>fetish content

[Qbmax32]

Bottom post of the previous page:

IMAGINE arguing over this at length in 2018 we’ve done this song and dance multiple times and it’s clear the silent majority want it to remain in game

[iamgoofball]

IMAGINE arguing over this at length in 2018 we’ve done this song and dance multiple times and it’s clear the silent majority want it to remain in game

Silent Majority also voted for Reagan and the party of """"Family Values"""" aka the party that just pushed a rapist into the supreme court

Not a good point to make, it's almost like players don't know what is good for them

[MMMiracles]

how long till cats get compared to hitler with that type of argument

[wesoda25]

how long till cats get compared to hitler with that type of argument

You can’t deny that cats attract a certain crowd, be they cats or not. A static cat just got banned for not only erp, but forced. And someone else just got banned for a cat related fetish. And then the cats who took to spamming that weird shit (you know what im talking about).

Its no wonder people constantly dig up this argument, a large amount of the playerbase (and a vast majority of the world) think cats are messed up. SS13 being the creep magnet it is, the percentages vary. Jesus fuck look at the communities of places such as vore and citadel, which are very pro cat. I’m not saying everyone who plays there/as a cat is fucked in the head, but I’d definitely say theres a higher density of weird fucking cat players.

My own opinion.

[Floiven]

If they're banned because the admins are doing their jobs, then what's the problem? I don't play as a cat nor do they bother me, but letting a couple bad elements ruin something for people that enjoy a feature and behave within the established rules seems unfair. I'm always a proponent of more options being better, I hate it when things are taken away because someone feels they're not needed.

[Qbmax32]

IMAGINE arguing over this at length in 2018 we’ve done this song and dance multiple times and it’s clear the silent majority want it to remain in game

Silent Majority also voted for Reagan and the party of """"Family Values"""" aka the party that just pushed a rapist into the supreme court

Not a good point to make, it's almost like players don't know what is good for them

what the fuck do you mean? are you high?


you aren't so high and mighty to the point where YOU get to choose whats "good for the players"

i dont care about catpeople, I meme about hating them a lot but I really don't care either way. if people want it to stay in the game the MAJORITY of the people I might add then it should stay. it's not rocket science

[BeeSting12]

IMAGINE arguing over this at length in 2018 we’ve done this song and dance multiple times and it’s clear the silent majority want it to remain in game

Silent Majority also voted for Reagan and the party of """"Family Values"""" aka the party that just pushed a rapist into the supreme court

Not a good point to make, it's almost like players don't know what is good for them

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

[Xhagi]

Obligatory post.

See you guys next year for the next removal PR.

[PKPenguin321]

Obligatory post.

See you guys next year for the next removal PR.

>year

[somerandomguy]

how long till cats get compared to hitler with that type of argument

You can’t deny that cats attract a certain crowd, be they cats or not. A static cat just got banned for not only erp, but forced. And someone else just got banned for a cat related fetish. And then the cats who took to spamming that weird shit (you know what im talking about).

Its no wonder people constantly dig up this argument, a large amount of the playerbase (and a vast majority of the world) think cats are messed up. SS13 being the creep magnet it is, the percentages vary. Jesus fuck look at the communities of places such as vore and citadel, which are very pro cat. I’m not saying everyone who plays there/as a cat is fucked in the head, but I’d definitely say theres a higher density of weird fucking cat players.

My own opinion.

the "certain crowd" is already here and they make up a large chunk of the playerbase
you can't stop what's already happened

[Xhagi]

Obligatory post.

See you guys next year for the next removal PR.

>year

I try and be generous, okay?

[Steelpoint]

Claims of the will of the 'majority' are very odd to point to since I distinctly recall features in the past being pushed through despite a majority of players being against the feature. I also recall a significant amount of controversy during the initial implementation of the cat ears/tail feature. I think it was even disabled to begin with when it was merged.

I believe that catpeople are such a contesting issue with the /tg/ SS13 game and aesthetic style that just saying that a majority of people (may) want it is something I don't think is good enough by itself as an argument.

