Some Ideas to make hivemind not such a shitty mode.

[Isy232]

I think hivemind is an interesting game mode, I just think that the hiveminds themselves are too weak to really have a chance at greentext.

I think they need to be buffed, I have though of 2 options.

1: Hiveminds no longer resist mindshield implants.
It might seem simple, but I think it would help make hiveminds more viable as there will be no perfect way to check if you are a hivemind or not. I think you shouldn't be allowed to use any of your powers once implanted and need to break the implant with an ability you get once implanted, requiring you to stand still for 1-2 minutes. The implant breaks, which is noticeable but not a perfect way of testing if you are a hivemind or not. I don't think it should remove all of those that you have assimilated from your hive though, it takes about 30 minutes to get a large hive currently.

2: Hiveminds do not need as many people in their hive to use their abilities.
With the current set, to get all of your abilities you need something like 25 people assimilated. This is a large number of people requiring a long time to assimilate. I think that if you only needed to assimilate 15 people to get all of your abilities and maximize their power with 20 people assimilated, hivemind could be doable. Instead of desperately trying to assimilate people faster than they die to keep your hive at greentext size, you could focus on taking out security, spreading misinformation or other things.

Those are my 2 main ideas, but I still think hivemind could be improved with a few other changes.

1: Hiveminds get some kind of freedom ability.
I think once a hivemind reaches 10 or so vessels, they should get an ability that would give them a sudden burst of strength. This would break all restraints and make you stun immune and increase your speed for 30 seconds. The drawback would be dealing obvious stamina damage to all of your vessels.

2: Round does not end once all hiveminds have been eliminated.
Often, the hivemind game mode does not cause significant damage to the station, resulting in a lighter shift which some appreciate. What I don't like is how suddenly a calm round is over instantly just because someone died and those who did long term jobs just lost all of their work.

3: Remove protect objectives from hiveminds.
Hiveminds often get the objective to assimilate "X" into the hive and ensure "X" escapes on the escape shuttle or pod alive. I find these objectives nearly unbeatable because often through no fault of your own, you cannot complete this objective. If the person you need to protect leaves the server or suicides it is completely impossible, you cannot assimilate those who are catatonic. Also, it is very hard to ensure someones safety. If toxins has an accident, atmos gets fucked, meteors come, massive shitcurity, xenobio lets the slimes loose and more, keeping a single guy alive is extremely difficult. I think this objective type should be removed completely or you should just be assigned to assimilate any department head or the captain and ensure they escape on the shuttle. This would make the objective much more possible, as heads are generally required to take the round somewhat seriously and you are not screwed over if a single guy decides he does not want to finish plating the round.

I also want to add that:
- I think if hiveminds were made more powerful, they would see each other as much more of a threat and put some of the abilities meant for combating other hiveminds to good use.
- I have currently been hivemind 5 times and have not greentexted one of them.
- Mind control sounds very powerful, but in practice it just leads to a shit ton of mindshields being ordered making victory near impossible as you are soon to loose all of vessels and therefore your powers.

Overall, I think that hivemind is a great game mode idea, but just isn't viable in its current state. Please do make more suggestions in the comments as well.

The wiki article on hivemind game mode: https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Assimilation

[Yakumo_Chen]

Make it so implanting people doesn't literally give them a list of people who are antags

the whole point of the mode is that you're not supposed to have an easy time telling who is doing the assimilating.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

maybe implanting gives a "vision" of where the hivemind is and implanting a hivemind blocks hive powers except add and implant break (usable on urself

[Shadowflame909]

Make it so that you cannot abuse mind control to literally do what the mode is against apparently. That being murderbone. I mean getting mind controlled, then being forced to walk into maint as they go into your ic tab and press sleep. That's not very fun. Apparently, the incentive against this is that the fewer assimilates they have that means the less chance at greentext. Yet, I've seen hiveminders end the round at 0 assimilates when the round ends most of the time.

