CLONING REMOVAL FEEDBACK

[Super Aggro Crag]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Im only on manuel as well Sheodir

[Mickyan]

I was in that round with Mickyan, we didnt save a single person because everyone who died just ghosted or went to play on another server, despite me dehusking and replacing their every organ. He'll back me up on that.

It's worth putting into context that the round had been going on for very long time and we had people that started hurting/killing themselves for the fun of it so I don't think it's fair to treat it like it's the norm, because I've never had such a terrible experience on manuel before

People that ghost in the middle of treatment are dicks, though, and I'm not going to excuse their behavior because of any code change. I'd much rather start writing down names of people that don't deserve to waste my time if I really have to

[Sheodir]

Im only on manuel as well Sheodir

That's... weird. I admit I mostly play Paramedic on EST Night times, just about, but I see most people being revived and only experienced one FUCK HE'S GONE AND I WASTED MY TIME with a plasmaman I took way too long to rez due to a sudden bout of SSD in the middle. I'll try and turn off Sec for a bit and see how it goes in Manuel tonight, force myself to look at Medbay a bit more.

In general this hasn't been my experience as PM and Morgue has mostly been a couple bodies at most, but it's worth checking into more, since I THINK you play CMO, if I'm guessing your in-game name correctly?

I was in that round with Mickyan, we didnt save a single person because everyone who died just ghosted or went to play on another server, despite me dehusking and replacing their every organ. He'll back me up on that.

It's worth putting into context that the round had been going on for very long time and we had people that started hurting/killing themselves for the fun of it so I don't think it's fair to treat it like it's the norm, because I've never had such a terrible experience on manuel before

People that ghost in the middle of treatment are dicks, though, and I'm not going to excuse their behavior because of any code change. I'd much rather start writing down names of people that don't deserve to waste my time if I really have to

Long shifts in Manuel are weird. People just kinda give up on the whole thing and I did see an uptick in abandoned bodies in Morgue during these, but I do feel it's more of an issue of the brain just going BORED NOW whenever a shift goes for close to 2 hours. As HoS it's been my personal hell since people just up and give the fuck up on trying to even stick to their own gimmicks - we had a clown taxi that'd behaved the whole shift just go BORED NOW and start aggressively kidnapping people and basically forcing a shuttle call by himself.

So yeah, not a great example to fit all rounds in.

[Super Aggro Crag]

I was in that round with Mickyan, we didnt save a single person because everyone who died just ghosted or went to play on another server, despite me dehusking and replacing their every organ. He'll back me up on that.

It's worth putting into context that the round had been going on for very long time and we had people that started hurting/killing themselves for the fun of it so I don't think it's fair to treat it like it's the norm, because I've never had such a terrible experience on manuel before

People that ghost in the middle of treatment are dicks, though, and I'm not going to excuse their behavior because of any code change. I'd much rather start writing down names of people that don't deserve to waste my time if I really have to

Share that list with me please

[Anonmare]

I find it a bit funny that the problem is people giving up on the doctor rather than the reverse.

[Qbopper]

I find it a bit funny that the problem is people giving up on the doctor rather than the reverse.

it's the most common fucking thing

for fucks sake i want to play the game and heal people and everyone has 2 nanoseconds of attention span

[Timonk]

Please don't put me on the DNR list

[Sheodir]

I find it a bit funny that the problem is people giving up on the doctor rather than the reverse.

It's def the best "pro cloning" argument but at the same time I feel people might adapt and have to other changes such as these in the past

but then I catch myself betting on ss13 players not being idiots and I'm a sec main and my brain glitches out for a hot second

[Muncher21]

First of all, my scrubby link as proof I mostly play CMO/MD

Spoiler:

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/ckey/muncher21

The cloning changes have made medbay massively more fun to play. MD's and CMO feel like actual crew members who have an impact on the station, not just a special flavor of assistant that hangs out in medbay. I used to play piano songs as an MD because there was nothing to do, and I definitely couldn't do that now (which is good)

I also haven't seen a single person ghost on me while I'm reviving them. I have revived souless bodies, but they were always souless when I started on them.

