2k17 /pol/

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:50 am #347156

Bottom post of the previous page:

You guys (cosmic especially) need to start putting tl/dr on your posts

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:00 am #347160

ShadowDimentio wrote:
Drynwyn wrote:It would be fair to say, of course, that a large number of Antifa members support the overthrow of the US government- but I don't think it's fair to claim that about the movement as a whole.
It's still an organization that a military officer has no business being anywhere near.

I made, and continue to make, no statements about that.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:05 am #347161

Drynwyn wrote:
ShadowDimentio wrote:
Drynwyn wrote:It would be fair to say, of course, that a large number of Antifa members support the overthrow of the US government- but I don't think it's fair to claim that about the movement as a whole.
It's still an organization that a military officer has no business being anywhere near.
I made, and continue to make, no statements about that.

No, instead you're defending position based on arbitrary criteria for what can and cannot define a group position.

Super Aggro Crag · Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:27 am

Its pretty amazing how much you can get away with if you just label anyone you target a bad guy

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:47 am #347223

cedarbridge wrote:
Drynwyn wrote:
ShadowDimentio wrote:
Drynwyn wrote:It would be fair to say, of course, that a large number of Antifa members support the overthrow of the US government- but I don't think it's fair to claim that about the movement as a whole.
It's still an organization that a military officer has no business being anywhere near.
I made, and continue to make, no statements about that.
No, instead you're defending position based on arbitrary criteria for what can and cannot define a group position.

I fail to see how the criteria you have proposed are any less arbitrary. Or rather, not proposed, as you've said that Antifa is X but have not defined any basis upon which you might make that claim.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:15 am #347228

Drynwyn wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
Drynwyn wrote:
ShadowDimentio wrote:
Drynwyn wrote:It would be fair to say, of course, that a large number of Antifa members support the overthrow of the US government- but I don't think it's fair to claim that about the movement as a whole.
It's still an organization that a military officer has no business being anywhere near.
I made, and continue to make, no statements about that.
No, instead you're defending position based on arbitrary criteria for what can and cannot define a group position.
I fail to see how the criteria you have proposed are any less arbitrary. Or rather, not proposed, as you've said that Antifa is X but have not defined any basis upon which you might make that claim.

I mean, I can see how you might think that was an argument that proved your position tenable if we lived in some sort of weird zero-sum world made of sophistry where my lack of detail regarding my definitions criteria removed your own position's need for justification. If I were to suggest an equally arbitrary criterion, both would be similarly useless. Wherein you admit or at least choose not to refute that your criterion is arbitrary we can then accept that it does no good in allowing us to frame group-held positions. You do this after, with a straight face, asserting that approximately 60% of German Bolshevik (Antifa) party members were communist because reasons I guess? What we've been trying to get to you is, when you attempt to reduce group action and group motive to a series of individual characteristics where the exception disproves the rule, you have a case where group action or group intention cannot exist because 1) the supposed leader is disputed by a member of the group and therefore his choices, positions, actions do not represent the whole and cannot be ascribed to the whole vis a vis your framework. 2) literally every member of a group will be different by definition even in a case where each member of the group were a carbon copy clone of the one before it. This is because groups are composed of humans. If the assumption is t define group agency and group intention then you've set up a rubric where the group cannot act because each group is really a collective of microgroups equal to the number of members plus any interrelationary associations between said microgroups.

Are we done playing sophomore philosophy yet? This whole conversation has boiled down to sophistry, wordplay and framing without a point or purpose.

Screemonster · Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:27 am

because not every nazi personally gassed a jew it's not fair to say the nazis gassed jews amirite

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:42 am #347259

welcome to politics

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:14 am #347280

that's literally what putin's government is though

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:20 pm #347311

A) I would be quite willing to argue a position that people have to be judged as individuals, not as members of groups. In the abstract, at least, that seems totally tenable!

B) I've not said that a disputed leader isn't a leader, but I don't think you can even point to a disputed leader of Antifa- I certainly could not if pressed.

C) You're accusing of sophistry, basically, for disagreeing with the statement "Antifa is communist" and discussing what it means to assign attributes to groups- but that's an important discussion, especially if we're going to claim a warrant for action on the basis of that claim.