My point is the skill kind of makes the mode way more hectic then it needs to be and contributes to making more murder-bone happen. Just in ways to make it look like suicide/grief.

[Yakumo_Chen]

I mean my suggestion would fix the major cause of redtext

But the only good suggestion is actually just to remove the mode

[Malkraz]

It might be interesting to rework it into something like the sentient disease, allowing it to spread among the crew more indirectly and unlock abilities as it goes before getting mind control where the real fun begins.

[Stickymayhem]

as someone who plays regularly i disagree with all statements made here

[Nalzul]

I'd like to see hivemind retain its pacifism in some ways but offer the ability to buff its hive in order to protect itself. Something along the lines of:
You are overwhelmed with a sense to protect <character name>. Do not, in any way possible, allow them to come under harm.

[subject217]

as someone who plays regularly i disagree with all statements made here

piss off ghost

[Shadowflame909]

I'd like to see hivemind retain its pacifism in some ways but offer the ability to buff its hive in order to protect itself. Something along the lines of:
You are overwhelmed with a sense to protect <character name>. Do not, in any way possible, allow them to come under harm.

If I got this over being the captain and being forced to walk into maint. Having them press *Sleep on me in my IC tab and then getting spaced out of an airlock.

I wouldn't be so salty here!

Also, that second time where I was a scientist who went into science. When all of a sudden this sec officer arrests me and then starts lasering me because he was an assimilate.

[somerandomguy]

just make *sleep and the sleep verb knock out the assimilator too

[adamkad1]

it actually would be a fun idea to turn hivemind into a sentient disease like which is purged by implanting all the vessels or something

[Zarniwoop]

How about you donkeys come up with this shit before merging such poorly designed garbage? Is it really so hard to just, like, spend 5 minutes contemplating how things might play out?

[somerandomguy]

How about you donkeys come up with this shit before merging such poorly designed garbage? Is it really so hard to just, like, spend 5 minutes contemplating how things might play out?

if it's so easy to fix then fix it yourself

[Ayy Lemoh]

How about you donkeys come up with this shit before merging such poorly designed garbage? Is it really so hard to just, like, spend 5 minutes contemplating how things might play out?

if it's so easy to fix then fix it yourself

Imagine thinking 'man sec needs better armor so literally every gun except the stechkin doesn't just automatically pierce through it'

That sounds easy. Just increase some values with some tests.

in reality, insanely hard if you actually try to do it.

[somerandomguy]

How about you donkeys come up with this shit before merging such poorly designed garbage? Is it really so hard to just, like, spend 5 minutes contemplating how things might play out?

if it's so easy to fix then fix it yourself

Imagine thinking 'man sec needs better armor so literally every gun except the stechkin doesn't just automatically pierce through it'

That sounds easy. Just increase some values with some tests.

in reality, insanely hard if you actually try to do it.

In that case the person isn't posting the the feedback thread "this is poor design lol just think for five minutes"

[Zarniwoop]

You wouldn’t need to make this thread if it was well designed.

[L_Nacho_Chaos_L]

Make mind control thrall a player and give them access to a hivechat instead of the hivehost possessing them.

[somerandomguy]

Make mind control thrall a player and give them access to a hivechat instead of the hivehost possessing them.

that actually sounds really cool

[Anuv]

This mode is so insanely bad. Short of a major rework just remove it holy fuck.

[wesoda25]

This mode is so insanely bad. Short of a major rework just remove it holy fuck.

From the start we wanted hivemind and overthrow removed. Hivemind had a bit more creativity so it lasted longer. Can we please get rid of it already?

[the_shrouded_lord]

basically, give a power that nullifies mindshields removing your access to the brain(not just brute force, make it so mindshields won't boot me out), make hiveminds stronger, incentivize silence among vessels, and for fuck sake, don't just tell the vessel who the hiveminds are. Maybe some more mass abilities or AOE abilities. Give it an endgame, there really isn't much of one for it, and its technically a conversion gamemode.

