Undoom TG Station Policy Pack

[Cosmodeus]

TL;DR

1. Remove the rule on banning players for "creepy behavior" unless an admin can make a good example as to why creepy behavior is being hastefully generalized. Either make woody got wood a bannable offense, or make posting stories like woody got wood in general, no matter how creepy it is, not bannable. You guys bring these creeps upon yourselves with that woody got wood copy pasta.

2. Make headmins power exclusive to specific servers and open up room for more headmins to have one headmin per server

3. Remove formatting requirements that get normal humans dismissed for posting messages Simon didn't say to post

4. Increase the number of strikes trial admins can receive to three strikes while decreasing the number of strikes other administrative positions can receive to one strike (proper training and higher standards)

5. Completely remove political discussion based rules across all channels and remove the political discussion channels. There's no reason a healthy community would need special snowflake echo chambers

6. Have a new administrative role specifically for doing bulk unbans and processing the bulk of the community for retroactive new rules, without giving them banning powers, but letting them overrule previous admin rulings with lesser sentences

Why TG Station is doomed

I believe this server is going to the shitters and it's now only a matter of time. As a predictable reply from some admemes or their metagamey buddies, I'm sure I will have little things cherry picked off me in reply, but in vein do you reply when I'm sounding an alarm. My observation started on an old ban pattern I saw on Manuel server, a server I never play on for obvious reasons. Manuel server is a server you go to if you want to get permanently banned from all servers and not just Manuel for accidentally calling someone a gamer in a game with a master cape you can get in character for being a gamer of the arcade machine that is also in character, of which the admins in Manuel state that it's out of character to do. This isn't a decision the admins make because it breaks a rule, but the decision admins make because it breaks their ideas of what is acceptable.

As someone who has previous experience in other communities being admin, moderator, and even server host a time or two, I can say with confidence that this is what happens when the admins have their own goals that they're putting above the server goals. The server goals are more important than the rules, and thus the method of rule enforcement has to be considered in order to keep it that way or else you get undesirable results in the long run. One of the largest factors of rule enforcement being made right now on EVERY SERVER including the discord is the internet version of Voltaire Quotes, "If you act stupid, you will attract real stupid people who think they're at home". If you dig through lots of the bans most recently, you'll see that a higher concentration of semantic bans are being made in which the banned player merely got banned for being non-disruptive, but instead, behaving in a way the admin merely didn't desire. This is obviously from my point of view a ban on people who the admin dislike personally for whatever reason that may be, as there's no other reason in the list of reasons I can deduce as to why someone gets banned for doing the same exact thing someone else does, but in some situations it doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure a large part of this new admin trend that's been happening on /TG/ station since a few months before the Trump versus Biden election largely has political ties to it, being that admins really tested the waters to see what they can get away with using the political discussion chat room on the discord.

Because you guys have made so many red tape rules against normal players, merely bringing this up risks all sorts of back lash against me by admins that know they can get away with deleting this, archived or not, because I merely "wasn't good for the community", of which I find myself a part of. The community in the admins mind being the admins personal opinions and not the general population, of which I'm sure admins banned more people or scared off more people combined than players who actually play on /TG/, so which portion of "the community" was made up by those who got banned from speaking merely because not following the rules on how to properly format a post wasn't met?

What can be done to stop server depopulation

Stop banning people for encouraged behavior. If you guys are going around saying the n-word and suddenly tomorrow you change the rules, you can't really expect to make an example by "PERMANENTLY BANNING" the player you're making an example of, instead of giving them a rational slap on the wrist. You guys are holding double standards way too much while yourself doing the same exact things as many of the people, if not worse thangs than, the people you're banning permanently from the server for personal behavior. Woody got wood is in fact a rule violation and needs to be enforced, but that doesn't mean you need to permanently remove someone from the server when the rule is being enforced. Just because you're admin with the power and temporary authority to do so, doesn't mean you can depopulate the community and rid it of people you dislike against the very health of the community that you yourself sit there and reposted woody got wood in. This isn't your local city ordinance law making meeting, this is something that involves people from all over the world, including influencers like Sseth and Onione. If it wasn't for them, you guys wouldn't even be as big as you are today.

Stop giving game masters admin powers throughout every /TG/ server and force headmins to specialize in specific server problems instead of all servers. THIS IS LITERALLY AGAINST MODERN PRACTICE IN INFORMATION SECURITY!!! You guys are asking for someone to completely exodia obliterate the entire community all at once. Separate powers is legit standard practice in corporate and information security. If you're a headmin that's against the idea, remember that it's not current headmins you have to worry about, it's future headmins. You guys probably have ticking time bombs right now trying to apply for role of headmin. Why are shitty admins still around? Why does it take them permanently removing three members of the community, maybe more, but at the very least three members of the community PERMANENTLY who literally didn't do shit against the rules, before you guys consider removing admins from their position, while some trial admins who literally copy and paste the same choices other admins made with rule enforcement consistency in their decisions ends up with a one strike and you're out?

Remove the freaking political discussions from the discord and ban political discussions in general until the admins learn to stop banning people over their opinions they have and purposely making political enemies with "completely normal people who have real world problems that create their political opinions" on a space game that doesn't have anything to do with how politics get influenced in real life. You guys clearly can't handle real world problems beyond the internet and it's literally causing very subtle server depopulation, no new players that actually stick around a long time are sticking around anymore to make new rememberable experiences, and lots of people likely feel like they're being cheated of the rules, which they are because admins are cherry picking.

Rant Time

This is a game with a feature called "Hosting your own server". There's zero reason you guys have been unable to accommodate large numbers of new players joining the server when things like Sseth wave occur, except for the fact that you don't want to admin a shit load of people at once to see how well they would do because you make vendettas with people you don't even know in real life and never even let them have a chance to admin unless they host a completely different server, which they won't do because the first impression of the community is shitty because you made it shitty by entrapping people into thinking they could act stupid like you guys who aren't acting. Are some of you literally getting paid to divide people or do you just do it because you literally think that it's a good idea make other peoples problems your own? So someone disagrees with you about their favorite ice cream. Does that means you need to go to an ice cream company known for making your favorite flavor and turning them on your side politically to make ice cream a political issue now? This is what you admins enforcing your own defacto rules are doing against the community. There's no benefit to it for you other than literally making people dislike you and less reasonable with you when they themselves get into the same position of authority. It's community suicide. Why the fuck is the word "ur" banned on all servers? You're and your are two forms of spelling that are semantically valid, but ur conveys the same exact message. Most of you admins make the same exact personal attacks on others that community members you ban make as well, even harassing people passive aggressively while being condescending and contemptuous despite you yourself being more repulsive as an individual. Even a psychopath wouldn't make half the choices I've seen made in this community because they want to fulfill an agenda or benefit themselves, but this is just making chaos. Perhaps for now everything seems nice and calm, but you guys are on the road to terrible things happening in such concentration that you guys are setting yourselves up for a community that will eventually die with a population of like three people left. I know because I've bare witnessed this happen in other communities I've been a part of, not that being admin, mod, or anything matters to YOU in terms of my experiences which other admins should note about your personality when you criticize me for what I'm saying.

