akesson - ausops - rule 0

[Slignerd]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Thank you for giving your testimony and getting your voice out there Floyd and Sligneris. I appreciate the support and I hope the truth can be found in this chaos.

To anyone that would like to offer their humble opinion and support to help me on this appeal, your voice will be heard and it does count!

I'm mostly neutral on this matter, actually.

[cedarbridge]

Didn't Ausops get reelected anyway? Doesn't that still mean it's up to him? On top of that

Rule 0 bans appeals involve headmins and sometimes host.
Rule 0 headmin ban appeals require all parties present.

Requires a 2 majority vote to ban, with host vote worth 1.1 meaning if it's Host and Headmin vs 2 headmins, Host and headmin vote wins.
Edit: footnote, abstain votes default to host vote side. This occurred during my Judicator rule 0 ban if I recall.

Requires a 3 vote majority to prevent host vote (unless host order is executed).

Why are you inventing policy?

[onleavedontatme]

He is not inventing policy though, it was just a really drawn out way to say headmins vote on things if there is disagreement and MSO very ocassionally steps in (usually when we request it).

Bans happen to be one of the things headmins sometimes are called to make decisions on.

[iamgoofball]

question:

if we want to talk to a headmin should we make a forum thread for it?

because PMs/IRC/Discord are a no-go with the precedent set with this appeal denial

[feem]

You need to talk to ADMINS via logged communications about ban appeals, primarily the forums or the game itself. This is for the sanity of the headmins (being able to keep track of their admins), for the protection of the admins (so that what players say to them can be logged), and for the protection of the players (so that what admins say to them can be logged).

HEADMINS can be talked to in a number of different ways, but they GENERALLY provide rulings via the forums or the game itself.

If you make a claim on the forums that a headmin said something outside of the game, the headmin will answer for that and it behooves you to have some kind of log that it's occurred, especially if, short of that headmin statement outside of the game, you would otherwise be breaking the rules for your appeal, such as is currently the case.

I apologize if you got the impression from this that you weren't allowed to talk to headmins.

tl;dr: accountability helps EVERYONE and out-of-band (i.e. private or out-of-game) conversations should GENERALLY be limited to things which would otherwise be incriminating or which involve sensitive or potentially destructive issues (e.g. stalking, severe security flaws and exploits, et al -- things that have wide or catastrophic impact if not handled with discretion)

tl;dr2: The outcomes of and statements made within specific situations do not always result in wide-ranging and universal truths or precedents; often they're limited to the outcomes of that specific situation and are related to the mitigating or specific circumstances of that situation.

[J_Madison]

I don't think their support will change a lot. It sounds a lot like you still don't understand why you got banned in the first place and you keep acting like it's unfair, undeserved. You didn't even consider to be wrong, did you?

I asked myself what could I have done wrong?

Was I a bad player ICly? No.
Was I a detriment to development? Definitely not.


I felt that I was banned wrongly, so I appealed it on the spot.
And then I was banned for it.

What did I do to deserve "detriment to community" despite my contribution and support to the server?

You can only have feem's "high-administrative-overhead low-positive-contribution" paradox because some admins have been focusing unnecessary attention and resources on this ban.

[Nilons]

I don't think their support will change a lot. It sounds a lot like you still don't understand why you got banned in the first place and you keep acting like it's unfair, undeserved. You didn't even consider to be wrong, did you?

I asked myself what could I have done wrong?

Was I a bad player ICly? No.
Was I a detriment to development? Definitely not.


I felt that I was banned wrongly, so I appealed it on the spot.
And then I was banned for it.

What did I do to deserve "detriment to community" despite my contribution and support to the server?

You can only have feem's "high-administrative-overhead low-positive-contribution" paradox because some admins have been focusing unnecessary attention and resources on this ban.

You're either gonna have to admit that you're at fault and are not being targeted or likely face similar response when you appeal next time.

Can't speak to whether you were banned justly but at some point you've got to learn when to concede if you wanna play on this server, at least that's the vibe I'm getting from the responses in this thread.