[SkeletalElite]

First of all, my scrubby link as proof I mostly play CMO/MD

Spoiler:

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/ckey/muncher21

The cloning changes have made medbay massively more fun to play. MD's and CMO feel like actual crew members who have an impact on the station, not just a special flavor of assistant that hangs out in medbay. I used to play piano songs as an MD because there was nothing to do, and I definitely couldn't do that now (which is good)

I also haven't seen a single person ghost on me while I'm reviving them. I have revived souless bodies, but they were always souless when I started on them.

The question is whether or not removing cloning increases the amount of souless bodies. Are people just leaving/server hopping when they die because they have no hope that they're going to be revived in a subjective reasonable amount of time?

I think that's the most likely negative outcome of removing cloning. People who want to play the game just server hopping/doing something else rather than sit around and wait for revival. If your body gets taken to medbay quickly I think this has little impact but even if your body ends up in a locker for more than a few minutes any hope of a quick revival is basically out the window.

Much of the argument for this has been that some edge cases will take a lot of effort and that's okay, but I think that in a lot of these edge cases the ghost will just leave out of hopelessness.

[oranges]

ADHD people will sort themselves out of the playerbase, I wouldn't worry about it.

[Ziiro]

Alright so having now played a fairly chaotic round as doctor with this change: it's bad, folks.

Positive: I feel busy and I feel useful. Medical is engaging.

Negative: Every single issue beyond "take this suture and fuck off" requires in depth surgery and standing around for long periods of time watching a progress bar
Negative: Bodies everywhere, by the time you actually get to them they don't respond to revival
Negative I was doing back to back surgeries for at least 30-45 minutes and I had another doctor to help me. This was with ~40-50 players. The amount of attention demanded for each situation scales horribly with player pop.

Bug: Unlike the surgery table/stasis bed, the roller bed doesn't stop you from beating the shit out of patients when you use the wrong tool.

Additional: Blood loss is basically permadeath for the body if the situation is bad. If you have no extra blood, that just means that people who are too low to survive on their own and process reagents for extra blood will never survive off the stasis bed. I'm probably wrong in this, but it's just dumb. Can the organ harvester also output containers of blood, while it's at it?

[SpinnerMaster]

[nianjiilical]

Additional: Blood loss is basically permadeath for the body if the situation is bad. If you have no extra blood, that just means that people who are too low to survive on their own and process reagents for extra blood will never survive off the stasis bed. I'm probably wrong in this, but it's just dumb. Can the organ harvester also output containers of blood, while it's at it?

1) take a blood sample from someone with a syringe
2) go to pharmacy and make 90s unstable mutagen (30u chlorine 30u radium 30u phosphorus)
3) inject blood to turn it into 95u of whatever blood type they have

though i bet now that i said this it's going to get nerfed

also i definitely think that if stasis beds are going to be necessary for surgery every map should have a least 4, only two makes it too easy to run out of room for people

[Muncher21]

Spoiler:

Round ID? I'm super curious about the a lot of context behind this picture, station time, number of antags, number of medical staff etc.

[SpinnerMaster]

Spoiler:

Round ID? I'm super curious about the a lot of context behind this picture, station time, number of antags, number of medical staff etc.

129299

[Muncher21]

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/129299

Looks like an insane round with 58 deaths (the entire crew). Antags were revs, aliums, and whatever dynamic spawned that I missed. All that with only two paramedics and a single MD to try and handle it all.

Honestly to me this looks like exactly what should happen during a round like this, especially if medbay only has one doctor. Another interesting point is the connected clients stayed extremely stable, but that may just be the round was entertaining to watch.

[Shadowflame909]

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/129299

Looks like an insane round with 58 deaths (the entire crew). Antags were revs, aliums, and whatever dynamic spawned that I missed. All that with only two paramedics and a single MD to try and handle it all.

Honestly to me this looks like exactly what should happen during a round like this, especially if medbay only has one doctor. Another interesting point is the connected clients stayed extremely stable, but that may just be the round was entertaining to watch.