Here's how it will happen. Someone will be made headmin that's currently an admin and they will end up mass banning everybody and probably removing service of all the servers while shredding backups until the community is no longer salvageable.

EDIT NOTES

Merged rule 7 with rule 1 since they where the same concept.

Changed the word "game master" to "other administrative positions" since people intentionally want to feign ignorance about this message.

[Cosmodeus]

You should probably really read the entire post though in all seriousness. I really do think that this servers about to implode. Look at the dates of the last accepted admin complaint the the concentration of the frequency of acceptance. They line up heavily with changes to headmins and so I'm really serious about that headmin rule I suggested.

[Misdoubtful]

1. Remove the rule on banning players for "creepy behavior" unless an admin can make a good example as to why creepy behavior is being hastefully generalized. Either make woody got wood a bannable offense, or make posting stories like woody got wood in general, no matter how creepy it is, not bannable. You guys bring these creeps upon yourselves with that woody got wood copy pasta.

If you wouldn't try and be funny about it in public with a stranger it's probably being a total absolute creep dude. Period. I'm not going to justify this for you, literally just look around you at the world. What are we, barbarians?

2. Make headmins power exclusive to specific servers and open up room for more headmins to have one headmin per server

What will this achieve?

3. Remove formatting requirements that get normal humans dismissed for posting messages Simon didn't say to post

This a lot easier than following instructions at the DMV. Surely? Everything comes with an instruction manual and this one makes appeals structured so they can easily understood, universally.

4. Increase the number of strikes trial admins can receive to three strikes while decreasing the number of strikes game masters can receive to one strike (proper training and higher standards)

Why? Do you know what a game master is? What benefit will this provide? What is the merit of this?

5. Completely remove political discussion based rules across all channels and remove the political discussion channels. There's no reason a healthy community would need special snowflake echo chambers

This one has actually been discussed in the past. People with extreme beliefs looking to spout their ideology don't care if it's banned. They'll find a way to inject it into things. At least this way it's contained.

6. Have a new administrative role specifically for doing bulk unbans and processing the bulk of the community for retroactive new rules, without giving them banning powers, but letting them overrule previous admin rulings with lesser sentences

I don't think anyone would be insane enough to want this role. That implies little ic administrative access. This isn't a job. It's a spessman game. I'll take this role willingly if YOU specifically pay me to.

[Cosmodeus]

you know how you're not the first person to be like "tgstation is doomed!!! it is dying!!" yet we consistently get more and more players everyday?
is it doomed or is it just not to your liking?

[Misdoubtful]

you know how you're not the first person to be like "tgstation is doomed!!! it is dying!!" yet we consistently get more and more players everyday?
is it doomed or is it just not to your liking?

Yes.

Step 1: Look on Reddit.
Step 2: Look at our public posted player stats.

[cSeal]

EDIT: You should probably really read the entire post though in all seriousness.

You wrote a tldr section, and then three ranty essays that didnt actually extrapolate on the meat of what you were suggesting as policy changes in the tldr section- if you want people to take your post seriously you should probably trim waaay down on your post and then provide arguments for your suggested changes, rather than wall post about doom and gloom and the end of tgstation as we know it

[Misdoubtful]

EDIT: You should probably really read the entire post though in all seriousness.

You wrote a tldr section, and then three ranty essays that didnt actually extrapolate on the meat of what you were suggesting as policy changes in the tldr section- if you want people to take your post seriously you should probably trim waaay down on your post and then provide arguments for your suggested changes, rather than wall post about doom and gloom and the end of tgstation as we know it

I know I certainly didn't read past the tldr conveniently placed at the top.

[Cosmodeus]

Step 1: Look on Reddit.
Step 2: Look at our public posted player stats.

>Reddit

https://subredditstats.com/r/SS13

Also you got me. Okay so SS13 isn't really dying afterall. I will, as someone of my pride, retract said statement for the time being. I will say its sub rank is a little unstable.

[Mothblocks]

the tg constitution of the modern era

[Timonk]

Posting a video of real irl people running for their lives for fun is neither a political opinion, nor the fault of game masters or anyone but yourself. Your ban is also not because of admin metacliques that aim to ban you because you didn't act how they want you to

Also I'm the first non (ex)admin to respond to this thread

[Stickymayhem]

My genuine response is that the reason you feel tgstation is doomed is because it has outgrown specifically you and your demographic and you didn't keep up.

You have been left behind. It's unfortunate, when I was an edgy 15 year old on 4chan over a decade ago I probably would have agreed with this post, but then I gained age and perspective and touched grass multiple times and became a functioning member of society.

There are other servers filled with neverneverlanders who will accept you. They are smaller because you're an anomaly and so are the people in those servers, and they collapse because those people don't know how to be a decent member of a functional community. Wish you all the best. Hope you eventually gain adulthood and return here ready to play with normal people.

[RaveRadbury]

!	Message from: RaveRadbury
	Handing out forum bans for any further shitposting in this thread.

[Cosmodeus]

My genuine response is that the reason you feel tgstation is doomed is because it has outgrown specifically you and your demographic and you didn't keep up.

You have been left behind. It's unfortunate, when I was an edgy 15 year old on 4chan over a decade ago I probably would have agreed with this post, but then I gained age and perspective and touched grass multiple times and became a functioning member of society.

There are other servers filled with neverneverlanders who will accept you. They are smaller because you're an anomaly and so are the people in those servers, and they collapse because those people don't know how to be a decent member of a functional community. Wish you all the best. Hope you eventually gain adulthood and return here ready to play with normal people.

Neverneverlanders? I mean I could host my own server, though I don't have the time to actually maintain it nor would I be able to get traction going in it because once again, time is a factor. If you took my post serious, maybe you would read the part where I stated I've previously played the role of admin and host. Where you come off being condescending toward people who are more tolerant to things you cringe at, I'm not quite sure, being that it's more of a disability to be unable to handle seeing things and not the other way around. This is what from my point of view happens when someone post something with substance, but puts the mechanisms people are a part of into question. Suddenly they feel attacked just for being a rule enforcer when rule suggestions are made that they themselves don't agree on, rather or not they have more or less experience than the individual suggesting. People step down when rules get changed or leave the community all together, though in this community I'm unaware of anybody stepping down for rule changes because maybe I haven't been around during those time frames. Your reply seems to be something I would expect from someone who was actually young and not someone with real world experiences or even administrative roles on any other game or server. Being edgy happens all the time in this community; In fact it's a part of the game itself to assassinate people and that nanotrasen is trying to maximize profits.

