2k18 /pol/

[Anonmare]

Bottom post of the previous page:

My untrained political eyes saw the following happen in the 2016 US elections:

Bernie got fucked over by a reverse Spoiler Effect, where the Democrats were so worried about a Spoiler Effect happening with him and Clinton that they didn't let him run and put a less popular candidate in the running. Democrats might have won if they went for Bernie who was more popular compared to Hillary.

Political apathy also contributed to poor voter turnout because, in a lot of people's words, they were voting between two people who they didn't really like.

Third party spoiler effects also stole voters away, and to be perfectly frank - a non-democrat/non-republican candidate has zero chance of winning in the US due to it being a FPTP system and Game Theroy tells us that Nash Equilibrium will always prevent a third party from winning outside of exceptional circumstances.

The Mainstream Media are also to blame for poor voter turnout, having grossly misrepresented facts in an attempt to dissuade republican voters and having it backfire in the form of democrat voters believing they wouldn't have to vote because the media said there was no way they could lose.


Pretty much self-fulfilling prophecies all around

[FantasticFwoosh]

Taking your point seriously your alternative candidate in Hillary Clinton who via DNC inner politics screwed Bernie out of the campaign, so really you would have voted for not even your prized candidate and obviously someone corrupt leading you to vote for Trump posed with the choice, no? If im really going to fan your arguement a fraction of the Drumpf besides the obvious demographics were disillusioned Bernie voters themselves.

Also American tee-total socialism parking that Obama era unemployment into stagnancy and hailing Justin Trundeu your lord and savoir rofl.

Trump mainly won thanks to 2 things. The first one is called Bernie Sanders. The second is the media who wanted a horse race to raise ratings because a predictable landslide victory doesn't bring in viewers so they propped him up as a credible threat to hillary and it all went downhill from there

How does Bernie's obvious (because personal attacks on political figures are always fun) hypocrisy with his own taxes & personal wealth that came out into the public knowledge after his failure in the campaign reflect upon his chances in office. And the blue collar working demographic that voted for Trump even benefit from Bernie? Healthcare was improved as a result of amending Obamacare failures, rather than pushing the taxpayer donkey to pick up the buck with a NHS 2 with all the fiscal flaws and failures that get comprehensively worse the further its spread out.

You've massively overblown him for his doddery appeasement making.

[FantasticFwoosh]

look at when trump tried to hold his wifes hand in public and got rejected.

look at his ridiculous attempts to assert dominance by doing the stupid handshake where he pulls someone towards him.

look at his tweets that scream insecurity.

look at throughout his history as a business man the attempts to sway public opinion thru use of alter egos whilst he doesn't even attempt to change the way he writes (Which is the exact same way he speaks, a whole lot of superlatives "trump has the most calls from any woman, the best woman" etc etc)

trump fills theaters of people because of his message of anti-establishment, not because he's oozing with charisma. In fact, you pretty much proved my point by posting a video of jeb who has even less charisma than trump and he still manages to fill out theaters.

Look at this person clutching for straws by the act of watching someone's every waking breath with a mixture of morbid fascination and desperation to find fault by listening to spin wheeled out by equally obsessive news networks trying to grab attention. Anti-establishment how? There's very little aligned to his actions that aren't pro-government or pro-American.

Sit down and watch the gorilla channel and move away from the news networks and chill out lmao.

Spoiler:

[cedarbridge]

Trump mainly won thanks to 2 things. The first one is called Bernie Sanders. The second is the media who wanted a horse race to raise ratings because a predictable landslide victory doesn't bring in viewers so they propped him up as a credible threat to hillary and it all went downhill from there

"Credible threat"
You mean the same news media that presented round the clock reporting about how Hillary was 98% projected to win?

Credible 2% my dude

[Grazyn]

Taking your point seriously your alternative candidate in Hillary Clinton who via DNC inner politics screwed Bernie out of the campaign, so really you would have voted for not even your prized candidate and obviously someone corrupt leading you to vote for Trump posed with the choice, no? If im really going to fan your arguement a fraction of the Drumpf besides the obvious demographics were disillusioned Bernie voters themselves.