Antags don't deserve to steamroll the station.

Wheres the fun in the villains always winning?

I think its time to remove the antag freeze so we can get thing lings to replace wizard lings

[wesoda25]

Actually a good point, we've received a lot of crew content and a lot of stuff has been balanced. In comparison it has become very obvious what aspects of antags now need nerfing in order to keep the game kinda sorta not that terribly balanced. Medical rework seems pretty much done now, why not lift the freeze?

[Kryson]

also i definitely think that if stasis beds are going to be necessary for surgery every map should have a least 4, only two makes it too easy to run out of room for people

Stasis beds are not necessary, they are just a magical machine that removes all urgency for medical gameplay.

They were ridiculous even before they were powercreeped to be surgical tables++.

Now doctors feel entitled to never losing a patient due to blood loss, poisons or missing organs and demand that everything should be able to be done while the patient is in stasis.

stasis would be fine if it made the patient untreatable while under the effect and was just designed to give doctors some breathing room, but today where it allows the doctor to fix the patient in a totally consequence free environment is bad design in my opinion.

I'm here to play a wacky space station that goes off the rails simulator.

look shadowflame, the point of stasis is that it is the monster truck sized training wheels that prevents anything medical related from ever going off the rails since if it does, you just strap them to the magic machine and tend wounds / replace blood / fix their organs / dose them with enough drugs to survive without any chance of the patient deteriorating.

[Shadowflame909]

also i definitely think that if stasis beds are going to be necessary for surgery every map should have a least 4, only two makes it too easy to run out of room for people

Stasis beds are not necessary, they are just a magical machine that removes all urgency for medical gameplay.

They were ridiculous even before they were powercreeped to be surgical tables++.

Now doctors feel entitled to never losing a patient due to blood loss, poisons or missing organs and demand that everything should be able to be done while the patient is in stasis.

Unironically opposite opinion here: It's not futuristically fun if it's not magical.

If all of the easy "wow glad we're in the future so this task has been made so much easier" stuff gets removed, this game becomes a corporate dystopia of the worst kind.

And i'm not here to play a sad reality simulator. I'm here to play a wacky space station that goes off the rails simulator.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

Stasis beds are op

this, i dont get why people just remove x and buff y so people dont complain, then they remove y and buff z in a loop, they should just be nerfed to "slow down" metabolism/bloodloss/decomposing but not a timestop watch like in those japanese porns

[Timonk]

also i definitely think that if stasis beds are going to be necessary for surgery every map should have a least 4, only two makes it too easy to run out of room for people

Stasis beds are not necessary, they are just a magical machine that removes all urgency for medical gameplay.

They were ridiculous even before they were powercreeped to be surgical tables++.

Now doctors feel entitled to never losing a patient due to blood loss, poisons or missing organs and demand that everything should be able to be done while the patient is in stasis.

Unironically opposite opinion here: It's not futuristically fun if it's not magical.

If all of the easy "wow glad we're in the future so this task has been made so much easier" stuff gets removed, this game becomes a corporate dystopia of the worst kind.

And i'm not here to play a sad reality simulator. I'm here to play a wacky space station that goes off the rails simulator.

I second this

[Sheodir]

Unironically opposite opinion here: It's not futuristically fun if it's not magical.

If all of the easy "wow glad we're in the future so this task has been made so much easier" stuff gets removed, this game becomes a corporate dystopia of the worst kind.

And i'm not here to play a sad reality simulator. I'm here to play a wacky space station that goes off the rails simulator.

I honestly prefer "superscience" more than "magical" (tenuous line) but I feel removing stasis bed is misguided. Whilst cloning affected game balance negatively and made a role a lot more boring stasis beds just stabilize organ decay and make decay more about the pressure to find a body rather than the pressure to then speedrun surgery lest it cascades into failure.

Also important to note that whilst stasis beds fit "superscience", so did cloning. My problem with cloning was never thematic.

[Muncher21]

Antags don't deserve to steamroll the station.

Wheres the fun in the villains always winning?

