Kilo Station

[Okand37]

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The work put into Kilostation looks astounding. It takes all the departments and makes them look and crummy backwater station that set somewhere off in a distant system in space. It's non-asymmetric look is something I've personally been looking for in a map for a long time. The detail of each room makes it totally unique. Maintenance is large and messy and filled with enemy mobs; A real occupational hazard. The general vibe of this station makes me happy and I would love to play it.

PS. Do you have an estimate when Kilostation be test merged?

I'm glad to hear you're liking it so far! I went for a much more lived in, second-rate "occupational hazard" approach and I'm happy to hear the style is giving you the intended impression! In terms of testmerging or PRing, I'm waiting for my shuttles PRto be finished up as it contains some relevant duplicate files that would also be PRed with Kilo Station. As soon as we're finished there, I'll be preparing the good ole' Kilo Station PR!

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How do people get out of the gulag? Usually, they get dumped out in a public hall, or a room with public access. If I recall correctly, only Donut has the gulag prisoners end up in brig, and that's in Brig Proper, so they can sit in front of the main doors until a security officer inevitably passes by. This Gulag room is off to the side in a place few travel outside of gathering additional sec equipment at roundstart. How many people are going to be stuck screaming over comms for release from their improvised brig?

Allow me to introduce you to my handy friend effect/mapping_helpers/airlock/unres. See those white lights coming from the interior side of the gulag doors, or the two main medical doors? These allow players to open the door as if they had access so long as they're opening it from this side. In the past, we used to use buttons to allow the players to open the door to get themselves out, in the case of maps such as boxstation or deltastation before this feature was introduced.

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On the topic of Gulag, why is it so far removed from the main brig? The two routes to gulag someone is either going through two equipment rooms or through the public hallway. It seems like it was placed wherever it could fit. Maybe move the console to brig proper?

May I interest you in taking a look at boxstation, deltastation, and other previous maps that have used this more "remote" style of placing the gulag? I personally prefer the gulag being more out of the way, as it allows you to process prisoners without interruptions from the main hall, and you don't have to worry about them trying to run away if you're in a more confined area. In addition, the positioning of the gulag allows it to serve as another back door into security.

[FloranOtten]

Allow me to introduce you to my handy friend effect/mapping_helpers/airlock/unres. See those white lights coming from the interior side of the gulag doors, or the two main medical doors? These allow players to open the door as if they had access so long as they're opening it from this side. In the past, we used to use buttons to allow the players to open the door to get themselves out, in the case of maps such as boxstation or deltastation before this feature was introduced.

I always presumed that meant Unressurection. I've been using it to ensure all my maps have airlocks that stay dead!




Nice map, would send Facebook Friend request. Can we get a test merge?

[Okand37]

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I always presumed that meant Unressurection. I've been using it to ensure all my maps have airlocks that stay dead!

Wouldn't want those doors becoming... unhinged!

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Nice map, would send Facebook Friend request. Can we get a test merge?

Soon(TM)

1. Hydroponics:
In response to a bit of feedback from a concerned botanist, I've configured hydroponics to include the standard amount of hydroponics trays (from 12 to 14) as well as an additional plant manipulator. I've also moved the biogenerator to the front and replaced the desk between the kitchen and hydroponics with a fridge.

Spoiler:

[Nabski]

It looks like you've still got a firelock under the biogen. Is there a wall under it, so people can just wrench it out and walk in?

Nice use of a fruit poster.

[Okand37]

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It looks like you've still got a firelock under the biogen. Is there a wall under it, so people can just wrench it out and walk in?

The firelock was intention as it's not meant to be a "wall" per say. I took a quick look at pubby and noticed it did the same thing so I didn't much think to change it. Unless there's some hidden step I'm missing, you'd have to deconstruct it then unwrench the machine frame itself if you want to move it out of the way. I could add a windoor behind it so you'd still have to get past that too, if it helps.

Spoiler:

[skoglol]

as well as an additional plant manipulator.

The disk compartmentalizer should be next to the manipulator. It stores the DNA disks, and any useful botanist will be juggling disks when using the manipulator. While I'd love to see two manipulators, I would rather one was replaced with the disk fridge. Alternatively move the seed thingy, as its used less often.