Also American tee-total socialism parking that Obama era unemployment into stagnancy and hailing Justin Trundeu your lord and savoir rofl.

Trump mainly won thanks to 2 things. The first one is called Bernie Sanders. The second is the media who wanted a horse race to raise ratings because a predictable landslide victory doesn't bring in viewers so they propped him up as a credible threat to hillary and it all went downhill from there

How does Bernie's obvious (because personal attacks on political figures are always fun) hypocrisy with his own taxes & personal wealth that came out into the public knowledge after his failure in the campaign reflect upon his chances in office. And the blue collar working demographic that voted for Trump even benefit from Bernie? Healthcare was improved as a result of amending Obamacare failures, rather than pushing the taxpayer donkey to pick up the buck with a NHS 2 with all the fiscal flaws and failures that get comprehensively worse the further its spread out.

You've massively overblown him for his doddery appeasement making.

You don't need to know the nuances of american politics to understand that any candidate advocating the slightest socialist policy doesn't have a chance to win. Bernie as the main DNC candidate would've been torn to shreds in the final leg of the campaign. He made 2 fatal mistakes: the first was thinking he had a chance. As I said before, there are countries that are fertile gounds for socialism. The US isn't one of those. The soil is poisoned and barren, and the tree of socialism will never thrive there. This is a mistake but I can respect idealism. The second mistake however is unforgivable: instead of dropping out when he realized it was over, he kept fighting and breaking apart the party from within. Brutal infighting is normal in the european left but I've never seen anything like that in american politics. He only dropped out at the convention and by then the damage was already done, and he also managed to look like he had betrayed the revolution.

Then there's the whole other issue of berniebros switching to Trump but honestly I think those were just very young people with a very shallow understanding of politics that didn't go beyond "Bernie and Trump are both anti-establishment so they're basically the same"

[Takeguru]

Trump's win is pretty easy to figure out

The DNC put one of the most corrupt people it could as his opponent, who proceeded to insult the middle class
It could have been literally any other dem and Trump would probably have lost

[Super Aggro Crag]

Yeah i figure even barnabus sandells would have beaten trump

Too bad people in the DNC actively conspired against him then when revealed to have done so got immediately hired by the clinton campaign

[Lazengann]

The democrats pushed the worst candidate in the history of candidates, maybe ever

[DemonFiren]

the democrats pushed the worst candidate
the republicans were pushed by the worst candidate
no wonder the latter party won

[Grazyn]

The "popular vote" doesn't mean anything in a country that is just a collection of random states with pretty much nothing in common with each other, and an election system that reflects that.

[XSI]

Thats how first past the post works

Everything sucks because what are you going to do about it? Vote the other guy who also sucks? Ha!
What do you mean you'd like to vote for not invading Syria and for stricter rules against rich people abusing the system? Both sides are rich people abusing the system and they want to bomb Syria, you don't get to vote for that.

[Anonmare]

Even Approval voting would be a huge step-up from FPTP, at least with Approval you wouldn't be punished for voting honestly

[XSI]

I sort of want to hear some Dutch news actually, Amsterdam sounds nice this time of year.

Then a small selection of Dutch news
https://www.nu.nl/games/5269283/ea-ving ... rland.html
"EA warned for misleading lootbox-commercials in Netherlands"
-Advert for lootboxes in Fifa no longer allowed
-EA can appeal and go to a higher court
-Commercial implied that you'd get a super-rare player if you bought a box now, but never outright said it
-Dutch governmental watchdog for misleading commercials is slamming EA
-Small note at the end about lootboxes being gambling. But also not gambling. Because they've not publicly told anyone what the legal definition of gambling is in this country when it comes to lootboxes and have only told the devs of offending games to change it if it actually does count as gambling
-EA insists lootboxes aren't gambling though