I think its time to remove the antag freeze so we can get thing lings to replace wizard lings

I don't see how one round of the antags winning means they steamroll all the time.

Win loss ratio for this month seems extremely balanced, almost 50/50 for all game modes except wizard which never won once. Obviously this is a small sample size of games with cloning removed, but I think it's far to early to declare antags as "steamrolling the station" every round.

[peoplearestrange]

Win loss ratio for this month seems extremely balanced, almost 50/50 for all game modes except wizard which never won once. Obviously this is a small sample size of games with cloning removed, but I think it's far to early to declare antags as "steamrolling the station" every round.

This is across ALL /tg/ servers. This includes the sybil 2 day long rounds. It includes all of Terry's quick dynamic rounds and it includes the forced balance of no murderbone/rev/cult on Manuel.

Im not really sure you can use that as an accurate measure of game modes.

[Super Aggro Crag]

valid point, peoplearestrange

[Muncher21]

This is across ALL /tg/ servers. This includes the sybil 2 day long rounds. It includes all of Terry's quick dynamic rounds and it includes the forced balance of no murderbone/rev/cult on Manuel.

Im not really sure you can use that as an accurate measure of game modes.

Is there a better way to look at the data? I'd prefer the W/L ratio across all servers then anecdotal "No one was reviving people during rev/aliens round" once, therefore antags steamroll every round ever.

[Dr_bee]

W/L ratios are very poor data in a a game like SS13, where the quality of the round is more important than the win itself. Sure the wins might be even, but if a crew win is always a 25 minute code red shuttle rush and the cult win is always a cult-tide snowball curb-stomp it doesn't matter what the ratio is.

[Sheodir]

W/L ratios are very poor data in a a game like SS13, where the quality of the round is more important than the win itself. Sure the wins might be even, but if a crew win is always a 25 minute code red shuttle rush and the cult win is always a cult-tide snowball curb-stomp it doesn't matter what the ratio is.

I think player skill also factors a lot in it. Other day in Manuel I got Nuke Ops but one of my Ops fucked off wordlessly and another managed to suffocate himself with a 1 tile hallway breach whilst sneaking around

So y'know, you always gotta account for player stupidity

The game being steamrolls for both sides is def still a problem, for example if revs/cult gets caught early on they lose really fast, but if they gain traction they're basically unbeatable 99% of the time

[Arathian]

Update of sorts?

I still see a lot of dead bodies never fixed/fixed so slowly they go perma-ssd.

When a huge problem breaks out, bodies simply never get fixed. I was cult leader today and we had some fights and, guess what, security collapsed because no one got fixed. I eventually simply waltzed into medbay and beheaded all the remaining doctors while 5-6 bodies laid in piles.

On "normal" amount of bodies, medbay can usually keep up, but on either mass murder antags (like revs/cult) or in dynamic servers (like Terry) sudden spikes of bodies are usual and I have never seen medbay keep up with them so far.

I still dislike this meta.

The current PR updating stuff like brain damage etc is great though.

Please add a PR about missing/spilled organs though. That's still a huge issue I see doctors getting fucked over with.

[Sheodir]

Update of sorts?

I still see a lot of dead bodies never fixed/fixed so slowly they go perma-ssd.

When a huge problem breaks out, bodies simply never get fixed. I was cult leader today and we had some fights and, guess what, security collapsed because no one got fixed. I eventually simply waltzed into medbay and beheaded all the remaining doctors while 5-6 bodies laid in piles.

On "normal" amount of bodies, medbay can usually keep up, but on either mass murder antags (like revs/cult) or in dynamic servers (like Terry) sudden spikes of bodies are usual and I have never seen medbay keep up with them so far.

I still dislike this meta.

The current PR updating stuff like brain damage etc is great though.

Please add a PR about missing/spilled organs though. That's still a huge issue I see doctors getting fucked over with.

I do think if we made stasis beds more plentiful and default for surgery it'd control for this a lot. Organ decay can be a ticking issue.