That brings me to one of my points I try to make in my original post where I stated that you guys are baiting people into creep posting by allowing woody got wood copy pasta. The very nature of something is copy pasted by others and they get punished for reflecting on something they've been exposed to in attempt to do what is actually HUMAN to do, "fit in", which you try to condescendingly say I'm not doing. Look at the people who are bottom rank trying to criticize my post I made in the same manner someone such as yourself is doing? Someone who tells misfortune for example to shut up? This is the behavior you're making the community reflect upon when you out in the open tell others things you should be telling them in private, and at least warning them WITHOUT punishing them. Remember that your behavior as an admin will further reflect on others until they manifest it in their own behavior to demean each other. People who greytide have to know how to do it without getting banned. Next thing you know, someone sees this behavior and thinks to themselves, "I can do that too". When they do, they get banned and don't understand the semantics of it, being that by the interpretation they had of the rules, they didn't do any more than what someone else may have done.

Maybe this community isn't dying, but it's sure growing a little slowly compared to other communities that aren't on byond and it's not the engine because this game has inspired games like stationeers and other remakes. You literally say in your post to my thread, though not explicitly, that I'm basically like a minority in my behavior and that therefore I don't belong here. A little prejudice don't you think?

[Hulkamania]

That brings me to one of my points I try to make in my original post where I stated that you guys are baiting people into creep posting by allowing woody got wood copy pasta. The very nature of something is copy pasted by others and they get punished for reflecting on something they've been exposed to in attempt to do what is actually HUMAN to do, "fit in", which you try to condescendingly say I'm not doing.

This is part of the reason there is a currently active policy discussion about removing WGW, and was a major motivating factor for me making the thread.

[Stickymayhem]

My genuine response is that the reason you feel tgstation is doomed is because it has outgrown specifically you and your demographic and you didn't keep up.

You have been left behind. It's unfortunate, when I was an edgy 15 year old on 4chan over a decade ago I probably would have agreed with this post, but then I gained age and perspective and touched grass multiple times and became a functioning member of society.

There are other servers filled with neverneverlanders who will accept you. They are smaller because you're an anomaly and so are the people in those servers, and they collapse because those people don't know how to be a decent member of a functional community. Wish you all the best. Hope you eventually gain adulthood and return here ready to play with normal people.

Neverneverlanders? I mean I could host my own server, though I don't have the time to actually maintain it nor would I be able to get traction going in it because once again, time is a factor. If you took my post serious, maybe you would read the part where I stated I've previously played the role of admin and host. Where you come off being condescending toward people who are more tolerant to things you cringe at, I'm not quite sure, being that it's more of a disability to be unable to handle seeing things and not the other way around. This is what from my point of view happens when someone post something with substance, but puts the mechanisms people are a part of into question. Suddenly they feel attacked just for being a rule enforcer when rule suggestions are made that they themselves don't agree on, rather or not they have more or less experience than the individual suggesting. People step down when rules get changed or leave the community all together, though in this community I'm unaware of anybody stepping down for rule changes because maybe I haven't been around during those time frames. Your reply seems to be something I would expect from someone who was actually young and not someone with real world experiences or even administrative roles on any other game or server. Being edgy happens all the time in this community; In fact it's a part of the game itself to assassinate people and that nanotrasen is trying to maximize profits.

That brings me to one of my points I try to make in my original post where I stated that you guys are baiting people into creep posting by allowing woody got wood copy pasta. The very nature of something is copy pasted by others and they get punished for reflecting on something they've been exposed to in attempt to do what is actually HUMAN to do, "fit in", which you try to condescendingly say I'm not doing. Look at the people who are bottom rank trying to criticize my post I made in the same manner someone such as yourself is doing? Someone who tells misfortune for example to shut up? This is the behavior you're making the community reflect upon when you out in the open tell others things you should be telling them in private, and at least warning them WITHOUT punishing them. Remember that your behavior as an admin will further reflect on others until they manifest it in their own behavior to demean each other. People who greytide have to know how to do it without getting banned. Next thing you know, someone sees this behavior and thinks to themselves, "I can do that too". When they do, they get banned and don't understand the semantics of it, being that by the interpretation they had of the rules, they didn't do any more than what someone else may have done.

Maybe this community isn't dying, but it's sure growing a little slowly compared to other communities that aren't on byond and it's not the engine because this game has inspired games like stationeers and other remakes. You literally say in your post to my thread, though not explicitly, that I'm basically like a minority in my behavior and that therefore I don't belong here. A little prejudice don't you think?

The fact that you think being an admin or host in a community means something significant kind of demonstrates the immaturity I'm talking about here. I ran a source community of around a thousand players when I was 13 to make money for video games instead of having a paper round. That's not a brag it's a testament to the worthlessness of the credential.

WGW is, like you, an outdated holdover from a previous era and should be removed.

You're the kind of edgelord that probably doesn't fit in anymore and keeps larger numbers of more mainstream players from our community with gatekeeping and superserious bureaucracy larping (and posting horrific images because it's cool to be a totally apathetic piece of shit)

[Cosmodeus]

This is part of the reason there is a currently active policy discussion about removing WGW, and was a major motivating factor for me making the thread.

I read your thread after making my thread and agree with your thread. I don't really browse policy suggestions as much as I would browse github pull requests, so that was a bit of an accident, though I didn't delete it because I really think that there's a lot of other things that fall under copy cat behavior which also need addressing. What is accepted as something people will copy really needs to be considered heavily, which is why I think politics should be removed and that discussion of politics should be removed as well.

EDITED to add reply to sticks

The fact that you think being an admin or host in a community means something significant kind of demonstrates the immaturity I'm talking about here. I ran a source community of around a thousand players when I was 13 to make money for video games instead of having a paper round. That's not a brag it's a testament to the worthlessness of the credential.

WGW is, like you, an outdated holdover from a previous era and should be removed.

You can dress up your nonsense all you want, but you're the exact kind of edgelord emotionally stunted manchild that probably doesn't fit in anymore and keeps larger numbers of more mainstream players from our community with gatekeeping and superserious bureaucracy larping

>WGW is, like you, an outdated holdover from a previous era and should be removed

This is an extremely intolerant reply. You're not even thinking anymore before you post.

>Keeps larger numbers of more mainstream players from out community with gatekeeping and superserious bureaucracy larping

Are you implying that you guys don't have formats for posts on the forums? Also you're the gatekeeper, not the other way around. You literally have banning powers and are trying to gatekeep me from the community (THE EDIT: by trying to say I should be removed). Your avatar is literally a snail with a police cap in the discussion of gatekeeping. Mainstream players are playing amongus and for the most part, they're more so copying funny enough, EDGY games like trouble in terrorist town. You have the largest elitist complex I've seen yet of anybody on pretty much the entire internet outside of real world politics itself.

EDIT NOTE: Have to correct how I write things so people don't pretend to misunderstand me.

[Rohen_Tahir]

Stop banning people for encouraged behavior. If you guys are going around saying the n-word and suddenly tomorrow you change the rules, you can't really expect to make an example by "PERMANENTLY BANNING" the player you're making an example of, instead of giving them a rational slap on the wrist.

Public permaban list:
https://tgstation13.org/tgdb/publicbans.php
Find us one example of someone actually getting permabanned solely for a single violation of rule 11, bans related to inappropriate ckeys don't count.

