[POLL] Security Sprite Changes

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:33 am #50001

Bottom post of the previous page:

Yeah MrPerson, that seems like a shit reason to remove it

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:39 am #50002

Invisible armor is inherently bad. The jumpsuit slot is for aesthetics, the suit/hat slot is for armor buffing. It's a lot simpler this way for balance, MrPerson makes good points. Jumpsuits should have no real difference other than flavor. People should be inclined to choose clothes to fit their job or what looks best to them, not arbitrary tiny armor stats.

Post by **MisterPerson** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:01 am #50004

lumipharon wrote:Are you really saying that the fact an item that confers some level of advantage but isn't constantly stolen by people (keeping in mind that's literally theft from sec and will get you brigged) doesn't normally happen, and is therefore 'a bad mechanic'?

I'm saying the advantage it has is irrelevant. Nobody cares. Most people don't even know it exists. So why have it? It causes balancing concerns and has no benefits.

soulgamer · Post by **soulgamer** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:29 am #50009

If you remove the armor from the suits please increase the bonus on normal armor to make up for it

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:30 am #50011

A idea we may be going with is to make the current ausops sprites into SWAT gear that is placed in the armoury, the suggestion is to give it higher ballistic/laser protection. Thus we can have both armours in game.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:29 am #50022

But then we still are forced to use the fatsec that nobody seems to like or want for most of the time

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:56 am #50030

When it comes to security, the goofier it looks, the better it is. Officers are not meant to look like special ops, they should look like your friendly neighborhood rent-a-cop. The first time I joined after the "realistic look" was introduced, I couldn't tell a sec officer from a nuke op. And the gas mask it's a shitty powergame mechanic. Officers don't start with gloves, why should they start with a gas mask? If they really need one for "reasons" they can just ask the warden. The hailer is stupid and it doesn't even work for its original purpose. Everyone is so used to officers spamming it in the bar that it's not taken seriously when someone uses it to hail a suspect.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:03 pm #50064

I don't want to look like a fat mall cop al la: http://imgur.com/xhqhxKK

I want to look like: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2009 ... e_eyes.jpg

It is the dystopian corporate oligarchy future. The biggest and most powerful corporation in human space has hired guards for its primary plasma research facility. They are hiring paramilitary enforcers, not fat old dudes.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:19 pm #50076

I think parts of this pull are good. I do not care about sec armor being removed, so long as it is added to the vest, and i think the sechailer really should go. It is literally only ever used to shit around with vox, never once seen it used for its original purpose. I just think the old sec armor/helmets look dopey as fuck, even with pap's updates to them. We already voted to revert these new sprites once, decided against it, and now here we are again. Not to mention the poll is 83% against the new sprites at time of writing

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:23 pm #50078

A poll is a good way to help in change, but if you really want to either support or oppose this change you really should post in the relevant PR, the more people whoa actively speak in support of one side the better that side is.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:31 pm #50079

iyaerP wrote:I don't want to look like a fat mall cop al la: http://imgur.com/xhqhxKK

I want to look like: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2009 ... e_eyes.jpg

It is the dystopian corporate oligarchy future. The biggest and most powerful corporation in human space has hired guards for its primary plasma research facility. They are hiring paramilitary enforcers, not fat old dudes.

But then don't come crying when everyone distrusts security and you can't even go to the bar without assistants and clowns glaring at you. Just look at your 2 images: if you are in need of assistance, which one would you approach? Security officers should be able to blend in with the crew, not stride along the halls fully clad in their matte black body armor.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:26 pm #50098

>people vote for edgy combat sec by default
>confused when they get biased against or people fuck with them

k

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:45 pm #50102

The new sec sprites look more professional. Not to mention a good chunk of sec wears berets and redcaps rather than the helmets, until shit starts to go down. And we already have secnoantag anyways, so we know that outside of badmin/ling fuckery you can trust security more than the average person. I think these new suits look bad, and by the look of the poll so do the majority.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:56 pm #50103

Oh man I love singulo, pap posted this fantastic image while trying to argue in favour of the sprite change.

But seriously, go post on the PR!

Fragnostic · Post by **Fragnostic** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:02 pm #50104

Sec officers could look more friendly/inviting/trustworthy, with a blue jumpsuit underneath.
HoP with a helmet, armor, and egun striding up and down the halls gives off this feeling of safety, even though he is neglecting his job and post. HoPcurity is bad, but the look is great. Security in red jumpsuits does look good with the armor, but it is an aggressive scheme IMO and gives off this private army feel.
To me, sec was this division of people with training and extensive background checks(loyalty implanted) to be reliable, trustworthy, and competent enough to be the security detail of an immensely wealth plasma research station owned by an even larger corporation in space. Their job, to me, is to protect their coworkers(whether they are security or not) and placate disturbances in the station that cause extra expenses for the Nanotrasen corporation.