[J_Madison]

You're either gonna have to admit that you're at fault and are not being targeted or likely face similar response when you appeal next time.

Can't speak to whether you were banned justly but at some point you've got to learn when to concede if you wanna play on this server, at least that's the vibe I'm getting from the responses in this thread.

Yeah I know. I admit I'm pretentious and I put myself above others. I'm difficult to deal with and I dislike dealing with several admins.

The previous admins have spoiled me. The times have changed and I gotta get out of the new one.

In situations like this, it infuriates me the passive aggressive peanut gallery that occurs and dealing with it in supportbus results in NikNakFlak kicking me from the server.

[captain sawrge]

I don't really understand why the kicks from supportbus when discussing bans on it is like one of its main purposes

[NikNakFlak]

Because spewing the autism he was spewing is not discussing bans

[Qbmax32]

tbh if he's not willing to recognize why he was banned in the first place he shouldn't appeal until he does

[J_Madison]

Because spewing the autism he was spewing is not discussing bans

<feem> that isn't even my conversation or conceit in the conversation
<J_Madison> Alright. Let's talk something different from the ban, do you have some time to talk about that?
<feem> no
<J_Madison> Very well. Let me know when you do.
<feem> what do you want

[bandit]

The question of timing is really an afterthought here. Your Rule 0 was placed in part because of excessive rules-lawyering of every point. To get the Rule 0 lifted, you should demonstrate that your attitude has changed. Instead, this thread is more excessive rules-lawyering of every point.

[Armhulen]

At the very least I can say that this appeal is too early. Sorry I set you up for failure.

[J_Madison]

The question of timing is really an afterthought here. Your Rule 0 was placed in part because of excessive rules-lawyering of every point. To get the Rule 0 lifted, you should demonstrate that your attitude has changed. Instead, this thread is more excessive rules-lawyering of every point.

I know. I feel as if I've been unnecessarily baited into fighting tooth and nail for every point.

Compared to my later responses on this thread, my early responses were short and simple and was not lawyering.

But everything I said was challenged by admins and players who were not headmins or involved.

This is fine - Anon3 amendment.


But I felt that I was required to explain and defend everything. Ultimately they don't decide it, and I shouldn't have had to answer.

[Hathkar]

J_Mad, I don't know you, probably haven't even played with you. But from reading quite a few of your posts and that log you posted, you clearly are still incapable of admitting you have done anything wrong or that your attitude has changed at all. The fact that you're trying to rules lawyer every single thing you possibly can instead of just admitting ANY fault is pretty damning.

This doesn't need to be an agonizing and long appeal. State how you've changed, acknowledge the reason you got banned in the first place, admit your faults, maybe get some recommendations from other servers to vouch for your changed/good behavior.

But judging by this thread and your past posts, you don't do any of the above.

[J_Madison]

J_Mad, I don't know you, probably haven't even played with you. But from reading quite a few of your posts and that log you posted, you clearly are still incapable of admitting you have done anything wrong or that your attitude has changed at all. The fact that you're trying to rules lawyer every single thing you possibly can instead of just admitting ANY fault is pretty damning.

This doesn't need to be an agonizing and long appeal. State how you've changed, acknowledge the reason you got banned in the first place, admit your faults, maybe get some recommendations from other servers to vouch for your changed/good behavior.

But judging by this thread and your past posts, you don't do any of the above.

Floyd/Qustinnus is the FTL headmin.

I can't comment on any of the above.
I've apologised and resolved my previous security issues with my victims.
I've tried to avoid rule lawyering and answer using as few words as possible, but the open nature of this ban appeal requires me to explain and get into detail with a lot of things, ergo; rule lawyer.

Any proof that I have changed requires good faith. I am not devulging into private details of why I'm not a detriment to the community because they are incriminating or which involve sensitive or potentially destructive issues.

[Cobby]

If 2/3 headmins have said it's too early then why is the appeal not resolved yet?

[Armhulen]

If 2/3 headmins have said it's too early then why is the appeal not resolved yet?

You make a great point there cobby, please appeal after some good time has passed but as far as i'm concerned this is denied