of regeneration and leaving none for anyone else. For that matter so could the chemist. Tricord had no downsides other than healing slowly. Even then it was still quick enough to bring you out of crit if you weren't taking any damage other than oxyloss assuming you had a large enough dose beforehand. Also in theory a doctor could be exceptionally lazy and just give all paitents high doses of tricord for everything but this would require help from chemistry or mixing the Inapro and Anti-tox in the vendors and when they had bicard and kelo that healed more than twice as fast in the sleepers it usually wasn't bothered with.

Saline Glucose does a lot of the same except more. It takes the same number of clicks and energy to make and heals the two most common types of damage almost twice as effectively. It now comes in the sleepers instead of Bicard and Kelo. It has pretty much all of the same flaws though. Nothing stops you from taking a mess of it at once and getting healing for a long period of time and now its even more effective at that. Its almost as likely to bring you out of crit as well. It may not heal your oxyloss but it heals the other damage almost twice as fast.

The question is: Is this what we want it to do? I don't belive anyone was opposed to it being a weak regenerative, good for healing small injuries without a doctor. I do feel that it has legitimate balance concerns though when someone can take massive doses of it and gain constant regeneration for a long time.

One tool that I think may work are overdose thresholds that came with Goonchem. I belive if we set a fairly low threshold and a minor penalty like light to moderate slowdown then it would work better. It would still be good as a chem to heal you when you're injured but not something you'd want to stuff yourself full of on the chance you'll get injured.

This is a personal thought but might be worth discussing but I also feel that Saline heals too quickly. It can be ajusted pretty finely. I'd like to see it heal moderate amounts but so slowly that its not a great idea to use it as a quick medical tool. I know reality isn't a good base for ss13 but Saline-Glucose is pretty much just a blood suppliment. It wouldn't work quickly but it would be effective and consistant.

One thing I do love about it though is the way a chef can make it in his own kitchen. There need to be more recipies that can be made outside of chemistry and Salglu is one of them.

[Snakebutt]

My ideas for tricord were for it to only work if the patient is over 50-75%, or work just enough to bring people out of crit to like 10 health, forcing medics to use some other form of healing after that. That way tricord could be used either as an emergency medicine to save dying people, or just a way to fix minor scrapes, not toolboxings.

Tricord perfectly fills the role of topping players off, curing ALL damage from all levels is a bit op. Having DD do the same as long as you are walking isn't a bad choice either. Saline's random chance of healing won't be helped by making it take even longer to work, it's just going to lead to people injecting 30-40u at a time and fucking off.

[Pennwick]

Atropine actually does what your first suggestion does but it does it rather poorly. Healing 3 brute/burn and doing 1 tox a tick, also it only heals up to -25. I feel its range could be extended and perhaps the tox penalty being removed as it already has overdose penalties and causes dizzyness. Setting Saline only to heal above 50 or so might work well. It does leave sleepers though without a way to heal from -10 to 50. Or are you advocating Tricord being re-added as a new/old drug with the new limit?

I could see Saline staying in the sleepers with a nerf. (Maybe healing 1/1 without the 50% chance and causing fat levels of slowdown.) And Tricord being added back to chemistry with the limit of only healing above 50. It would still have issues with pill goblers though. Even being only able to heal when above 50 is pretty unbalancing its still a lot better than being so strong it can auto revive critted individuals. Not sure how to properly handle Doctors Delight. Healing 2 all every tick was overpowering whenever you could get your hands on it and it was very simple to make large amounts. If it was only healing 1/1 brute burn as long as you were above 0 it might work.

[Vekter]

The cook can make saline glucose.

Why is table salt and sugar water even healing people? It doesn't make any sense. I like the idea of it but it needs to be substantially nerfed.

[Snakebutt]

Saline working slow as fuck but 100% is a good improvement, means I can take people with stubbed toes and slap them into the sleeper and escort them out with the assurance they'll feel better soon.

I feel 50% is still a bit high for tricord. 75-80% would be ideal, it's application would be as an over the counter painkiller, same way people pop tylenol/asprin for sores. I can still leave a pile of tricord pills on the counter, but if you eat more than one, you're an idiot. if you NEED more than one, seek actual medical attention.

[Vekter]

You get what I'm saying about glucose, right? Salt, water, and sugar is super easy to mass-produce in the kitchen. Even if it works slowly, doesn't that undermine the hell out of medbay?

[Snakebutt]

You get what I'm saying about glucose, right? Salt, water, and sugar is super easy to mass-produce in the kitchen. Even if it works slowly, doesn't that undermine the hell out of medbay?

muh goon super-duper sekkrit recipes.

Seriously though, isn't salt limited to about 30u in the shaker? Wasn't aware they could make more after looting the spare in the bar.

[dezzmont]

Salt can easily be obtained from chemistry, and the amount of salt you can get form the bar and kitchen is pretty significant. I think with the 4 shakers in the bar you could make 240 units of saline.

Having the cook able to heal isn't always bad as long as it is merely a release valve for a non-functioning chem bay, just like how the barman, botanists, and cargo can produce food if the cook isn't working. But it should be deliberately possible and balanced for this use if he is going to keep it.

[Vekter]

Don't get me wrong, I definitely WANT cook to be able to make Glucose, but it shouldn't be as strong as it is. I like the idea of the cook being able to inject it into food to keep the station even more healthy.

[dezzmont]

Then we need to replace Glucose as the general healing chem meant for medical and give them something with oomf, while giving the cook something weaker that works more as a "Staying healthy!" chem.

[Pennwick]

Saline Glucose solution is an actual thing but its more a 'put nutrition' right into the veins kind of deal. It probably should be on the weaker end of the spectrum.

I belive there are two salt shakers in the bar and one in the kitchen on box, each has 20 salt. Slightly more limiting would be the fact that the cooks only have one sugar bottle I belive. This would still make 150u of saline if thats all he/she used it for. If we nerf it down to 1/1 at 100% thats still a lot of healing either for the kitchen or some chemist loading up on the stuff. I personally think needing 75% seems a little high for any new drug. It forces anyone who took a shock from a door to go into medbay but maybe thats a good thing to discourage unprotected wire handling

Heres a proposition:
Saline Glucose:
Heals 1 brute/burn every tick 100% (10 units will heal 25)
Overdose threshold of 25 (Possible in an upgraded sleeper but not a standard.)
Overdose effect -1 brute/burn undoing the damage its healing and some of the salglu solution will disolve into sugar in the bloodstream likely causing high hunger when it fully runs out.

Topper(Possibly call it Tricord but its pretty diffrent):
Heals 2 brute/burn every tick but only works over 75% (Or maybe 50%) (10u will heal 50)
Overdose threshold of 15 (This is partially for ballance, partially due to hatred of pill gobbling shitheads.)
Overdose effect: Could be a couple diffrent things, vomiting, dizzyness, passing out like you were stuck with a pre-fix Epipen.

Then we need to replace Glucose as the general healing chem meant for medical and give them something with oomf, while giving the cook something weaker that works more as a "Staying healthy!" chem.

. I'm not sure if something stronger is needed or not. Probably not in the sleepers. Sleepers should have gaps in what they can heal. If you need more oomph cryo's a good choice.

[Bombadil]

The cook can make saline glucose.

Why is table salt and sugar water even healing people? It doesn't make any sense. I like the idea of it but it needs to be substantially nerfed.

Its supposed to be like how when someone gets majorly burned they get a saline solution to rehydrate them