okay sir/madam/preferred pronoun, how would you like your mock meat done?

[SpaceInaba]

Bottom post of the previous page:

memes aside if you properly manage your diet there is literally no health downsides to going vegan

[Lazengann]

Do the studies take into account that most meat eaters eat at mcdonalds and don't respect their health in the first place

[Armhulen]

What's the difference between vegans and vegetarians again I ALWAYS forget

[Lazengann]

Vegans won't drink milk or eat eggs

[onleavedontatme]

What's the difference between vegans and vegetarians again I ALWAYS forget

vegans wont eat eggs/cheese/milk or animals, vegetarians dont eat animals

[Stickymayhem]

Do the studies take into account that most meat eaters eat at mcdonalds and don't respect their health in the first place

There are reliable ways to eliminate variables like that in large datasets for the most part. You can control for other aspects of their diet.

also there are lab studies where the entire diet was carefully controlled and meat eaters had more cholesterol than vegetarians who had more than vegans in that study.

[CitrusGender]

Studies show that fuck you

Sources: Me

[Lazengann]

The big rumor nowadays that I heard from Joe Rogan and did no research about is that cholesterol isn't necessarily bad

[Stickymayhem]

What's the difference between vegans and vegetarians again I ALWAYS forget

vegetarianism is "I won't eat meat because I like animals". no offence to veggies, but it's kind of irrational given milk and dairy is as cruel if not more cruel than meat production


"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

Not just a diet, also cruelty free products, including no wool, leather or silk. No animal testing for cosmetics or (WHERE POSSIBLE DONT DIE FFS) medication

[Rustledjimm]

I like eggs.

[Stickymayhem]

The big rumor nowadays that I heard from Joe Rogan and did no research about is that cholesterol isn't necessarily bad

This is the argument I have the most.

Pro-Cholesterol studies almost always funded by the dairy or egg lobbies, use manipulation to deliberately not find any link between cholesterol and meat/egg/dairy diets

despite the fact we've known that in a perfectly controlled, and in real massive meta-analytic studies, cholesterol does go up, and it is bad for you.

There's good cholesterol and bad cholesterol. Your good cholesterol does not go up nearly as much as your bad when you eat meat eggs and dairy

I can dump out the studies if you insist because I've written this argument fifty times already and probably have the studies around somewhere

[IkeTG]

Not big on eggs and I'm lactose intolerant. Kinda hard to cook without eggs tho

[Rustledjimm]

I avoid lactose so yeah I don't eat or drink any animal milk but can't do without eggs tbh.

[Lazengann]

I don't think keeping backyard chickens in exchange for their eggs is really exploitation, same goes for bees and honey(unless they're taking too much honey from the hives and replacing it with sugar water which isn't good for the bees)

[SpaceInaba]

depends on what you're cooking, there are plenty of binding agents that work just as well from my experience

[Stickymayhem]

Not big on eggs and I'm lactose intolerant. Kinda hard to cook without eggs tho

bruh I got your back

fuck sorry that was big

Spoiler:

[IkeTG]

ooo flax seed forgot about that

[SpaceInaba]

this thread has made me realize I don't hate vegans at all I just like to argue with them because it's fun and neither side will have their opinion shifted

[SpaceInaba]

also vegans still eat fruit which is the only food that matters

[Lazengann]

I can dump out the studies if you insist because I've written this argument fifty times already and probably have the studies around somewhere

Nah I'll take your word for it as doing the proper work and seeing who funded it and comparing it to five other studies is diligence I'll leave to the smart guys like you

[Lazengann]

Fruit are just funny shaped candy bars

[Stickymayhem]

I don't think keeping backyard chickens in exchange for their eggs is really exploitation, same goes for bees and honey(unless they're taking too much honey from the hives and replacing it with sugar water which isn't good for the bees)

gonna try to keep it short

1. when you buy hens you're still supporting the death of all their brothers in grinders
2. we genetically modified and selectively bred hens to maximize egg production. in the wild they lay like 12 a year (or 40 tiny ones in some species) now they lay hundreds of big ones a year. they get ovarian cancer, osteoporosis, and egg-binding (it's really upsetting and painful) on a huge scale (like half of them will have bad problems because of the bodies we engineered to commodify them
3. the only way to stop this reliably is to give them hormones to stop their retardo overdrive reproductive system, therefore stopping egg production, making them pointless for your use anyway
4. eggs are bad for you, and just aren't worth this much effort and unethical behaviour, there are alternatives i posted above

[IkeTG]

also vegans still eat fruit which is the only food that matters

Now this is a big mood. I eat so many fruits. Nothing beats a good fresh strawberry salad

[Armhulen]

I can dump out the studies if you insist because I've written this argument fifty times already and probably have the studies around somewhere

Nah I'll take your word for it as doing the proper work and seeing who funded it and comparing it to five other studies is diligence I'll leave to the smart guys like you

Want to be an admin

[SpaceInaba]

