New antagonist policy - repealed

scaredofshadows · Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:02 am

EDIT: After discussing things with the head admins, there's no point in having a policy that 2/3rd of the playerbase don't want and all three head admins don't support. Consder this officially repealed. I believe there's only one actual antag ban in place under this policy and I will go remove it.

In the interest of creating a slightly more RP friendly environment, I've decided to take a firm stance on some new antagonist policies.

Lately, I've been seeing the equivalent of cuban pete rounds. I'm seeing players try to dick over anyone and everyone as soon as they land an antagonist role. Particularly egregious are the survivor roles in wizard rounds - 'stay alive until the end' does not mean immediately gun down half the station.

From now on, murderbone behavior as an antagonist may result in permanent antagonist role bans. Players who are already permanently banned from antagonist roles who are placed in an antagonist role (such as being revved in a revolution round) who display this behavior may be issued a server ban.

So what constitutes unwanted behavior as an antagonist? The test I intend to use will be 'is this player trying to ruin the round for other players instead of trying to accomplish their objectives?'. The answer to this question for most of the people trying to argue about this lately is 'yes'. We've fallen a long way as a server and devolved into stupid, mindless griefing which was previously allowed under the rules, but will no longer be tolerated.

We recognize the opportunity for creative antagonist play and will not punish for such behavior. Creative antagonist play differs from murderboning in that the goal of such actions is to foster creative situations (including some murder) rather than rack up a bodycount as if the game were an FPS.

To the players reading this and wondering if they are the type of antag that I'm targetting for antag bans, the answer is likely 'no'. It is almost always obvious who needs an antag ban and who is exercising 'creative license' as an antagonist.

scaredofshadows · Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:04 am

Specifically exempt from this policy are nuke ops in nuclear emergency rounds. Their goal is to destroy the entire station and mass murder is expected.

This is merely the first of a multitude of clarifications that will likely be necessary.

MrGlasses · Post by **MrGlasses** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:10 am #50393

Editing question...

Gadd · Post by **Gadd** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:12 am #50395

Can it be clear that this only applies to survivors? This murderboning issue only happens when it is a summon guns/magic wizard round.

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:12 am #50396

What if I am trying to do a gimmick that involves a few deaths?

mikecari · Post by **mikecari** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:13 am #50397

scaredofshadows wrote:In the interest of creating a slightly more RP friendly environment, I've decided to take a firm stance on some new antagonist policies.

Lately, I've been seeing the equivalent of cuban pete rounds. I'm seeing players try to dick over anyone and everyone as soon as they land an antagonist role. Particularly egregious are the survivor roles in wizard rounds - 'stay alive until the end' does not mean immediately gun down half the station.

From now on, murderbone behavior as an antagonist may result in permanent antagonist role bans. Players who are already permanently banned from antagonist roles who are placed in an antagonist role (such as being revved in a revolution round) who display this behavior may be issued a server ban.

So what constitutes unwanted behavior as an antagonist? The test I intend to use will be 'is this player trying to ruin the round for other players instead of trying to accomplish their objectives?'. The answer to this question for most of the people trying to argue about this lately is 'yes'. We've fallen a long way as a server and devolved into stupid, mindless griefing which was previously allowed under the rules, but will no longer be tolerated.

We recognize the opportunity for creative antagonist play and will not punish for such behavior. Creative antagonist play differs from murderboning in that the goal of such actions is to foster creative situations (including some murder) rather than rack up a bodycount as if the game were an FPS.

To the players reading this and wondering if they are the type of antag that I'm targetting for antag bans, the answer is likely 'no'. It is almost always obvious who needs an antag ban and who is exercising 'creative license' as an antagonist.

Oh boy, so I got banned from a policy from a round that occurred BEFORE this was enacted? Great fucking adminning, amigo

tedward1337 · Post by **tedward1337** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:14 am #50398

scaredofshadows wrote: Creative antagonist play differs from murderboning in that the goal of such actions is to foster creative situations (including some murder) rather than rack up a bodycount as if the game were an FPS.

ThatSlyFox wrote:What if I am trying to do a gimmick that involves a few deaths?