https://www.nu.nl/eten-en-drinken/52714 ... icken.html
"Dangerous bacteria found in 'pulled chicken' sandwich
-Said sandwich is found in most major supermarkets
-The factory where it's made has alerted supermarkets about this, and they've passed it on
-Supermarkets have removed the offending sandwich from the shelves
-Should you have this sandwich of this specific production run that was bad, throw it out and send the package to the factory for a full refund

https://www.nu.nl/internet/5270288/poli ... allen.html
"Police plans to arrest 12 for DDoS attacks"
-Most didn't happen yet, they're just planning it
-One has been arrested
-He was an idiot who went on a police-run not-even-deepweb website that claimed to sell DDoS attacks and bought one

https://www.nu.nl/nucheckt/5270429/nuch ... vrees.html
"Almost 1 in 4 students has 'exam-fear'(Dutch term)"
-Examfear basically is being afraid or anxious about possibly failing your exams to the point that it causes physical problems or intervenes with your ability to actually do the exams
-Article starts with 'Judgement: We dont know if they do'
-Explains its sources for the original claim of 24% being afraid and links them
-Gives a very basic intro to what it is
-Are there more cases than there used to be?
-No, we're not sure about that either
-Conclusion: We really haven't got a clue

There is a serious deficiency of reliable Dutch news, and every single fucking news site or program is incredibly biased or agenda pushing.
I've found this one with a google but I can't say I know what direction it's biased to just yet
Enjoy
https://www.dutchnews.nl/

[Sometinyprick]

Oh dear, is it better or worse that it matters who gets in for the UK's FPTP at least for what kind of bad you want?

In Bwitish news since I haven't heard anything new about the orange in the last day... I sort of want to hear some Dutch news actually, Amsterdam sounds nice this time of year.
>Grenfell, materials might or might not be banned, journalist apathy are record high
>government fails to recruit enough counter-terrorist firearms officers missing the target by 100, calls for armed rural officers because >Devon and Cornwall are too far out of the way from the firearm units and >terrorism might happen there, ~90% of all British police officers aren't armed

The fact the British police aren't armed runs counter to literally every other police force in the world including European ones It's a misguided belief in the "community bobby" combined with politicians who are too cheap and fearful of backlash to arm them, but hey I'm sure it will be fine the first responding officer on the scene of the London Terror attacks only got stabbed fifteen times trying to swing at three knife wielding terrorists with his baton.

[Anonmare]

Don't like the idea of an armed police force in an unarmed populace. Seems like it'll lead to slippery slopes down the line

[XSI]

Unarmed police works perfectly fine

In a nation without 'diversity' and mass immigration. A culturally and often ethnically unified country is a whole lot more peaceful overall, and the cops in such a nation won't need firearms as a standard unless it happens to also deal with a huge organized crime problem

[Grazyn]

My country has strict gun laws and one of the highest cops to population ratios in europe. Every cop is armed and there are heavily armed cops pretty much everywhere, especially in the big cities. Zero islamic attacks and counting, crime steadily decreasing, police misconduct very rare to the point that a single case becomes a major media event that is talked about for years. You don't fear for your life when they pull you over and they are all mostly neutral to friendly. Most of them are fascists though, but usually it doesn't show

[ShadowDimentio]

My country has strict gun laws and one of the highest cops to population ratios in europe. Every cop is armed and there are heavily armed cops pretty much everywhere, especially in the big cities. Zero islamic attacks and counting, crime steadily decreasing, police misconduct very rare to the point that a single case becomes a major media event that is talked about for years. You don't fear for your life when they pull you over and they are all mostly neutral to friendly. Most of them are fascists though, but usually it doesn't show

What country my dude

[Grazyn]

Italy

[XSI]

As we've seen with SS13, people of right wing and/or authoritarian persuasion are often attracted to security roles
That, or their experiences as security change their attitude as far as that goes and brings them closer to authoritarianism.
Probably similar offline

[Rustledjimm]

Unarmed police works perfectly fine

In a nation without 'diversity' and mass immigration. A culturally and often ethnically unified country is a whole lot more peaceful overall, and the cops in such a nation won't need firearms as a standard unless it happens to also deal with a huge organized crime problem

ishygdtt

[Anonmare]

He's not wrong though, diversity implicitly means differences and differences invariably cause conflicts within Humans. Differences can mean anything from race, culture, religion, values and even political ideology.