I only use eggs for omelettes tbh
also cholesterol is scary honestly since it just compounds over time and then kills you

[Lazengann]

Sure

[Armhulen]

Sure

Ok I'll start training tonight

[Qbopper]

>posted today
>5 pages

what the fuck,,,

[BeeSting12]

yknow i can actually respect your dedication to this sticky. i hate animal cruelty too but i love meat too much to quit and i doubt my quitting will stop this animal torture. does that make me a bad person or anything

[SpaceInaba]

veganism who cares
meat eaters who cares
the real reason is because this is a food thread and EVERYBODY fucking eats food

[IkeTG]

>posted today
>5 pages

what the fuck,,,

We had a very good, very serious discussion and now I'm a vegan

[SpaceInaba]

unless you only subsist off soylent meals in a bottle which I would hope nobody here does

[Stickymayhem]

yknow i can actually respect your dedication to this sticky. i hate animal cruelty too but i love meat too much to quit and i doubt my quitting will stop this animal torture. does that make me a bad person or anything

I loved meat as much as anyone dude, all the fancy steaks and shit.

I would never go back. I did it overnight but that doesn't work for everyone, just try some alternatives, make a tofu fry up, try some of those meat alternatives. They're healthier anyway you're not losing anything by trying stuff

Every person does matter. The fact that everyone collectively thinks their decisions are meaningless is terribly sad.

You do make a difference:

http://thevegancalculator.com/

Every Year:

401, 500 gallons of water
14, 600 lbs of grain
10, 950 sq.ft of forest
7, 300 lbs of Co2
365 animal lives

I did that, just me. That's impact. That's more impact than almost any other life decision you make as a normal person can have.

[CitrusGender]

Fuck I'm on the bus so I can't shitpost with gigantic anime pictures anymore damn

[ShadowDimentio]

Meat is good, change my mind veganfags

[IkeTG]

I can't not think there are better causes to chase

Does focusing on one issue invalidate all others?

[Armhulen]

I really don't like the death of threads that are more than blank posts with three letters in the title

This thread is great let's have more of these even if you hate sticky

[Lazengann]

Whether we're producing food ethically and sustainably is among the most important issues considering everybody eats and its something that you can actually change unlike most political topics

Sticky makes some great points but I still think there are ways to harvest animal products ethically even if it's by milking sheep instead of cows. I'm coming into the issue with a massive bias admittedly because my athletic goals require me to eat a ton of protein and I'm not remotely wealthy.

[Armhulen]

No wait, you used dude unironically, you're irredeemable.

I call people dude all the time, what's wrong with that?

I'm angry at Sticky. You call people dude whenever you want. I unironically consider neckbeards, thick rim glasses, dyed hair, dude, and the usage of like, like, totally, dude, to all be warning flags but don't worry because I'm only losing out if I decide to avoid you because of that.

Make uppppp

[IkeTG]

I'm angry at Sticky. You call people dude whenever you want. I unironically consider neckbeards, thick rim glasses, dyed hair, dude, and the usage of like, like, totally, dude, to all be warning flags but don't worry because I'm only losing out if I decide to avoid you because of that.

Methinks you need to cool your jets man, this isn't the time and place to get all bent outta shape.

[IkeTG]

I don't know about you, but I find it largely disingenuous to argue there's more pressing matters at hand to undermine someone's argument. There are other issues like inadequacies of modern politics, but they're largely irrelevant to the topic at hand. It's not great to move the goalposts like that.

[Stickymayhem]

>it hurts my eyes but not my stomach

this is kind of embarrassing to be honest

I'll reply to your megapost but it'll take a couple weeks hang tight

[Doctor Pork]

Grass fed meat is ethical

Tfw you have to fill out paperwork and wait for permission from your town to keep sheep behind your house

>be cow
>born, torn from mother kicking and screaming
>get genitals clipped off without anasthetic
>get horns burned out of head
>get branded/tagged
>oh sweet grass
>nom for 1/5th of actual lifespan
>the truck shows up
>where are we going
>it's cold/hot/wet/noisy/awful why aren't they feeding me
>ow stop shocking me
>why does everything smell like blood oh god I can hear my bois screaming
>forced down kill chute
>if lucky, be stunned by the bolt gun before throat is slit
>if ~30%, be boltgunned in the head multiple times
>if ~10%, don't get properly stunned at all, die slowly bleeding out as they cut legs off and skin alive
>be cut into pieces by minimum wage workers who get constantly injured, often immigrants
>sent to the butchers
>packaging: "organic" "grass fed" "locally farmed" "ethical"
>mfw i have no face because you ate it

but thats wrong

Edit: want to clarify by "wrong" i mean factually not ethically

[Armhulen]

Grass fed meat is ethical

Tfw you have to fill out paperwork and wait for permission from your town to keep sheep behind your house