Some murders are okay if youre trying to gimmick

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:15 am #50399

scaredofshadows wrote: It is almost always obvious who needs an antag ban and who is exercising 'creative license' as an antagonist.

So for example:

Atmos tech making disposal pipe trap that ends up killing massive amount of people? Good, because creative and takes time and thought to put together.

Grabbing whatever weapons about can and piling bodies from the station to alpha centauri? Bad.

Do I have the right idea?

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:18 am #50402

>summon guns is no longer a murderfest
holy shit sos i thought you were cool i guess i was wrong

scaredofshadows · Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:21 am

miggles wrote:>summon guns is no longer a murderfest
holy shit sos i thought you were cool i guess i was wrong

You can take the attitude and insert it up your ass. I've seen this kind of thing happen for too long and taken comments like this in stride for far too long.

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:22 am #50408

Is there like a limit? Can I still go on killing sprees if I'm moderate about it? Such as killing witnesses, people that may potentially cause me trouble/reverse the damage I've done, other antags, people I want to rob, people being IC dicks, hijack shuttle objective...

...You know, that list is actually quite large so we better get a list of exceptions to this.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:26 am #50412

scaredofshadows wrote:
miggles wrote:>summon guns is no longer a murderfest
holy shit sos i thought you were cool i guess i was wrong
You can take the attitude and insert it up your ass. I've seen this kind of thing happen for too long and taken comments like this in stride for far too long.

the entire point of summon guns/magic is for the wizard to stew chaos by making the crew kill each other
now all it is is a suicide button, because when the wizard shows up on station, he's just going to get shot by 70 people armed with OP guns and death staves
what's the point of summoning anything anymore? what do YOU think those spells are even for at this point? what did you think they were for in the first place?

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:27 am #50415

What's even the point? Antagonists are supposed to be antagonistic, how they do that is up to them, not your autistic baystation definition. When you start trying to tell players how to have fun, you've lost as an admin.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am #50416

All the people viewing this thread.

Anyway, i imagine moderate amounts of murder as a survivor would be fine, just not full blown killing everyone that moves?

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:29 am #50417

Maccus wrote:What's even the point? Antagonists are supposed to be antagonistic, how they do that is up to them, not your autistic baystation definition. When you start trying to tell players how to have fun, you've lost as an admin.

mikecari · Post by **mikecari** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:29 am #50418

Maccus wrote:What's even the point? Antagonists are supposed to be antagonistic, how they do that is up to them, not your autistic baystation definition. When you start trying to tell players how to have fun, you've lost as an admin.

This. Might as well call ourselves Redditstation at this point.

Absalom · Post by **Absalom** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:30 am #50419

Or just remove summon faggotry. That shit has been run into the ground months ago. Trying to outlaw murderboning just isn't going to work with singularities and plasma inferno's available

EDIT: It's gotten so bad that I hope for MM + EI NATH wizard just to break up the summon gayshit/ 'friendly' wizards that we only seem to get anymore.

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:30 am #50420

You should be looking at other issues. Lets not make policy based on 3 shit wiz rounds.

Being a antag allows for a lot of freedom without admins breathing down your neck.

Incomptinence · Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:32 am

Well while I personally almost never murderbone (unrobust scrub + turning antag roles off occasionally + lack of personal interest) I strongly disagree with this policy. What about mass destruction weapons like the singularity and bombs? Controlling the death count on those seems infeasible. Why are only nuke ops exempt? Wizards, cultists constructs and malf or traitor AIs (AI by nature can't scoot around avoiding a kill squad very well) are often near required to kill tons of people just due to how they function in the game mechanics as overt/stationary antagonists.

Tsaricide · Post by **Tsaricide** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:32 am #50423

Antonkr wrote:
Maccus wrote:What's even the point? Antagonists are supposed to be antagonistic, how they do that is up to them, not your autistic baystation definition. When you start trying to tell players how to have fun, you've lost as an admin.

If the traitor has escape alone then I can be okay with them trying to kill everyone on the station but the problem starts when their only objective is to get mag boots or a hypo spray and they are at security in space trying to kill every officer there just for the giggles. I think sos is on the right track but the rule should be discussed first before being put into practice.

Hibbles · Post by **Hibbles** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:35 am #50424

I disagree with this change but hey, it's your server. Let's see how it goes.