[the_shrouded_lord]

in fact, the only fucking way to make hivemind cool is to basically copy shadowling, otherwise, its so gimped its not even worth playing. Either bring back slings or remove this shit.

[Kierany9]

right now i could explain a lot of things like what the original vision for assimilation was, what changed in implementation, what concepts didn't make it, or why i've been awol for a while, but none of that matters (unless somebody actually cares). here's a tl;dr of what i'll be doing with the mode soon™.

but before that, in response to op: 1) maybe 2) no 3) no 4) it's a config, i already told the headmins to fix that 5) yes

1. Implanting will no longer reveal names. All name reveals will be swapped with pinpointers blood sense pheromone receptors a bad feeling about this. Whether the host gets revealed by mindshield, network invasion or getting assimilated, both the host and the other guy (temporarily) get a radar pointing towards the other, turning the hunt for the host from "hey his name is XYZ go kill him sec" into something the poor civvie's actually going to have to get involved in. A radar also gives the host a chance to either evade or kill the guy coming after him, and won't be a death sentence if they're, for example, on opposite ends of the station. However, the radars may not always be perfectly balanced as all things should be, which brings me to...

2. More interesting consequences for going ham. Losing your powers by falling under the vessel count was definitely a bitch to play with (and has already been removed) but we still need something to stop the station from turning into Queen's third studio album. To solve this, certain actions will hamper the host's radar (Lore: You're emitting so much big dick psi energy that you can't sense it so well outside of your own ego field while making it easier to be sensed) whereas inaction will hamper the other guy's radar. This allows for a level of granularity with the sec response that the previous method of revealing really didn't allow for outside of "pray he doesn't implant my guy" as well as giving the weaker hivemind host the stealth advantage in a hivemind VS hivemind scenario, which brings me to...

3. Turning objectives into mechanics. Assimilation was always supposed to be primarily an antagonist VS antagonist mode (key word: supposed to), and while the objectives are a little nudge, there's no reason to follow them. I'm not so clear on how to do this compared to the other two points, but ideally objectives 2 and 3 would be axed and implemented into mid-round occurrences where a vessel is singled out and the first host to do XYZ gets a powerful reward.

[Screemonster]

instead of outright mind control, have an upgraded hive sight that allows you to use your powers remotely without actually directly controlling them and thereby breaking stealth

add more stealth powers that are just shit breaking with no obvious sign for where it's coming from, least of all if they've being used via hivesight, so if you play your cards right you can use your vessels to remotely fuck shit up without them realising they're even a vessel

you keep seeing shit breaking around this guy, is he a host? Is he just one of the hiveminds? Are you a hivemind without knowing it?

for the hivemind, maybe you had a chat with the bartender earlier, assimilated him, and now you're gonna hide and use him as a conduit to assimilate whoever wanders into the bar to chat? Oh, the geneticist came in? Quick, get him, camp him out and have him assimilate anyone that comes through cloning.

edit: if you want a loud meme power that fits the theme, give them mindswap

[the_shrouded_lord]

i already mentioned adding in either shadowling or lifeweb THEY's fleshmelding to the mix, it'd be a cool endgame

[somerandomguy]

Actually mindswap would be a really cool endgame, especially if you fluff it as the actual antag being something that snuck into the station in control of the initial hivemind's body

[Skillywatt]

1. Implanting will no longer reveal names.

ehh +/-

I think your solution would be a little too difficult to deal with but maybe you can do like a middle ground.

I agree completely revealing the name makes it ez mode and you get crushed by security pretty quick, maybe give a random hint on shielding instead

eg.

"A grey jumpsuit seems familiar..."

"An image of someone with dark hair flashes through your mind.."

"A sudden fear of Silicons fills your soul and suddenly vanishes..." (the hivemind is-nonhuman)

etc.