>be cow
>born, torn from mother kicking and screaming
>get genitals clipped off without anasthetic
>get horns burned out of head
>get branded/tagged
>oh sweet grass
>nom for 1/5th of actual lifespan
>the truck shows up
>where are we going
>it's cold/hot/wet/noisy/awful why aren't they feeding me
>ow stop shocking me
>why does everything smell like blood oh god I can hear my bois screaming
>forced down kill chute
>if lucky, be stunned by the bolt gun before throat is slit
>if ~30%, be boltgunned in the head multiple times
>if ~10%, don't get properly stunned at all, die slowly bleeding out as they cut legs off and skin alive
>be cut into pieces by minimum wage workers who get constantly injured, often immigrants
>sent to the butchers
>packaging: "organic" "grass fed" "locally farmed" "ethical"
>mfw i have no face because you ate it

but thats wrong

You're not doctor beef

[Stickymayhem]

We have, for a great time, relied upon animals for food

Our diet has evolved to include meat

This is a huge post so I will be using "Appeal to Nature/Tradition" as shorthand for this faulty justification: Just because something is natural/traditional does not justify it.

[*]Our cultural diets have been refined over a great deal of time to indulge in foods that aren't killing us, the last ~500 years of sugar aren't included, you can look at which parts of the world don't have lactose intolerant populations

These foods are killing us. We can tolerate small amounts of these foods just like anything bad for us, but the way we eat this stuff today (Meat 2-3 times a day instead of 2-3 times a week if that) is absolutely killing us. Red meat and processed meat is carcinogenic, high fat/cholesterol foods like meats are causing strokes, heart disease and obesity.

Meat provides proteins that help in our development & maintenance, we even get vital vitamins from animals & animal products, e.g. eggs are a great source of some of your B vitamins amongst other things, it is also a good source for large amounts of energy

We get one vital vitamin from animal products you can't get elsewhere: B12. The B12 you get in your animal products is 1. Likely to be insufficient, non-vegans are just as likely to be deficient 2. Is supplemented into the animals diet, so you can take a pill, or put the pill in an animal, kill the animal and eat the animal for the same benefit.

Everything else can be replaced by plant foods, especially protein, which is hugely abundant in MOST foods. Protein deficiency is effectively impossible unless you are literally starving to death.

Animals for meat or for product, be it food or material, take larger amounts of land to feed, I assume, than plant diets, e.g. the rolling green hills of England are as such due to sheep and would otherwise be ancient forests if we pretend land wouldn't have been touched by the industrial revolution, I'm uncertain of plant growth in the black country when it got its name

Yes. Common sense and basic energy transfer in biology (You lose about 90% of the energy at each stage in the chain) shows that meat production is inefficient. This makes it environmentally irresponsible when we are already destroying the planet and people are starving unable to afford basics. The point is not the land the sheep are on, but the land being used to feed them instead of humans. Those rolling hills mean nothing compared to the much larger land mass of crops supporting that flock of sheep for several months.

What I understand of veganism:

• Refuses to eat meat or animal products on a variety of grounds, rearing animals for material product is up in the air

Incorrect: "Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

This is the official, and only definition of true veganism. A vegan diet is not necessarily veganism. Veganism is a lifestyle and political movement, and has been since it's conception.

[Doctor Pork]

Grass fed meat is ethical

Tfw you have to fill out paperwork and wait for permission from your town to keep sheep behind your house

>be cow
>born, torn from mother kicking and screaming
>get genitals clipped off without anasthetic
>get horns burned out of head
>get branded/tagged
>oh sweet grass
>nom for 1/5th of actual lifespan
>the truck shows up
>where are we going
>it's cold/hot/wet/noisy/awful why aren't they feeding me
>ow stop shocking me
>why does everything smell like blood oh god I can hear my bois screaming
>forced down kill chute
>if lucky, be stunned by the bolt gun before throat is slit
>if ~30%, be boltgunned in the head multiple times
>if ~10%, don't get properly stunned at all, die slowly bleeding out as they cut legs off and skin alive
>be cut into pieces by minimum wage workers who get constantly injured, often immigrants
>sent to the butchers
>packaging: "organic" "grass fed" "locally farmed" "ethical"
>mfw i have no face because you ate it

but thats wrong

You're not doctor beef

no but beef is my job/career and that is wholly incorrect

but hey buy less beef if you want, fewer saturdays i have to work this summer

edit: my "/" button a shit

[CitrusGender]

lol this thread holy fuck

[Rustledjimm]

WAKE ME UP INSIDE

[Rustledjimm]

WAKE ME UP INSIDE

CALL MY NAME AND SAVE ME FROM THE DARK

[onleavedontatme]

>you should eat more vegetables as a way to improve the world with a low impact on your own life
>oh yeah well why arent you willing to give up your freedom and get beaten/raped in a cage to end all wars and bad things ever?

not an argument

[Doctor Pork]

i just want to put out there i dont care what people eat but misinformation really tussles my tail feathers

edit: maybe sometime tonight i wont have to fix my own post after i post it who knows its a mystery