Anyway, keep the firelock. If you dont, fires would just get in hydroponics?

[Okand37]

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The disk compartmentalizer should be next to the manipulator. It stores the DNA disks, and any useful botanist will be juggling disks when using the manipulator. While I'd love to see two manipulators, I would rather one was replaced with the disk fridge. Alternatively move the seed thingy, as its used less often.

Anyway, keep the firelock. If you dont, fires would just get in hydroponics?

Spoiler:

[Nabski]

For some reason I thought the biogenerator was one of those machines like the hydrotrays you could just unwrench and move. My bad. I appreciate that you took a second look at it anyways.

[confused rock]

>hydroponics does their job and in about 20 minutes the biogen has 10,000 mass
>one assistant comes over and gets 50 monkey cubes
no this is public autolathe all over again

[skoglol]

>hydroponics does their job

Lets not pretend this happens.

[Ayy Lemoh]

>hydroponics does their job and in about 20 minutes the biogen has 10,000 mass
>one assistant comes over and gets 50 monkey cubes
no this is public autolathe all over again

Thought something was made to counter against this.

[confused rock]

Might’ve been, point still stands about assistant wasting it all on flour or some shit

[knacker48]

Lets be honest here, if an assistant breaks into botany at most he's there to make a toolbelt cause all the others are taken

[Mark9013100]

Map looks nice, can't wait to play on it.

[metacide]

This is beautiful and I can't wait to give it a go. Absolutely stellar attention to detail.

[wesoda25]

I got to play on kilo the other day and it was awesome. Its like the perfect mixture of cozyness and danger, and embodies ss13 really well. Maint was really fun exploring, and after a brief tour the layout seemed pretty intelligent. Looking forward to playing on it.

[Okand37]

Bit of an update on how we're doing:

So far we've ran our first test merge round and things went pretty well! There was a few things that warranted fixing, changing, or tweaking and they are as follows:

1. The Solar Arrays:
Despite local tests working, the solars proved to be uncooperative with their asteroid homes and have been opened up to space. After testing each solar array, they should all be receiving power. As much asteroid as possible was kept without seriously hampering the power generation capabilities of the solar arrays. You can see the changes with the new map render here:

Spoiler:

2. The Captain's Office:
I've decided to take a second look at the captain's office. While I stay true with the theme of the map being more open with many rooms having multiple ways in and out, and lowering the overall security of some areas, the two maintenance doors was somewhat excessive for such a vital area of the station. I've opted to move one of the maintenance doors into the upload transit access foyer, and put a shutter that can be toggled infront of the "tactical relocation" escape door.

Spoiler:

Minor Updates & Fixes:
Aside from the aforementioned changes, here are a few other small fixes or changes:

1. The ORM has had its input and output directions set accordingly. It'll now take minerals from the inside (right side), and deposit them on the outside (left side) as intended.
2. The camera in the supermatter engine's laser room has been moved so it is no longer destroyed by the emitters.
3. As virtual reality has been removed, the virtual reality machines in the recreation area and the permanent brig have been replaced by arcade machines. Game on!
4. The security maintenance door access has been fixed. There was an error in which it was set to req_one_access with maintenance or security access; it will now only respond to security access (63).
5. Robotics and Research & Development were both missing windoors for their desks, this has now been corrected.

[SpaceManiac]

I really like the look of the enclosed arrivals and gulag shuttle docks!

I was going to comment about it being weird that arrivals and escape are directly adjacent... but it seems like Pubby and Donut are like that too, so I guess it isn't a problem in practice? They're totally opposite on Box and Delta and at 90 degrees on Meta.

Be sure to check for atmos inconsistencies (Enable Debug Verbs and Show Roundstart AT Markers/List). In fact just going through all the Mapping verbs may help you spot minor issues.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

why have every maint tile filled with dirt janitor job is already busy with cleaning actual areas with ppl instead of remote areas which will end up flooded with deadly simplemobs 10 minutes in

[Dr_bee]

I love how enclosed it is. It will be hell on highpop, but it really makes melee combat risky and ranged combat un-optimal. Overally looks like a fun map, cant wait to test it.