[imsxz]

feels way too easy to curbstomp a security team if you get any momentum at all. Experience is entirely from a paying as a hive mind, no salt about dying to one, only been mind controlled once or twice so I can’t speak much for the receiving end. When I get hive mind, as long as I can get to mind control safely, and ideally brute force too, I can generally snag all access and a disguise very easily, walk around doing hive mind stuff incognito and change disguise if sec ever catches on that anyone that goes near uninplanted masked guy dies. Typically I’ll meander outside a room with officers, quickly brute force assim and mind control one, harmbaton another, space both officers and they’re never seen from again. Rinse repeat until there’s no officers left. If cargos autism forted up with and getting mindshields, it’s simple enough to get some plasma canisters and spare all access cards ready to sacrifice vessels to decimate cargo without much risk to yourself.

I realize that’s likely how it’s intended to use those abilities but it feels unfair to /do/, can only imagine how it feels to die to it. I like the suggestion of making hosts more noticeable the more they spam this shit and I think that’s the right direction to go in. I saw someone mention making a more stealthy/passive mind control that just let you use abilities through the person, that in its own might be too much of a nerf without compensation (maybe add some sort of hypnotism to use on vessels so that they feel less bullshitted and more in control in exchange)

[Screemonster]

okay, now I'm getting thoughts of a power for starting general low-intensity mayhem, just a straight-up "make the target harm-intent attack an adjacent mob with whatever they have in your hand" which upgrades to "smack the next person to come into range in the next 10/20/30 seconds" with more vessels, fluff it as "intrusive thoughts" or whatever.

Later on, get an AoE version that gives an entire room these urges after a brief random time delay so you can run through, hit it, and see if the room devolves into a brawl, provoke someone into hitting you so you can kill them "in self defence" right in front of people and so on.

[Anuv]

Second run as hivemind. Gave it another chance. I had +25 assimilated by the time I tried my first mind control. Suddenly in the span of 10 minutes I went from ~27 crew to 6. People I never mind-controlled were shouting my name. Cargo literally bought over a dozen mindshield crates and just spam implanted everybody. Not a single person on the shuttle was unimplanted. There's absolutely no way this mode should remain in its current state.

[Pizzatiger]

Brute forcing shouldn't destroy a loyalty implant but just bypass it. This way bruteforcing people with implants is actually impossible instead of -oh hey my implant went out, time to kill anyone not implanted near me-

[somerandomguy]

Brute forcing shouldn't destroy a loyalty implant but just bypass it. This way bruteforcing people with implants is actually impossible instead of -oh hey my implant went out, time to kill anyone not implanted near me-

There should be something slightly less costly than mindshields to remove them from the hive though, so you don't have to replace the implant

[zxaber]

Mind control continues to be a shitty idea. There is no way whatsoever that you know you are assimilated until a power is used at your expense, and mind control is a great way to just muderbone. Suddenly just losing control and watching your body attack things feels terrible. And while we accept that sometimes death occurs without us being able to stop it, there's generally some counterplay available. Sleepy-pen gives the "feel a prick" message, flashes are visible in-hand, grenades beep before activating, and so on. Generally, the point of antags is to allow the game to be fun for everyone. Even with normal tator murderboners, there's a chance you can get away, or disarm the tator, or slip them, and win the fight. There is enjoyment to be had in trying to improving as a player even in situations where the odds are against you. But to just suddenly and without warning lose control altogether, and come back to being in crit? There's no counterplay unless you get implanted because a hivemind revealed themselves.

I honestly don't see a good way to balance mind control. As soon as you use it on someone, they'll know they're assimilated, and they will rush to sec at their first chance to get implanted. So it seems like you only really use it when you're willing to lose the pawn anyway, which just ties back to the issue of the person dying with absolutely no warning at all. Replacing it with the forced-objective idea at least keeps the person in the round and playing, and wording it right should prevent most people from seeking out mindshields willingly and would mean that the ability can be reliably used without losing a host.