To be perfectly frank, I've never seen diversity, as championed by most people, do what homogeneity couldn't.

[Rustledjimm]

I can understand greater chance of conflict due to increased diversity however suggesting that a diverse nation must have armed police officers I think is a silly extreme.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Well if you're going to be discriminatory theres a large population of the world's low-median IQ who have aggressive religions and non-western ideals on temperance & tolerance that for purely logical reasons serve as a risk and are more likely to join existing criminal networks for economic gain if they are illegally residing here so its harder to pinpoint them until they're caught.

Members of Labour's recent plans to shut down our overcrowded deportation centres in foresight is a terrible idea and in the private firms who run it own words "would cause extreme harm to the public" because usual deportees are stuffed in there with the worst criminal migrant elements too. There's been coverage of it but its mostly been smothered out at this time for the Royal Wedding Mania where there is a huge concentration of armed police officers, snipers, bans on confetti and waving all sorts.

[XSI]

The armed officers would be a response to the increased tension and conflict that 'diversity' brings to a community

You don't technically need them, but we all know that only a small amount of people are willing to solve problems without violence

[FantasticFwoosh]

Obviously not the people involved who the guns have even had to be brought out to protect the public from.

[Malkevin]

Only armed police have tasers

[Lazengann]

The problem with cops having guns is that they have the shittiest job in the world and the stress that comes with it can lead to rash decisions. Their job consists of doing rude things to people like arresting them for weed followed by hiding in a corner like a dog who shit on the carpet so they can issue speeding tickets

[ThanatosRa]

This was a mistake.

[XSI]

I hope it's nice that new lootbox attempts are being looked at.

Sammiches thing looks like it's maybe been handled right but bacteria are never any fun especially for the elderly.

Entrapment? The article doesn't mention the website being run by the police. Also a little worried by how chrome translated that short article, given that it claimed they were looking to charge the man with carrying out a DDoS attack? Did he supposedly pay for it or did he supposedly perform it?

Sad about the exam jitters. Do you know if exams in the Netherlands are once a year or twice a year for students?

Lootboxes being looked at, no idea whats going on yet because its a leaked court document and not official rulings
Bacteria sandwiches were dealt with per standard procedure, really. Nothing of any real note to say on it
Website technically run by some form of law enforcement, but also technically not. Article doesn't really specify much about it, probably because the rest of the arrests are still incoming
Exams are once a year, and every year articles like it appear talking about it

And every year nothing special happens with it either, just exams

[Sometinyprick]

Only armed police have tasers

False, any police officer can train to use a taser in the UK.

Don't like the idea of an armed police force in an unarmed populace. Seems like it'll lead to slippery slopes down the line

Read up on how Fiona Bones and Nicola hughes died, read up how Kieth Palmer died and read up how the officers who where the first responders to the London terror attacks were injured and see if that changes your mind at all (they would be alive if routine arming was a thing), Germany, Italy and France routinely arm all their police officers and the amount of people police officers kill each year there is still remarkably low and similar to ours.I'll admit I'm incredibly biased on this subject but to me it's just something that needs to be done, the UK is not a special society.

I don't think I'd feel particularly safer with all or some of the police having guns. There are already police in airports and other concerned areas who carry MP5s. I assume that anyone who responds to some idiots are going to be very close to an armed response unit and not down in creamy Cornwall.