[Armhulen]

5. Completely remove political discussion based rules across all channels and remove the political discussion channels. There's no reason a healthy community would need special snowflake echo chambers

Remove the freaking political discussions from the discord and ban political discussions in general until the admins learn to stop banning people over their opinions they have and purposely making political enemies with "completely normal people who have real world problems that create their political opinions" on a space game that doesn't have anything to do with how politics get influenced in real life. You guys clearly can't handle real world problems beyond the internet and it's literally causing very subtle server depopulation, no new players that actually stick around a long time are sticking around anymore to make new rememberable experiences, and lots of people likely feel like they're being cheated of the rules, which they are because admins are cherry picking.

specifically these points i want to talk about

it's literally causing very subtle server depopulation

Do you really believe? There can't be more than 20-30 frequent posters in that channel, and that's my generous ballparking. I'm having a friend scrape the logs to fact check that, but there are 4,600 people in the discord and there is no way that channel reaches even 100 frequent posters. And how many players in the community as a whole don't participate in discord? It's a lot. A lot of them are not as entangled with the community as you and I are.

ban political discussions in general until the admins learn to stop banning people over their opinions they have

It sounds like there's a real misunderstanding between you and the overton window of politics containment, but (and this is entirely for the sake of giving a good idea where said window stands) you were never banned for anything you posted, and you and i both know your posts were very edgy. they were ALLOWED. you ended up getting banned in the end for something unrelated to politics, which we all know so i won't namedrop again



If you're not talking about your situation you should post a real example of someone else getting banned for their political beliefs and then we can discuss when the political posts crossed the line of unacceptability and if that line is in a good place. I'm not a discord mod so I have to report posts just like you do, and I haven't ever felt cheated, even when mods didn't agree with me

[Cosmodeus]

Public permaban list:
https://tgstation13.org/tgdb/publicbans.php
Find us one example of someone actually getting permabanned solely for a single violation of rule 11, bans related to inappropriate ckeys don't count.

This is a shit post. You're making rules as to how my own post SHOULD be seen instead of just the raw post for what it is. They have to have only a single violation of rule 11 and ckeys don't count? Ckeys aren't even the names of characters in the game and I would personally never see these unless I was an admin. Also there are rule 8 violations that also apply to what I'm talking about, not just rule 11, which you magically forget about when making up standards for my suggestion about standards.

EDIT: Armhulen should read the entire thread before posting copy pasta someone else already discussed with me. Also can you guys stop trying to disregard my thread as just my "emotional reaction" when I'm being more serious than the lot of you.

[Mothblocks]

Ckeys are seen in plenty of places. OOC is a big one.

[NoxVS]

This is a shit post. You're making rules as to how my own post SHOULD be seen instead of just the raw post for what it is. They have to have only a single violation of rule 11 and ckeys don't count? Ckeys aren't even the names of characters in the game and I would personally never see these unless I was an admin.

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/search/player

Put in a character name, get the associated ckey.
Put in a ckey, get the associated character name.

[Itseasytosee2me]

You should probably really read the entire post though in all seriousness. I really do think that this servers about to implode. Look at the dates of the last accepted admin complaint the the concentration of the frequency of acceptance. They line up heavily with changes to headmins and so I'm really serious about that headmin rule I suggested.

No thanks get the gist.
Also, it seems like TG station has been "doomed" for an awfully long while. You won't be able to conduct the train if you're not along for the ride.

[Cosmodeus]

No thanks get the gist.
Also, it seems like TG station has been "doomed" for an awfully long while. You won't be able to conduct the train if you're not along for the ride.

This isn't true. If I was to be a completely new member of the community and made a day one pull request, if it's good enough, it will get merged. All it takes is an idea that solves an existing problem, if the existing problem is realized, to get the ball rolling.

[TheFinalPotato]

Stop giving game masters admin powers throughout every /TG/ server and force headmins to specialize in specific server problems instead of all servers. THIS IS LITERALLY AGAINST MODERN PRACTICE IN INFORMATION SECURITY!!! You guys are asking for someone to completely exodia obliterate the entire community all at once. Separate powers is legit standard practice in corporate and information security. If you're a headmin that's against the idea, remember that it's not current headmins you have to worry about, it's future headmins. You guys probably have ticking time bombs right now trying to apply for role of headmin. Why are shitty admins still around? Why does it take them permanently removing three members of the community, maybe more, but at the very least three members of the community PERMANENTLY who literally didn't do shit against the rules, before you guys consider removing admins from their position, while some trial admins who literally copy and paste the same choices other admins made with rule enforcement consistency in their decisions ends up with a one strike and you're out?

I really think you have some misunderstanding about what a gamemaster is, but moving past that.
What do you mean by information security/exodia obliterate the community all at once? Are you talking about an admin just like banning literally all players or something?

[Cosmodeus]

I really think you have some misunderstanding about what a gamemaster is, but moving past that.
What do you mean by information security/exodia obliterate the community all at once? Are you talking about an admin just like banning literally all players or something?

Yes. Thank you for reading most of what I posted. I tried to correct my references to game master, being that I really meant everybody who isn't a trial admin. I've seen this happen to possibly at least seven communities I've partaken in, of which all of them used archaic "feel good" systems to decide rather or not someone should even get a chance to be a staff member, which this community heavily reflects that feel good system. Especially with people trying to impress certain members of the community that "just so happen to be of a higher status" and not just merely another person of the same rank, every single time, of which then that person decides they don't want to let others expectations down and shamed into doing whatever other people want to keep the feeling of being liked by the community that doesn't really like them, but likes their position or perceived social status. This mob mentality shit is what's going to lead to ultimately getting someone who exploits people who are easily susceptible to mob mentality to very easily climb their way up into the position that will give them access to server powers beyond merely controlling the round or the player base.

How it happens on every previous community I've been a part of-
-The community forms a mob mentality which begins attacking newer players that attract more attention then the attention seeking players who are "bottom fucking rank" and care about being accepted or "fitting in", which is pathetic as fuck and I feel zero sympathy for these low agency individuals
-Admins and possibly the host end up getting brown nosed so hard by people, they might actually like the feeling of everybody kissing their ass at once trying to raise their perceived pseudo intellectual importance. This causes the staff to get divided by the feeling of themselves, being admired by others, and makes their animal brain tell them they have to please others
-When this shit sticks around too long, it begins to creep into the higher ranks until it makes its way to the top of the ladder, at which point, the community is now primed for the destructive power vacuumed it just created on itself through ass kissers, mostly people who reply with negative comments to threads while never starting their own depending on what the "higher ranked" player, in this case the ranks you guys are using in the community, say in their opinions toward the post, hence the lack of agency these people have and why WGW is up for being scrapped at the moment
-"The Messiah" figure shows up as just a regular player who will be strangely "charismatic" in the community. This is a natural occurrence in communities like this where someone who is strangely likable seems to have cracked your code. They begin to manage to peer pressure intelligent people out of the community because intelligent people are their biggest threat. After this, they amongus up the ranks until they get access to as much shit as possible, even the donations if they can, or anything else
-Once they reach the peak that they can possibly reach, key word possibly, they then begin destroying the entire community as efficiently as they can order 66 style

This isn't really a conspiracy theory or conspiracy, but something that people just "naturally do" without being able to realize or admit to it, even the abstracted "Messiah" character I speak of.