I'm all ears if you want to present an argument for why Antifa is communist, or alternatively, why them being largely communist is sufficient for your case (whatever that may be).

ShadowDimentio · Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:31 pm

Because just because some people in a group aren't bad, when a fair chunk of them are it reflects poorly on the group as a whole, and there's no reason to not condemn a group based on the actions of the people in it.

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:52 pm #347334

I mean

Antifa has historically been the violent branch of the communist party in several european countries
Doesn't mean they still are today, but it is their roots and reasonable to assume that they might still be

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:29 pm #347366

ShadowDimentio wrote:Because just because some people in a group aren't bad, when a fair chunk of them are it reflects poorly on the group as a whole, and there's no reason to not condemn a group based on the actions of the people in it.

If that is the case, I could reasonably condemn: Democrats, Republicans, /tg/ station admins, career politicians, people with a net worth in excess of 500 million, police officers, Antifa, black people, white people, asian people, and quite possibly the human race in general, depending on what you define to be "a fair chunk."

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:34 pm #347368

>Implying Humanity is real
>Implying that any of you are real
>Implying that I'm not the only person who really exists and isn't a mindless automaton who acts like it exists
Step it up

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:39 pm #347387

Anonmare wrote:>Implying Humanity is real
>Implying that any of you are real
>Implying that I'm not the only person who really exists and isn't a mindless automaton who acts like it exists
Step it up

>implying that you yourself know you exist
your consciousness could be illusory

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:55 pm #347395

In order to even consider that I don't myself exist, I have to be able to exist in order to refute my own existence

calzilla1 · Post by **calzilla1** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:57 pm #347397

Shoo shoo solipsism jew!

ShadowDimentio · Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:21 pm

Drynwyn wrote:
ShadowDimentio wrote:Because just because some people in a group aren't bad, when a fair chunk of them are it reflects poorly on the group as a whole, and there's no reason to not condemn a group based on the actions of the people in it.
If that is the case, I could reasonably condemn: Democrats, Republicans, /tg/ station admins, career politicians, people with a net worth in excess of 500 million, police officers, Antifa, black people, white people, asian people, and quite possibly the human race in general, depending on what you define to be "a fair chunk."

Most of those groups aren't groups though

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:58 pm #347423

Drynwyn is correct down with the human race we are objectively awful

ShadowDimentio · Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:12 pm

Shut your mouth before I genocide you, boy

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:35 am #347497

Anonmare wrote:In order to even consider that I don't myself exist, I have to be able to exist in order to refute my own existence

All you know for sure is that SOMETHING exists, you can't say for sure it's you!

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:08 am #347503

Drynwyn wrote:
Anonmare wrote:In order to even consider that I don't myself exist, I have to be able to exist in order to refute my own existence
All you know for sure is that SOMETHING exists, you can't say for sure it's you!

Descartes was a moron.

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:23 am #347507

cedarbridge wrote:
Drynwyn wrote:
Anonmare wrote:In order to even consider that I don't myself exist, I have to be able to exist in order to refute my own existence
All you know for sure is that SOMETHING exists, you can't say for sure it's you!
Descartes was a moron.

Descartes was like Plato- he was a very clever person who's notability is only slightly diminished by the fact that he was wrong about everything!

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:34 am #347529

philosophy doesn't really work that way, though

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:19 am #347549

Catalonia independence won't turn into actual armed conflict. Kurdistan independence almost certainly will.

captain sawrge · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:48 am

Super Aggro Crag wrote:Its pretty amazing how much you can get away with if you just label anyone you target a bad guy

The government does it all the time. Which group is un-American now bitches

captain sawrge · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:54 am

Antifa is right on the fact that the 1% should be dragged into the street and have their brains insanely caved in with large heavy objects and if you disagree you are absolutely part of the JIDF

calzilla1 · Post by **calzilla1** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:52 pm #347562

captain sawrge wrote:Antifa is right on the fact that all non-whites should be dragged into the street and have their brains insanely caved in with large heavy objects and if you disagree you are absolutely part of the JIDF