I'd probably ask for more police and a system that is less about rewarding if crime is recorded as on the up or down before I ask for guns since... I've never heard of it being useful and me poor old dad only knows of officers who have shot dead a person who shouldn't have been and unfortunately there's little to no support from the system in the face of when mistakes happen.

Did the officer who went against three knife wielding terrorists have their CS spray and taser?

He probably had his CS gas on him, the stuff is horrible but you can keep going through it and the taser is horribly ineffective because if you fuck it up and only hit one prong that guy is still gonna keep going. As for police killings in general? Italy has a fully armed police force and the amount of people they kill yearly is much much lower than ours.

Again I'm incredibly biased on this subject but within the Police itself there is a lot of support for routine armament just because of the situations they have to face, a police officer in the city may at some point be threatened with a knife or even (and it has happened more than you would think) an actual firearm, and when confronted with that situation they are unable to perform their duties properly, if they are lucky and nobody else is in danger of being hurt they can simply leave the situation (which is how they are currently trained) basically meaning if nobody else is at risk of getting hurt then you get the fuck out, if other people are at risk you have to deal with it and at any point when you deal with someone who has a knife and wants to hurt you well you are going to get stabbed and it's going to hurt a lot.

[Malkevin]

I wonder how many terrorists shoot up with substances like speed or PCP to resist CS/Tasers.

[Grazyn]

I think it's mostly a recruitment issue. If you recruit social rejects who only want the gun and the badge to feel the power they've never felt in their life so they can finally prove their worth to themselves, they're obviously going to crack like an egg under pressure and start spraying bullets everywhere. If you recruit honest, hardworking family men with solid fascist ethics, like we do in Italy, they're gonna be resolute in execution and gentle in manner, using violence and guns only when strictly necessary. Unless you're a junkie or a left-wing protester, in that case they're just gonna beat you to death or torture you for your degeneracy.

Also militarization of police doesn't mean anything to me, we have the Carabinieri who are literally a branch of the military which also doubles as a police force at home. So the guys who pull you over for a speeding ticket with fully automatic weapons may have been fighting in Afghanistan just the week before, but they still don't force you to keep your hands on the wheel and you don't feel afraid of catching a bullet for a wrong move.

[Malkevin]

Carabinieri's uniforms are boss.



Almost 1930's Boss.



I actually wanted the Sec uniforms changed to look like them but for some reason people were opposed to it, probably just because I suggested a Sec change.


I get the feeling these guys were the inspiration for the Judges from Judge Dredd.

[Grazyn]

This photo was taken a few months ago outside one of their barracks and it caused quite a stir at the time



apparently the Carabiniere who occupied the room was a fervent Prussian supporter.

Yeah their uniforms are pretty cool, but among them nothing beats the President's personal guard



with the emblem of the Republic emblazoned on the chest plate

[Grazyn]

this is how they look like when they make a traffic stop, notice the FULLY AUTOMATIC weapons

Spoiler:

and it doesn't matter whether you live in the sleepy countryside or not, you're gonna be pulled over at least a couple times a month or more depending on how much you drive, ID checked and usually breathalyzed as well depending on the time of day

[ColonicAcid]

Thats a gendarmie isn't it?

Because usually the heavily armed polices in Europe are military police aka gendarmies and you usually wont see metro police carrying fully automatics.

I know in Portugal the highway police are always the GNR and so everyone fucking hates them because of it.

[Grazyn]

Yes they are

[cedarbridge]

I wonder how many terrorists shoot up with substances like speed or PCP to resist CS/Tasers.

https://puu.sh/Ap931/fa9a7fde27.png

[Sometinyprick]

Carabinieri's uniforms are boss.



Almost 1930's Boss.



I actually wanted the Sec uniforms changed to look like them but for some reason people were opposed to it, probably just because I suggested a Sec change.


I get the feeling these guys were the inspiration for the Judges from Judge Dredd.

i want a cape now

[Malkevin]

I'm sure by the time by Markle has produced a future Kang she will have already been driven into a concrete barrier.