Hornygranny · Post by **Hornygranny** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:35 am #50425

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1508 this was discussed a lot previously, for anyone who wants to read about it.

mikecari · Post by **mikecari** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:39 am #50426

Hibbles wrote:I disagree with this change but hey, it's your server. Let's see how it goes.

It's a shame that one man can fuck an entire community just because he's stubborn and opinionated as all hell.

mikecari · Post by **mikecari** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:42 am #50429

Spacemanspark wrote:Dude, your ban was a database error.

Not according to SoS

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:43 am #50430

Hornygranny wrote:https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1508 this was discussed a lot previously, for anyone who wants to read about it.

yes and the votes saying "never" are more numerous than every other vote combined
sos, i realize it's your server, but you've also said that's only because you physically own it, and that the community is what matters. making an executive decision like this not only goes against what you've said then, but it also goes against the community directly. as evidenced by

me, 2 seconds ago wrote:yes and the votes saying "never" are more numerous than every other vote combined

like really what the hell is going on here?

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:46 am #50432

If I had to guess, snap judgement after some bad rounds.

youngbuckliontiger · Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:46 am

I feel you mikecari. I got perma banned from all antag roles for murderboning too as a survivor in a wizard round. But it's SoS server, He can do what he wants i guess.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:48 am #50436

I don't like making sweeping statements, but if anything will ever kill this server, it's these changes that will do just that.

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:50 am #50437

mikecari wrote:
youngbuckliontiger wrote:I feel you mikecari. I got perma banned from all antag roles for murderboning too as a survivor in a wizard round. But it's SoS server, He can do what he wants i guess.
>letting a guy with mental health problems host your server
>ever

wait sos is the one who thinks he's a werewolf right?

ahahaha

AdenAbrafo · Post by **AdenAbrafo** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:55 am #50439

This policy has been a long time coming, while killing everyone may be fun it also really stifles any opportunity for interesting situations to arise during the round. Traitors shouldn't be going around with an entire armory killing everything that moves for the hell of it.

Yes, it isn't a decision that is going to make people happy but there really is no alternative to dealing with the problem it deals with. This game is about interesting situations not one guy having fun. If making it so you aren't allowed to kill everyone playing for the hell of it kills the server then so be it, it's not like the playerbase is improving with how it currently is.

mikecari wrote:
youngbuckliontiger wrote:I feel you mikecari. I got perma banned from all antag roles for murderboning too as a survivor in a wizard round. But it's SoS server, He can do what he wants i guess.
>letting a guy with mental health problems host your server
>ever

Stop being such a big salty fuck over the fact you got banned from some roles. Show some class and decency if you want your opinions to be taken seriously.

TZK13 · Post by **TZK13** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:55 am #50440

This is based off of murderboning survivors which is the ENTIRE POINT OF SUMMON SPELLS. If you're really going to go through with this SoS it's extremely shitty to ban people from all antagonist roles for doing what was standard and intended of survivors BEFORE you announced your intent to implement this change in policy.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:56 am #50441

i agree with steelpoint. i already dont want to play on the server anymore if these changes are going to stick, and i already have somewhere else i'd go instead. cue "good riddance" from like 50 people
this is the one time i feel like the word "h u g b o x" is actually appropriate

also, "encouraging rp" really isnt in the interest of the server like a lot of people think it is. it truly isnt. there has always been and will always be a schism between the community over whether to have more or less rp, but driving it in one direction or the other will just upset a huge number of players. /tg/ should never be too far from the "middle" of bay and goon playstyles. we've always been the "middle", and this is one argument where appeal to tradition really is a necessary fallacy. drastically changing the overall playstyle of the server with one move is ridiculously unhealthy. moving from your roots too quickly will fell the tree.
i would personally prefer more RP, but i'm not so selfish as to think that the entire server should change to fit my needs at the expense of others. there's plenty of other places i could go if i wanted to play differently.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:04 am #50444

I can appreciate the sentiment behind this rule, but "murderboning" as an antagonist is a very large grey area. Is it murderboning if you kill people for their IDs? What if you pick off security officers to make your job easier? How about releasing the singularity to get the shuttle called? Murdering witnesses? How do you tell if they're actually trying to ruin the round or just get people out of the way? Obviously being a survivor or rev is not a license to murder anyone you want (it's not even a real antag role imo), but mass murder is a perfectly legitimate strategy for some antagonists.

