/tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
- oranges
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/tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
I was reading wikipedia last night at 1am about separation of the powers and the nz govt and it hit me
/tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
headadmins are the legislature, they reign supreme, elected by the population, they establish statutes (policy) and order the executive branch around, they can also dismiss the judiciary entirely (fork)
admins are the executive, they carry out the statutes and enforce the mechanisms of governance, and they serve at the pleasure of the legislature, who has supremacy over them and chooses who takes what position.
coderbus is the judiciary of a common law system, they are elected for life (not popularists), can interpret the legislation (modify code to support policy) and can establish their own precedence and historical weight to previous rulings (code, which can be overridden by new policy)
all serve at the behest of the host (the monarch) who has ultimate power (can dismiss all branches of govt) but does not use any of their reserve powers by constitutional convention(unwritten and uncodified)
This separation of powers ensures a healthy checks and balances system across the game and community.
However, what can we learn from this (from my perspective)?
1) The head admins should say more about game design through statements/policy comments, that we can interpret
I don't get a lot of feedback from them(it's usually post a merge and they're mad or annoyed), and I certainly rarely get any direction about design, which kind of leaves me to have my own thoughts and that gleaned from what people are willing to make PR's about, which isn't the greatest.
If headadmins don't want to carry the additional weight they should establish a group/body of people to provide this insight.
/tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
headadmins are the legislature, they reign supreme, elected by the population, they establish statutes (policy) and order the executive branch around, they can also dismiss the judiciary entirely (fork)
admins are the executive, they carry out the statutes and enforce the mechanisms of governance, and they serve at the pleasure of the legislature, who has supremacy over them and chooses who takes what position.
coderbus is the judiciary of a common law system, they are elected for life (not popularists), can interpret the legislation (modify code to support policy) and can establish their own precedence and historical weight to previous rulings (code, which can be overridden by new policy)
all serve at the behest of the host (the monarch) who has ultimate power (can dismiss all branches of govt) but does not use any of their reserve powers by constitutional convention(unwritten and uncodified)
This separation of powers ensures a healthy checks and balances system across the game and community.
However, what can we learn from this (from my perspective)?
1) The head admins should say more about game design through statements/policy comments, that we can interpret
I don't get a lot of feedback from them(it's usually post a merge and they're mad or annoyed), and I certainly rarely get any direction about design, which kind of leaves me to have my own thoughts and that gleaned from what people are willing to make PR's about, which isn't the greatest.
If headadmins don't want to carry the additional weight they should establish a group/body of people to provide this insight.
- MisterPerson
- Board Moderator
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
Go home oranges, you're drunk.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
- oranges
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
board moderators are the lowest form of life in the system
- ThanatosRa
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
Make sure no Catholic terrorists try to bomb the tg house of commons
my forum gimmick is that no one knows who i am
gender is irrelevant NO UR IRRELEVANT
u a bish
y u heff 2 b med
gender is irrelevant NO UR IRRELEVANT
u a bish
y u heff 2 b med
- CitrusGender
- In-Game Game Master
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
oranges wrote:
1) The head admins should say more about game design through statements/policy comments, that we can interpret
I don't get a lot of feedback from them(it's usually post a merge and they're mad or annoyed), and I certainly rarely get any direction about design, which kind of leaves me to have my own thoughts and that gleaned from what people are willing to make PR's about, which isn't the greatest.
If headadmins don't want to carry the additional weight they should establish a group/body of people to provide this insight.
a lot of times, most headmins don't want game design to change/ have no incentive to do so. You've given no direction since the headmins don't consistently check open PRs and often those PRs make their way over through word of mouth. This puts you in a situation where you have all these decisions available to you and, for better or worse, you sometimes make a decision without asking the headmins since they often won't give their opinions about how they feel about some features.
This isn't bad, but frankly headmins aren't involved in code changes since that's how the job description has been for the past few elections. It helped to have a design lead or whatever kor was before, and he was headmin as well so that was useful.