[imsxz]

ive been playing medical recently to be able to confidently take a stance on the cloning changes. i enjoy it, it feels a lot more rewarding to be a fast doctor than it did in the past. Just had a shift on bagil where a bomb went off near medbay and 2 people were beheaded in maint. We were able to stitch the corpses including bomb victims back together in the time that the roundstart cloner would have been able to clone 1 of them. The recent surgery and defib changes have made medbay a lot stronger when staffed by a competent crew, and frankly i think it is a good change for the game overall.

[Shadowflame909]

ive been playing medical recently to be able to confidently take a stance on the cloning changes. i enjoy it, it feels a lot more rewarding to be a fast doctor than it did in the past. Just had a shift on bagil where a bomb went off near medbay and 2 people were beheaded in maint. We were able to stitch the corpses including bomb victims back together in the time that the roundstart cloner would have been able to clone 1 of them. The recent surgery and defib changes have made medbay a lot stronger when staffed by a competent crew, and frankly i think it is a good change for the game overall.

You've never disliked a nerf

Edit: but you don't die often either...

[Critawakets]

Cloning removal only really works on Manuel where there is no murderboning. Fixing like, 5 patients at most is fine, but fixing up an entire station bloody well isnt.

Infact, no murderboning just makes the game more fun. Put it on all servers since imsxz isnt admin anymore.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Theres murderboning on manuel, silent skeleton pirates keep butchering the crew

[imsxz]

ive been playing medical recently to be able to confidently take a stance on the cloning changes. i enjoy it, it feels a lot more rewarding to be a fast doctor than it did in the past. Just had a shift on bagil where a bomb went off near medbay and 2 people were beheaded in maint. We were able to stitch the corpses including bomb victims back together in the time that the roundstart cloner would have been able to clone 1 of them. The recent surgery and defib changes have made medbay a lot stronger when staffed by a competent crew, and frankly i think it is a good change for the game overall.

You've never disliked a nerf

Edit: but you don't die often either...

I’ve disliked nerfs/changes plenty. I stopped taking them as a personal affront to my ability to play ss13 after techwebs replaces my beautiful old autism RND. Recent nerf that I disagree with is the one to light step. I just don’t behemently express my opinion about them because change is change and new stuff is ultimately one of the few things that keeps me from quitting

[SkeletalElite]

Medbay needs a way to deal with crises, sometimes shit happens and the bodies just keep piling up. I think even with cloning this was a problem, but is even worse without it. A good medbay team could probably effectively deal with this with the tools currently in place, but it will require the competence of numerous people in medbay all working effectively, which is rare. I think some way of medbay to deal with a crisis is necessary, especially if the goal is create an environment where people try to fix problems first instead of call the shuttle when something goes bad.

I think passive tools that are much less efficient than the active work of a doctor is a good way of doing that. One way this could work would be to make cloning take much longer. That way when the bodies pile up the cloner works to get people back in the round as secondary tool while doctors actively revive other bodies much more quickly than the cloner can. In a non crisis situation using the cloner would be a bad idea because you can just revive the body yourself faster, but if you have a lot of bodies to revive having the cloner revive one while you work on others could help the station recover. In the event you do have the medbay dream team, they can work faster without the cloner. This adds a bit of a saftey net though, something too fall back on if medbay is to swamped to handle everything or all the doctors get killed.

edit: Oh and also it helps in the case of escalation, where without cloning, theres a bit of a grey area on what to do if you kill someone you start a conflict with.

[skoglol]

I think passive tools that are much less efficient than the active work of a doctor is a good way of doing that. One way this could work would be to make cloning take much longer. That way when the bodies pile up the cloner works to get people back in the round as secondary tool while doctors actively revive other bodies much more quickly than the cloner can. In a non crisis situation using the cloner would be a bad idea because you can just revive the body yourself faster, but if you have a lot of bodies to revive having the cloner revive one while you work on others could help the station recover. In the event you do have the medbay dream team, they can work faster without the cloner. This adds a bit of a saftey net though, something too fall back on if medbay is to swamped to handle everything or all the doctors get killed.