Remove the moonlight sword though. or make it not a child of the null rod. I dislike cult but having a free null rod is kind of lame.

[Okand37]

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Remove the moonlight sword though. or make it not a child of the null rod. I dislike cult but having a free null rod is kind of lame.

It has already been changed into a subtype of a different weapon. Glad to hear you like the map though!

[Kenteko]

I love Kilo Station and I think the hostile maint is a good thing, but I'd make a little bit of a suggestion:

Instead of using normal means of defense, like say R walls, it wouldn't be bad to see some more active defenses that looked like they were put together by the lowest bidder. As an example, stick two nested turrets outside of the armory in space, if only to make it a hostile area to maneuver, but then make it so that the walls themselves are a bit less reinforced (and maybe even stick a window there). This would make the armory a kinda "no pass zone" in space due to the turrets, but also make it hilariously vulnerable to things like a meteor.

Give the cap office a blatant entry from maint as you had, but stick a turret at the end of the hallway to make it more like a "Do not pass here"

You have a bunch of awesome active defenses/hostilities, but none that seem put together by the crew. I love that feel, but even if we moved into this beat up station, we'd likely jury rig our own stuff too.

[JedediahJameson]

Like it overall, but Hydroponics feels *really* cramped. Constantly running into the other two botanists and scrambling for the seed generator way at the bottom was common. The windoors on the side they're on blocking the starting produce and the biogenerator being public feels off, too. The kitchen also felt a bit cramped, but I didn't spend much time in there besides being dragged by cannibalistic chefs who tried to convince sec I committed suicide.

Starting with a pack of strange seeds was nice, and two DNA manipulators is cool for not having to fight the others for use of the one.

Maybe cut out the windows with the display plants and use that space to expand the department a bit?

[Jegub]

Just getting my first chance to wander now, enjoying it so far!
Got on okay in Hydro by myself for as long as that lasted.
There's a missing wire in chem, under the glass table by the bin:


The door into chem from the lobby is a bit of a liability, and medbay's reception could use a bit of tweaking though I don't have any specific suggestions there as of now.

[Okand37]

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Like it overall, but Hydroponics feels *really* cramped.  Constantly running into the other two botanists and scrambling for the seed generator way at the bottom was common.  The windoors on the side they're on blocking the starting produce and the biogenerator being public feels off, too. 

I've adjusted the position of the seed extractor to be more accessible without having to enter the little cubby desk area. In terms of the produce and seeds, they're meant to be publicly accessible for the chef or someone else to take if no one is making any ingredients in hydroponics. I'd like to see how the public biogenerator plays out, as it seems to work on pubby station and the idea is neat.

Spoiler:

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Starting with a pack of strange seeds was nice, and two DNA manipulators is cool for not having to fight the others for use of the one.

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Maybe cut out the windows with the display plants and use that space to expand the department a bit?

When it comes to the size of the map, having an upwards of three botanists is always going to be a little cramped barring radical restructuring of the room due to the single-width hallways. Although it shares that similarity with Metastation, the design is more shapely. It isn't necessarily something I plan on doing as of now.

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There's a missing wire in chem, under the glass table by the bin:

I've placed the wire and it'll be added with the next update. Thanks for letting me know!

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The door into chem from the lobby is a bit of a liability, and medbay's reception could use a bit of tweaking though I don't have any specific suggestions there as of now.

The lobby door plays into the theme of much areas being more open and having a multitude of entrances and exits. The lobby shutters does close over the door as well, but I could add a separate shutter if needed. Feel free to let me know if you think of any adjustments in specific that you feel the lobby could use!

[Okand37]

A bit of a quick update. I don't have much in the way of internet, so pushing the new updates to the PR may be delayed. In the mean time, here's what we got so far:

Updated Map Image:

Spoiler:

1. Prison Wing:
The Prison Wing has been one of the most debated areas, and is brought up rather frequently. Initially, the intention was to replace the prison yard with VR sleepers, and have the cells easier to break out of with co-operation but harder without. As VR was chopped days after the PR was put up, this left the prison in an odd spot. I've taken the time to remodel the prison entirely, adding a small yard with a garden, some arcade machines, and a library console. The hallway has also had some renovating, and the airlock plus justice vent now face aft towards the solars.

