Do ash walkers have, like, any rights?

[confused rock]

The post title is the only part you really need to read as that's the important part

entirely related to a situation I had on manuel
as security, had a borg bring a fucking ash walker with a cleaving saw onto the station. brought it up to rest of sec and moved to cuff it. Another ash walker wearing full bone armor with an axe teleports to the previous ash walker and I conclude that no, they are not friendly, these are savages with no sense of loyalty and this was a trick to get the armored one onto the station. I scare one of them off the station, it flees to the mining shuttle. I let the borg take the other one back to lavaland.
(An admin) was angry and actually scolded me and that "you dont have to go unga on them on sight immediately if you see the valid walking around on station"
While this is not at all what I did, would that have actually been wrong? I didn't even harm either of the ash walkers but why shouldn't I be able to do so?
Why should ash walkers be allowed to go onto the station? it's bad roleplay on their part and seems more like an excuse to get a free respawn out of lavaland.

[wesoda25]

ashwalker thread 84 oh boy

[oranges]

Do african americans have, like, any rights?

[Jack7D1]

Hi! That was me as the borg, it was in fact my AI shell.
I had actually talked extensively with the ashie on the mining base after they kinda wandered in.
I was unaware of their cleaving saw and never would have considered that an ashwalker with have megafauna loot of any sort, like cubes.
Before going up I made them promise to be nice and was going to show them around like a tourist. However a security guard started screaming about how if he's friendly he'll go back down, which is kinda out of place, especially for a lizard sec.
The ashie was under the careful watch of me and two seccies, and I had intention of just showing them around before bringing them back down to lavaland. As I was about to politely and gently bring the ashwalker back down to lavaland the lizard sec ran up and stunned the ashie, and then as I was rushing them back to lavaland I was promptly carded (for unrelated validhunter reasons). I'm glad however that I was able to successfully escort them back to lavaland and reach a peaceful conclusion, with no violence.
It's worth noting that i was prepared to kill the ashie the instant he started trying to hurt people, since he was flash vulnerable. So calling this anything but under control would be false.

[cybersaber101]

Reminder that ash walkers have a lot on leniency and can kill whomever on sight for any reason. It's equivalent to spotting a nightmare, there's no reason not to kill on sight.

[Jack7D1]

That seems a little metagamey though. You shouldn't judge someone by the rules that restrict them.

[cybersaber101]

attacking a nightmare or an armed ashwalker, is like attacking a man in a syndicate hardsuit(sec would easier identify them). I assume they are all given a briefing(even a short one) on potential threats. its why when you see a blob or a xenomorph you go "oh shit, something dangerous"

[Jack7D1]

Blobs and xenomorphs are invariably hostile (special cases apply for xenos but whatever). Whereas things like ashies are actually sentient creatures who can have a will of their own besides wordless murder. Just like real world natives you can have hostile and friendly tribes. Dont assume hostile just to be safe cause that's lame and uncool.
Don't get me wrong if they start doing or threatening the harmies by all means give them the trouble they're looking for.

[Flatulent]

ashies have a big fucking red voice in their heads telling them to kill people

[BeeSting12]

Please name and shame the admin.

Roleplay- act out or perform the part of a person or character

Ash walkers were failing at playing their character (primitive worshippers of a body eating blood god) by not attacking the station or negotiating with the station to get bodies for the Necropolis (unless their attempt to board the station actually was an elaborate ruse to get bodies, in which case they did well).

The sec officer (you) was actually playing a character (corporate security for a plasma research station) by getting rid of the sentient and hostile wildlife from hellplanet.

The AI facilitated an interesting situation by bringing the ash walkers onboard. Debatable if that's playing a realistic silicon character, but I think that bit can be overlooked since it created an interesting conflict (theoretically the point of ss13).