Ive said a few times already, but there are a few problems here.
1: Making cloning take longer doesnt scale, since you can just make more cloners.
2: Even if it takes a long time, we have to balance everything else around that process and even if we do that perfectly it will always be available as the path of least resistance.
3: Cloning doesnt require doctors, which is a problem. With cloning available every non doctor can throw someone in the cloner and be done with it, in the process stealing medbays gameplay. And if you make cloning an active process, you arent solving what you presented as the issue in the first place.

edit: Oh and also it helps in the case of escalation, where without cloning, theres a bit of a grey area on what to do if you kill someone you start a conflict with.

This isn't grey at all. Dont kill someone you started a conflict with, and if you do then take the consequences of having killed someone.

[Sheodir]

Medbay needs a way to deal with crises, sometimes shit happens and the bodies just keep piling up. I think even with cloning this was a problem, but is even worse without it. A good medbay team could probably effectively deal with this with the tools currently in place, but it will require the competence of numerous people in medbay all working effectively, which is rare. I think some way of medbay to deal with a crisis is necessary, especially if the goal is create an environment where people try to fix problems first instead of call the shuttle when something goes bad.

I think passive tools that are much less efficient than the active work of a doctor is a good way of doing that. One way this could work would be to make cloning take much longer. That way when the bodies pile up the cloner works to get people back in the round as secondary tool while doctors actively revive other bodies much more quickly than the cloner can. In a non crisis situation using the cloner would be a bad idea because you can just revive the body yourself faster, but if you have a lot of bodies to revive having the cloner revive one while you work on others could help the station recover. In the event you do have the medbay dream team, they can work faster without the cloner. This adds a bit of a saftey net though, something too fall back on if medbay is to swamped to handle everything or all the doctors get killed.

edit: Oh and also it helps in the case of escalation, where without cloning, theres a bit of a grey area on what to do if you kill someone you start a conflict with.

A bypass surgery takes 30 seconds, and you can almost always defib straight after (if they have brute or burn damage a patch or injection from the kit will take care of it). Medbay is just inexperienced right now. It'll pass.

[cacogen]

Cloning removal only really works on Manuel where there is no murderboning.

braindeath
the silent murderbonerer

[Taraiph]

snip.

A bypass surgery takes 30 seconds, and you can almost always defib straight after (if they have brute or burn damage a patch or injection from the kit will take care of it). Medbay is just inexperienced right now. It'll pass.

A bypass surgery takes 30 seconds. Organ replacement takes two minutes, not counting the appendix in which case add another thirty seconds. Brain surgery takes thirty seconds assuming the brain isn't dead to begin with. The actual revival surgery can take around 30-ish seconds. Note that I'm not even counting actual tissue damage or blood loss, which can take several minutes to heal at worst. For an experienced medbay player it can take a while to revive one single body from death, and that's in the best circumstances with a stocked fridge and competent non-traitor teammates. In the worst circumstances suiciding mid-surgery might actually be a more effective use of your time because the dude you're operating on already fucked off to become a xenobio spawn and the R&D dude is too busy fighting robotics over points, if there's an R&D dude at all.

80% of my time in medbay is now spent trying to bring people back to life instead of doing fun stuff and giving out cool surgeries. For all the focus on surgery and improving that end, most of them go completely unused. This, in the long run, will ultimately hurt medbay, because there's nothing interesting to do once you've learned the revival flowchart.

Stasis beds are not necessary, they are just a magical machine that removes all urgency for medical gameplay.

Do not make the problem worse.

[Sheodir]

A bypass surgery takes 30 seconds. Organ replacement takes two minutes, not counting the appendix in which case add another thirty seconds. Brain surgery takes thirty seconds assuming the brain isn't dead to begin with. The actual revival surgery can take around 30-ish seconds. Note that I'm not even counting actual tissue damage or blood loss, which can take several minutes to heal at worst. For an experienced medbay player it can take a while to revive one single body from death, and that's in the best circumstances with a stocked fridge and competent non-traitor teammates. In the worst circumstances suiciding mid-surgery might actually be a more effective use of your time because the dude you're operating on already fucked off to become a xenobio spawn and the R&D dude is too busy fighting robotics over points, if there's an R&D dude at all.