Fixed

Super Aggro Crag · Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:42 pm

We really need someone to invent a zombification gas so we can fucking beat and shoot people to death in the streets with no contentious political motivation behind it because killing zombies is more socially acceptable than killing loving peeps

Itd get a lot of aggression out

captain sawrge · Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:44 pm

Super Aggro Crag wrote:We really need someone to invent a zombification gas so we can fucking beat and shoot people to death in the streets with no contentious political motivation behind it because killing zombies is more socially acceptable than killing loving peeps

Itd get a lot of aggression out

Once your net worth breaches a billion you stop feeling love and human emotions anyway

Super Aggro Crag · Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:51 pm

Yeah but there's not enough billionaires to give everyone a chance to smash a humanoid being's fucking brains out sawrge

Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:17 pm

state troopers coming in

ShadowDimentio · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:24 pm

Go watch it in person

If the cops are actually doing their jobs and keeping the peace you'll be safe and sound.

ColonicAcid · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:24 pm

remember if a riot does happen the police wont care about your political standings

youre going to get beat up regardless.

lntigracy · Post by **lntigracy** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:30 pm #347728

If a riot happens, find the nearest officer and hold your hands in the air as you ask for help.

ColonicAcid · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:33 pm

remember when a riot happens to shout out your deepest most controversial political opinions to the nearest officer.

bonus points if they're race related

cedarbridge · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:50 pm

Realtalk. If a riot starts you run towards the largest concentration of friendship windmills and you pray you outrun the commies.

ColonicAcid · Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:03 am

feds

even tho we dont have a federal government that is still the name for POLAICE

Super Aggro Crag · Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:10 am

BLEASCHMHNMN

[youtube]EIEUEqYwIdY[/youtube]

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:54 am #347776

I like "Pigs" myself

Short simple and to the point

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:36 pm #347828

lntigracy wrote:If a riot happens, find the nearest officer and hold your hands in the air as you ask for help.

No this will you look big and threatening

Keep your hands behind your back so they can cuff you easier

lntigracy · Post by **lntigracy** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:46 pm #347832

Malkevin wrote:
lntigracy wrote:If a riot happens, find the nearest officer and hold your hands in the air as you ask for help.
No this will you look big and threatening

Keep your hands behind your back so they can cuff you easier

No this will make you look small and shifty.

Keep your hands on the gun pressed to your temple so they can shoot you easier.

captain sawrge · Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:58 pm

This may be controversial but I do not think there is a whole lot the white supremacist man could say to culturally or intellectually enrich you

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:52 pm #347906

sneed

captain sawrge · Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:56 pm

ch uck

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:08 pm #347939

Any viewpoint is worth listening to

After that you may proceed to ridicule, disgust, or any negative emotion if you want. But at least you'll have heard their side of it. Even if it turns out to be provably untrue and retarded (Like Egyptians being black)

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:14 pm #347941

Every viewpoint is worth listening to

Not every viewpoint is worth risking your life just for listening to it

Seriously, don't place yourself in harm's way if you can avoid it.

ShadowDimentio · Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:23 pm

XSI wrote:(Like Egyptians being black)

WE

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:24 pm #347946

Grazyn wrote:Every viewpoint is worth listening to

Not every viewpoint is worth risking your life just for listening to it

Seriously, don't place yourself in harm's way if you can avoid it.

If a bunch of LARPing commies is enough to make you fear for your life, its time to reevaluate your life.

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:31 pm #347949

If you are worried for your health, safety, or life, you can also just watch the thing on youtube.
That said, antifa is notoriously weak and cowardly. I'd not be afraid of them

onleavedontatme · Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:49 pm

cedarbridge wrote:
Grazyn wrote:Every viewpoint is worth listening to

Not every viewpoint is worth risking your life just for listening to it

Seriously, don't place yourself in harm's way if you can avoid it.
If a bunch of LARPing commies is enough to make you fear for your life, its time to reevaluate your life.

Last time larping commies fought larping nazis a car plowed into a crowd and a guy fired his handgun at someone with a flamethrower.

Not to mention the possibility of getting dragged through the court system if you wind up in a fight.

It's completely rational to see something the national guard was called out for as a risk worth avoiding.