I'd be interested in getting the admin's logic on this before making a real judgement, but as far as I can tell best case scenario everyone was playing their characters and it created an interesting conflict, worst case scenario the ash walkers were using the ghost role as a second respawn and got mad about being shooed off station. Friendly ash walker is not a gimmick and those who attempt it should be ghost role banned. Overall seems like admins waving their dick around where they shouldn't though.

[Vekter]

The only thing that I remember anything like this was another admin practicing on killing megas, then giving all of the loot to the ashwalkers. This was going to be an actual event, where the crew was warned like five minutes before they stormed the station, but there ended up being a singuloose and we never really got to do it.

[cacogen]

people should be allowed to attack the station as ash walkers or to try to be a peaceful ash walker if they want. similarly people should be allowed to attack them on sight

[XDTM]

Friendly ash walker is not a gimmick and those who attempt it should be ghost role banned.

This interaction kinda makes me with this wasn't the case, it prevents this kind of situation in favor of more deathmatch gameplay.

[confused rock]

Beesting I'd love to name and shame them but "Beesting told me to" isn't a good enough reason if they care at all they'll come here to take initiative themselves and say why we're both retards or something

[wesoda25]

That seems a little metagamey though. You shouldn't judge someone by the rules that restrict them.

"Guys, what if the nuke ops are NICE?! Guys, stop shooting, we shouldn't judge them just because they exist to kill us!"

[zxaber]

Friendly ash walker is not a gimmick and those who attempt it should be ghost role banned.

This interaction kinda makes me with this wasn't the case, it prevents this kind of situation in favor of more deathmatch gameplay.

Nothing actually says the ash walkers have to kill anyone. Their goal is more bodies for the nest, and killing the crew is a possible path to that goal. But there's nothing rule-breaking about ash walkers posing as door-to-door salesmen to infiltrate the station and raid the morgue.

The fact that people generally use ash walkers to kill actually plays out in service of roleplay with them, since the crew will generally have good reason both IC and OOC to not trust "friendly" lava lizards.

[saprasam]

if black people shouldn't be allowed to have rights in the eyes of people why should ashliggers
just kill them lol

[cacogen]

That seems a little metagamey though. You shouldn't judge someone by the rules that restrict them.

"Guys, what if the nuke ops are NICE?! Guys, stop shooting, we shouldn't judge them just because they exist to kill us!"

i haven't played ass walker in awhile did some code auteur make it so they can't be friendly towards humans anymore

Do african americans have, like, any rights?

unironically what did he mean by this

[wesoda25]

idk but on their purpose endangers humans and they are a threat. I have no problem with an ash walker being nice to humans (so long as they get sacrifices) - but to expect everyone on the station to play along is ridiculous

[Tlaltecuhtli]

no

[BONERMASTER]

fuck em

[NecromancerAnne]

Friendly ash walker is not a gimmick and those who attempt it should be ghost role banned.

Not everything needs to be blown to smithereens you know. The game is a roleplay game, and I feel like ashwalkers being forced to be violent kills off a lot of nuance. Attempting neutrality and that failing because of that potential validness being acted upon is a lot better than outright banning anyone attempting to use the fucking talk key.

I don't know shit about what happened with rock but I don't care honestly and it seems like it was mostly the game working as intended. Neither party should be forced to react to each other in a specific way, just that there is a established hostility between the ashwalkers and the station. That way, if there is the possibility of it going either way, it becomes more interesting how things play out. Maybe there is peace. Maybe there isn't. That's the fun bit.

[Cobby]

Reminder that ashwalkers are an opt in role.

If you do not like the idea of being AT BEST manipulative to get the bodies, at worse a blood-lusting killer, you should probably take on a different role than the tribal lizard meant to do whatever it takes to sacrifice bodies to the tendy.

If you play friendly ashie to mean you have no interest of obtaining bodies but want to be cute on the station, you are not really role playing but just using the excuse of “playing the role differently” to second life.