[Shadowflame909]

Mind control continues to be a shitty idea. There is no way whatsoever that you know you are assimilated until a power is used at your expense, and mind control is a great way to just muderbone. Suddenly just losing control and watching your body attack things feels terrible. And while we accept that sometimes death occurs without us being able to stop it, there's generally some counterplay available. Sleepy-pen gives the "feel a prick" message, flashes are visible in-hand, grenades beep before activating, and so on. Generally, the point of antags is to allow the game to be fun for everyone. Even with normal tator murderboners, there's a chance you can get away, or disarm the tator, or slip them, and win the fight. There is enjoyment to be had in trying to improving as a player even in situations where the odds are against you. But to just suddenly and without warning lose control altogether, and come back to being in crit? There's no counterplay unless you get implanted because a hivemind revealed themselves.

I honestly don't see a good way to balance mind control. As soon as you use it on someone, they'll know they're assimilated, and they will rush to sec at their first chance to get implanted. So it seems like you only really use it when you're willing to lose the pawn anyway, which just ties back to the issue of the person dying with absolutely no warning at all. Replacing it with the forced-objective idea at least keeps the person in the round and playing, and wording it right should prevent most people from seeking out mindshields willingly and would mean that the ability can be reliably used without losing a host.

Mind controlling gets turned into temporary brainwashing when

[Ayy Lemoh]

Some ideas I came up with especially since I realized some of the hivemind's abilities are like the psionics from XCOM EU. It won't fix me thinking the antag is dumb due to it's objectives and existence however it'll fit the theme of psionics.

1. Reading people's minds (IC notes aka the thing where your traitor uplink is)
if you have hive sight then you should, if this was realistic, have this ability as well. I was thinking of lifeweb psionics (from the limited knowledge i know or heard of) and thought this would actually fit the antag even if it would be useless 95% of the time.

2. Forcefields need a different sprite than the fucking wizard wall.
Personally I think it should be purple like xcom psionics however it would be nice if it wasn't just wizard sprites. edit: if one was really lazy then you could look for the holy ward trap or something. i never see it get used.

3. Medullary Failure sounds lame as fuck
Killing someone with a heart attack sounds like the most lame fucking usage of psionics I have ever heard. It DOES make sense however I feel like there should be something else.

[Dr_bee]

3. Medullary Failure sounds lame as fuck
Killing someone with a heart attack sounds like the most lame fucking usage of psionics I have ever heard. It DOES make sense however I feel like there should be something else.

Scanners brain explosion?

[Shadowflame909]

3. Medullary Failure sounds lame as fuck
Killing someone with a heart attack sounds like the most lame fucking usage of psionics I have ever heard. It DOES make sense however I feel like there should be something else.

Scanners brain explosion?

You just gave me an idea.

Those lethal hallucinations aren't really used.

What if Assimilators could give people that?

An endless arm following them till their dooms.

[zxaber]

1. Reading people's minds (IC notes aka the thing where your traitor uplink is)
if you have hive sight then you should, if this was realistic, have this ability as well. I was thinking of lifeweb psionics (from the limited knowledge i know or heard of) and thought this would actually fit the antag even if it would be useless 95% of the time.

Hey, what will totally make this hated antag more well received? If we let them also just ruin rounds for traitors.

Y'know, I actually had a pretty bad round earlier today as traitor. I finally roll it for the first time in what feels like a while, but get thrown into a role I didn't choose, murdered just as I was getting things together, and then murdered again when I got cloned (by the same borg that cloned me). I was so salty I had to quit the game and go play something else. But you know what? It's okay, because except for being given the wrong job, I can identify failures on my part almost every step of the way. Places where I just misread the situation, where I didn't think things through, and where I slipped up. I can improve, and be better at this game, which makes me want to come back after such a terrible round.

You know what doesn't inspire thoughts of improvement and overcoming pervious challanges? When some side antag can just assimilate you with no warning, read your IC notes to see you're a tator, and then meme-control you into dropping your uplink and spacing yourself. In a game where I can wait a week or more to finally roll traitor, that sounds absolute bullshit.