----

(PS: I'd be fine if the cat people organs were removed and you could set your character to spawn in with a pair of fake cat ears you had to wear on your head)

[iksyp]

i disagree with catpeople being in the game because i've played a3 with shezza

[Floiven]

IMAGINE arguing over this at length in 2018 we’ve done this song and dance multiple times and it’s clear the silent majority want it to remain in game

Silent Majority also voted for Reagan and the party of """"Family Values"""" aka the party that just pushed a rapist into the supreme court

Not a good point to make, it's almost like players don't know what is good for them

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Knee-jerk reactions and virtue signalling are all the rage now. If you're going to have something against the dude, it's his stance on constitutional rights to privacy and being pro patriot act. But it's much easier to just run with the media narrative.

Also something about catgirls.

[Floiven]

Virtue signalling?
At this time of year
At this time of day
In this part of github
Localised entirely in a catgirl removal PR?

SEYMOUR THE GITHUB IS ON FIRE

[iamgoofball]

IMAGINE arguing over this at length in 2018 we’ve done this song and dance multiple times and it’s clear the silent majority want it to remain in game

Silent Majority also voted for Reagan and the party of """"Family Values"""" aka the party that just pushed a rapist into the supreme court

Not a good point to make, it's almost like players don't know what is good for them

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

>>>defending Brett "no consent no problem" Kavanaugh just to win an argument about your favorite fetish

lmao go home

[Xhagi]

Debating real life politics while debating the validity of catgirls in a 2D space station simulator.

Pack it up lads, I think we reached the zenith. It’s all downhill from here.

[Floiven]

Debating real life politics while debating the validity of catgirls in a 2D space station simulator.

Pack it up lads, I think we reached the zenith. It’s all downhill from here.

Yeah well you know who else did that?

Hitler.

[Xhagi]

Debating real life politics while debating the validity of catgirls in a 2D space station simulator.

Pack it up lads, I think we reached the zenith. It’s all downhill from here.

Yeah well you know who else did that?

Hitler.

[Floiven]

I'm sorry I take it back please don't be sad

[Lumbermancer]

CRABS
WHEN

crabs now fuck cats

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 75#p376737

[Luke Cox]

There is no reasonable argument for downstreams to be arguing about this. It is and has been a config option for a long while now, and if Hippie or any other downstream didn't want them it would be the work of 5 minutes to change their configs to disable them.

TFW nobody addresses the most valid point in all of this

[Steelpoint]

Downstreams servers operate at their own discretion and I don't think downstreams have any major relevance in this discussion for either side. I'm addressing catpeople from a /tg/ perspective, not a downstream one.

If you want to go that route, who exactly is the chief authority on catpeople on /tg/? The head admins? The host? The coders? Who takes the final stance or who has the final say?

[Grazyn]

If players from downstream servers are rallying en masse to vote against cats and their votes aren't being filtered, then yes I think this has major relevance in this discussion.

[Steelpoint]

I have full confidence in our voting systems and administration to ensure there is no foul play in any player vote.

[Grazyn]

I have full confidence in our voting systems and administration to ensure there is no foul play in any player vote.

Administration has nothing to do with this, removal PR and the poll are entirely a coder's decision. You assume it would be considered foul play and not just downstream players who legitimately express their opinion on code that also affects them (despite being disabled in their configs, but that's a technicality)

[Luke Cox]

Vote brigading is a good point that I hadn't even considered. Unlike headmin elections, I don't think regular player polls have any kind of restrictions.

That said, I still cannot believe we're sperging out this hard about something that you can disable with a single value in the config if you really don't want it enabled.

[Xhagi]

Vote brigading is a good point that I hadn't even considered. Unlike headmin elections, I don't think regular player polls have any kind of restrictions.

That said, I still cannot believe we're sperging out this hard about something that you can disable with a single value in the config if you really don't want it enabled.

Fairly certain MSO can easily apply a ‘needs x amount of connections within x time frame’ filter if needed. But who knows (except MSO).

And it’s always like this. Catpeople just rile up certain folks. Despite two prior votes, gotta keep trying.

[Steelpoint]

Catpeople are going to remain a point of contention for a very long time, if the prior years are any indication.

The only other feature I can recall that maintained a long heated debate over a long period of time was the movement speed changes, and those were slowly reverted (mostly by unintentional server changes I think) over the years.

---

Catpeople remain in the public mind because they are so utterly out of place next to every other non-human round start species we have.

In my opinion, any "acceptable" species falls into one of three categories...