[Stickymayhem]

I really think you have some misunderstanding about what a gamemaster is, but moving past that.
What do you mean by information security/exodia obliterate the community all at once? Are you talking about an admin just like banning literally all players or something?

Yes. Thank you for reading most of what I posted. I tried to correct my references to game master, being that I really meant everybody who isn't a trial admin. I've seen this happen to possibly at least seven communities I've partaken in, of which all of them used archaic "feel good" systems to decide rather or not someone should even get a chance to be a staff member, which this community heavily reflects that feel good system. Especially with people trying to impress certain members of the community that "just so happen to be of a higher status" and not just merely another person of the same rank, every single time, of which then that person decides they don't want to let others expectations down and shamed into doing whatever other people want to keep the feeling of being liked by the community that doesn't really like them, but likes their position or perceived social status. This mob mentality shit is what's going to lead to ultimately getting someone who exploits people who are easily susceptible to mob mentality to very easily climb their way up into the position that will give them access to server powers beyond merely controlling the round or the player base.

How it happens on every previous community I've been a part of-
-The community forms a mob mentality which begins attacking newer players that attract more attention then the attention seeking players who are "bottom fucking rank" and care about being accepted or "fitting in", which is pathetic as fuck and I feel zero sympathy for these low agency individuals
-Admins and possibly the host end up getting brown nosed so hard by people, they might actually like the feeling of everybody kissing their ass at once trying to raise their perceived pseudo intellectual importance. This causes the staff to get divided by the feeling of themselves, being admired by others, and makes their animal brain tell them they have to please others
-When this shit sticks around too long, it begins to creep into the higher ranks until it makes its way to the top of the ladder, at which point, the community is now primed for the destructive power vacuumed it just created on itself through ass kissers, mostly people who reply with negative comments to threads while never starting their own depending on what the "higher ranked" player, in this case the ranks you guys are using in the community, say in their opinions toward the post, hence the lack of agency these people have and why WGW is up for being scrapped at the moment
-"The Messiah" figure shows up as just a regular player who will be strangely "charismatic" in the community. This is a natural occurrence in communities like this where someone who is strangely likable seems to have cracked your code. They begin to manage to peer pressure intelligent people out of the community because intelligent people are their biggest threat. After this, they amongus up the ranks until they get access to as much shit as possible, even the donations if they can, or anything else
-Once they reach the peak that they can possibly reach, key word possibly, they then begin destroying the entire community as efficiently as they can order 66 style

This isn't really a conspiracy theory or conspiracy, but something that people just "naturally do" without being able to realize or admit to it, even the abstracted "Messiah" character I speak of.

This post increased my cthulhu mythos score please could you throw some names in so I know your perspective on which members of the community fit these platonic archetypes you've constructed in your grand enlightened theory of BYOND atmos simulator forum culture.

[EOBGames]

of which all of them used archaic "feel good" systems to decide rather or not someone should even get a chance to be a staff member, which this community heavily reflects that feel good system

So I've read over the rest of your posts and seemingly wasn't able to find an answer to this- what do you propose as an alternative to the present system of admin selection, which will, as you would say, contribute to undooming TG?

[NoxVS]

Why are shitty admins still around? Why does it take them permanently removing three members of the community, maybe more, but at the very least three members of the community PERMANENTLY who literally didn't do shit against the rules, before you guys consider removing admins from their position, while some trial admins who literally copy and paste the same choices other admins made with rule enforcement consistency in their decisions ends up with a one strike and you're out?

Where are you getting this from? There is no such thing as a three strike rule where a game master can just permaban 2 people and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. I’m not a gamemaster, because a gamemaster is just an admin that has been headadmin at some point, but if I just permabanned someone for absolutely no reason they can appeal it, it will be accepted pretty quickly because I have no reason, and headmins would probably yell at me for it. Admins have been deadmined for less, it wouldn’t be a surprise if I was deadmined for locking someone out of the server without a reason.

[sinfulbliss]

One point I agree with you on is the vagueness of Rule 8. The person who wrote rule 8 intended it simply to ban ERP, end of story. It has since been extended beyond that to ban anything that makes someone uncomfortable in-game, which is understandable. But it’s being stretched even further beyond that into banning for something that makes the observing admin feel uncomfortable; in other words, it doesn’t matter if the players in the game find X behavior creepy, it only matters if the observing admin finds it creepy in order to bwoink.

The policy is a bit too vague and could use clarification. Obviously you can’t fit every possible situation in it, but perhaps it could be reworded in such a way that doesn’t make it entirely subjective up to the observing admin.

[iksyp]

2. Make headmins power exclusive to specific servers and open up room for more headmins to have one headmin per server

This is the worst possible idea, at that point the community would literally be fractured 4 (5?) ways. You can say that it is now, but servers having different regional cultures isn't anywhere close to having different power structures and policy's for each server, it also makes swapping servers really annoying if I would have to parse which policy decisions are in effect on sybil that aren't on basil, for example

3. Remove formatting requirements that get normal humans dismissed for posting messages Simon didn't say to post

The formatting requirements are a basic intelligence filter, if someone doesn't follow formatting requirements, that means they didn't read the formatting section in the first place, they also likely haven't read the rules they broke in the first place.

[Cosmodeus]

The formatting requirements are a basic intelligence filter, if someone doesn't follow formatting requirements, that means they didn't read the formatting section in the first place, they also likely haven't read the rules they broke in the first place.

I can see why you have your opinion on rule two. Fracturing isn't a guarantee, but it's more so to separate the potential of a single admin mass abusing one day when they go through their mid-life crisis and realize they still live with their mother then decide to take it out on the internet; Many such cases.

As for the formatting requirement and rule reading, there should be a thread that spells it out labelled "formatting requirements" with the format in the first post. This isn't the case for some things in the forum. I'm not exclusively writing about ban appeals, so don't assume that. To add to things, every rule to the server isn't even in the same thread, but instead, scattered around in bread crumbs. I remember orange getting onto me for making a goon station suggestion that was considered goon merely for the fact that it obfuscated information from newer members of the community, which is what is being done here with the formatting requirements. I've even heard an admin mention something that leads me to believe they might not even know they themselves have some level of accountability for their decisions.

The idea of removing formatting requirements all together perhaps might not be a good idea, but to shorten the formatting requirements or to at least update this forum to have the autoformat feature on it, which other forums have, when making the thread to begin with.

EDIT:

One point I agree with you on is the vagueness of Rule 8. The person who wrote rule 8 intended it simply to ban ERP, end of story. It has since been extended beyond that to ban anything that makes someone uncomfortable in-game, which is understandable. But it’s being stretched even further beyond that into banning for something that makes the observing admin feel uncomfortable; in other words, it doesn’t matter if the players in the game find X behavior creepy, it only matters if the observing admin finds it creepy in order to bwoink.