[Kierany9]

A PR for my the first two changes I mentioned is currently up and pending review.

2. Forcefields need a different sprite than the fucking wizard wall.
Personally I think it should be purple like xcom psionics however it would be nice if it wasn't just wizard sprites. edit: if one was really lazy then you could look for the holy ward trap or something. i never see it get used.

Not a spriter, but I've been meaning to make a sprite for it (or get someone to do it) for a while, preferably something 3x3 and purple.

3. Medullary Failure sounds lame as fuck
Killing someone with a heart attack sounds like the most lame fucking usage of psionics I have ever heard. It DOES make sense however I feel like there should be something else.

Scanners brain explosion?

You just gave me an idea.

Those lethal hallucinations aren't really used.

What if Assimilators could give people that?

An endless arm following them till their dooms.

That sounds metal and I want to add it. I'm pretty sure it's necropolis stuff but I've never touched lavaland so if someone could confirm that'd be great.

[somerandomguy]

A PR for my the first two changes I mentioned is currently up and pending review.

2. Forcefields need a different sprite than the fucking wizard wall.
Personally I think it should be purple like xcom psionics however it would be nice if it wasn't just wizard sprites. edit: if one was really lazy then you could look for the holy ward trap or something. i never see it get used.

Not a spriter, but I've been meaning to make a sprite for it (or get someone to do it) for a while, preferably something 3x3 and purple.

heirophant crusher trophy barrier would work if you meant 3x1
it's already used for a thing but it would be pretty obvious that it wasnt made by a crusher if it's on the station

[Ayy Lemoh]

fair points

Yeah, I can see why now without reading the full post you made. It seemed better in my head however I was too tired to remember that most antags are complete dickheads.

So not the ic notes thing (or the thing I actually did think of where I heard those fucking space station psy guys can see what you type) however I think that more interesting stuff should be added. The current stuff sounds boring and I've never seen/heard hiveminds do anything interesting while alive.

If this thing already did exist then if Hivemind is a main antag and the round ends if all are dead then you wouldn't be able to roll as a traitor. If you're a traitor during hiveminds due to admins then I doubt you really stood a chance either way. If you're a traitor during hiveminds without admin involvement then that would suck.

[Anuv]

Given it a little more thought:

-Defensive abilities need to be buffed immensely. Make one of their abilities do an AoE knockdown/stun to give them a chance to escape when caught. Maybe an EMP or a wizard door open. The lack of a single reliable defense ability sucks so much. You don't have time to break/mind control sec if you get caught when they're dragging you around the entire time. And it takes 5 seconds for them to try and implant you.

-That said: mindshield implants should do absolutely nothing. They for sure shouldn't reveal the hivemind nor should they protect the crew. There's absolutely no way to tell who's a changeling whatsoever until they voluntarily start to use their abilities - why should hiveminds have an insanely easy way to get outed, especially when they have practically zero defense? I think this would really amp up the paranoia and make sec work harder than >round up all crew >spam implant everyone that's been happening literally every single round.

-"Break" shouldn't actually remove a mindshield implant, that's so stupid. Literally anyone who has an implant will notice right away when it gets removed. And then they just go to cargo and get another one. Make "break" simply penetrate mindshields if you have to keep it. I still think mindshields should do squat in general.

-Your name should definitely not be revealed for sure. And all cooldowns should be lowered.

Basically yes these are all huge buffs because being a hivemind is literally misery in every way.

[zxaber]

So basically, Anuv, once you know you're assimilated you should just suicide because there's no way out?

[Stillplant]

How about making the cure to being assimilated alcohol? The more drunk you get, the weaker the hivemind host's abilities, when used on you, become, and if you get drunk to dangerous levels, you will get deassimilated. The idea is that in order to protect yourself from the hivemind host, or rid yourself of his influence, you need to make yourself vulnerable to more conventional attacks, and incapacitate yourself.