1: A true historical handover that has been in the game for longer than most players (Lizardpeople).
2: They possess major mechanical disadvantages and/or social disadvantages over Humans (Plasmapeople, Flypeople).
3: A truly unique species that is sufficiently unique looking in comparison to a Human, and has never really been done before (Mothpeople).

In my opinion, Catpeople don't fit into any of the above. As I have stated, they are a boring, weird species that does not mesh well with the game. I oppose Catpeople for the same reason I'd oppose Dogpeople or akin, because they do not fit at all.

[darkpaladin109]

IMAGINE arguing over this at length in 2018 we’ve done this song and dance multiple times and it’s clear the silent majority want it to remain in game

Silent Majority also voted for Reagan and the party of """"Family Values"""" aka the party that just pushed a rapist into the supreme court

Not a good point to make, it's almost like players don't know what is good for them

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Pretty hard to believe someone's innocent when they dodge questions and lie about their past.

[Xhagi]

You can take the arguing about politics to the off topic thread dedicated to politics. Back on cats.

Catpeople are going to remain a point of contention for a very long time, if the prior years are any indication.

The only other feature I can recall that maintained a long heated debate over a long period of time was the movement speed changes, and those were slowly reverted (mostly by unintentional server changes I think) over the years.

---

Catpeople remain in the public mind because they are so utterly out of place next to every other non-human round start species we have.

In my opinion, any "acceptable" species falls into one of three categories...

1: A true historical handover that has been in the game for longer than most players (Lizardpeople).
2: They possess major mechanical disadvantages and/or social disadvantages over Humans (Plasmapeople, Flypeople).
3: A truly unique species that is sufficiently unique looking in comparison to a Human, and has never really been done before (Mothpeople).

In my opinion, Catpeople don't fit into any of the above. As I have stated, they are a boring, weird species that does not mesh well with the game. I oppose Catpeople for the same reason I'd oppose Dogpeople or akin, because they do not fit at all.

At least this is a better thought out argument than, “people fetish it omg!!!!” And I’m inclined to agree they don’t fit in that well. But, it’s also weeb trash. And I’m weeb trash, so I enjoy it and as do many others, even if it’s out of place. Not like tg has consitent lore or anything to make things fit anyway.

This just comes from an old literal who, though, who just comes back to shitpost and doesn’t play the game anymore. The people shall decide, as should be.

[Grazyn]

Catpeople are going to remain a point of contention for a very long time, if the prior years are any indication.

They will only remain a matter of contention if they win the poll (and oranges doesn't merge the PR anyway like he's allowed to do). Config options come and go and are always in the spotlight because headmins and candidates use them for campaigns and political capital, or just to remind people they have a flicker of power over something. How many things that were eradicated from the code, like cats will be if they lose, remained a matter of controversy for years instead of fading into obscurity?

[Steelpoint]

I fully accept that people can (sort of) agree about the awkwardness of Catpeople and still want them to be in the game. Differing opinions and all that.

They will only remain a matter of contention if they win the poll (and oranges doesn't merge the PR anyway like he's allowed to do). Config options come and go and are always in the spotlight because headmins and candidates use them for campaigns and political capital, or just to remind people they have a flicker of power over something. How many things that were eradicated from the code, like cats will be if they lose, remained a matter of controversy for years instead of fading into obscurity?

Except Catpeople have been a continual thing that has been brought up over and over since their inception. I cannot recall any other major changes that have elicited such a response for such an extended period of time.

[Qbmax32]

Debating real life politics while debating the validity of catgirls in a 2D space station simulator.

Pack it up lads, I think we reached the zenith. It’s all downhill from here.

Yeah well you know who else did that?

Hitler.

Godwin’s law


/thread

[Grazyn]

I fully accept that people can (sort of) agree about the awkwardness of Catpeople and still want them to be in the game. Differing opinions and all that.

They will only remain a matter of contention if they win the poll (and oranges doesn't merge the PR anyway like he's allowed to do). Config options come and go and are always in the spotlight because headmins and candidates use them for campaigns and political capital, or just to remind people they have a flicker of power over something. How many things that were eradicated from the code, like cats will be if they lose, remained a matter of controversy for years instead of fading into obscurity?