The policy is a bit too vague and could use clarification. Obviously you can’t fit every possible situation in it, but perhaps it could be reworded in such a way that doesn’t make it entirely subjective up to the observing admin.

Thank you for the serious reply. Pretty much hitting the head of the nail with the hammer. Wesoda actually gave me a note because I copy pasted lyrics from an Oingo Boingo song and remained adamant about the idea that it was creepy and therefore I should be noted for posting it. I tried to point out that woody got wood is actually creepier, but that just went over his head.

[Cobby]

1. Remove the rule on banning players for "creepy behavior" unless an admin can make a good example as to why creepy behavior is being hastefully generalized. Either make woody got wood a bannable offense, or make posting stories like woody got wood in general, no matter how creepy it is, not bannable. You guys bring these creeps upon yourselves with that woody got wood copy pasta.

There needs to be some guidelines around rule 8 to which at what point your personal offense no longer takes precedence or we just flat out say sexually charged content is disallowed.

An example would be me saying cum ingame to a person I know, the other guy laughs about it, and then theres a ghost/admin who finds using the word weird/sexually charged and i catch a pm.

If we have this line in the sand we need to stop giving leeway to the more "is that really needed" cases of enforcement and tell them, being the person reporting it, to stop being prude at least on an ahelpable level.

Seeing some of the admin discussions, I think people are overlaying being creepy/sexual with low-ball humor they personally dont want on the server which is not what the rule exists for as written.

2. Make headmins power exclusive to specific servers and open up room for more headmins to have one headmin per server

No, I dont even agree with headmins separate from M/L RP. If you dont think a person is sensible enough to know the rules of both servers (the overlap is literally 1:1 with one server having ADDITIONAL rules that are fairly straight-forward) then stop voting for them. This is especially important for MRP because it tempers the HRP end which I dont think would be true if MRP was given its personal collection, and as someone who tends to speak towards the fact that MRP got a lot of push to begin with because we simply didnt want to be murderboned constantly but admins at the time pussyfooted around it, I dont want it to displace those individuals.

3. Remove formatting requirements that get normal humans dismissed for posting messages Simon didn't say to post

cope? If possible a format section would be better in the sense you basically filled out the form when generating a new post but like if you are so clouded in your judgement you cant be bothered to read the first post of appeals its probably not a good time to be appealing.

4. Increase the number of strikes trial admins can receive to three strikes while decreasing the number of strikes other administrative positions can receive to one strike (proper training and higher standards)

What does this mean there is no strike system. It depends on the offense on top of your history the same way a player might be looked at for breaking a rule, there are no hard and fast strikes.

5. Completely remove political discussion based rules across all channels and remove the political discussion channels. There's no reason a healthy community would need special snowflake echo chambers

Based. People come to SS13 to get away from life so why people try to shoehorn political discussions when it has historically done nothing but cause issues (some even at the behest of admins). Political discussion on tg has not influenced any legislative branch to my knowledge.

The only somewhat sensible argument for it is we can moderate it but i dont recall any of us being qualified to moderate political speech nor do I find it too good of an argument because if im a nazi and i get banned from TG but I want to continue talking to people about nazi topics I can just invite my political-bros to my own server and we can have less moderated speech in there and nothing really changes compared to not letting people go on political diatribes in the first place.

6. Have a new administrative role specifically for doing bulk unbans and processing the bulk of the community for retroactive new rules, without giving them banning powers, but letting them overrule previous admin rulings with lesser sentences

Uh the banning admins know the situation best so i would be absolutely against braindead overruling them with no requirement to ensure they are aware or are ok with the unbanning, in which case we already have a process called ban appeals.

There is not a scenario where we needed mass unbanning, and if a rule changes to a different tolerance level that doesnt mean you were in the right to do it previously (especially if the level of being acceptable is publicly viewable).

[Cobby]

Also why are you doomposting as an account that joined on sept of this year as well as first connected?

Genuinely curious how you can derive a pattern that leads you to believe the collapse of the community from a sample size of what 2 months for a community that has lasted for what, at *least* 5 years?

If you have particular gripes about specific situations the passive "all is doomed" esque posting is markedly unhelpful and in fact harmful if you consider we now have to entertain this thread and that gets us nowhere except generic platitudes of saving the "dying" server compared to if you just brought up your actual issue directly and it gets reviewed and you move on.

I can respect wanting to contribute to the community but this is certainly not the way to go about it imo.

[iksyp]

As for the formatting requirement and rule reading, there should be a thread that spells it out labelled "formatting requirements" with the format in the first post. This isn't the case for some things in the forum. I'm not exclusively writing about ban appeals, so don't assume that.

I legitimately can't think of anything outside of FNR that requires formatting, and both admin complaints as well as ban appeals have the formatting in the top stickied post, which say (READ BEFORE POSTING). The other two boards don't even have formatting requirements, and there is a GIANT RED BANNER at the top of each FNR page which says "Read these board rules before posting or you'll get reprimanded."

The reason I assumed ban appeals by default is because that's the most common board where people get yelled at for not formatting properly.

To add to things, every rule to the server isn't even in the same thread, but instead, scattered around in bread crumbs.

Every main rule of the server, silicon policy, escalation policy, security policy, discord rules, lavaland role rules, the specific rules for the roleplay server, precedents and exceptions towards each of the main rules, and a link to every headmin ruling is on the wiki page, which, while I never read any of this until now (even when I did actually play the game, since the rules of any multiplayer RPG with admin intervention are largely the same), seems pretty consolidated to me.
This isn't even hidden, since I'm pretty sure people are linked directly to this page whenever they log on with a big red block of text that says "READ THE RULES FIRST" or something to that effect.

[Stickymayhem]

Also why are you doomposting as an account that joined on sept of this year as well as first connected?

Genuinely curious how you can derive a pattern that leads you to believe the collapse of the community from a sample size of what 2 months for a community that has lasted for what, at *least* 5 years?

If you have particular gripes about specific situations the passive "all is doomed" esque posting is markedly unhelpful and in fact harmful if you consider we now have to entertain this thread and that gets us nowhere except generic platitudes of saving the "dying" server compared to if you just brought up your actual issue directly and it gets reviewed and you move on.

I can respect wanting to contribute to the community but this is certainly not the way to go about it imo.

You already know why they're acting like a boomer with a lot to say and complain about after suddenly appearing with "no history".

[Cosmodeus]

I'm pretty sure I mentioned before that I've been here before and got locked out of my old byond account because I don't have the password or username. I don't live in the same house and in fact, my internet isn't the same IP every day, though the IP isn't dynamic. This is because my real life job has me doing all this away from home and when I get time off, I'm still away from home. Right now I got time off. I don't play for a long period of time. My old account actually has like two antag tokens I never used. Yes, I DID in fact mention this before that I am in fact a new account of another account that had an almost clean record. The only thing I got in trouble for ever was killing the AI because it metagrudge refused to open my law two order.

