okay sir/madam/preferred pronoun, how would you like your mock meat done?

[ShadowDimentio]

Bottom post of the previous page:

22 Calibers of Gray

[onleavedontatme]

Why not?

Because only people have rights. Animals only have rights if we let them have rights.

Where do believe a humans rights are derived from?

[Anonmare]

I look forward the the day when munitions are sentient.

cant wait till its culturally acceptable to write a raunchy novel about a soldier who fell in love with his sentient heat seeking bullets.

No joke I actually read a short story set in Transhuman Space where a pilot unknowingly had cyber-sex with a smart missile in VR

[Qbopper]

As I said elsewhere, the amount of slack-jawed anime girl avatars, especially among the administration, is excessive even for a weeaboo board

you dont have to pretend its anything other than an excuse to look at tits

[ShadowDimentio]

Why not?

Because only people have rights. Animals only have rights if we let them have rights.

Where do believe a humans rights are derived from?

Society and governments enforcing them. Animals have neither of these.

[Anonmare]

As I said elsewhere, the amount of slack-jawed anime girl avatars, especially among the administration, is excessive even for a weeaboo board

you dont have to pretend its anything other than an excuse to look at tits

You make me uncomfortable

[onleavedontatme]

Why not?

Because only people have rights. Animals only have rights if we let them have rights.

Where do believe a humans rights are derived from?

Society and governments enforcing them. Animals have neither of these.

So we shouldnt petition the government to give animals rights because they dont have rights given by the government? A bit circular. Should humans in societies without rights not push for them?

Do you think morality is downstream from legality?

[The Clowns Pocket]

itt vegan sperging

[Doctor Pork]

Itt: kor responds with a question every time someone replies to him

[ColonicAcid]

yall ever eat ice cream and just go "how the fuck is this shit make it from wherever the fuck its made to my house and i can keep it ICE COLD for a long ass time.

like damn

[ManyBones]

I'm just a random guy but my vegan senses were tingling and now I'm here to join the cause of vegan shitposting. And I didn't read the entire thread beause fuck it, too long.

First thing, why the hell do you care so much about meat? Its about flavor?
Meat tastes like one of two things: greasy amorphous mass of bits from a corpse (aka burger) or dry thingy that tastes of nothing (aka chicken breast). About all the flavor of the meat comes from spices, and you can replicate that perfectly with vegetables. Vegan burguers are the best shit in the universe and making them is an art on itself, you can't compare minced corpses to that.

[Incomptinence]

I think I see your problem. When you were human you had your steak well done.

[Doctor Pork]

I'm just a random guy but my vegan senses were tingling and now I'm here to join the cause of vegan shitposting. And I didn't read the entire thread beause fuck it, too long.

First thing, why the hell do you care so much about meat? Its about flavor?
Meat tastes like one of two things: greasy amorphous mass of bits from a corpse (aka burger) or dry thingy that tastes of nothing (aka chicken breast). About all the flavor of the meat comes from spices, and you can replicate that perfectly with vegetables. Vegan burguers are the best shit in the universe and making them is an art on itself, you can't compare minced corpses to that.

bait

[ShadowDimentio]

I think I see your problem. When you were human you had your steak well done.

>When you were human

Jesus christ, brutal.

[onleavedontatme]

Not an argument

[bandit]

I think I see your problem. When you were human you had your steak well done.

>When you were human

Jesus christ, brutal.

yeah, everyone knows shadowdimentio was never human

[ManyBones]

bait

Ok, it was semi bait. But the question about why people are so attached to meat its a serious one. It's just a type of food, you can do a lot of tasty things with vegetables only. And since I became vegan I eat a lot better than when I ate standard diet, it has broadened my culinary scope, actually.

[Lazengann]

There are too many people, that's the real problem

[Stickymayhem]

Arm is a good boy and correct. If you care about animal suffering, chicken should be first on your list to go. It's also manufactured in the most disgusting way out of all the meats. The "raw chicken is poison" meme is not natural, it's a result of the most unsanitary horrifying industrial practices to prepare the meat you can imagine. They have successfully fought against regulating that atrocity to healthcare for decades.

Next on your list is pigs because they are both intelligent, and abused to shit since they have nearly no humane treatment rights at all, unlike cows, so they get abused about as frequently as chickens but with a greater capacity for suffering from it.

There are too many people, that's the real problem

We can feed like 10-15 billion max with our current diet

or 30-40 billion on plant-based diets

[Stickymayhem]

bait

Ok, it was semi bait. But the question about why people are so attached to meat its a serious one. It's just a type of food, you can do a lot of tasty things with vegetables only. And since I became vegan I eat a lot better than when I ate standard diet, it has broadened my culinary scope, actually.

It's fatty and salty and your microbiome is significantly different as a result, which gives you the meat cravings and demands more salt and fat. There's a reason hospitals buy vegan poop to kick-start people's microbiomes after antibiotics.