Except Catpeople have been a continual thing that has been brought up over and over since their inception. I cannot recall any other major changes that have elicited such a response for such an extended period of time.

All previous attempts at ERADICATING them permanently from the CODE via short-lived joke-ish PRs were shut down very quickly without lengthy discussion, with the PR creator even getting githbanned on occasion for stirring shit. You're thinking about discussions surrounding their availability through config options, and config options have always be a matter of controversy, just think of modes in/out rotation, maps, mode percentage, assistant cap, and so on.

[BeeSting12]

IMAGINE arguing over this at length in 2018 we’ve done this song and dance multiple times and it’s clear the silent majority want it to remain in game

Silent Majority also voted for Reagan and the party of """"Family Values"""" aka the party that just pushed a rapist into the supreme court

Not a good point to make, it's almost like players don't know what is good for them

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

>>>defending Brett "no consent no problem" Kavanaugh just to win an argument about your favorite fetish

lmao go home

I'm not defending him to win this argument. He was never proven guilty in court (or ever went to court for this). Our legal system is based on presumption of innocence because of shit like this. Someone will shout "HE RAPED ME", and whether the guy did it or not he's fucked. There's literally no evidence besides her testimony, and furthermore, none of the witnesses that were there have corroborated her story. She can't even remember the year it happened or her exact age.

[BeeSting12]

On topic: I can accept arguments steelpoint is making but the whole "they attract the wrong sort of players", they're "fetish content", "MUH DOWNSTREAMS", "everyone who plays them is a creepy erping weirdo... well uhhh not everyone but definitely totally the majority and not just shezza who was banned for it" are just attempts to play on people's strong emotions associated with creepiness and sexual harassment.

[Steelpoint]

Trying to use the more emotive 'fetish/sexual/wrong people' argument simply detracts from the main debate and gets everyone shitposting offtopic. People on both sides of the argument are guilty of this. Perhaps there's some ulterior motive to these offtopic discussions to detract from the argument, but more likely people are just shitposting for the sake of it.

I have to wonder, has MSO made any statements on this manner? I know its a config option so I'm curious what his thoughts, if any, are.

[Arianya]

Catpeople are only a recurring topic because their removal is in the realm of possibility, and certain people like to poke the hornet nest just so they can laugh at the reactions.

This is why not allowing roundstart race PRs without prior permission quieted things, and why this vote is a bad idea.

It shouldn't even be a topic up for discussion unless substantive change had happened (like reworking the whole premise of the game, massive changes to how non-human races are handled, etc) and if you just stuck to that the particular brand of shit stirrer would fade away out of boredom. Instead it's a perennial topic which people can poke to get a reaction.

[somerandomguy]

On topic: I can accept arguments steelpoint is making but the whole "they attract the wrong sort of players", they're "fetish content", "MUH DOWNSTREAMS", "everyone who plays them is a creepy erping weirdo... well uhhh not everyone but definitely totally the majority and not just shezza who was banned for it" are just attempts to play on people's strong emotions associated with creepiness and sexual harassment.

It's not just that - there is creepy stuff associated with them, but none of it is in the game, it's all on discord/the forums/singulo. People associate it with catpeople in the game without realizing (or realizing but wanting to get rid of the people who post it, which would fail too). It's probably why so many people hate catpeople; the race itself, while somewhat out of place, isn't particularly fetish-y at all.

[GuyonBroadway]

On the subject of down streams allow me to weigh in.

At the end of the day it isn't actually to do with those pixels on peoples heads, its to do with the people who's heads the pixels sit.

At the risk of sounding fallacious and someone bringing up the "HA HAA!! THIS PICTURE INDICATES THAT SOME OF WHAT YOU SAID MATCHES THE SLIPPERY SLOPE FALLACIOUS AUGMENT SO I DON'T HAVE TO RESPOND TO WHAT YOU SAY!" i'm going to point out who catgirls have lead to things that downstream servers find harder to ignore or just config away.

With the advent of catgirls you started attracting people to your community that are fond of catgirls and these people begin to climb the ranks within tg. "What does tg's community have to do with you fellows downstream?" you rightly ask, well the thing is once they become part of your community they end up adding stuff to the codebase they like, and because they came along with other like minded individuals these changes appear popular.

"What changes?"