To me, they are a little more serious than mall cops, but are not complete pushovers. They have the tools to defend from xenomorphs, invasive biological entities, shapeshifting deepspace aliens, prevent agents from rival corporations to infiltrate the station(because corporate espionage), and anything else that is expensive and costly to Nanotrasen and their quest for procuring plasma and commerical applications for plasma.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:27 pm #50105

[quote="Fragnostic"]in red jumpsuits does look good with the armor, but it is an aggressive scheme IMO and gives off this private army feel./quote]

...Aren't they actually just somewhat implied to be private military placed on the station to be glorified mall cops? I like the idea; it makes Nanotrasen more of a big corporation as opposed to some space nation.

Aleph · Post by **Aleph** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:52 pm #50148

Should there be an option for formal uniforms ala Half Life's Barney?

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:57 pm #50150

...Security really should be more like a private army than mall cops, lorewise. Despite the attitudes of certain rainbow-tiders, it really is a high-quality cutting-edge research station that gets constantly targeted by high profile Syndicate agents with a vast amount of limited Syndicate funding poured against it. Yeah, I'd defend it with mall cops.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:33 pm #50158

Aleph wrote:Should there be an option for formal uniforms ala Half Life's Barney?

The old Uhangi outfit, blue lawyer suit + old armor + old helmet

it was pretty much like the original Barney, a great outfit for a friendly officer.

The new armor hides the tie so you have to use the detective's armor, and the new helmet doesn't really match

RG4 · Post by **RG4** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:06 am #50166

MisterPerson wrote:>Having it on the jumpsuit is just a hidden feature that adds nothing but increased complexity. It also encourages people to steal security jumpsuits and wear them constantly, which is really stupid.

>It also encourages people to

>encourages

Learn to read. It ENCOURAGES them to do so and they don't do it anyway. Means it's a shitty mechanic.

Only people to ever nab Sec jumpsuits were miners because it gave them some resistances on the mining roid. Also were pap's new sprites merged despite an overhelming no?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:47 am #50185

>my new sprites

They're the old sprites, the armor and helmets. I didn't even make them. They were designed by supernorn (iirc) for the game. I just touched up the detail on them so they didn't make you look fat as fuck and also made them better shaded.

The ausops tacticool black armor is still in the game, it spawns in the armory and replaces the bulletproof vest with a 'tactical vest' and 'tactical helmet' which has greater bullet and explosive resistance for fighting boarding parties. I figured this would be a fair compromise to those people who like the ausops sprites (aka the ones i've basically edited several times to look better anyway?) while making default officers not look as edgy.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:04 am #50189

paprika wrote:>people vote for edgy combat sec by default
>confused when they get biased against or people fuck with them

k

why do you keep saying edgy

don't you think you guys are overthinking this a bit
the sprites we have right now are really nice looking sprites. what's the problem again? we don't have to get all deep "oh this shade of red symbolizes the deep seated rage of blah blah and this lighter one reflects a more passionate aura" holy moly
just make a new pr for the removing armor from the uniforms thing because that's not a bad idea

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:31 am #50194

Someone mentioned to me I should show the current sprites at the view ranges you would find them in game and not zoomed in, so here it is.

Post by **oranges** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:46 am #50197

Does nobody use the hardware scaling?

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:01 am #50204

To be honest, I agree with paprika in the sense that current security is a bit too overdesigned and it clashes with a lot of other sprites within the game. While I wouldn't use the word edgy to describe it, I think the focus of the sprites we have right now is more directed towards making security look "cool" rather than approachable. Right now they look like the kind of guys that would kick your door down and take you off in a black van to never been seen again. While some people might think that is a good thing, just try imagining the same kind of guys patrolling your streets. They don't look like good guys.

I like the idea of reserving the tacticool stuff in the armory and keeping the more approachable appearance as the default look for officers. At least that way when shit hits the fan they can keep their elite doorkicker appearance. The only thing I miss are the kneepads, though.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:01 am #50205

you should probably change the thread title to include the change to armor for the sake of transparency

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:20 am #50222

Reimoo wrote:To be honest, I agree with paprika in the sense that current security is a bit too overdesigned and it clashes with a lot of other sprites within the game. While I wouldn't use the word edgy to describe it, I think the focus of the sprites we have right now is more directed towards making security look "cool" rather than approachable. Right now they look like the kind of guys that would kick your door down and take you off in a black van to never been seen again. While some people might think that is a good thing, just try imagining the same kind of guys patrolling your streets. They don't look like good guys.

I like the idea of reserving the tacticool stuff in the armory and keeping the more approachable appearance as the default look for officers. At least that way when shit hits the fan they can keep their elite doorkicker appearance. The only thing I miss are the kneepads, though.

I can easily add knee/elbowpads to the tactical vest so when you equip it you equip it kind of as a whole suit. Would not be hard at all.

Also the tactical vest is robust as fuck against nuke ops so it might actually see use.

RG4 · Post by **RG4** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:49 am #50236

I like the new security sprites though. They give security some form of seriousness that it should have who said you need to look stupid while protecting Centcoms Autistic DayCare?

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:44 am #50250

You don't need to look like a soldier to have people take you seriously.