Still, there is no responsibility to design the game and often times headmins become too busy with policy and other bullcrap to give direction to you. The people that elect headmins also want a lot of different things and, honestly, direction is awful for an elected official (unless shit is like REALLY BAD) and doing nothing usually pleases the largest amount of people (albeit not everyone.)
edit: also, my massive hot take: the election really is just a massive popularity contest.
There's nothing at all wrong with that, it makes people who are really good communicators and people who are able to make friendships easily. Still, what is being a headmin then? Why elect someone for a design job? You're electing people to overwatch the community, not design the game. If you want to hire a designer, give them some tenure to make unpopular decisions.
- BeeSting12
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
"design" "lead"
- Shadowflame909
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
>Codebase isn't actually the secret gazillionare with so much money that they have the entire system in their pockets
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- oranges
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
I wish they wouldCitrusGender wrote:oranges wrote:
1) The head admins should say more about game design through statements/policy comments, that we can interpret
I don't get a lot of feedback from them(it's usually post a merge and they're mad or annoyed), and I certainly rarely get any direction about design, which kind of leaves me to have my own thoughts and that gleaned from what people are willing to make PR's about, which isn't the greatest.
If headadmins don't want to carry the additional weight they should establish a group/body of people to provide this insight.
a lot of times, most headmins don't want game design to change/ have no incentive to do so. You've given no direction since the headmins don't consistently check open PRs and often those PRs make their way over through word of mouth. This puts you in a situation where you have all these decisions available to you and, for better or worse, you sometimes make a decision without asking the headmins since they often won't give their opinions about how they feel about some features.
only one of them, and I disagree that they're elected to overwatch the community, they're elected to change it, look at every platform, it's either a platform of some change, or keep on the mean.edit:[/b] also, my massive hot take: the election really is just a massive popularity contest.
There's nothing at all wrong with that, it makes people who are really good communicators and people who are able to make friendships easily. Still, what is being a headmin then? Why elect someone for a design job? You're electing people to overwatch the community, not design the game. If you want to hire a designer, give them some tenure to make unpopular decisions.
- NikNakFlak
- In-Game Admin
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
code solutions are the best solutions.
let's talk more about code oranges!
let's talk more about code oranges!
- wesoda25
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:32 pm
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
Perhaps the headmins (specifically nerv) frustration about the codebase aka oranges was biased since the few times they did try and flex their administrative might, it was on controversial matters that oranges disagreed with them on. You can’t exactly blame them, with “separation of server and codebase is absolute” being thrown in their face often. Still, they themselves do nothing about it because I’ve seen hulk on github once, nerv rarely, and wubli never.
The point of this post? Idk, observations I guess.
The point of this post? Idk, observations I guess.
- Shadowflame909
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
everyone knows the codebase is the more influental branch
you got 3 gamers to argue with each other on rules leading to nothing changing
but orange man is going on their wild ride
you got 3 gamers to argue with each other on rules leading to nothing changing
but orange man is going on their wild ride
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- PKPenguin321
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
this is also the reason head admins should not also be maintainers
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- Shadowflame909
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
nervere man agrees that its very obvious with how fast the code is changing and how stagnant the rules are. It leads to some tension and conflict that makes QoL worse for everyone
Y'know I live in america and democracy and all that. But maybe we need a Head-Maintainer or something. So we're not trying to play two different style of "game" at once.
That or make maintainers a vote as well to slow them the fug down
Y'know I live in america and democracy and all that. But maybe we need a Head-Maintainer or something. So we're not trying to play two different style of "game" at once.
That or make maintainers a vote as well to slow them the fug down
► Show Spoiler
- oranges
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
ha ha what if we callled them a head coder
- MisterPerson
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
Are people actually complaining that there's too many changes? Changes they don't like, sure, but I've always heard that rapid development was a core strength of ours. New stuff is fun, changes to the meta are fun, having to relearn the game is fun, etc.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
- Arathian
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
MSO's headmin pick should be abolished and, instead, coders should vote between them for a coder headmin.
The coder headmin's job should be less focused on directly making rules changes and more about both communicating the coder intentions to the other 2 headmins as well as helping establish the rules groundwork needed due to upcoming code changes.