TZK13 · Post by **TZK13** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:11 am #50450

Luke Cox wrote:Obviously being a survivor or rev is not a license to murder anyone you want

For survivors yes it fucking is. Explain to me right now what reason a wizard would EVER have to fucking summon a gun for every member of the crew if there was no expectation that the crew would start fighting amongst itself.

Look at this, the original message you would get was "You are the survivor! Your own safety matters above all else, trust no one and kill anyone who gets in your way. However, armed as you are, now would be the perfect time to settle that score or grab that pair of yellow gloves you've been eyeing...".

What do you think that somebody who gets a gun and becomes an antag should do, validhunt the wizard?

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:13 am #50452

Scaredofshadows wants everyone to know that the intention of this policy is to "leniently allow people to be antags but fucking antag ban the notorious shitheads and unrepentant assholes trying to dick everyone over".

He's having posting issues and can't respond as quickly as he'd like to.

Aleph · Post by **Aleph** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:17 am #50454

I think the problem is that too many people use their antag opportunities as a race to kill as many people as possible, which usually means rehashing the same gimmick. I don't have a problem with murderboning if it's a unique once in a while gimmick, like multi-stage triggered bombs while making the AI sing Cuban Pete, but I do have a problem if someone's going to do the stun+space gimmick or flood plasma fires stationwide every fucking time they're any sort of antag, which ends up being at worst every third round.

I'm not naming names but someone's turned it into a habit to do the first gimmick over and over again. It's like the mech rampages two years ago, it's fun the first few time fighting it and then it becomes a bother, nevermind the fact that it encourges people to validhunt.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:17 am #50455

We are the middle ground.

We should not be trying to force one particular playstyle onto the server. If people want more role play they will play on Baystation, if people want more gameplay they will play on Goonstation.

Neither group will join /tg/station for that specific gameplay/roleplay fix.

moyogo · Post by **moyogo** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:17 am #50456

What about massive sabotage that leads to mass death? Or is this basically geared towards egun esword thermal playstyles?

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:18 am #50457

Luke Cox wrote:I can appreciate the sentiment behind this rule, but "murderboning" as an antagonist is a very large grey area. Is it murderboning if you kill people for their IDs? What if you pick off security officers to make your job easier? How about releasing the singularity to get the shuttle called? Murdering witnesses? How do you tell if they're actually trying to ruin the round or just get people out of the way? Obviously being a survivor or rev is not a license to murder anyone you want (it's not even a real antag role imo), but mass murder is a perfectly legitimate strategy for some antagonists.

Its very obvious when somebody is actively out to just murderbone everyone on the station one at a time. This differs from things like plasmafloods/singulo etc in that the latter tends to being a conclusion to the round.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:20 am #50458

While the point of summon spam is to make the crew too busy murdering each other to notice the wizard (or more usually, just make everyone murder each other for top kek), I think the problem there specifically is not survivors killing everyone (especially when there are often 3+ staffs of healing around), but summon spam itself.

Summon rounds are fucking shit. It happens so often, the wizard almost never achieves their goal, and it's just chaos and shit until eventually the shuttle gets called.

If we're going to have a policy like this though, try be a bit liberal atleast. Someone running around roundstart with bow and sword racking up the kills is clearly dull shit. Someone blowing up half the station with carefully placed bombs, while killing as many, if not more people, has clearly put time and effort into doing so.

More I think, it's an issue of people doing shit repeatedly. The occasional round where mcmurderboner runs about is fine, but everytime, it gets tiring. Especially when they space/gib/incinerate all the corpses just to say FUCK YOU to everyone they kill.

youngbuckliontiger · Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:22 am

Luke Cox wrote:I can appreciate the sentiment behind this rule, but "murderboning" as an antagonist is a very large grey area. Is it murderboning if you kill people for their IDs? What if you pick off security officers to make your job easier? How about releasing the singularity to get the shuttle called? Murdering witnesses? How do you tell if they're actually trying to ruin the round or just get people out of the way? Obviously being a survivor or rev is not a license to murder anyone you want (it's not even a real antag role imo), but mass murder is a perfectly legitimate strategy for some antagonists.