Spoiler:

2. Atmospherics Gas Chambers:
There's been some concern over the viability of the atmospherics gas chambers. While having them more in line with the station was an intended design choice, I can understand the concern the gas miners bring with it being easy to sabotage or flood the station. As a result, I've done what I can with the space available to fortify them and add some space inbetween the station and the gas chambers. The gulag area and its surrounding maintenance has been slightly altered and compressed because of this.

Spoiler:

Minor Updates & Fixes:
Some small changes:

1. The AI Chamber APC has been moved towards the interior side of the chamber, infront of the door where the newscaster was previously.
2. Virology and Xenobiology disposal bins now go to space, and have been renamed to "deathsposal bin" respectively.
3. The exterior Apiary door now responds to chapel or hydroponics access.
4. The medical desk now has a door button to open the front medical doors. It has no access restrictions.
5. The Vault's spidery guardian has been removed as to no longer trigger the motion alarm for an eternity.

[RaveRadbury]

Any chance there could be 1 or 2 chairs in the library? I've got a quirk in the works that requires the player to buckle themselves in the library for a minute to gain a mood boost. Alternately, if the brary half of the barbrary is defined as a library area that's fine, too. Just matters what area they are in when they buckle (also making a corresponding quirk for sitting in the bar)

[Nervere]

It's been said before, but there's way too many warning stripes on this map. It makes the map just... hard to look at.
I removed all of the warning stripes on a round on Sybil and it looked much better to most people.
I encourage you to replicate my results on a testing server for yourself.
Using the SDQL2-Query verb under the Debug tab, input this block of queries:

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CALL RemoveComponent() ON /datum/component/decal WHERE pic.icon_state == "warningline";
CALL RemoveComponent() ON /datum/component/decal WHERE pic.icon_state == "warninglinecorner";
CALL RemoveComponent() ON /datum/component/decal WHERE pic.icon_state == "stand_clear"

This removes all warning lines, warning line corners, and "STAND CLEAR" markings under firelocks. Overall, I think the map looks smoother and nicer.
A few quick screenshots:

Bridge:

Spoiler:

Engineering:

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Kitchen:

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[Mickyan]

There's tiles with a yellow border trim that I think would look better used in place of the warning lines, and a bit more sparingly

I don't know how they're actually called but I noticed the icon for them some time ago and were used to make the border of the pool here

[FloranOtten]

We need to talk about the warning stripes. Most of the people I have talked to about Kilo have commented on their dislike of the stripes. This is an intervention.

I went ahead and bundled these two messages together as they are similar: Noisy is what I do boss. I enjoy the intricacy and detail personally, though I understand that's not for everyone. I do think it helps to combine with the rest of the map to give it a very unique vibe, however. I primarily use them for segmenting colours, but I enjoy the contrast they give as there's no other "full border" type decal as of now. I'd be more than willing to use another type of full border if we had them, but we don't.

I can see how you'd like design and the amount of detail but it really isn't for everyone. Have you ever heard of the saying 'adding by removing'? Sometimes less is more, as too much detail can make it very hard to look at. As nervere pointed out, the map looks fine without them.

[wet socks]

Bots like beepsky and medibots don't currently patrol the station because there are no bot beacons underneath the floors!

[Atlanta-Ned]

Kilo station is now on renderbus https://atlantaned.space/renderbus/

[oranges]

stop posting about the warning stripes you feral mongrels, it only needs to be said once, if the map maker doesn't want to take your feedback on board, too fucking bad, it's a design and aesthetic decision. Suck it up.

[NoxVS]

Chaplains don't have access to the doors above the mass driver despite having access to the maintenance on both sides of them.

Also at EVA, the door into maint uses lowercase letters (e.v.a. maintenance)

[Yakumo_Chen]

Swarmers can flood plasma from atmos

[Dr_bee]

Swarmers can flood plasma from atmos

Last I checked swarmers cant open up windows to space, which there is one between atmos and the plasma tank.