If abolishing MSO's headmin pick isn't possible (which is likely. I am still a ssethtider, I don't know the deeper politics as well) then a coder liaison position should be established with the above responsibilities.
I actually like oranges despite calling him bad approximately every 5 seconds but he is not the most approachable man in the world. A link between oranges and the headmins would work best. Preferably someone who is close to oranges and shares his vision.
The coder headmin's job should be less focused on directly making rules changes and more about both communicating the coder intentions to the other 2 headmins as well as helping establish the rules groundwork needed due to upcoming code changes.
If abolishing MSO's headmin pick isn't possible (which is likely. I am still a ssethtider, I don't know the deeper politics as well) then a coder liaison position should be established with the above responsibilities.
I actually like oranges despite calling him bad approximately every 5 seconds but he is not the most approachable man in the world. A link between oranges and the headmins would work best. Preferably someone who is close to oranges and shares his vision.
Iron, blood and spider armies
- Shaps-cloud
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
I think running on a platform of change is silly and usually doesn't even pan out. I ran on a platform of "shit's good as is, I want to stay the course" and got elected, I think people just make all these promises so they can have something to talk about and kill time with. Lord knows almost no one reads the forums, and even I (an idiot who does read the forums) have zero fucking patience for the twenty eight motherfucking candidate debate threads and however many dozen candidate threads this election has.
- Shadowflame909
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
Maybe doing nothing could be expected policywise but it'd really be the end of this game if the rules continued to stay stagnant while the code changed.
All this escalation is gonna wear down on us once this harsher medbay plan gets finalized.
All this escalation is gonna wear down on us once this harsher medbay plan gets finalized.
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- datorangebottle
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
So what you're saying is that we should elect Plapatin so that he can be the senate parliament.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
- Chaznoodles
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
Parliament just got shut down, this is a dictatorship now
- IkeTG
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- PKPenguin321
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
we used to do this and my term had a headmin who was also a maintainer, surprise surprise that was one of the only real cases of outright corruption that we had as he flew a bunch of testmerges to fuck over other peoples changes and push his own. it's shitArathian wrote:MSO's headmin pick should be abolished and, instead, coders should vote between them for a coder headmin.
The coder headmin's job should be less focused on directly making rules changes and more about both communicating the coder intentions to the other 2 headmins as well as helping establish the rules groundwork needed due to upcoming code changes.
If abolishing MSO's headmin pick isn't possible (which is likely. I am still a ssethtider, I don't know the deeper politics as well) then a coder liaison position should be established with the above responsibilities.
I actually like oranges despite calling him bad approximately every 5 seconds but he is not the most approachable man in the world. A link between oranges and the headmins would work best. Preferably someone who is close to oranges and shares his vision.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- Shadowflame909
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
How do we bug fix maintainer-headmin corruption
► Show Spoiler
- MisterPerson
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
And his weed is the corgis.IkeTG wrote:so MSO's the queen of /tg/station?
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
- oranges
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Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
the maintainers used to have a vote, but they would pick the same person every time, so hg had like a 2-3 year termArathian wrote:MSO's headmin pick should be abolished and, instead, coders should vote between them for a coder headmin.
The coder headmin's job should be less focused on directly making rules changes and more about both communicating the coder intentions to the other 2 headmins as well as helping establish the rules groundwork needed due to upcoming code changes.
If abolishing MSO's headmin pick isn't possible (which is likely. I am still a ssethtider, I don't know the deeper politics as well) then a coder liaison position should be established with the above responsibilities.
I actually like oranges despite calling him bad approximately every 5 seconds but he is not the most approachable man in the world. A link between oranges and the headmins would work best. Preferably someone who is close to oranges and shares his vision.
- MisterPerson
- Board Moderator
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:26 pm
- Byond Username: MisterPerson
Re: /tg/station is a parliamentary democracy
How dare you forget Aranclano's very serious vote ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Technically that was the host vote, but SoS just gave it to coderbus every time.
Technically that was the host vote, but SoS just gave it to coderbus every time.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
- Tarchonvaagh
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