Well lets rattle off a few shall we?

Well we have:
-Headpatting: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/23989
-Handholding: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/33831
-Jumpskirts: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/37809
-Blob Cuddling https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/29820
-Ligger Skirts https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/38902
-Plushie marriages and breeding https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/33184

Just to name a few, removing these takes a little bit more effort than just changing a config file, our player-base didn't want them, they aren't necessary to the game. Now not all content need be necessary and indeed jokes here and there can be funny but because of how some of this stuff is integrated in a way that makes it hard to remove once pushed downstream don't you think that we downstreamers should st least be able to voice our concerns and have them not brushed off because we're not "part of tg".


They might just be a few pixels and they might be a few pixels we can ignore but the people behind those pixels make decisions that we have to deal with, and we don't always have the luxury of just changing a config file or two.

And this goes both ways, we don't just take and expect to be catered for, downstreams provide new features to tg that tg can pick and choose at its leisure.

Like Binoculars: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/39544
Memes from anime that aren't fetish: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/37864
Big features like a nicer version of buildmode: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/40105

To summarise into two points:
1: Downstream are part of the ss13 ecosystem and deserve a say (even if small)
2: Catgirls attract people who like catgirls who will in turn add other, potentially unwanted, stuff they like that downstream people may or may not be able to easily get around.

[MMMiracles]

have you tried complaining to whoever maintains your downstream to not merge that content when it gets mirrored over by their bot instead of complaining here.

[GuyonBroadway]

have you tried complaining to whoever maintains your downstream to not merge that content when it gets mirrored over by their bot instead of complaining here.

Well for one I am one of said maintainers and two we need to keep the "core tg files" as similar as possible else our downstream mirroring tool break any future content due to github conflicts. There are ways around it buts its difficult and not always possible without doing something really dodgy that'll bite us in the arse later on.

[PKPenguin321]

reminder catpeople were snuck into the game via the system that was intended to be used for things like tattoos
tattoopeople race when

[teepeepee]

reminder catpeople were snuck into the game via the system that was intended to be used for things like tattoos
tattoopeople race when

give them this trait
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... ps-AI.html

[Cobby]

I'm keeping that qbopper

[Qbopper]

commenting on deleted posts is a crime

edit: but its in the hut if you want to meme

[GuyonBroadway]

try to be a downstream of a codebase you agree with the behaviour of, /tg/station's behaviour and mentality is no secret and has been the same for a very long time, after all, you claim your players don't want what we have to offer so why are you our downstream?

Feck off blaming catgirls for my actions, they're not my part of the game so I've never touched them. All your complaints are personal and arbitrary, go talk to oranges if you want veto power in a codebase you don't contribute to.

Because back in 2015 when hippie forked tg it was basically the "vanilla" ss13 experience so it was the perfect jumping off point for a ss13 server that was lighter on the rules. .We kept having to rebase every few months anytime we wanted any of the "cool" new tg features. Like shadowlings when they first came out, or clock cult when it first came out, the myriad of code improvements and features. However we kept getting into a situation where by the time the rebase was done it was several months out of date So we had to start again. Rebasing repeatedly was a painful process so we eventually switched to the pull stuff downstream method and here we are, we don't have to have your mentality to want to play on (what used to be) the vanilla open-source ss13 experience.

Also nice job saying we don't contribute when I pointed out a few examples where downstream servers have explicitly benefited you.

[Grazyn]

Well it's good to have confirmation that players from downstream servers are indeed voting on this poll.

[GuyonBroadway]

Okay, so you've made two PRs of which one was merged. You don't show up in the authors list on github which is why I thought you hadn't contributed ever.

So we're even now on mistaking identity.

It's also not just about what i've contributed personally but what various hippies and downstreams have contributed over the years.

Carbonhell having given you overthrow and Keriany9 (who alibet has been missing from ss13 in general till recently) having given you Assimilators.

If I am not mistaken Poojawa of citadel coded the original ahelp ticketing system.

Downstreams have given much to tg, all I am saying is that it's fair they get a say.

[Grazyn]

Forced by a coder, bypasses a config option, misleading question, downstreams and players outside the community allowed and encouraged to vote

Meanwhile, the poll about economy ended more than 10 days ago but we still don't know the results, which won't change anything anyway