I always try to wipe out security first every time im traitor because it makes it easier to do objectives after.

Aleph · Post by **Aleph** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:23 am #50460

lumipharon wrote:While the point of summon spam is to make the crew too busy murdering each other to notice the wizard (or more usually, just make everyone murder each other for top kek), I think the problem there specifically is not survivors killing everyone (especially when there are often 3+ staffs of healing around), but summon spam itself.

Summon rounds are fucking shit. It happens so often, the wizard almost never achieves their goal, and it's just chaos and shit until eventually the shuttle gets called.

If we're going to have a policy like this though, try be a bit liberal atleast. Someone running around roundstart with bow and sword racking up the kills is clearly dull shit. Someone blowing up half the station with carefully placed bombs, while killing as many, if not more people, has clearly put time and effort into doing so.

More I think, it's an issue of people doing shit repeatedly. The occasional round where mcmurderboner runs about is fine, but everytime, it gets tiring. Especially when they space/gib/incinerate all the corpses just to say FUCK YOU to everyone they kill.

This exactly. Someone got validhunted recently and blew his shit in deadchat because he couldn't go on yet another murderboner.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:25 am #50461

Tell Security to get their rear in gear, bunch of slackers!

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:26 am #50462

Going to take this opportunity to remind everyone to remain civil, positive discussion is welcome but flat out attacking others is not.

Cheers.

drovidi · Post by **drovidi** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:26 am #50463

...trust no one and kill anyone who gets in your way. However, armed as you are, now would be the perfect time to settle that score or grab that pair of yellow gloves you've been eyeing...

Murderbone is the purpose of the survival antagonist. They're literally encouraged to kill whomever they'd like to kill and whomever they interact with. Murderbone is also the way that the spell's helpful to the wizard. The idea is that summoning guns leaves the crew to tear eachother apart. Survivor's a bad example of people who shouldn't be murderboning.

In general, I'd say murderbone is a problem in some game rounds, because, like with Cuban Pete rounds, they remove a lot of people from the round, and happen rather frequently. Pete was fixed through changes to the engine that made the stakes of bombing individual departments, rather than the whole station. I'd argue the problem of murderboning traitors and lings should be addressed through changes to the game as well. Telecrystal cost changes, changes to slipping, and new items have made stealthy traitors more effective, and I expect changes to the engine away from stuns and random knockouts will help.
Instead of placing arbitrary, subjective, and unwanted boundaries on what an antagonist is allowed to do, change what they're able to do. And if someone finds a flaw in the system that allows them to fill their role in a way that wasn't expected and isn't fun, figure out why they're able to do it, and change things accordingly.

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:28 am #50464

Maccus wrote:What's even the point? Antagonists are supposed to be antagonistic, how they do that is up to them, not your autistic baystation definition. When you start trying to tell players how to have fun, you've lost as an admin.

This. We aren't Baystation, and nor should we be trying to. From the start, /tg/, Sybil especially, was always about light roleplaying with a more game-y feel than most. If you want hardcore roleplaying, go to Baystation. Antag rounds are already boring enough for most of the crew, and you're just killing another way for the crew to be engaged in an aspect of the game that aren't drole repetitive jobs. You're trying to legislate a symptom of boredom with the game as a whole, rather than fixing or improving the game itself or the occupations within by making them more varied without being utter grind of repetitivity like virology, R&D, engineering and such, which will only serve to alienate the current population.

Originally, antagonist was carte-blanche to do anything but violating cardinal rules (no rape, etc.), and was seen as a reprieve from being constrained as a non-antagonist. It shouldn't be just another restricted role, where you have to worry if you're going to get banned for doing [x]. Furthermore this will just make changeling rounds even worse - there are few of them, they'll have their hands tied under this policy, so most of the crew will be having fun playing 'extended' every changeling round.

Furthermore, SoS, you call removing people from the round griefing, but the reality is that the job of the antagonist is to remove people from the round and progress it in the process thereof. How they do so has always been up to them, and that it should be. How else do you expect the shuttle to be sent?