[zxaber]

I'll break ranks here and say that sounds almost too easy to really screw over the hivemind. While I absolutely dislike mindcontrol and how there's zero counterplay possible, there's no need to make hiveminds totally useless.

That being said, if balanced right, it sounds like a fun time for the Bartender, and it could be a neat way to decouple hiveminds from sharing the same counter as revs and cult. Even if mindshields prevent weak hiveminds from assimilating (to keep sec or the Cap protected for at least a little bit), they could be allowed to be bypassed earlier and really be pushed into a side role with good ol' booze gaining its shining moment of glory.

[Stillplant]

Well, I think drunkness would have to be made more dangerous in order for that to be a balanced weakness. Like, if you drink too much, you black out, and while in this unconscious state, you slowly deassimilate. Add a risk of puking, and then choking on your own puke. If you see somebody choking on their own puke, you can clear the obstruction by clicking them with help intent.

So basically, in order to safely deassimilate, you need somebody to babysit you while you are unconscious. Either that, or risk never waking up. Let the host know that one of their vessels is deassimiliating, and let allow them to know where their vessels are at any time (I'm picturing it similar to the blood sense that tells cultists where the sacrifice target is), and deassimilating becomes very risky.

[Kierany9]

2. Forcefields need a different sprite than the fucking wizard wall.
Personally I think it should be purple like xcom psionics however it would be nice if it wasn't just wizard sprites. edit: if one was really lazy then you could look for the holy ward trap or something. i never see it get used.

1. Implanting will no longer reveal names. All name reveals will be swapped with pinpointers blood sense pheromone receptors a bad feeling about this. Whether the host gets revealed by mindshield, network invasion or getting assimilated, both the host and the other guy (temporarily) get a radar pointing towards the other, turning the hunt for the host from "hey his name is XYZ go kill him sec" into something the poor civvie's actually going to have to get involved in. A radar also gives the host a chance to either evade or kill the guy coming after him, and won't be a death sentence if they're, for example, on opposite ends of the station. However, the radars may not always be perfectly balanced as all things should be, which brings me to...

2. More interesting consequences for going ham. Losing your powers by falling under the vessel count was definitely a bitch to play with (and has already been removed) but we still need something to stop the station from turning into Queen's third studio album. To solve this, certain actions will hamper the host's radar (Lore: You're emitting so much big dick psi energy that you can't sense it so well outside of your own ego field while making it easier to be sensed) whereas inaction will hamper the other guy's radar. This allows for a level of granularity with the sec response that the previous method of revealing really didn't allow for outside of "pray he doesn't implant my guy" as well as giving the weaker hivemind host the stealth advantage in a hivemind VS hivemind scenario.

These have both been implemented.

How about making the cure to being assimilated alcohol? The more drunk you get, the weaker the hivemind host's abilities, when used on you, become, and if you get drunk to dangerous levels, you will get deassimilated. The idea is that in order to protect yourself from the hivemind host, or rid yourself of his influence, you need to make yourself vulnerable to more conventional attacks, and incapacitate yourself.

This idea is so stupid and I love it.

[datorangebottle]

I think hivemind is an interesting game mode, I just think that the hiveminds themselves are too weak to really have a chance at greentext.

agreed. Hiveminds in their current state aren't enough of a threat, in my opinion. Traitors are more likely to cause damage than Hiveminds.

1: Hiveminds no longer resist mindshield implants.

Mindshield implants themselves are a huge problem with the round; giving security a reliable list of every hivemind when someone is implanted is mega shit. So I do agree with this change, it at least nerfs their importance.

2: Hiveminds do not need as many people in their hive to use their abilities.

Could be more fun, allowing the game to escalate more quickly.

I think once a hivemind reaches 10 or so vessels, they should get an ability that would give them a sudden burst of strength. This would break all restraints and make you stun immune and increase your speed for 30 seconds. The drawback would be dealing obvious stamina damage to all of your vessels.