[DrPillzRedux]

we evolved eating fucking meat and veggies were a last resort for when you were fucking starving

this is why ketosis is a thing

prove me wrong

[Grazyn]

Bread has been a staple food since forever and it's plant-based

[DrPillzRedux]

The point of bread is that it's filling, but is basically just a lump of empty, shitty carbs with absolutely no nutritional value.

[Grazyn]

What about waybread?

[Stickymayhem]

we evolved eating fucking meat and veggies were a last resort for when you were fucking starving

this is why ketosis is a thing

prove me wrong

I can't prove you wrong without a time machine and neither can anyone else. We evolved eating plant-based, given our closest ancestors were frugivorous, but that's irrelevant.

Shit we did 10 000 years ago doesn't justify our behaviour today

Also ketosis is literally a mechanism for surviving starvation by efficiently burning fat reserves for energy. It happens when you keep carbohydrate intake low, which is what we're designed to use for our main source of energy (hint hint how many carbs are in a mammoth). Ketosis is not an evolutionary weight loss solution, it's only useful for that in our modern society where everyone is overweight and weight loss is itself desireable. I am not saying ketosis is bad for you, I am saying that it's use as a diet method is not an evolutionary adaptation, and it's only triggered by NOT EATING CARBS.

So ironically your mention of ketosis is pretty damning evidence against your own theory. Thanks for that lol.

[DrPillzRedux]

I switched to keto 4 months ago and the difference between living off of carbs and ketones is huge. Energy stays consistent throughout the day.

Also plants are not heavy in carbs at all, they barely have any. Even nuts barely have carbs. Plain meat has maybe 1g of carbs. So we evolved burning ketones.

Sticky btfo.

[Lazengann]

The current method of "use big gas guzzling tractors and on bigger and bigger fields" to feed everyone isn't sustainable forever with our current technology. Oil will dry up one day and soil erosion is a big problem. The diseases keep getting more resistant and one day we might not be able to stop them

[Incomptinence]

Ok, it was semi bait. But the question about why people are so attached to meat its a serious one. It's just a type of food, you can do a lot of tasty things with vegetables only. And since I became vegan I eat a lot better than when I ate standard diet, it has broadened my culinary scope, actually.

i fear no vegetal

[Lazengann]

Besides aren't the nutrients in meat and organs more bioavailable than what's found in plants

[ManyBones]

I switched to keto 4 months ago and the difference between living off of carbs and ketones is huge. Energy stays consistent throughout the day.

Also plants are not heavy in carbs at all, they barely have any. Even nuts barely have carbs. Plain meat has maybe 1g of carbs. So we evolved burning ketones.

Sticky btfo.

Don't go keto, ketone bodies strain your kidneys a lot. It lowers the ph of urine and that leads to hypercalciuria and uric acid does not dissolve on it, causing... Ta-da! kidney stones. And the kidney has to filter all of those ions, that wouid lead to kidney failure in the long term.

The point is that ketone acids are reserve energy only, they are not reliable as a long term main energy source nowadays, with the modern human living about 80 years compared to the 35 or less of the prehistoric homo sapiens.

i fear no vegetal

Because I feel bad about eating animals that died horribly.

The current method of "use big gas guzzling tractors and on bigger and bigger fields" to feed everyone isn't sustainable forever with our current technology. Oil will dry up one day and soil erosion is a big problem. The diseases keep getting more resistant and one day we might not be able to stop them

Transgenic crops.

[DrPillzRedux]

*citation needed

[Stickymayhem]

I switched to keto 4 months ago and the difference between living off of carbs and ketones is huge. Energy stays consistent throughout the day.

Also plants are not heavy in carbs at all, they barely have any. Even nuts barely have carbs. Plain meat has maybe 1g of carbs. So we evolved burning ketones.

Sticky btfo.

>Plants are not heavy in carbs

We're frugivores. Fruit are super heavy in carbs dumb dumb.

Also, once we began using agriculture, grains and starches were our main source of food all around the world. Don't pretend to be stupid.

Ketogenesis is not the usual state we should be in, it's literally a starvation diet which again, is fine if you want to lose weight, but it may not be sustainable, the long-term health risks are not fully known and it's clearly not the standard way our body is designed to be used.

Are you seriously suggesting that our ancestors were in a constant state of ketogenesis? The only way that is likely is that they literally did not have enough food to eat on a regular basis and frequently burned their fat reserves during times of famine.