Also I took the time to read what you had to say and should note that my suggestions are really meant to prevent admins from punishing players for what seems like arbitrary things to me, which is why I made those suggestions. Every suggestion for the most part isn't calling for the removal of players, but more so for the increase of standards from admins.

EDIT: I remember there was a one strike and trial admins are out system back in the day. I'm pretty sure that was this server. As for the three strike system for admins above them, I figured that was how it was.

[TheFinalPotato]

Yes. Thank you for reading most of what I posted. I tried to correct my references to game master, being that I really meant everybody who isn't a trial admin. I've seen this happen to possibly at least seven communities I've partaken in, of which all of them used archaic "feel good" systems to decide rather or not someone should even get a chance to be a staff member, which this community heavily reflects that feel good system. Especially with people trying to impress certain members of the community that "just so happen to be of a higher status" and not just merely another person of the same rank, every single time, of which then that person decides they don't want to let others expectations down and shamed into doing whatever other people want to keep the feeling of being liked by the community that doesn't really like them, but likes their position or perceived social status. This mob mentality shit is what's going to lead to ultimately getting someone who exploits people who are easily susceptible to mob mentality to very easily climb their way up into the position that will give them access to server powers beyond merely controlling the round or the player base.

How it happens on every previous community I've been a part of-
-The community forms a mob mentality which begins attacking newer players that attract more attention then the attention seeking players who are "bottom fucking rank" and care about being accepted or "fitting in", which is pathetic as fuck and I feel zero sympathy for these low agency individuals
-Admins and possibly the host end up getting brown nosed so hard by people, they might actually like the feeling of everybody kissing their ass at once trying to raise their perceived pseudo intellectual importance. This causes the staff to get divided by the feeling of themselves, being admired by others, and makes their animal brain tell them they have to please others
-When this shit sticks around too long, it begins to creep into the higher ranks until it makes its way to the top of the ladder, at which point, the community is now primed for the destructive power vacuumed it just created on itself through ass kissers, mostly people who reply with negative comments to threads while never starting their own depending on what the "higher ranked" player, in this case the ranks you guys are using in the community, say in their opinions toward the post, hence the lack of agency these people have and why WGW is up for being scrapped at the moment

I've seen the trialmin process, it doesn't seem that suckup vulnerable. What particularly makes you think it's an issue?
It's also a bit on the face silly to me to assert that people will agree with users with fancy roles, I've made enough controversial changes for that to just fall flat. At least assuming this community is only filled with asskissers.

-"The Messiah" figure shows up as just a regular player who will be strangely "charismatic" in the community. This is a natural occurrence in communities like this where someone who is strangely likable seems to have cracked your code. They begin to manage to peer pressure intelligent people out of the community because intelligent people are their biggest threat. After this, they amongus up the ranks until they get access to as much shit as possible, even the donations if they can, or anything else
-Once they reach the peak that they can possibly reach, key word possibly, they then begin destroying the entire community as efficiently as they can order 66 style

This isn't really a conspiracy theory or conspiracy, but something that people just "naturally do" without being able to realize or admit to it, even the abstracted "Messiah" character I speak of.

What you're describing here isn't actually feasible, donations especially. The only person with access to that is the host, and if MSO keels over this server's already dead.
I'm also not sure what destroying the community would actually be, just like banning a bunch of people? Or moving the needle on what the community standards are? What does order 66 style mean?

[Mothblocks]

Fracturing isn't a guarantee, but it's more so to separate the potential of a single admin mass abusing one day when they go through their mid-life crisis and realize they still live with their mother then decide to take it out on the internet; Many such cases.

What do these have to do with each other? How would separate head admins prevent that? What powers do you think a lone head admin has in the current system? What do you think they would do if they started "mass abusing one day"?

[XivilaiAnaxes]

-"The Messiah" figure shows up as just a regular player who will be strangely "charismatic" in the community. This is a natural occurrence in communities like this where someone who is strangely likable seems to have cracked your code. They begin to manage to peer pressure intelligent people out of the community because intelligent people are their biggest threat. After this, they amongus up the ranks until they get access to as much shit as possible, even the donations if they can, or anything else
-Once they reach the peak that they can possibly reach, key word possibly, they then begin destroying the entire community as efficiently as they can order 66 style

Did you just seriously apply great man theory to a fucking SS13 server?

Girl anybody as clever enough to come up with a plan to grind out enough reputation to torpedo a server they hate will invariably have better things to do than torpedo said SS13 server.

If you were even half as knowledgeable about security as you think you are, you would know security is a cost-benefit game.

[oranges]

-"The Messiah" figure shows up as just a regular player who will be strangely "charismatic" in the community. This is a natural occurrence in communities like this where someone who is strangely likable seems to have cracked your code. They begin to manage to peer pressure intelligent people out of the community because intelligent people are their biggest threat. After this, they amongus up the ranks until they get access to as much shit as possible, even the donations if they can, or anything else
-Once they reach the peak that they can possibly reach, key word possibly, they then begin destroying the entire community as efficiently as they can order 66 style

Did you just seriously apply great man theory to a fucking SS13 server?

Girl anybody as clever enough to come up with a plan to grind out enough reputation to torpedo a server they hate will invariably have better things to do than torpedo said SS13 server.

If you were even half as knowledgeable about security as you think you are, you would know security is a cost-benefit game.

face it, we all know this is referring to me and I'm dangerously close to succeeding.

[Jonathan Gupta]

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This whole situation seems to be a bad idea, rule 8 seems to be fine right now unless there is a total revision of rule 8 I don't see a problem with it.

[Cosmodeus]

I'm also not sure what destroying the community would actually be, just like banning a bunch of people? Or moving the needle on what the community standards are? What does order 66 style mean?

I've mentioned in this thread already, I'm sure, that when headmin step down, the frequency of peoples admin complaints being approved decreases. This should be obvious why, as there's not a ton of headmins and they're not all the same in their judgement, possibly very much not the same in their judgement in almost every way that counts toward who gets in trouble in a dispute. The current headmins are being very graceful to admins below them. Right now, there's a large portion of the community that wouldn't really care much for things that have zero effect on them other then the player population suddenly dropping and having nobody to really play with. This is what I mean. A new headmin doesn't just mean that it's merely someone else's turn to do the same thing for someone else, but instead, a new headmin WILL do things different. Right now, other than the admins that fell through the cracks and are somehow still admins yet never do anything at all ever and just sit around shit posting and starting flame wars or trying to convince others to hate whoever they feel like hating, most admins are actually pretty good quality when it comes to in game judgements.

Did you just seriously apply great man theory to a fucking SS13 server?

Girl anybody as clever enough to come up with a plan to grind out enough reputation to torpedo a server they hate will invariably have better things to do than torpedo said SS13 server.

If you were even half as knowledgeable about security as you think you are, you would know security is a cost-benefit game.

I didn't know great man theory was a thing. I'm just stating my observations from other communities that have this effect happen that I've been a part of, such as gmod, eve online, fucking world of warcraft guild, albion online, furcadia(don't judge me), runescape clans, minecraft, other byond games, tf2 community servers, ect. People who do this "Messiah" thing DO in fact do it and quite a bit, as I've bare witnessed. They don't do it because they're ambitious. They do it because it's funny to them and makes them feel good at others expense. I know, because I myself have done it.