[confused rock]

It’s the designer’s choice, yeah oranges, but if almost everyone fucking hates the aesthetic choice, guess what? They’re going to have to play the map. They’ll be stuck with the warning lines. If everyone hates something that they’ll have to see then they can complan.

[Ayy Lemoh]

It’s the designer’s choice, yeah oranges, but if almost everyone fucking hates the aesthetic choice, guess what? They’re going to have to play the map. They’ll be stuck with the warning lines. If everyone hates something that they’ll have to see then they can complan.

Confused, you're right. We shouldn't be forced to look at design choices that we don't like.

I think that in order to do this, we'll have to basically come up with an argument on so many things that people don't like such as 3/4 sprites, the clashing color schemes between all our sprites, and so much more if a man went through the effort to catalogue all of this.

Confused, the point isn't "you are bad for not liking map design" however the point is that this argument won't work as long as shit, like what I just mentioned, is an issue.

Also, it is true that removing stuff from a map is easier than spriting, but that doesn't mean it will be removed just because you or multiple people dislike it. It depends on coderbus' opinion or if almost everyone agrees. If we relied on the word of a single person, even if it was fucking MSO himself, who said other people disliked something then Pubby would be fucking gone right now. I bet only boxstation would be around if that was the case.

[Yakumo_Chen]

Swarmers can flood plasma from atmos

Last I checked swarmers cant open up windows to space, which there is one between atmos and the plasma tank.

they were managing it last night, so I assume there's something preventing the message.

[Tarchonvaagh]

So why isn't this getting merged? I am pretty excited and surely I'm not alone with this. MERGE

[Ayy Lemoh]

So why isn't this getting merged? I am pretty excited and surely I'm not alone with this. MERGE

The mapmaker hasn't come back yet.

[pubby]

kilo stands for killed okand

rip

[Tarchonvaagh]

So why isn't this getting merged? I am pretty excited and surely I'm not alone with this. MERGE

The mapmaker hasn't come back yet.

aw

EDIT: Okay, so for some reason i was unable to see the later posts, maybe some eu shit since i am on a holiday in another continent i can see it now sorry for the "shouting".

EDIT2: im an ape because i haven't noticed that i am on the second page ples disregard my idiotism

[Okand37]

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...

SPACE STATION 13

Episode V

KILO STATION STRIKES BACK

It is a dark time for the Syndicate. Although Kilo Station has been destroyed, Nanotrasen Private Security Forces have driven the Syndicate forces from snowdin base and pursued them across the galaxy.

Evading the dreaded Nanotrasen Starfleet, a group of freedom fighters led by Verena Knox has established a new secret base on the remote ice world of snowdin 2.0.

The evil lord Boxstation, obsessed with finding young Knox, has dispatched thousands of github complaints into the far reaches of space.....

Now that I have the time to continue working on Kilo Station, I'll be updating it and grinding out what issues I can. I'll update the map overview images when possible, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on what could be changed or improved in the coming updates!

[Mickyan]

? https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/46367

Looking forward to it being finished, current maps have gotten really stale

[Okand37]

? https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/46367

Looking forward to it being finished, current maps have gotten really stale

limitless power

[SpaceManiac]

which map are you going to highlander out

[Okand37]

which map are you going to highlander out

oranges initially suggested boxstation

[Sandshark808]

which map are you going to highlander out

oranges initially suggested boxstation

>tfw not donut

[Iatots]

Much like Delta, this station has a spawling maint city but no actual crew recreational area apart from dorms and arguably the bar, which by the way I love being split from the cafeteria. Open mingling areas are in short supply on every station and IMO it makes RP more difficult because it forces every interaction that's too roomy for a workplace into stab-alley. More experienced players have no qualms about navigating the dark corridors around the station but the combined janky navigation, isolation and all around feeling of illegitimacy of the area disencourage substantial commitments by the crew to most RP driven group activities.

[Reyn]

I really want to see this in action, but at the same time I know that, at least on bagil, we're never going to fucking see this map because everyone votes fucking bagil.

Good work though!

Also, is it really the best idea to have the captain's office that close to botany?