This is what I mean by inexperience.

If not Non-Functional it's not worth going for replacing the other organs unless you have time to spare. Brains only break after thirty minutes, so you'll rarely have to do brain repair surgery. Plus, if there's one complaint after playing a lot of Medbay post cloning is that revival surgery is pretty much needless - you only need it if the body's so cold it might as well be a popsicle, up to 30 minutes or more. For most, your rhythm is coronary bypass and defib, with tend wounds for 20 seconds n the middle if you used up all your brute/burn kits and the chemist hasn't made more.

If the Organs aren't Non-Functional, even Severely Damaged ones will at best just inconvenience the revived player for a couple minutes before they're healed up to Moderately Damaged, at which point the inconveniences are minimal (mostly flavor text). So in a rush, focus on this process (bypass->heal->defib) and only go for the full fixer upper when you have the time.

This is the kind of dynamic decision making that makes Medbay fun now imo.

[kopoba]

Spoiler:

Round ID? I'm super curious about the a lot of context behind this picture, station time, number of antags, number of medical staff etc.

i can bet its 129426 or not but looks similar

[Taraiph]

judgement cut

This is what I mean by inexperience.

If not Non-Functional it's not worth going for replacing the other organs unless you have time to spare. Brains only break after thirty minutes, so you'll rarely have to do brain repair surgery. Plus, if there's one complaint after playing a lot of Medbay post cloning is that revival surgery is pretty much needless - you only need it if the body's so cold it might as well be a popsicle, up to 30 minutes or more. For most, your rhythm is coronary bypass and defib, with tend wounds for 20 seconds n the middle if you used up all your brute/burn kits and the chemist hasn't made more.

If the Organs aren't Non-Functional, even Severely Damaged ones will at best just inconvenience the revived player for a couple minutes before they're healed up to Moderately Damaged, at which point the inconveniences are minimal (mostly flavor text). So in a rush, focus on this process (bypass->heal->defib) and only go for the full fixer upper when you have the time.

This is the kind of dynamic decision making that makes Medbay fun now imo.

That's not dynamic decision making. That's a flowchart. If the decision-making weren't so binary I'd say it were dynamic. At this point it's just more of the same conveyor-belt mentality that cloning caused, only now you have even more catatonic people than ever before.

[Sheodir]

That's not dynamic decision making. That's a flowchart. If the decision-making weren't so binary I'd say it were dynamic. At this point it's just more of the same conveyor-belt mentality that cloning caused, only now you have even more catatonic people than ever before.

Did you not read what I wrote?

The dynamic part is the decision of to which degree you treat someone using invasive and busy methods depending on how many people are flooding in and how much work they demand. You can opt for bypass and defib, for a quick multi organ repair (you can put several prosthetics at once if you fill up a fridge ahead of time), which surgeries to go for vs final result. You also didn't comment at all at the much different, faster treatment methods that apparently arose from you misunderstanding the systems at play, which greatly reduce your grievances.

It sure is a lot more decision making than cloning gave us.

[kopoba]

Reviving still take take too much time and i dont see anyone making any steps to fix this.
So cloning removal sucks.

[Qbopper]

Reviving still take take too much time and i dont see anyone making any steps to fix this.
So cloning removal sucks.

this seems kinda needlessly reductive

[Sheodir]

Reviving still take take too much time and i dont see anyone making any steps to fix this.
So cloning removal sucks.

Objectively wrong.

For most cases that can't be straight defibbed (Dead within the last 4 to 10 minutes) a bypass and defib with tend wounds OR chem injection from a kit in the middle is more than enough. Assuming basic tend wounds and a fully damaged 200 brute or burn damage body you're looking at about a minute half revival. (healing to the point of defib + bypass + defib)

This is significantly faster than roundstart cloning, which took 3 minutes.

[Super Aggro Crag]

what if they're husked

[skoglol]

Reviving still take take too much time and i dont see anyone making any steps to fix this.
So cloning removal sucks.

You've downvoted a PR making it easier for doctors to deal with death in the last few days. Begone.