[Malkevin]

Probably so they can shoot at the farmer that's just blasted his shotty at a robber.

[XSI]

To be fair, rural means like wolves and bears and oh wait, it's an island and I'm pretty sure you've already killed all wolves and bears on there so I guess not

[Sometinyprick]

Actually,

but to me it's just something that needs to be done, the UK is not a special society.

We seem to be getting along fine. I might understand more for northern Ireland unless Britain is also famous for kneecapping. If it's first response bobby as being the problem for you then I imagine if they weren't patrolling alone they might have had a fairer fight, that and the counter terror units are supposed to be who responds, not a community bobby.

I don't know if I can find the original article but it was asking for rural police to be given guns, as if anywhere but a city will have a problem worth shooting at.

The homicide rate in Northern Ireland is the same as the (infact it's lower) homicide rate in England, the last time the PSNI shot anyone was in 2008 so their rate of police shootings is considerably lower than the UK. During the terror attacks four police responded, one on duty transport police officer, one off-duty met officer and two on-duty met officers, for the on-duty officers an extendable baton was not sufficient enough to stop the attackers. Their lack of equipment meant they were unable to stop people getting hurt and in general response based police officers are the most likely ones who will respond first and they have a duty to defend the public which is what those officers did.

To view them as community bobby's is a misunderstanding of what they do and what they deal with in general, you are thinking of PCSOs which do not have powers of arrest and mostly deal with community issues so normal PC's can deal with more serious issues.

I don't know if I can find the original article but it was asking for rural police to be given guns, as if anywhere but a city will have a problem worth shooting at.

It depends on the area of course but generally you are correct, PC's who work in cities are the ones who need firearms and many of them well tell you that a good example would be the guy from this interview

tl;dr if you don't want to watch a boring 30min video
21 year veteran details his experiences with being threatened with guns and knives and being unable to police effectively because he himself didn't have a firearm

[Takeguru]

I do believe that if your stated goal is to protect people, in a day and age where what they'll have to be protected from is armed, the officers pursuing that goal should be armed in turn

Now, this doesn't mean I'm advocating to give every british cop an assault rifle but probably the same most police around the world have

A vest, a handgun on their person and a shotgun in their patrol car if applicable

[DemonFiren]

and a couple of hand grenades, like completely ordinary cops are about to get in bavaria
because, you know, they need those in a country with absurdly strict gun laws

[Grazyn]

You thought it was gonna be the UK with Farage, but you were wrong

You thought it was gonna be the Netherlands with Wilders, but you were wrong

You thought it was gonna be France with Le Pen, and you were wrong once again

But today, at last, national populists have an EU country in their firm grasp: Italy. After nearly 3 months of post-election political gridlock, the unholy alliance between Lega (staunch far-right nationalists) and 5 Star Movement (rabid pitchfork-wielding populists) is complete. They settled their differences and are ready to form a government which will take hold in the next couple weeks.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Wilders is virtually possible but no coalition readily formed from the similar political structure to what happened in Italy, I personally think Italy is going to Itaexit too helping some of the eastern countries like Hungary and Poland who are already moderately right wing make up their mind.

Meanwhile Edrogan is preaching in Bosnia about something or another appealing to Turks all over Europe ominously, putting them at odds because he's a notable migrant enabler with nothing to lose by watching either his countrymen or neighbours pass over and benignly occupy Europe.

History repeating itself much? Shadow empire italy leaving the metaphorical HRE, rise of the Neo-Ottoman empire?

[Grazyn]

Shadow empire italy leaving the metaphorical HRE

Considering that Lega traces its political ideology back to the Lombard League which fought for independence from the HRE (they even have a legendary lombard knight from that war in their symbol), this is eerily accurate

[XSI]

Just let the EU collapse already
Every single time it does anything it's one tiny good thing in exchange for several buttfuckings by spiked dildos

Also Wilders is a joke

[Malkevin]

Wilders has no chin.