[Qustinnus]

can we remove lavaland already

[trollbreeder]

can we remove lavaland already

and replace it with what

[wesoda25]

asteroid

[Fikou]

nothing, make miners just people with guns on station

[Ayy Lemoh]

nothing, make miners just people with guns on station

miners are just americans

[Qbopper]

can we remove lavaland already

and replace it with what

nothing because ghost roles and mining pull people away from the actual round but they're too popular to die

[confused rock]

can we remove lavaland already

and replace it with what

nothing because ghost roles and mining pull people away from the actual round but they're too popular to die

edit: oh my god I had a round where friendly ash walkers announced their presence to the station while also insulting me specifically when they had to reason to know I exist I am being metagrudged by ash walkers trying to use a free respawn for me kicking them off the station, not even fucking killing them like the crew has full right to my god these people are insufferable

[cacogen]

>ghost roles pull dead people away from the round

[XivilaiAnaxes]

I remember hearing about a guy whose gimmick was to play ash-walker just to sneak onto the station as an undocumented immigrant janitor. I thought it was pretty hilarious and almost tempted me to try doing just that.

Banning friendly lizards is pretty dumb unless they're specifically working against other ash walkers.

[angelstarri]

no

[BeeSting12]

Friendly ash walker is not a gimmick and those who attempt it should be ghost role banned.

Not everything needs to be blown to smithereens you know. The game is a roleplay game, and I feel like ashwalkers being forced to be violent kills off a lot of nuance. Attempting neutrality and that failing because of that potential validness being acted upon is a lot better than outright banning anyone attempting to use the fucking talk key.

I don't know shit about what happened with rock but I don't care honestly and it seems like it was mostly the game working as intended. Neither party should be forced to react to each other in a specific way, just that there is a established hostility between the ashwalkers and the station. That way, if there is the possibility of it going either way, it becomes more interesting how things play out. Maybe there is peace. Maybe there isn't. That's the fun bit.

If you had read the remainder of my post you would've seen that I meant friendly as in full on friendly, no intentions of gaining bodies. Either way the admin in rock's story was circumventing exactly what you said. The game was working as intended until the admin yelled at rock for choosing one of his many options.

[TheMidnghtRose]

The only thing that I remember anything like this was another admin practicing on killing megas, then giving all of the loot to the ashwalkers. This was going to be an actual event, where the crew was warned like five minutes before they stormed the station, but there ended up being a singuloose and we never really got to do it.

I think the round you are referencing was a round where nothing was happening on station, I believe a sextended round, and the ash walkers had slight power, me and another admin decided to give my loot over to the ashies and the objective of invasion, this was after I had died. The chest in reference was a full chest of various loot I had gotten and was trying to pray away to get more megafauna to kill, something I normally do as a miner. Am sad that engineering had messed up containment on the Singularity before the tribals could invade.

[bandit]

I remember hearing about a guy whose gimmick was to play ash-walker just to sneak onto the station as an undocumented immigrant janitor. I thought it was pretty hilarious and almost tempted me to try doing just that.

Banning friendly lizards is pretty dumb unless they're specifically working against other ash walkers.

not speaking as an admin giving policy dictates here but this is more or less how things should be; I have also played rounds as lizard shaft miner where I hung out with the ashwalkers (not killing people just speaking draconic and chilling). we have enough roles whose job is to be a glorified npc killing crew.

[confused rock]

this is a bit less about what ash walkers are allowed to do and more as clarifying what the crew is allowed to do to them because I dislike the idea of a situation where walkers know if they just act friendly they can get on the station scot free and use ash walker as a free respawn. do as you will tho

[Farquaar]

Objectively correct opinion: Ash Walkers shouldn't be able to operating the mining shuttle console.

[Cobby]

If you play friendly ashie to mean you have no interest of obtaining bodies but want to be cute on the station, you are not really role playing but just using the excuse of “playing the role differently” to second life.

[cacogen]

i don't play a lizard in second life