Seems neat. I wouldn't mind it, it's not completely busted and they need some way of actually getting away from sec.

2: Round does not end once all hiveminds have been eliminated.

Yes. Wizards end the round because they have catastrophic effects on the station, along with revs? Im not sure about cultists. Hivemind has almost no effect on the station besides people randomly offing themselves.

3: Remove protect objectives from hiveminds.

Protect objectives are the mega gay.

- I think if hiveminds were made more powerful, they would see each other as much more of a threat and put some of the abilities meant for combating other hiveminds to good use.
- I have currently been hivemind 5 times and have not greentexted one of them.
- Mind control sounds very powerful, but in practice it just leads to a shit ton of mindshields being ordered making victory near impossible as you are soon to loose all of vessels and therefore your powers.

I have never seen a hivemind greentext. One of my potential greentexts was ruined by the other 'minds being mega faggots and acting too early, causing a mindshield cascade.

Overall, I think that hivemind is a great game mode idea, but just isn't viable in its current state. Please do make more suggestions in the comments as well.
I suggest they be taken from main antagonist rotation and made into mid-round antagonists. They're a lot scarier when they can mind control traitors / changelings.

How about making the cure to being assimilated alcohol? The more drunk you get, the weaker the hivemind host's abilities, when used on you, become, and if you get drunk to dangerous levels, you will get deassimilated. The idea is that in order to protect yourself from the hivemind host, or rid yourself of his influence, you need to make yourself vulnerable to more conventional attacks, and incapacitate yourself.

This is an amazing idea and I love it. It involves the bartender in a gamemode, when bartenders aren't usually involved in them beyond having a shotgun.

[datorangebottle]

I was going to make a thread, but we already had one, so, here's a bump.

Hivemind is not a strong antagonist in the slightest. In fact, it is almost on par with the Creep, if only because their powers can be almost completely nullified by an item that isn't hard to acquire. I propose a cpuple of changes:

1. Make hivemind a mid-round antagonist instead of a roundstart antagonist.
If it's ever strong enough to deserve its own gamemode, it'll be too strong. It has a similar creepy sort of flavor as several other mid-round antagonists, and it also opens up a lot of potential for the hivemind- because he could possibly MC traitors, changelings, newcops, and wizards if he's really lucky.

2.Allow hiveminds to compel people to serve them instead of just the short-duration mind control.

This suggestion is split into two parts for a reason: one change is basically the other.

2a. Give hiveminds an 'indoctrination' ability, that lets them turn someone into their thrall.

They can give them laws and objectives, but they will always have a law 0 telling them to serve their master, follow their laws, and complete their objectives. Put a limit on how many thralls they can have at once based on how many players are on the server, so that the mode doesn't just turn into Rev or Cult.

2b. Allow hiveminds to give people a specific non-magical brain trauma of their choice.

This is here because of the Hypnosis trauma. It opens up a wide range of options for the hivemind, while also solving the 'they should have servants' problem. I imagine they would have a longer/shorter cooldown and require more assimilated people as you go from mild to severe to special, but this is a very powerful ability. You can blind, mute, paralyze, and otherwise hinder your enemies with it, while also being able to buff your allies with the bluespace trauma,godwoken sydrome, and violent psychosis . If it's too powerful, the list of traumas available to the HM can be cut down.

3. Remove the ability to make/order more mindshield implants. Have a different counter to Hiveminds.

Mindshield implants make winning as a hivemind almost impossible. Once you use any of your obvious powers and leave a witness behind, everything is fucked and you go from a good chance of winning to zero chance of winning. If your victory hinges on you eliminating an entire department before they can fuck you over, that's bad design.

One idea thrown around in this thread, I think, was to make getting super drunk remove assimilated status. Temporarily physically disable yourself, but your boozed out thoughts are so confusing that the hivemind forcibly expels you from the hive to keep themselves from getting brain damage.