Preamble · Post by **Preamble** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:14 am #50272

The old/paprika sprites look far better. The current ones are really garish and look like you have a chessboard strapped to your chest or something.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:14 pm #50327

The current sprites are simply cooler, which encourages people to play sec. The thing that pisses me off most is that this is probably going to get merged anyways despite the overwhelmingly negative poll results. RIP good sprites.

Razharas · Post by **Razharas** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:03 am #50443

If its too bad it can be reverted guys

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:04 am #50445

What metric would you use to support reverting it?

Post by **lumipharon** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:06 am #50447

Loads of shit doesn't get reverted simply because people, even if they don't like it, just deal with it.

There were good changes in this PR, but I don't like the jumpsuit changes, but I'll deal with it if it doesn't get reverted. Which I doubt it will be.

Razharas · Post by **Razharas** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:07 am #50448

Amount of people whining on coderbus

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:10 am #50449

Why not something more accessible like a forum thread/poll in a weeks time or a revert PR in a week to hold discussion?

Razharas · Post by **Razharas** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:17 am #50453

Hmm
Revert PR in a week sounds ok

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:45 am #50470

Razharas wrote:If its too bad it can be reverted guys

The same sweet lies that get told every time these happen.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:33 am #50502

Saegrimr wrote:
Razharas wrote:If its too bad it can be reverted guys
The same sweet lies that get told every time these happen.

^ seriously

Razharas · Post by **Razharas** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:11 am #50519

Im not like other coders, you can trust me guys

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:13 am #50548

I just hope there is serious consideration to revert the sprites, its been well established a lot of people prefer the ausops sprites.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:34 am #50552

The only reason why people like ausops sprites is because they make them look more threatening. Which is exactly the reason why they should be changed and reverted to the old mall-cop sprites. Officers don't need to look threatening during normal patrol, they should look friendly. When shit hits the fan, they switch to more robust armor and that's the outfit that should look like special ops.

Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:55 am

I think the ausops sprites would be fine if we just removed the kneepads and got rid of the gas mask.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:12 pm #50560

Here's how the sprites would look if we removed the kneepads on the ausops sprites.

Also a beret for comparison with the other security headwear (Beretcurity 2015?)

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:34 pm #50600

I do think we should make the Beret the standard issue headgear either sprite direction we go, helmets already spawn inside Officers lockers meaning its no trouble for them to get their helmet if they want at round start, and I genuinely think the Beret+Armour looks more appealing than the Helmet+Armour outside of more combat scenarios.

So essentially Officers can carry their helmets in their backpack and put them on when a bad situation occurs.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:55 pm #50607

What would possibly get this reverted if a massive negative poll result is not enough to prevent it happening in the first place? Also steelpoint is on the ball, beret as default headware.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:07 pm #50611

Maybe a significant reason presented to the maintainers as to why the sprite pallete for our security should be 1:1 with syndicates instead of red/grey like it always used to be? Ausops' reasoning for going darker was quite literally just it has more potential for spriting' or something stupid. If you guys want better looking grey armor, I can get better looking grey armor, but the dark armor for default officers is blech as fuck and I have yet to see someone tell me why it's somehow advantageous for our officers to look immensely threating/edgy/stormtrooper/etc besides 'they deserve to look how i want them to since the job is hard' as an explanation from steelpoint when it really isn't, security is extremely easy as far as learning curve goes, we just have complications with administration and policy enforcement a lot of the time leading to the job being OOCly stressful.

Besides this, it still isn't really a good reason for why we added the sprites in the first place other than the fact that they had a lot of detail(most of this support for these sprites when they were initially added was for the fact that they had more shader/texture detail than the old poop sprites, not for the fact that they had a dark pallete).

Let's not forget about how the ausops sprites were literally fucking awfully fat before I fixed them, several times. And how they used to make you look egg headed. And how the SWAT/riot helmet used the old sprites. And how ian used to use old sprites. Or how security officer's jumpsuits had this widly different shade of red compared to warden/HoS and it wasn't consistent at all.

It's shit like this that means things should never have been merged in the first place. Put some fucking effort into it if you really want to make sec look edgy.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:18 pm #50694

Wyzack wrote:What would possibly get this reverted if a massive negative poll result is not enough to prevent it happening in the first place?

^ seriously

Post by **MisterPerson** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:45 pm #50723

Steelpoint wrote:I do think we should make the Beret the standard issue headgear either sprite direction we go, helmets already spawn inside Officers lockers meaning its no trouble for them to get their helmet if they want at round start, and I genuinely think the Beret+Armour looks more appealing than the Helmet+Armour outside of more combat scenarios.

So essentially Officers can carry their helmets in their backpack and put them on when a bad situation occurs.

Everyone would just wear the helmet. Example: Engineers wearing yellow gloves even when they spawned with black ones on.

Now an armored beret, that would be cool.

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:22 pm #50759

So this still got added. What was the point of this poll again?

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:26 pm #50761

To conclusively prove that the coderbus doesn't give a flying fuck what the players think.

Which sprites do you prefer?