[DemonFiren]

pillz is not human though

[Lazengann]

The ice age boys and the Inuit were(are??) probably in ketosis for their whole lives

[Stickymayhem]

The ice age boys and the Inuit were(are??) probably in ketosis for their whole lives

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/10/ ... -mwm-2-37/

That sounded interesting and I googled it and came across this super interesting article

Apparently they are actually less prone to ketosis

Obviously I literally just found it so don't take it at it's word but maybe do a little more research. I'm going to read into it because that genetic difference sounds fascinating

I did just find another paper from an actual biology journal that's nearly a hundred years old. This research is really neato: http://www.jbc.org/content/80/2/461.full.pdf

I would also add that just based on common sense, if your goal is a lean/muscular frame, inuits may not be the best reference considering their diet results in them storing a fair bit of, quite necessary in their environment, fat reserves.

Basically this whole inuit thing sounds like the exact kind of pseudoscience I see a lot on keto forums and such. Again, keto works for what it's used for, but it is not THE DIET that we should all be on, and it's not magic.

[Sometinyprick]

AI rights is an interesting debate we will have to deal with one day but it is off topic

in the next fifty or so years AIs will probably be deciding our rights

[Stickymayhem]

Yeah without us basically shackling them with zero mistakes or malicious intent ever the second AI achieve human level intelligence we're basically moments from the intellectual singularity and almost certain annihilation

[Doctor Pork]

So I started saving up money to follow my dreams. I'm gonna be a beekeeper and start a bee farm!

I also want to grow mushrooms but that's like a hobby thing.

[Stickymayhem]

So I started saving up money to follow my dreams. I'm gonna be a beekeeper and start a bee farm!

I also want to grow mushrooms but that's like a hobby thing.

Don't hurt the bees plees

Also don't be one of those dicks that drives them around to farms to pollinate them because it starves the local ecology and then the farms become reliant on the artificial hives

[Doctor Pork]

So I started saving up money to follow my dreams. I'm gonna be a beekeeper and start a bee farm!

I also want to grow mushrooms but that's like a hobby thing.

Don't hurt the bees plees

Also don't be one of those dicks that drives them around to farms to pollinate them because it starves the local ecology and then the farms become reliant on the artificial hives

I would never hurt the bees. Bees are good.

However I'm gonna do exactly those things you said and THEN sell my product at farmers markets in the city for lotsa dosh. Or at least that's what my plan is.

[ShadowDimentio]

On-delivery bees is a great idea if the area you're in has a lot of farms. Also send me some of your honey.

[ColonicAcid]

Migratory bee hives are essential for american agriculture due to the sheer size of the fields and the fact its all monoculture.

Bees aren't going to naturally settle in an orchard of almond trees that stretches for literal miles.

Its not that it starves local ecology its that there is no ecology on account of the fact its all the same plant and the farmers spray a metric ton of pesticide every year...

[Stickymayhem]

Honeybees are not the most efficient pollinating insect or even the most efficient pollinating bee. When you bring hordes of them to an area to pollinate monocultures it is an improvement over the actual local ecology sure, but as with most shit like this it's a short term gain at long term expense.

The diseases transferred all around the country wipe out local and even hive populations on a regular basis, and when the local ecology is utterly starved out by the bees farms become entirely reliant on those bees.

Good for bee business, bad for the ecosystem.

The better solution lies in GMO plants reducing the amount of pesticides we need so local fauna can flourish

[Stickymayhem]

*citation needed

>Nothing but anecdotal evidence
>LOL BTFO

>Basic logical reasons for why you're wrong

>Uhhh citation needed

Lizards really are trash

[Stickymayhem]

How do you still not understand the basic premise that the key is to stop breeding billions of extra animals we have to feed, confine and slaughter not kill everything.

The existing animals all die and get replaced in a few months. The "last" set will probably be killed for meat but no more will be bred and it's over.

Please stop strawmanning I can't even tell if you're actually too stupid to understand basic arguments at this point because you convert everything into a warped strawman

I never said animals have equal rights to a human. They suffer less so they are worth less. A human life is more important than a cows, but 15 minutes of pleasure on your tastebuds is not worth the life of an animal.

Realtalk get some therapy or something your worldview is kind of terrifying

[DemonFiren]

If you stopped singing praises of veganism as though it fixes everything and causes no ill, I'd stop being upset.

this tbh fam

[onleavedontatme]

Sticky keeps saying veganism isn't the magic elimination of harm but the moral imperative to reduce it when pragmatic.

Please stop shitposting in this thread or I will report you to the moderators

[Rustledjimm]

>15 pages


Ok that's it we're banning everyone in this thread who appears on every page.

[Rustledjimm]

After thorough review of each page the following people appeared on every single one bar this one:

Stickymayhem


Enjoy your ban

[Wyzack]

I eat meat but i get the impression that the people who are really upset about veganism don't like having to face the fact that the meat industry is awful and taking this frustration out on an easy target helps them forget.

Eat meat if you want but dont be a fucking hypocrite and screech about how vegans are worse than you for trying to do something against the systemic torture machine we all use to eat

[IkeTG]

everyone in this thread is a beautiful lady we do not need to fight anymore