You seem to be complaining about a dearth of creativity, but I challenge that and say the problem is that there are few ways to implement creativity in murder effectively. A disposals slide into singuloth takes five seconds to dismantle, and fifteen minutes, at least to assemble, and will kill, at most, a few fools and it will immediately paint you with a gigantic target on your back, either during construction, or after. There are so few interesting, especially job-specific tools for traitors that are effective, while, once you get caught for murder, killing any guard you come across is the most effective and fool-proof strategy that tilts advantage to your side, and you're ordering us to slide efficacy for policy, which is nonsensical from a pragmatic perspective.

Combine this policy change (again, with no community involvement) with the combat changes in the pipeline that will utterly fuck changeling, revolution, and DA rounds especially, while making catching greytiders, traitors, and lings a living nightmare in an already-unpopular job, and it's just another point in favour that the coders and co. are completely out of touch with the userbase and wish for this server to go the way of the Baystation. We had a niche, and we're moving out of it for no apparent reason.

Edit:

I forgot to mention that going for greentext is the exact opposite method of having fun in this game. It takes about twenty seconds to get a pair of magboots as an antagonist. Then what? Killing more people goes 'against your end goals' So why the heck would you bother doing anything but call the shuttle at the very start of the round? Greentext is far too easy to achieve, and so find a different litmus test, at least.

moyogo · Post by **moyogo** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:34 am #50465

Amelius wrote: Edit:

I forgot to mention that going for greentext is the exact opposite method of having fun in this game. It takes about twenty seconds to get a pair of magboots as an antagonist. Then what? Killing more people goes 'against your end goals' So why the heck would you bother doing anything but calling the shuttle at the very start of the round? Greentext is far too easy to achieve, and so find a different litmus test, at least.

If this is a thing we definitely need different objectives. Steal > do the same job you've autistically done all day waiting for antag > 3 hour rounds while waiting for greentext = no fun for anyone.

AdenAbrafo · Post by **AdenAbrafo** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:35 am #50466

People shouldn't be looking at this policy like it's a ban against killing more than whoever you need to when you're an antag. The purpose of it is to put a stop to the people who do nothing as antags but kill everyone in uncreative ways. /Tg/station is the middle ground and will remain to be the middle ground, this is just to put a stop to something that no one likes dealing with.
One of the reasons people go on killing sprees is because they are bored, perhaps giving antags more objectives and expanding the objectives available would help.

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:37 am #50467

Ikarrus wrote:Scaredofshadows wants everyone to know that the intention of this policy is to "leniently allow people to be antags but fucking antag ban the notorious shitheads and unrepentant assholes trying to dick everyone over".

He's having posting issues and can't respond as quickly as he'd like to.

Is it a full moon or something?

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:40 am #50468

moyogo wrote:If this is a thing we definitely need different objectives. Steal > do the same job you've autistically done all day waiting for antag > 3 hour rounds while waiting for greentext = no fun for anyone.

Indeed, I posit that we need difficult objectives. If this is to be the way we are headed, I'd at least rather that greentext is something to strive for, but very difficult (one greentexter- per round) to accomplish, so you aren't bored all the time. Even if this isn't the direction we're headed (and I hope not, as I do not see one positive comment on this matter here), we may as well have harder objectives anyway.

Objectives that tell you to kill certain people in certain manners may be interesting. Problem is in the case that they die before you can get to them, so I'd say that if they die to anyone not 'you', then it's considered a success anyway.

Edit:

Ikarrus wrote:Scaredofshadows wants everyone to know that the intention of this policy is to "leniently allow people to be antags but fucking antag ban the notorious shitheads and unrepentant assholes trying to dick everyone over".

He's having posting issues and can't respond as quickly as he'd like to.

That's too fine-lined for me. That just means 'admins will antagban whoever they want depending on their mood'. Hell, the antagonist's whole JOB is to fuck everyone over, and, if they ARE notorious shitheads and unrepetentant assholes that immediately try to massacre the entire crew, you'd think that they'd be stopped quite quickly, given that they'd have a fully-stocked security department to handle them.

Fix the issues with antag rolls being done after job rolls, and the problem will sort itself out ingame anyway, by having better and more players sign up for security at roundstart, and thus making this behaviour more difficult to accomplish.

Terrible policy.