This whole situation seems to be a bad idea, rule 8 seems to be fine right now unless there is a total revision of rule 8 I don't see a problem with it.

There are admins that literally do nothing positive for the community except try to use slippery slopes, cherry picks, and other fallacies you would learn about in an introduction to philosophy class or debate, things which literally mean your argument isn't logical, and they use it to get rid of people at the drop of a hat if they don't like them. These admins make up a small number which normally are seen frequenting the infamous political on topic chat room nearly every single day they can. There are admins who don't care that you weren't really being creepy, but instead where literally quoting a song that already exists in real life in order to try to make others cringe for the same reason people post woody got wood, and they will ban you for it permanently. This is some goon station shit where you guys want to get rid of people for behaving as themselves and decide arbitrarily like some US judge, who is creepy and who isn't already.

[wesoda25]

While intent is something we factor in, it is not what we are chiefly concerned about with rule 8. First and foremost we want our servers to be a comfortable and fun environment, and cutting out behavior which creeps others out is part of that. The rule is left intentionally vague so that it doesn't cage our approach into that of a certain time period, rule 8 is flexible to reflect the changing and evolving views people have on the matter. Headmins are expected to define and control the teams approach and vision, which they do.

And since you've been referencing it so much - I told you not to call the shuttle with the reason: "I-I-I love little girls. They make me feel so good. I love... Little girls. They make me feel so bad. When I'm around they make me feel like I'm the only guy in town. I love... Little girls they make me feel so good." This is not only forcefully displayed to everyone on the server, but if it were to go through, also people on all the other servers. The fact that you didn't mean bad by it is good - had you intended to creep others out I would have probably done more than just asking you not to do this sort of stuff again.

[NoxVS]

There are admins that literally do nothing positive for the community except try to use slippery slopes, cherry picks, and other fallacies you would learn about in an introduction to philosophy class or debate, things which literally mean your argument isn't logical, and they use it to get rid of people at the drop of a hat if they don't like them. These admins make up a small number which normally are seen frequenting the infamous political on topic chat room nearly every single day they can. There are admins who don't care that you weren't really being creepy, but instead where literally quoting a song that already exists in real life in order to try to make others cringe for the same reason people post woody got wood, and they will ban you for it permanently. This is some goon station shit where you guys want to get rid of people for behaving as themselves and decide arbitrarily like some US judge, who is creepy and who isn't already.

Please make an admin complaint for those admins. We have systems in place to get rid of those admins that "literally do nothing positive for the community". If those admins truly exist and you have proof then you could really improve the community by opening up a complaint against them.

And before you make this rebuttal, no, I do not consider an admin that bans people for posting a video of people burning to death as one of the admins that does "nothing positive for the community"

[Timonk]

There are admins that literally do nothing positive for the community except try to use slippery slopes, cherry picks, and other fallacies you would learn about in an introduction to philosophy class or debate, things which literally mean your argument isn't logical, and they use it to get rid of people at the drop of a hat if they don't like them. These admins make up a small number which normally are seen frequenting the infamous political on topic chat room nearly every single day they can. There are admins who don't care that you weren't really being creepy, but instead where literally quoting a song that already exists in real life in order to try to make others cringe for the same reason people post woody got wood, and they will ban you for it permanently. This is some goon station shit where you guys want to get rid of people for behaving as themselves and decide arbitrarily like some US judge, who is creepy and who isn't already.

Please make an admin complaint for those admins. We have systems in place to get rid of those admins that "literally do nothing positive for the community". If those admins truly exist and you have proof then you could really improve the community by opening up a complaint against them.

And before you make this rebuttal, no, I do not consider an admin that bans people for posting a video of people burning to death as one of the admins that does "nothing positive for the community"

There were no people burning to death, just people running for their lives

[Mothblocks]

If you want honest feedback, this entire post reads more like a headmin campaign than a policy discussion.

You will want to split all your points into other threads. Right now, what kind of response are you expecting head admins to be able to give?

[Cosmodeus]

There were no people burning to death, just people running for their lives

This :^)

If you want honest feedback, this entire post reads more like a headmin campaign than a policy discussion.

You will want to split all your points into other threads. Right now, what kind of response are you expecting head admins to be able to give?

I believe I've mentioned it earlier in the thread. I can agree the community isn't "dying", but I do think that this shouldn't devaluate people to the point where so many people can get banned at the drop of a dime.

Someone actually round removes other players in a terrible way and wasn't antagonist? I agree with this ban. Someone ban baits another player? I agree with this ban. Someone converts or round removes someone from shuttle? I agree with this ban. Someone draws an image of things in the art room or library that isn't very appropriate because specifically of its sexual nature? I agree with this ban. Someone draws an image of something political in the art room or library and it's labelled as "too soon" or "makes people uncomfortable? I don't agree with this ban. If someone brings up anything that involves nothing sexual in nature that is explicit, and I'm not talking about contemporary art, then the only time they should be banned is if they're trying to harass people personally. I even think people who get mad in the game shouldn't be banned just for being mad and expressing themselves to someone being condescending and contemptuous toward them at that moment in an ahelp and people need more time to reply to ahelps before just being outright banned for not replying to ahelps.

You guys probably banned pewdiepie and don't even know it.

[wesoda25]

You didn’t actually address what mothblocks said there. The OP of this thread lists off 6 different points, and what you talked about seems to only share something in common with the first and fifth. The original scale of this thread is massive and unreasonable to be a single post in policy, if you disagree with administrative approach for various situations you should make a thread specifically about those. If you’ve changed the goal of this thread then update the OP accordingly.

[Mothblocks]

Yeah none of your response seemed to, actually be a reply to me.

[TheFinalPotato]

I'm also not sure what destroying the community would actually be, just like banning a bunch of people? Or moving the needle on what the community standards are? What does order 66 style mean?

I've mentioned in this thread already, I'm sure, that when headmin step down, the frequency of peoples admin complaints being approved decreases. This should be obvious why, as there's not a ton of headmins and they're not all the same in their judgement, possibly very much not the same in their judgement in almost every way that counts toward who gets in trouble in a dispute. The current headmins are being very graceful to admins below them. Right now, there's a large portion of the community that wouldn't really care much for things that have zero effect on them other then the player population suddenly dropping and having nobody to really play with. This is what I mean. A new headmin doesn't just mean that it's merely someone else's turn to do the same thing for someone else, but instead, a new headmin WILL do things different. Right now, other than the admins that fell through the cracks and are somehow still admins yet never do anything at all ever and just sit around shit posting and starting flame wars or trying to convince others to hate whoever they feel like hating, most admins are actually pretty good quality when it comes to in game judgements.

How does having a headmin per server change this? Elections aside (Jesus campbell only election, JESUS what would you do about host/admin vote) you still have a group of probably admins getting replaced every 6 months. What would actually change if your proposal was implemented?